Not City, good.
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He's a top signing.
But in a weird way, I'm just not convinced he makes Arsenal that much better if it's a him or Partey situation.
The move makes a lot of sense for all parties, West Ham make a shit ton of money, Arsenal get their hands on one of the best in the position in the league, Rice gets to play at a higher level without a major location move to Manchester/Liverpool/abroad.
But in a weird way, I'm just not convinced he makes Arsenal that much better if it's a him or Partey situation.
The move makes a lot of sense for all parties, West Ham make a shit ton of money, Arsenal get their hands on one of the best in the position in the league, Rice gets to play at a higher level without a major location move to Manchester/Liverpool/abroad.
Who?
How can you be spending as much as us, when we're twice as big commercially and your lot finished 8th and 6th?
FFP!
Not convinced he’ll be as transformative as people think. Be really interesting to watch Arsenal this season, see if they can push on.
He really won’t. He’s a good player but criminally overrated by many as well.
And none of those 3 mentioned are attainable. Casemiro was cheaper because of age. 3-4 yrs younger Casemiro was almost impossible to get from Madrid.
As the years go by and transfer fees keep on increasing this might turn out to be decent if not good piece of business. And for Arsenal fans its refreshing that for once we get our priority target without caring about value which we are generally stuck at.
We had almost half the wage bill
210m vs 380m
Transfer spend is not a good indicator. Ideal is Wages + Amortization for a year.
What, kinda like us and Maguire?
I think he’ll transform them massively. He’s choice number 41 again, what’s the reason for that? I think he has said before why he likes it.
He hasn’t shown any kind of quality for 18 months now.
I think fans are talking themselves into rating Rice rather than seeing what he is as a player.
For all of the 100m hype, he is a West Ham player making a huge step up.
He’s a really good player and, ignoring the fee for one second, is a great signing for Arsenal.
He raises the bottom level in that midfield hugely.
He raises the bottom level in that midfield hugely.
Good player but a number of times I watch him and feel he’s a CB masquerading as a DM.
He’s even woeful since the second half of last year. West Ham as a whole have been terrible but Rice played his part in those performances. Losing midfield battles week after week
So he goes to a London based club then which was clearly a big factor for him.
He'll do well at Arsenal. They have the creativity in other areas but need someone solid in the middle and Rice is perfect for that.
I don't think he's what we need because of that lack of creativity and £105 million is way too much.
He'll do well at Arsenal. They have the creativity in other areas but need someone solid in the middle and Rice is perfect for that.
I don't think he's what we need because of that lack of creativity and £105 million is way too much.
Warmed up to this transfer. I baulked at the transfer fee initially but we are getting a decent deal here potentially.
At worst we are getting a 60-65 million player and we will have overpaid 40 mil. Unfortunately, it is really easy to waste 40 mil nowadays. Fabio Vieira cost us 35 and up to now I have to admit that's a full dud. Declan is a very good player...is he world class which this fee suggests? Not yet, but given the right environment, he may well be one day I think.
Now if I can get myself to feel better about the Havertz transfer...
At worst we are getting a 60-65 million player and we will have overpaid 40 mil. Unfortunately, it is really easy to waste 40 mil nowadays. Fabio Vieira cost us 35 and up to now I have to admit that's a full dud. Declan is a very good player...is he world class which this fee suggests? Not yet, but given the right environment, he may well be one day I think.
Now if I can get myself to feel better about the Havertz transfer...
https://www.givemesport.com/expert-...-continue-to-spend-big-without-breaching-ffp/
Seems answer is mainly due to much lower wage bill than other clubs.
I love that the predictions range from ‘transformative player that will take Arsenal to new heights’ to ‘West Ham level player not nearly worth his fee’.
I expect the truth will be somewhere in between, but I’ll never underestimate the overrating of English players.
I expect the truth will be somewhere in between, but I’ll never underestimate the overrating of English players.
This just isn’t true in the slightest.
Crazy fee, 50m of English tax? A good reason why City didn't want to pay so much I think.
they put a bid in not far off from the final fee
Brozovic, Tonali, camavinga (obviously doesn't play DM that often but his performances there have been great, Caicedo, Busquets, Verratti, Fabinho, Lobotka. That was just a quick think.
They matched what arsenal got rejected, they like to put pressure on transfers.
Think he's the right type of signing despite the risk. As long as Arsenal is rebuilding, chances are at least 50% of their signings will pay off, to give City somekind of fight, till late stage. Rice in form or not can sustain physical pressure of full season in PL without a bigger fuss, certainly better than Partey and Xhaka combined.
