The other way to look at it is this. We finished 2nd last season. Mourinho asked for improvements in defense and was denied by Woodward. Mourinho, being a stubborn guy, lost his shit and decided to give up on the job.
Did Woodward get it right, then?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Get it right in fooling most united fans , announced Martial renewal and sold Fellaini at deadline day to cover the fact that we are actually weakening ourselves without getting adequate replacement while all our rival has strengthen theirs. All his actions are about how to save more money. This is why there are zero chance of Poch getting here. I work as public accountant , i know how an accountant , financial analysts , and an investment banker thinks. Take a note , renewing player's contract is always cheaper than buying new one , if you think buying Bailly , Lindelof and Fred prove that he is willing to spend money, then you are wrong. He is just buying the cheapest option with resale value and pray it works. He must have been praying everyday for Andreas Pereira to work here so he can save more, meanwhile Ole is the cheapest yes man he can get on the market, a club legend loved and respected by many
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I don't agree with much of your post as its manly conjecture or a wum.
I don't think any of our rivals have strengthened their squads this window so I don't see why that is the case. Poch is at a club where they have spent very little money while we have spent lots so if it over a matter of squad investment then that isn't going to be the reason.
Unless you are running a top football club you have zero knowledge of what Ed is thinking all you have is your opinion like the rest of us which is fine but don't claim you know just because your an accountant. Ed and the Glaziers are no custodians and are only interested in making money, but I do think they know they can only do that if we are successful long term on the pitch.
Rest of the post is just drivel, choosing Fred a £50m signing and 2 £30m Centre backs are odd choices to say that they were the cheapest options for resale value. We have wasted huge amounts of money buying player's for different managers and different styles of football. If Ed and the board guiltily of anything it is employing the wrong type of managers which only obvious after the fact.
Ole is a cheaper option then Poch but he wasn't the obvious option at the time and the likes of Zidane, Blanc and Jardim who were unemployed were probably safer high profile manager. We still had to pay a loan fee and a fee if we employ him full time.
the CEO only buys the players the manager wants. Also note that we're one of football biggest spenders. Don't let some failed manager who lost 3 consecutive dressing rooms at a row fool you on that
There was nothing that indicated that Woodward refused to sign the improvements Mourinho wanted. He refused to massively overpay for them. There's a big difference. The former is Woodward thinking he knew better than Mourinho and refusing to work with him. The latter indicates that he tried to work with him, but the options that Mourinho gave him weren't available (without paying a stupid amount that everyone and their dog knew was far too much).
There was tonnes available, really?
Pochettino joined Spurs on May 27th 2014. Basically he'd already been in talks to go from Saints to Spurs. Simeone is arguably the most boring manager in world football and more importantly something you choose to ignore, he isn't leaving Athletico. He loves that club and the only job I could see him leaving Athletico for is the Argentina job and he's not exactly rushing to get that job either it seems considering the constant changes there. Emery had just signed with Sevilla a the season prior and won the Europa, was he going to jump ship that quickly? Doubtful.
Not sure why you felt the need to reiterate what I already said regarding Klopp, I said he was better? But he refused the job.
See anyone could do what you just done and throw a bunch of names around, but when you decide to deal in reality many of the names weren't options. Klopp refused, Poch just signed on with Spurs at almost exactly the same time and was an unknown quantity with regards a top job, Emery successful with Sevilla and likely not to leave etc etc... Just because United need a manager it doesn't mean we can get absolutely whomever we wish. This isn't football manager, its real life and managers will often turn jobs down for a variety of reasons.
The football was indeed poor under LVG, still he done a pretty impressive job of rebuilding United. Considering Jose became overly reliant on LVG signings to keep himself in a job it speaks volumes of his tenure here. We've arguably 2 of the finest young attacking talents in world football thanks to LVG ironically.
You've well and truly created your own narrative above regarding LVG. You refuse to believe it was Gill who gave Moyes the 6 year deal? Well newsflash for you buddy, he was the Chief Exec at the time. If you are going to blame Woody for stupid transfers like Fellaini when he was Chief Exec then you damned well better blame Gill who was doing the job prior to him.
