Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

[cesc's_mullet]

Doing some light research into comparing light research into comparing Rodri, Partey, Caicedo, Rice and Casemiro together.

Unsurprisingly Casemiro has the best defensive related stats (tackles, interceptions per game), followed by Caicedo.

Rodri is has the best passing and ball retention (passing attempts and accuracy) related stats, and is also good at progressing the ball (carries). Whilst Casemiro is pretty poor at this part of the game in comparison (clear lowest in progressing through carries, clear lowest passing accuracy).

Both Rice and Partey are both fairly similar in terms of their strengths. Rice is better defensively (#2 in intercepts) and both are good at carrying the ball and progressing it forward (carries and successful take-ons).

Disclaimer - stats were based on last season, and at the end of the day all of them are fairly good to elite at everything.

Just goes to show the varying strengths of DM's.

 

[Samid]

How much?

 

[IrishRedDevil]

£105m water carrier.

Has posters of Mainoo on his bedroom wall.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Someone said he was coming on in the second half and I almost believed it

 

[GledTheRed]

Invisible as usual.

 

[Reapersoul20]

shite

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

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Best defensive midfielder on the planet doesn’t read the game to an ”elite standard”

I wonder if Rice maybe played for a shite side involved in a relegation fight, that finished 22/23 on 41 points and saw much less of the ball than the other top midifielders on the list? Hmmmm

 

[NZT-One]

I think his pricetag will be questioned a lot in the first weeks but I think he will help Arsenal big time by taking pressure off so many others. Price has been absolutely bonkers though, no question about it. But I think Arsenal fans will be fine with it after a while.

 

[Hammondo]

Best defensive midfielder on the planet doesn’t read the game to an ”elite standard”

Because its such a nonsense understanding of stats.

So he gets more recoveries than anyone else, but his team lose the ball and give up possession a huge amount, giving him far more opportunities than nearly every other PL player.

His team play really deep also, inviting the attack, that also gives him the perfect situation to get interceptions and recoveries.

Rodri getting the second highest amount of recoveries is WAY more impressive because his team is the most dominant of the ball,his team has the ball more often so his opportunities to get the ball back is far smaller.

Also Rice played 37 PL games last season, so this thrown around few statistics is just used by people who don't understand how statistics work, and that you need to use a LOT of data to get any sort of a reasonable picture, using 2 statistics is nothing.

 

[crossy1686]

It's only a friendly but West Ham's best ever player has been vastly over-hyped by a lot of fans, our own included. You'd regularly see the word 'bossing' mentioned whenever we played West Ham but it's become apparent people don't really understand the game past having possession on the edge of your own penalty area and doing nothing with it.

 

[Amadaeus]

He is not a defensive midfielder. He should be playing the role Havertz is playing. I do not know who gave the greenlight to sign Havertz for £65m but whoever did, he needs to get the sack

 

[bosnian_red]

Not sure why Arteta is trying to replace both Partey and Xhaka with just Rice. He's a quality player, but he's not capable of that. Arteta found a nice balance last season and he's gone and tossed a false 9 in midfield and expects Rice to cover for both Odegaard and Havertz AND handle all the deep build up which is ridiculous. Can see them putting Partey back in for Havertz and getting that 2nd player deep after they have some struggles early on.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

He is not a defensive midfielder. He should be playing the role Havertz is playing. I do not know who gave the greenlight to sign Havertz for £65m but whoever did, he needs to get the sack

Lego. And they pay him £330k per week.

 

[Red Shorts]

When is he joining Arsenal?

 

[Adisa]

Good player but he’s a cog. You don’t pay £105m for a cog.

 

[WR10]

He made them look like West Ham today.

 

[RuudTom83]

Hmmm genuinely I didn’t realise he was playing (I was watching a stream)

Not sure he makes last seasons midfield any better.

But it’s early days so let’s see how he gets on after a few months. But he has the weight of that price tag now.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Midfield Maguire. Overrated as feck thank God this time it was arsenal and not us with that weird English obsession.

 

[SAFMUTD]

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When you see Casemiro and Rodri in half of that graph you just know is bollocks.

 

[Blood Mage]

I think he'll be decent for them but they really should have signed Caicedo instead, he's a better technician and would have been a better fit for what Arteta is trying to do.

 

[tenpoless]

For that price you expect a prime Zidane, not a trendy Darron Gibson.

 

[RyRy11]

Because its such a nonsense understanding of stats.

So he gets more recoveries than anyone else, but his team lose the ball and give up possession a huge amount, giving him far more opportunities than nearly every other PL player.

His team play really deep also, inviting the attack, that also gives him the perfect situation to get interceptions and recoveries.