One thing you can be sure on Redcafe, in 2 years: 'Why didn't we go for Rice and Caicedo, when our midfield is older than Zlatan.'
Like how Maguire was for Leicester.. Being the best in a poor team is extremely easy with little pressure to boot.
He might not flop as Maguire but as we have seen generally, this big signings never ever work as expected in all major clubs. We will be here to dissect the season and time will tell.
Arteta is now on a knife edge, after all the spending he needs to win something big this season. Over €800m on spending with only FA cup is such a blemish.
He is a very good player and will become great.
I said someone would pay £100m for him and I think most sensible people knew that it would happen. The odd wise guy said “no they won’t” but it was inevitable and, in SAF’s day it would have been us - he would have moved heaven and earth to get him.
I just hope we get a couple more good seasons out of Case before a gaping hole appears in our midfield.
I said someone would pay £100m for him and I think most sensible people knew that it would happen. The odd wise guy said “no they won’t” but it was inevitable and, in SAF’s day it would have been us - he would have moved heaven and earth to get him.
I just hope we get a couple more good seasons out of Case before a gaping hole appears in our midfield.
More ball recoveries than anyone in the league last season, more interceptions than anyone in the league, most distances carried, 2nd to Rodri for number of carries, 3rd in terms of total distance covered, played in 93% of available games the last 5 season....
Should be good player when he finds his form then!
Most of the players on this list are not close to Rice's level and this just shows how incredibly underrated Rice is on here.
Caicedo has only played one season in PL. Rice has been playing at a high level since he was 18.
Fabinho, Tonali (also box-to-box player) and Lobotka are so far away from his level. Busquets is old. Intelligent, but can barely move, hence his move to Inter Miami. Verratti is a deep lying playmaker. Camavinga has sick potential, but nowhere near at the moment.
Brozovic is probably the only one who is equally as good, but I'd rather have Rice due to his age and knows the PL already, and also a great leader.
It's just stat padding due to the way they play and his weaknesses, West Ham were 3rd from bottom for possession and if you look at their heatmaps they defended deep. It's MUCH easier to get interceptions and recoveries when you don't have the ball often, and it's also easier to run with the ball on a counter attack because you have more space to run into.
Half of those players are 29/30+ and would go for cheaper but not the age profile Arteta is after. Looking at Arteta's transfer history, the most he's paid for a player over 27 is £45mil for Partey.
Camavinga would be about same price as Rice (or more). Caceido a bit cheaper but still £60+ despite arguably being the least proven. Tonali is going for a big fee to Newcastle as well.
I don't know why people say Caicedo is least proven, if anything he is proven than most of the players to play in a dominant style that is played by top teams. He has proven to play aggressively, retaining possession and dominate midfield.
What high level? West Ham lost the midfield battle nearly every match they played last season, where is this high level? Where was his influence?
Brozovic was among the weakest in that list,
Insane money for a position I think is the one of the easiest on the pitch.
No responsibility to create goals, score goals, you don't have to be a great passer, you don't need great pace or agility.
The biggest thing a player needs for that role is simply the willingness to do it because it's a boring role.
Like Keano said when nearing the end, he could have played that role in his sleep, but didn't want to.
There has to be players out there who can do a similar job for much less.
No responsibility to create goals, score goals, you don't have to be a great passer, you don't need great pace or agility.
The biggest thing a player needs for that role is simply the willingness to do it because it's a boring role.
Like Keano said when nearing the end, he could have played that role in his sleep, but didn't want to.
There has to be players out there who can do a similar job for much less.
Age is definitely a factor, fair enough, but he hasn't fully proven himself yet where these others have. It's going to be very interesting to see how west ham and arsenal play next season.
Odd transfer imo.
Hope he flops.
Hope he flops.
Some DMs are players who dictate play as well, like rodri, they have a very tough job.
He's only just had his breakthrough season while the others have been at this level a bit longer.
Yeah, for that money, could have gone for a Busquets type and not just a destroyer. I rated Rice at West Ham, but he is not best in class.
Are you having a laugh? Arsenal and City were willing to pay £100m for him, but @Hammondo on the caf refuses to believe he plays at a high level.
Brozovic was the strongest name on that list, as he has shown for Inter and Croatia. You're listing players who don't even play as CDMs, an ancient Busquets who can't move and some prospect who doesn't even have a defined position on the pitch.