Declan Rice

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skc_18

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With Pogba mostly leaving in the summer and with Matic aging one more year, we need to buy more than 2 midfielders. This year there is a hot free agent market for CMs and DMs and we should be all over it.
Rice would be a good addition but I doubt that is the primary target for us.

We will have few important players leaving this year, Pogba, Martial and may be few others so we need to do a lot of investment. Spending 100m on Rice is not a good idea IMO.

I think from below we need to spend big on CF and winger anyway so I dont think we will spend 100m on a CM.

2 CMs/DMs
1 Centre Forward
1 Winger
1 Right-Back
 

RkkMan

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Everyone seems to keep forgetting that he is only 23. The £100m is £10m a year on the basis that he has 10 good years in front of him. If you factor in inflation it is less than that. I don't get all the player comparisons that are constantly made, another Maguire he most definitely is not
You pay £100m only for a special player. Xabi Alonso, Sergio Busquets, Makelele, prime Kante those are special talents who changed how DMs are viewed. Declan Rice is NOT a special player. He's a good player but there's nothing in his game that stands out compared to other DMs that makes him worth NINE FIGURES
You're also forgetting how much pressure that price tag comes with. The press and fans won't just let him slide if he keeps proving week in week out he's not worth the money if he can't last 2/3 seasons here then the £10m a year for the next 10 years hypothetical scenario becomes useless
The DM position is an easy position to find value for money. Matic(to Chelsea), Kimmich, Casemiro, Fernandinho, Kante, Partey, Fabinho, Verratti amongst others didn't cost a dime over £45m but they've all performed at world class levels either currently or when they were in their primes, higher than Rice even. Spending £100m on him isn't justifiable when there are other options less than half the price just as effective
 

Andersonson

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Rice is a special player in the same way Carrick was. Both brilliant.

Flair-fans who think Pogba is a good CM always underrate players like Carrick
 

Teja

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There's also the question of what type of midfielder we'd want under Ten Hag / whoever else. Rice's passing is pretty good, but I think he's primarily a DM and he needs to be paired with someone like Thiago, Jorginho etc. who can really pull the strings in a top side. I doubt Rice + Fred + Bruno will come close to midfield pairings like Casemiro + Kroos + Modric or Rodri + KdB + Bernardo or J. Martinez, Schewinsteiger and Kroos.

Effectively you need the midfield to solve various functions like setting the tempo for the game, finding line breaking passes, some ball carrying, pressing etc. and you have to make sure that's reasonably covered by your 3 mids.

Rice + Fred + Bruno lacks the playmaking / tempo setting aspect of it IMO. We will again have complaints saying we turned the ball over too quickly against City, should've kept it more etc.
 
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marktan

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You pay £100m only for a special player. Xabi Alonso, Sergio Busquets, Makelele, prime Kante those are special talents who changed how DMs are viewed. Declan Rice is NOT a special player. He's a good player but there's nothing in his game that stands out compared to other DMs that makes him worth NINE FIGURES
You're also forgetting how much pressure that price tag comes with. The press and fans won't just let him slide if he keeps proving week in week out he's not worth the money if he can't last 2/3 seasons here then the £10m a year for the next 10 years hypothetical scenario becomes useless
The DM position is an easy position to find value for money. Matic(to Chelsea), Kimmich, Casemiro, Fernandinho, Kante, Partey, Fabinho, Verratti amongst others didn't cost a dime over £45m but they've all performed at world class levels either currently or when they were in their primes, higher than Rice even. Spending £100m on him isn't justifiable when there are other options less than half the price just as effective
Our biggest issue over the past 5 years is spending £80m on a player each summer, and then neglecting the rest of the squad. Use the £150m we spend each summer on four £40m players for 2-3 years and our squad will look far better.

As other's have said we likely also need a RW, another CM, a CF and probably a RB too (in order of priority after DM). Our squad's in a sorry state and it's not going to be fixed in one summer but it sure as hell isn't going to help spunking most of our transfer budget on one player.
 

skc_18

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Rice is a special player in the same way Carrick was. Both brilliant.

Flair-fans who think Pogba is a good CM always underrate players like Carrick
I know this forum has a disagreement over Pogba but it would be silly to dismiss Pogba's abilities. On his day, he can be absolutely superb player but it does come in patches over a season. I doubt Carrick in place of Pogba (before Bruno arrived) would have improved that team a lot. We did not use Pogba properly, we needed a strong team around him , others doing dirty work just like we had with Ronaldo, although Ronaldo with ball was a different player compared to Pogba with ball.