As for LVG's firing, it was Jose and Mendes (his agent) who leaked the news regarding LVG's sacking (feel free to google search Mendes leaks Mourinho appointment, plenty of articles about). The board had no choice and had to tell him in the hotel post FA Cup Final thanks the virus Jose.
Yes LVG like Jose had issues with player unrest at other clubs, Ferguson had it too at Aberdeen. Should we of not appointed Ferguson either then in 86? He also made those clubs very successful and but for Jose in the CL final in 2010 he would of won a treble at Bayern.
He lost 2-3 players the month prior to the World Cup if memory serves right and had to quickly set up his team again. Think it was Van Der Vaart and Van Bommel, the latter being vital to his set up.
No doubt losing those 3 post World Cup hurt as well to any successive managers, but they've some very talented youth coming through as well since and its not being made the best of.
At that point we were a big failure from Moyes away from the Sir Alex era, that paired with a willingness to spend cash would have made any manager consider us an option. Having talks to one club doesn't exclude a change of plans if a better one comes along until the papers are signed.
If Woodward was more proactive he could have talked to managers before they had decided where to go as well. You really believe Woodward has done a spotless job? Then you are the only one in here I'm afraid.
You must be living in 2009. Everyone and their dog knows that Dembele or Coutinho aren't worth what Barca paid. Van Dyke and Allison for Liverpool, Kepa for Chelsea the list goes on. Player's worth doesn't come from the balance sheet, it comes from the trophy cabinet. You take risks in the market to satisfy fans that give them money in the long term.
Last season we were penny pinching on selling Darmian for a few extra million. The priorities are all wrong. We could have overpaid for defenders like Skriniar, Milenkovic, Koulibaly, Alderweireld but we chose not to because Jones making game changing errors is alright.
Alderweireld would have cost us something like £65m last season. Or £25m this season. Was it really worth paying £40m for one season? Particularly for an aging player who has had some issues with injuries.
Koulibaly supposedly had a €100m bid turned down. How much further above the world record are we supposed to bid?
Milenkovic reportedly over £50m, despite playing just half a season where he'd only played a grand total of 17 matches. Maguire was £75m, and most here agree he probably isn't good enough. Boateng £45m and most feel he is completely past it (plus he apparently didn't want to leave Bayern).
There is overpaying to the current market conditions, and then there is massively overpaying even in the current climate. Skriniar is the only one there who maybe would have been worth it, but I'm not even sure if we were after him or if he was just a fan wish. An argument could be made for going even higher for Koulibaly. Otherwise, it's debatable whether we should even be looking at any of the others, let alone bidding ridiculous amounts.
I have no issue with the club spending and even overspending on rare players but I do have an issue with what you just wrote. Half of the players you mentioned, Skriniar and Koulibaly, made it clear that they were going nowhere, both signed new contracts between January and september 2018. Then Milenkovic is an unknown quantity while Alderweireld isn't at his best and wasn't justifying his potential fee.
Spending big for spending big is foolish, you don't put cheques on the team sheet but actual players, spending on the correct players is the key not simply spending. That's why I was against the purchase of Lukaku not because we didn't need an attacker or because I didn't want the club to spend big on one but because every failed transfer limit our ability to improve or maintain the overall level of the squad since the club isn't an endless pit of money.
I tend to see it this way.
Although Mourinho was
This approach from the board is what will stop us competing at the top level.
We need to strengthen. Waiting a season to do so is unacceptable when you consider our league finishes over the last 5 years! Regardless of how much we can save. We're not Poundland! We generate more revenue than any other club so have the means to invest.
You've pulled this one straight out of the negative locker.
"all" our rivals have strengthened? Tottenham? No-one. City/Liverpool No-one. Arsenal, the lesser Suarez brother...no idea if he's any good yet.
