Yes, he absolutely can. But there’s a huge difference between United and West Ham which means to see him work you have to also take into account who he’s working with. If a pass isn’t on you can’t break the line.I didn't watch him today just saw his stats. I'm aware he's good defensively but can he build up play and make those forward line breaking passes like Matic?
I think its international football most of the time, it seems to leave a big imprint of people's heads.I haven't watched him too much but whenever I do he seems to have good ball control and passing.
Why do people say he's limited?
I've been interested in Rice, Koopmeiners as well alongside Kalvin Phillips (a bit problematic since hes a leeds player), but @He'sRaldo toned me down on Koopmeiners because he is a fan of AZ.Yes, he absolutely can. But there’s a huge difference between United and West Ham which means to see him work you have to also take into account who he’s working with. If a pass isn’t on you can’t break the line.
There’s a reason he along with Koopmeiners were my top choices for DM.
I think you’re right. People see one game and think they can judge a player.I think its international football most of the time, it seems to leave a big imprint of people's heads.
I've seen this with Rice for england, milinkovic savic - even I've used Sancho's RW performances for england to tone down my hype a bit for him.
Rice's passing stats have been 87% accurate throughout the season last time I checked in the PL.(I'm not accurate myself with data though).
How often have you watched a full game of his?I don't see anything he brings that Fred/Mctominay don't already tbh.
He's a huffer and puffer but do we really need to spend 50/60m to get that? not for me.
I'm sure he will improve a lot considering he's only 20 but he isn't ready for us yet IMO.
He might not be ready for us yet but will definitely improve, as you said, he's only 20.I don't see anything he brings that Fred/Mctominay don't already tbh.
He's a huffer and puffer but do we really need to spend 50/60m to get that? not for me.
I'm sure he will improve a lot considering he's only 20 but he isn't ready for us yet IMO.
He is improving. He used to pass mostly backwards and sideways. His defensive game is still as good as ever.Why do people keep saying he's limited on the ball??
I think you’re right. People see one game and think they can judge a player.
It’s like the Camavinga PSG game. I guarantee barely anyone watched that game but people go on about it like he’s the second coming and ignore all other games he’s played since.
It’s all flavour of the month with some people rather than being open to actually gaining an informed opinion or learning from others.
You’re slightly off with his stats it’s 86%.
Sorry for the ranting but it’s just a frustrating forum at times.
How often have you watched a full game of his?
Do you believe you’ve watched enough of him to make a fair assessment of him over time?
I’d argue he’s very different to Fred and
McTominay at the moment in terms of positioning and discipline. He’s a very sensible footballer in terms of decision making which in a poorer side is difficult!
He is absolutely not a huffer and puffer which implies he’s just a hard worker. Lazy lazy comments.
I don’t know of any DM in world football who was the finished product at 20. It’s harder to be a great DM because so much of it is mental ability compare to attacking players who can occasionally shine on instinct.
Fred certainly could not do Rice’s job and McTominay needs more coaching to get there too.
Also AZ fan here too! Rare to find another one so would love to discuss with @He’sRaldoI've been interested in Rice, Koopmeiners as well alongside Kalvin Phillips (a bit problematic since hes a leeds player), but @He'sRaldo toned me down on Koopmeiners because he is a fan of AZ.
Has he improved @He'sRaldo ?
And would you prefer him over rice? We were also talking about Matic's ability with his left foot which maybe important in passing abilities at angles and dropping deep to cover angles that Maguire might struggle at under a 2 man central defence and Koopmeiners has that left foot - but ultimately it's that ability to Play 3 CB with 2 CB and 1 CDM which is going to turn this team to magic and it's why I've been interested in the same players.
If west ham dont stay up that might be enough for Ole for rice unless someone like Koopmeiners is significantly cheaper.
Why do you think he used to pass more back and sideways?He is improving. He used to pass mostly backwards and sideways. His defensive game is still as good as ever.
To be fair I've seen him play for England with much better players and he was unable to connect the play from midfield to the forwardsWhy do you think he used to pass more back and sideways?