Pogba was a big let down to all of us who had hopes he would deliver in whole season and probably bring some titles. Club is stupid for not selling Pogba few seasons back, especially after buying Bruno and investing that in the CM/CF.
Looking back, may be we would have been better backing Mou when had a fall out with Pogba. We are in worse position than Mou left us.
 

Hammondo

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Rice is a special player in the same way Carrick was. Both brilliant.

Flair-fans who think Pogba is a good CM always underrate players like Carrick
Rice is not close to Carrick.
 

Righteous Steps

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This is such a laughable comment that I keep seeing.

Clearly you either don't understand what £50m keeps you in today's market, or you haven't watched Rice very much at all.
It still gets you a lot quite clearly with the right scouting of course, it gets you a Fabinho or a Camavinga with change to spare, to act as if you still can’t get top quality players for circa 50m below is ridiculous.
 

skc_18

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Our biggest issue over the past 5 years is spending £80m on a player each summer, and then neglecting the rest of the squad. Use the £150m we spend each summer on four £40m players for 2-3 years and our squad will look far better.

As other's have said we likely also need a RW, another CM, a CF and probably a RB too (in order of priority after DM). Our squad's in a sorry state and it's not going to be fixed in one summer but it sure as hell isn't going to help spunking most of our transfer budget on one player.
Its not like our cheaper signings have been good. Most of our signings irrespective of the price have been a failure except for Bruno. Some of them have been successful but in patches and either lost form for longer periods or injured.
We are not buying for the team but rather buying for the positions which will never work.

The most success we had in terms of players performance have been from the academy ( Rashford, Greenwood)
 

Hughie77

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Just buy him . Please. I thought Chelsea would go for him, that looks off the cards so far, scum don't need him and they've spent £60 million on the Colombian, City don't need him, they will throw the cash at Haaland is my guess, so imo UTD should flex there muscles and get him.
 

DannyCAFC

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It still gets you a lot quite clearly with the right scouting of course, it gets you a Fabinho or a Camavinga with change to spare, to act as if you still can’t get top quality players for circa 50m below is ridiculous.
Fabinho was signed 4 years ago.
Camavinga had a year left on his deal.

Any others?
 

copen1945

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So, he has two more seasons to go on his contract, with a club option season on top. Effectively, he is contracted for three more seasons. Unless West Ham are willing to discuss a deal, this will go the same as the Kane transfer.
 

BenitoSTARR

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The fees reported are laughable. He’s a £50-60m player maximum.

I say this as a huge fan of his.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I also think a big problem we have is we’re stuck in the old mindset of “buy Premier league proven” where you’d go out and buy the best player. The problem is the league is so flush with money that now you pay a ridiculous premium.

We need to look abroad and develop.
 

Rozay

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Rice is not close to Carrick.
Michael Carrick gets better with every year on here. He was a good player, but he was just Michael Carrick. Let’s not re-write history. Rice has a lot of football left to play in his career, but he’s currently on a totally different pedigree than Carrick ever was. Even good players become overrated here because Carrick is not some sort of all-time great midfielder. He’s Michael Carrick. Rice has probably been the best defensive midfielder in England for two years now. Almost never has a bad game.
 

jesperjaap

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It still gets you a lot quite clearly with the right scouting of course, it gets you a Fabinho or a Camavinga with change to spare, to act as if you still can’t get top quality players for circa 50m below is ridiculous.
I followed Camavinga for ages and the general consensus I got from others on here was he is too oyung blah blah blah. As someone else mentioned, he had ayear left on hsi contract. Rice is ahead of where Camavinga is currently for sure.....Camavinga has a very high ceiling I think though.

Fabinho has been excellent at Liverpool no doubt, but he performs a role very well in probably the best side in Europe, Rice for me at least ability wise is defeinately a better player than Fabinho.

For me its not why pay £100m when you can get players just as good for half the price. He is perfect in terms of what our team need voth as a player and personality. Not saying he is better than other options as a player (though in my opinion better than other names I am hearing, I mean god people were saying McTominay was just as good a year or two back, Rice simply doesnt get the credit he deserves as he isnt a flair player or full of technique).....the simply problem with Rice bar age is similar to Kane, we need 5-7 signings this summer really, we simply cant spend so much money on one player unless we really do sell the likes of Maguire, Rashford and we wont sell them all.