Chelsea, Higuaín. Will he be good, or will be their latest massive striker flop?
Fellaini has barely had a minute in this last 9 games, so it's hardly weakening us.
How on earth is Fred the "cheapest option", at 50m?
And if we were really about saving money, we wouldn't have shipped 400-500m out in recent seasons.
And i'd certainly prefer a "yes" man if it's Solskjaer, rather than a "No" man like we just had in Jose!
@breakout67 pretending that he’s watched the likes of Skriniar and Milinkwhothefeckisit regularly is great. Better yet, then using it as justification to criticise the board for not spending extraordinary sums for players that might not even be available (bear in mind that we don’t really know if they’re actually any good).
Strikes me as the same sort who then call Woodward an idiot for overpaying for players who turn out to fail as a result of rank management. Can’t win.
Half (let’s be honest, it’s probably more) these lads that come over from Série A go on to look largely shite anyway. I’m just pleased some of you lot aren’t anywhere near the club.
Strikes me as the same sort who then call Woodward an idiot for overpaying for players who turn out to fail as a result of rank management. Can’t win.
Half (let’s be honest, it’s probably more) these lads that come over from Série A go on to look largely shite anyway. I’m just pleased some of you lot aren’t anywhere near the club.
'No value in the market'
Fans still falling for that club fed tripe when it's obvious that it's poor negotiating not poor value. LVG already said that United get quotes significantly higher prices than other clubs, most likely due to Woodwards vision of us being an 'Adult Disneyland'. According to the BBC, Woodward was pushing hard for Varane, but negotiations went nowhere because he was not interested leaving the CL champions. Well no shit, that's time and resources wasted chasing a pipe dream. The same source said that we went in for Godin at the last minute and got used for an extension, a classic move and our recruitment staff fell for it.
All those figures can be taken with a grain of salt because they come with a United tax caused by the club itself.
Exactly.
Woodward was saying he is prepared to spend 100mil on a CB.
Then we wonder why other clubs jack up prices when they see us coming.
And what is the best way of stopping that attitude from selling clubs? Is it just buying the players for those grossly inflated sums anyway, which is what some seem to want? Or is it refusing to do so for a couple of years (which is what we seem to have done) to give ourselves a stronger bargaining hand later on?
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Not the sort of talk that is going to lower prices.
Why is he going around saying we can spend 100mil on a CB? We can do things that other clubs can only dream of in the transfer market?
Not the sort of talk that is going to lower prices.
His biggest error was giving Mourinho the contract. He was right not to back him this summer because Mourinho's plans were terrible and would have damaged the club further, but that should have resulted in his leaving before the season started. Woodward persevered with him purely in the hope that he could avoid paying him off.
I think pinning everything on Jose for the disaster we had at the start of the season would be failing to holistically look at the problems we have been having as a club.
Jose whined and failed to manage his dressing room well. But I totally believe if the club had fully backed him after last season's second place finish, he would have gone on to challenge for the title. That's how good Jose is when he gets what he wants. And yes, I mean even if backing him meant letting the players that wanted to leave, go (including Pogba and Martial).
Before people come after me (not that I care much), I do support the decision to fire him and I am happy we still have Pogba here and the team has experienced a resurgence.
To be more specific, Woodward screwed up as much as Jose did. The rule is simple really: hire the RIGHT manager and back him FULLY.
Always interesting that people think Woodward is American instead of someone who was born and raised in England but worked in America after graduating from a British school.
The 100m on a centreback - where did he say that? I thought he did as well, but I can't find anything other than media saying we would have been willing to spend it on Varane. I thought it was in a conference call with the shareholders, but I can't find actual quotes or comments from Woodward.
The 'can do things that other clubs can only dream of' quote is from 4-5 years ago. It really only feels like the last two years where we've been trying to rein it in a bit.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Woodward has done everything right. Far from it. He's made plenty of mistakes (although it should be noted that we fans agreed with the majority of them at the time and we only know they were mistakes in hindsight). But I simply disagree with the claim that he flat out refused to sign a defender, and think it was quite obvious he did try to but ultimately couldn't warrant paying the costs we were quoted for them. Whether he was right to do that or not is another question. It has to be noted that the fans did agree with him on each individual case, as anybody who was on this forum at the time will know.