Could it be the movement in front of him limiting the line breaks?
He's our best player right now. It's a damn shame that the season was cut short as we were competing for the title and he was a big part of that. With what Man Utd needs in terms of a Matic replacement, he's the best I can think of stylistically, but Rice has played in the PL so is more of a guarantee. I haven't watched Rice as much as Koopmeiners, and their teams have very different ways of playing so it's hard to compare them directly.I've been interested in Rice, Koopmeiners as well alongside Kalvin Phillips (a bit problematic since hes a leeds player), but @He'sRaldo toned me down on Koopmeiners because he is a fan of AZ.
Has he improved @He'sRaldo ?
And would you prefer him over rice? We were also talking about Matic's ability with his left foot which maybe important in passing abilities at angles and dropping deep to cover angles that Maguire might struggle at under a 2 man central defence and Koopmeiners has that left foot - but ultimately it's that ability to Play 3 CB with 2 CB and 1 CDM which is going to turn this team to magic and it's why I've been interested in the same players.
If west ham dont stay up that might be enough for Ole for rice unless someone like Koopmeiners is significantly cheaper.
I’ve watched him a fair few time’s and while he’s been combative he plays a very different style or role to what we would require at United.I think you’re right. People see one game and think they can judge a player.
It’s like the Camavinga PSG game. I guarantee barely anyone watched that game but people go on about it like he’s the second coming and ignore all other games he’s played since.
It’s all flavour of the month with some people rather than being open to actually gaining an informed opinion or learning from others.
You’re slightly off with his stats it’s 86%.
Sorry for the ranting but it’s just a frustrating forum at times.
How often have you watched a full game of his?
Do you believe you’ve watched enough of him to make a fair assessment of him over time?
I’d argue he’s very different to Fred and
McTominay at the moment in terms of positioning and discipline. He’s a very sensible footballer in terms of decision making which in a poorer side is difficult!
He is absolutely not a huffer and puffer which implies he’s just a hard worker. Lazy lazy comments.
I don’t know of any DM in world football who was the finished product at 20. It’s harder to be a great DM because so much of it is mental ability compare to attacking players who can occasionally shine on instinct.
Fred certainly could not do Rice’s job and McTominay needs more coaching to get there too.
With respect I’d say watch him more. Then see what you think.I’ve watched him a fair few time’s and while he’s been combative he plays a very different style or role to what we would require at United.
the closest we can see him playing that way is with England and he’s had a few absolute stinkers. Like I said he has potential but he seems a very safe passer that relies more on his physique than technique. At 20 though he has time to learn this.
I would want to see him improve a lot more before we considered buying.
I can’t comment on Capoue or Billing but stats dont show you the mental side of the game his positioning and decision making are consistent.I personally dont rate him and hed cost 60 million.
Statistically rates okay but below billing and capoue this season so that doesnt mean a lot.
If we signed him it means one or two of matic, mct, fred and garner has to go, and then we spend 60m on a quite average midfielder.
would just be a pointless signing and waste of money, in my opinion
define dm? Im not sure fred or mct can be classed as offensive or creative midfielders.....I can’t comment on Capoue or Billing but stats dont show you the mental side of the game his positioning and decision making are consistent.
Wouldn’t be pointless as Garner could do with a season of first team football so probably a loan and unless we are grooming McTominay we won’t have a DM beyond Matic.
Just watched a YT compilation of his so I'm obviously an expert now...Yes, he absolutely can. But there’s a huge difference between United and West Ham which means to see him work you have to also take into account who he’s working with. If a pass isn’t on you can’t break the line.
There’s a reason he along with Koopmeiners were my top choices for DM.
Just looked at one myself. Wand of a left foot. Let's hope he's on United's scouting radar. He looks worryingly like a player the scousers would sign and be brilliant for them.Just watched a YT compilation of his so I'm obviously an expert now...