So sadly, we do have to comprimise on what maybe is th ebest option in certain positions for what is the best option as a pool of players collectively, that is th eonly reason I wouldnt sign Rice, but all this there are so many players half the price as good ad right for us, I dotn agree with personally
 

jesperjaap

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The fees reported are laughable. He’s a £50-60m player maximum.

I say this as a huge fan of his.
Whether his value is £50/60m to a club buying him, his value is definately fare exceeding that to West Ham. Lets say they sell him for £50m. Does that money improve the team without him, I dont think so
 

Andrew7582

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Michael Carrick gets better with every year on here. He was a good player, but he was just Michael Carrick. Let’s not re-write history. Rice has a lot of football left to play in his career, but he’s currently on a totally different pedigree than Carrick ever was. Even good players become overrated here because Carrick is not some sort of all-time great midfielder. He’s Michael Carrick. Rice has probably been the best defensive midfielder in England for two years now. Almost never has a bad game.
Rice will never be as good a passer as Carrick was.
 

jesperjaap

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Same for Pogba at Juve. Same for Schneiderlin.

Means jack all as we should’ve learned by now.
Schneiderlin was always bang average, functioning in an average side, Pogba obviously has ability but as been a massive flop overall. Ive no doubt |rice would improve our midfield a lot and he would be a success here. If we needed 1/2signings Id go for him without a shadow of a doubt even at the fees reported.

We had simialr talk to this about Grealish a couple of years ago and how he wouldnt even get in the side over the current players, was utter hogwash.

It baffles me how people can say the likes of Rice and Grealish are not quality players and are massively overpriced, yet there is constant defending of players like Fred and VDB who cost similar fees for the two, and the likes of Rashford and McTominay from our youth....seems totally blinkered to me
 

jesperjaap

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Michael Carrick gets better with every year on here. He was a good player, but he was just Michael Carrick. Let’s not re-write history. Rice has a lot of football left to play in his career, but he’s currently on a totally different pedigree than Carrick ever was. Even good players become overrated here because Carrick is not some sort of all-time great midfielder. He’s Michael Carrick. Rice has probably been the best defensive midfielder in England for two years now. Almost never has a bad game.
Completely agree, dont wish to slate Carrick, he was a very good servant but Rice is 23, Carrick had pretty much a decade at the club into his mid thirties.

Carrick got a lot of criticism over the first half of his career here from many. He struggle against the press, he was often playing the safe ball. I liek Carrick, but think personally he was average to good for several seasons here with som great games wthin that period but he only really progressed to a top player here in his late 20s and he wasnt Ince, Keane or Robson, he isnt for me at least an all time great. I think we have been so dire for so long now, especially in central midfield that there is a touch of rose tinted glassed when we look back at players such as CArrick and Fletcher, that isnt a slight on them they were good players and loyal servants to the club, they deserve to be appluaded....but sorry Rice all round is a better player than Carrick, jstu because he doesnt have the great passing range and technique, he has the postional sense and also other attributes of hi sgame far exceed Carricks for me
 

EtH

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There is no pressure on West Ham to sell this summer, he still has 3 years on his deal. It would take Maguire money and then some to get him this summer, not happening.
Thought he only had two years left ?
 

Devil’s Trident

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Michael Carrick gets better with every year on here. He was a good player, but he was just Michael Carrick. Let’s not re-write history. Rice has a lot of football left to play in his career, but he’s currently on a totally different pedigree than Carrick ever was. Even good players become overrated here because Carrick is not some sort of all-time great midfielder. He’s Michael Carrick. Rice has probably been the best defensive midfielder in England for two years now. Almost never has a bad game.
Can’t agree more. Michael carrick ever since his retirement season after season has become almost pirloesque level. A decent to very good at best midfielder nothing more. I still remember very clearly how easily he used to get shrugged off the ball resulting in giving the ball away. Had really good passes on him but couldn’t get a grip on the midfield. Scholes in his second coming at the age of 40 was levels above him. We used to get dominated against almost every good team with carrick being the main culprit due to his lack of control on the game. During his time, Modric at spurs, Alonso at pool, yaya at city, fabregas at arsenal were all better than him yet people talk about him as one of the greatest midfielders the game has seen. Carrick was nothing at 22-23 compared to Rice. Also had Zero, big fat Zero leadership skills.
 

Rozay

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There is no pressure on West Ham to sell this summer, he still has 3 years on his deal. It would take Maguire money and then some to get him this summer, not happening.
Thought he only had two years left ?
Yep, one year left next summer. They aren’t exactly under pressure to sell, but Rice can certainly put them under pressure to sell, and I suspect he will.
 