Rodri getting the second highest amount of recoveries is WAY more impressive because his team is the most dominant of the ball,his team has the ball more often so his opportunities to get the ball back is far smaller.

Also Rice played 37 PL games last season, so this thrown around few statistics is just used by people who don't understand how statistics work, and that you need to use a LOT of data to get any sort of a reasonable picture, using 2 statistics is nothing.

On top of everything youve stated, saying that the amount of interceptions equate to how well a player "reads the game" is a complete false equivalence.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He is solid player for midtable team but overrated.

I personally prefer Mainoo, who I felt has higher ceiling.

 

[Remember the geese]

He is solid player for midtable team but overrated.

I personally prefer Mainoo, who I felt has higher ceiling.

Yeah, Mainoo is a far bigger talent.

 

[Tyrion]

Because its such a nonsense understanding of stats.

It's not often the people putting out the stat add some stupid interpretation of it.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Just too funny of a tweet to not share it.

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[Its all gone Shane Long]

I think he’s a decent player, not 100mil but again I wouldn’t judge him yet after one pre-season game. Wait till the season starts then we’ll see

 

[ROFLUTION]

Good player but he’s a cog. You don’t pay £105m for a cog.

I agree but most of Redcafe seems to be fine with spending 80m on another cog in Caicedo.

 

[Crimson King]

When you see Casemiro and Rodri in half of that graph you just know is bollocks.

I imagine it skews heavily towards players who play for teams who spend a majority of their time defending, and so have to make a lot of interceptions as they're being attacked frequently.

None of us need a graph to know Case and Rodri read the game to an 'elite' (whatever that means) level. What the graph doesn't tell you is how often those two also have to get involved in the attacking phase for their clubs.

It's just an example of how you can use data to show pretty much anything you want, but that doesn't mean you're getting the whole picture.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

The overblown reactions to his performance last night is equal to those who think he’s the greatest CDM of all time. He’ll be a good signing for them.

 

[horsechoker]

The overblown reactions to his performance last night is equal to those who think he’s the greatest CDM of all time. He’ll be a good signing for them.

People are already talking about Mainoo as a future 100m pound player. People get carried away easily one way or the other.

I think Rice will be a good signing but I don't see it with Havertz.

 

[Ducklegs]

He has been consistently shite for England where he just stands around doing not a great deal with arguably better players around him than at West Ham.

Some youtubers have said there is a lot more to come from him in a side where he doesn’t have to defend all the time, I personally have not seen any evidence that he some repressed midfield meastro.

 

[T00lsh3d]

The overblown reactions to his performance last night is equal to those who think he’s the greatest CDM of all time. He’ll be a good signing for them.

Absolutely. Not sure if he’ll be 105M worth of upgrade on Partey though, which should be the key question

 

[Oranges038]

When you see Casemiro and Rodri in half of that graph you just know is bollocks.

My thoughts exactly.

Nobody would have Rice or JWP over Rodri or Casemiro.

That graph is bollocks.

 

[crossy1686]

My thoughts exactly.

Nobody would have Rice or JWP over Rodri or Casemiro.

That graph is bollocks.

This is why you can’t trust stats, people misuse them to support their narrative and think stats give their point validation.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Midfield Maguire. Overrated as feck thank God this time it was arsenal and not us with that weird English obsession.

Yup, probably one of the most overrated PL players of all time. Delighted he's finally moved so we won't be linked with him anymore. I always feared we would be the mugs that blow an insane amount on him.

 

[Andersonson]

He has been consistently shite for England where he just stands around doing not a great deal with arguably better players around him than at West Ham.

Some youtubers have said there is a lot more to come from him in a side where he doesn’t have to defend all the time, I personally have not seen any evidence that he some repressed midfield meastro.

You're the type of fan who think the Carricks are shit and boring, but the Pogbas are world class

 

[Idxomer]

Absolutely. Not sure if he’ll be 105M worth of upgrade on Partey though, which should be the key question

I think they may end up playing together a lot if Arsenal doesn't end up selling Partey.

 

[Oranges038]

This is why you can’t trust stats, people misuse them to support their narrative and think stats give their point validation.

You can trust stats. Someone with high interception and recovery stats is obviously a player who is good at defensive aspects of the game, tackling etc. But, part of it is judging that against the team they are playing in, how much possession they have etc. In a team with less possession like West Ham, obviously Rice is going to have more chance of making more tackles and interceptions.

But this person has taken 2 stats, mapped them on graph and directly correlated it to a players mental ability to read the game, without using any context whatsoever. That's why this graph is utter bollocks.

 

[Shane88]

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"Recovers the ball a lot whilst reading the game to an elite standard."

What kind of stat is that? xE (expected eliteness)?