Wow. What a player he looks! Literally looks perfect. Plays in a holding position, seems to break up play well, looking at his stats he gets goals too. His passing.... My word. The weight of them really remind me of Scholes. 6 foot, 22 and club captain already? If he's half as good as the clip I watched makes him look we should be all over him.
Him and Stengs would be good signingsYes, he absolutely can. But there’s a huge difference between United and West Ham which means to see him work you have to also take into account who he’s working with. If a pass isn’t on you can’t break the line.
There’s a reason he along with Koopmeiners were my top choices for DM.
If he is close to their level 20m is maximum we should offer or as you say, stay fecking clear. However I watched him last night against Chelsea, he looked very good, however I haven't seen him regularly.I don't see anything he brings that Fred/Mctominay don't already tbh.
He's a huffer and puffer but do we really need to spend 50/60m to get that? not for me.
I'm sure he will improve a lot considering he's only 20 but he isn't ready for us yet IMO.
I agree with this. If on form Matic played for them he would be their best play maker by far. That is the level i want us to have at DM.I don't see anything he brings that Fred/Mctominay don't already tbh.
He's a huffer and puffer but do we really need to spend 50/60m to get that? not for me.
I'm sure he will improve a lot considering he's only 20 but he isn't ready for us yet IMO.
That’s his highlights of course but he does that most games. He literally doesn’t stop passing all game averages 83 per game (which is nearly double other DMs) and 6.2 long passes per 90 (even higher in Europa league).Just watched a YT compilation of his so I'm obviously an expert now...
Wow. What a player he looks! Literally looks perfect. Plays in a holding position, seems to break up play well, looking at his stats he gets goals too. His passing.... My word. The weight of them really remind me of Scholes. 6 foot, 22 and club captain already? If he's half as good as the clip I watched makes him look we should be all over him.
Yup. I’d be amazed if he isn’t picked up on the cheap this window.Just looked at one myself. Wand of a left foot. Let's hope he's on United's scouting radar. He looks worryingly like a player the scousers would sign and be brilliant for them.
Not as keen on Stengs. Not for us anyway.Him and Stengs would be good signings
Stengs is still far away from the required level.Him and Stengs would be good signings
Imo, passing completion is a poor way to judge a player's passing ability.Rice's passing stats have been 87% accurate throughout the season last time I checked in the PL.(I'm not accurate myself with data though
Agreed, it tells me he is a very safe passer. Tom Cleveley probably has strong passing stats.Imo, passing completion is a poor way to judge a player's passing ability.
Not sure. Thought it was to do with ability. He had little qualms switching the ball mid-range from centre to flank with the opposition deep, which showed that he could pass longer than short range. But most times he won the ball, and there's a chance for a counter, space to drive into, or a quick release, he would just ignore it and take the easy sideways option. Maybe he was struggling to shake off the 'centreback' mentality - he was basically shirking responsibility when he had the ball.Why do you think he used to pass more back and sideways?
Could it be the movement in front of him limiting the line breaks?
Like I said i've watched him plenty and right now I don't see anything he does that Mctominay doesn't.With respect I’d say watch him more. Then see what you think.
I don’t think you’ve got a big enough sample of him.
His role is actually very similar it’s just he’s at West Ham. He plays more like Matic than Ndidi for example.
I have to agree with this, from a balance and economic point of view I don't think its feasible to sign Rice and the proceed to keep both Fred and McTominay. Both are back ups and they offer something similar so it wouldn't make sense to have two DMs in the squad plus two defensive B2B midfielders but without like for like replacements for Pogba and Bruno.Depends on how we want to set up our midfield. In the classic setup with DM+B2B+AM we currently have:
DM: Matic (Garner)
B2B: Pogba, Mctominay, Fred, (Levitt, Mejbri)
AM: Fernandes, Lingard, Pereira, (Gomes)
If we can play with Pogba + another B2B player, I don't think we need Rice.
If we can't, then we need a player like Rice, but we might also need to reduce our number of B2B players.
We should also look to replace Lingard and Pereira with a better player. If we go for Grealish, who can play B2B as well, there might not be a place for Fred.