Maniron

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Yep, one year left next summer. They aren’t exactly under pressure to sell, but Rice can certainly put them under pressure to sell, and I suspect he will.
Not if they win the Europa and after tonight they have a great chance
 

Zoo

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Am a long-term fan of Rice and have always stated his potential but saying that he’s a total different pedigree then Carrick ever was is ridiculous.
 

Rozay

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Am a long-term fan of Rice and have always stated his potential but saying that he’s a total different pedigree then Carrick ever was is ridiculous.
Carrick who was barely an international player. He was never in any sort of conversation of the very best PL midfielders, which Rice has been for a while, which is what I mean by pedigree.
 

caid

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Yep, one year left next summer. They aren’t exactly under pressure to sell, but Rice can certainly put them under pressure to sell, and I suspect he will.
2 years left this summer, with an option to extend for a 3rd. He wont be going anywhere
 

caid

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I dont even think he's that good. Worth a punt at 50m, but the idea he's a guarantee of quality is total nonsense in my view.
 

RuudTom83

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If he can lift the Europa Cup as West Ham Captain then that will be a huge achievement for the lad.
 

RedDevilCanuck

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I was critical of Carrick too but a CL and 2 more finals plus big wins against many CL teams suggests he was great. He played it safe when he first arrived but flourished when Scholes took a backseat.
 

Hammondo

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Michael Carrick gets better with every year on here. He was a good player, but he was just Michael Carrick. Let’s not re-write history. Rice has a lot of football left to play in his career, but he’s currently on a totally different pedigree than Carrick ever was. Even good players become overrated here because Carrick is not some sort of all-time great midfielder. He’s Michael Carrick. Rice has probably been the best defensive midfielder in England for two years now. Almost never has a bad game.
I couldn't disagree more, Rice can't do half of what Carrick did.
 

Andrew7582

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Okay. He will never be as good a passer as James Ward-Prowse either but he’s a far better midfielder.
Don't agree. You don't need to be as good at the things Rice is good at if you keep the ball better. Rice is also better than Busquets at certain things but i'd take Busquets over him all day long.
 

DickDastardly

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Midfield Harry Maguire.

He's miles away from the likes of Modrić or David Silva.

We don't need another "might be good" player.

And before you ask, no, i don't know who should we get.

All i know, it's not Declan fecking Rice.
 

Righteous Steps

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Fabinho has been excellent at Liverpool no doubt, but he performs a role very well in probably the best side in Europe, Rice for me at least ability wise is defeinately a better player than Fabinho.

For me its not why pay £100m when you can get players just as good for half the price. He is perfect in terms of what our team need voth as a player and personality. Not saying he is better than other options as a player (though in my opinion better than other names I am hearing, I mean god people were saying McTominay was just as good a year or two back, Rice simply doesnt get the credit he deserves as he isnt a flair player or full of technique).....the simply problem with Rice bar age is similar to Kane, we need 5-7 signings this summer really, we simply cant spend so much money on one player unless we really do sell the likes of Maguire, Rashford and we wont sell them all.

So sadly, we do have to comprimise on what maybe is th ebest option in certain positions for what is the best option as a pool of players collectively, that is th eonly reason I wouldnt sign Rice, but all this there are so many players half the price as good ad right for us, I dotn agree with personally
[/QUOTE]

Fabinho had played in CL semi final before he left for Liverpool, definitely a better player is so far off the mark it’s laughable. Liverpool are the best team in Europe because of players like Fabinho, they weren’t before he came into the side.

Any club that is willing to pay £70m plus for a defensive midfield probably has huge structural problems, a position where you can get top class players traditionally for a third of half of that price it’s indicative of a bigger problem because Rice isn’t a Veratti he isn’t a Kimmich or a CM who will be guaranteed to be one of the top 3-5 players in his position.

It’s a ridiculous price for a player who can be a top class DM but what DM is even truly worth that much especially one who hasn’t even played at the highest level of club football.
 

Rozay

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Don't agree. You don't need to be as good at the things Rice is good at if you keep the ball better. Rice is also better than Busquets at certain things but i'd take Busquets over him all day long.
Not that I’m one of these Opta boffs, but I’d guess Rice ‘keeps the ball’ at least as well as Carrick did. He rarely gives it away.

And so what if you’d take Busquets over him. Busquets is also a lot better than Carrick.
 
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