This is an extremely harsh statement and somewhat misguided it has to be said.
The 'United Tax' came into effect long before ED Woodward became CEO of the club. We have been smashing transfer records and generally paying over the odds for players as far back as David Gill and Peter Kenyon before him. It's most certainly not exclusive to Woody.
I wouldn't say spotless, he's had some errors but that's to be expected going into a new job and one that required a serious clean up after damning errors from his predecessor. The finance side, superb, managerial appointments in LVG & Jose not great but 3 trophies in 4 seasons, albeit "B" level trophies. They've all been financially backed and can't really complain.
Well he contacted Klopp who refused it, I'm not sure about Pochettino at the time but as I said he was an unknown quantity. He done a decent job at Southampton, but was that enough to say here's the hot seat at United? Not in my mind, I certainly wouldn't of wanted him on the back of his Southampton stint alone, after his work at Spurs now definitely have no problem him taking it. Which I think you are including in your rhetoric here. The others you listed as well were very unlikely to want to join us or not suitable for the role either (Simeone worse than Jose for defensive football).
What an embarrassing post!
Fellaini wasn't wanted by the board in the summer, but for Jose forcing Woodward to renew with his very loud and public admiration of the mop top! Yeah what a huge mistake keeping Martial here is, suppose you're another Jose in sort who sided with his sentiments of getting rid of him?
The bold part is factually untrue and can only be summarized as trolling surely? You do realize we've footballs biggest wage bill right? If off loading a fairly limited and average player in Fellaini lowers that wage bill then fan-bloody-tastic! We've a spate of hangers on like Valencia, Jones and a few others that don't deserve the wages they are being paid vs their input. Our transfer spend is astronomical and only bettered by City and PSG.
You'd actually swear buying cheap and making a profit (if it so happens) is a bad thing? Would you prefer to over spend and make a loss? Sure that'd be another stick to beat the board with, so the clueless like yourself could spout more nonsense.
My god this has to probably be the worst comment I've read on the cafe, I genuinely mean that.
Did the guy get it right? Let's evaluate it based on hearsay and conjecture.
The only thing Ed did right was to appoint Ole!
Everything else was totally feckt!
Everything else was totally feckt!
We are the richest football club in the world but we didn't act like one. Other big club bought expensive player ,turn flop , they bought another one to replace them ,as simple as that , they don't blame the manager for it , Coutinho cost 140m and has been wank since then but nobody blame the manager instead they back him up by buying De Jong for next season. We finished second last season, what Woodward should do is to fully back the manager in transfer window to lift up us instead he bought farmer from Ukrainian league who wouldn't cost more than 40 if he was good at negotiating and 19 years old Rb who didn't even play much competitive football yet, He thought Smalling and Jones is better than anyone else available. Who cares if Alderweireld cost 65m and will be 25m later, we are rich and we should act like one. Other big club don't mind selling player for lost since they aren't retirement home. Take a note , the only thing that can prove me wrong is if we spend over than 300m next season to back the new manager , you can call me troll if he bought us an improvement in CB , fullback , CM and RW cause i am sure Woodward will find a way to spend less , renewing deadwood contract and still manage to trick you all by announcing De Gea extension so our summer end up with "happy ending" again.What an embarrassing post!
Fellaini wasn't wanted by the board in the summer, but for Jose forcing Woodward to renew with his very loud and public admiration of the mop top! Yeah what a huge mistake keeping Martial here is, suppose you're another Jose in sort who sided with his sentiments of getting rid of him?
The bold part is factually untrue and can only be summarized as trolling surely? You do realize we've footballs biggest wage bill right? If off loading a fairly limited and average player in Fellaini lowers that wage bill then fan-bloody-tastic! We've a spate of hangers on like Valencia, Jones and a few others that don't deserve the wages they are being paid vs their input. Our transfer spend is astronomical and only bettered by City and PSG.
You'd actually swear buying cheap and making a profit (if it so happens) is a bad thing? Would you prefer to over spend and make a loss? Sure that'd be another stick to beat the board with, so the clueless like yourself could spout more nonsense.
My god this has to probably be the worst comment I've read on the cafe, I genuinely mean that.
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Alderweireld for ~35m would have been a fine signing regardless.
Maguire for 80m or Boateng for 40m definitely not so much.
Willian and Perisic would have been awful signings.
Maguire for 80m or Boateng for 40m definitely not so much.
Willian and Perisic would have been awful signings.
We don't act like a rich club? Again, only City and PSG have outspent us since 2013.
For all of City & PSG spend, neither are dominant are they? Yes they've won leagues but no Champions Leagues to show for it as yet. Basically what I'm saying is, money spent isn't the be all and end all.
For a club apparently not acting like its the richest since Ferguson retired this is a list of spending records we have broken...
Mata - Club record transfer in the Jan transfer window post Ferguson
Di Maria - Club transfer record and British Transfer record
Shaw - Same summer, World Transfer record for a teenager
Martial - One summer later, broke the record paid for a teenager again.
Pogba - Broke the World Transfer record a summer later
Lukaku - Premier League's 2nd most expensive player, still to this day
Sanchez - Made him the Premier leagues best paid player, another record.
Basically, every single season we are breaking a transfer or spending record of some kind... This along with having the premier leagues biggest wage bill AND... Only Man City out spending us. But in in your mind, we don't act like a rich club? Basically unless we outspend every club in world football by hundreds of millions you won't be happy it seems yeah?
So spend €65m on an ageing (short term fix), injury prone Toby who has been questionable in performance this season? Basically spend money for the sake of it and don't factor in if it would actually improve the team or not? Funny how Jose's ravings from Summer to Dec about a centre half was needed, yet since Ole rocked up, we've done a 180 and now have the leagues best defence in that short time frame. Fewest goals conceded in 7 league games, what a coincidence hey?
The renewal of many players contracts is largely down to the man in charge... eg, LVG or Jose..you know the manager. If a manager wants to keep a player, the board will discuss a new deal. In most cases I'd imagine its that simple, however when you've a toxic, virus of a manager like Jose and he's saying get rid of Martial for Willian or Perisic then the board would of start asking questions about the sanity of said manager.
Sorry but I'd prefer the club is ran in a sensible manner and we not just spend like you suggest on players for the hell of it, otherwise we'll end up like Leeds.
The rest of your rant seems to be formed on the basis of years of experience playing FIFA or Football manager. There's no reality to be found in your posts what so ever, I've given you facts here and all you want is spend, spend, spend regardless of the repercussions (FFF?).
I still cannot understand why we didn't strengthen in the backline last month when we are leaking goals. Getting top 4 should surely be our main aim this season.
We dropped points against lowly Burnley because of our defence. Today, could be the same story against Leicester.
We dropped points against lowly Burnley because of our defence. Today, could be the same story against Leicester.
I’ve said this before, but it’s to do with the managerial situation. Defense isn’t a one size fits all position. Managers look for different things out of their CB’s, value different qualities than others in their CB’s.
I used the example of Pique, a player considered by a lot of people to be one of the best defenders of the era gone by, but considered by a lot of people on here to be overrated and not very good. Would he be as good under a Tony Pulis type set up? Probably not. We are inevitably going to go big on a defender to be the rock of our central defense, but it is important to get the right player that fits what the manager wants. It’s not as easy as saying “a quality defender is a quality defender” because we don’t know what quality our permanent manager will be looking for.
Disrespect to Toby Alderweireld. Spurs are just 4 points below Liverpool now and He played almost every game , do you seriously think a player of his quality won't improve us ? Or do you think Willian isn't going to improve us ? He is a quality RW ( not LW so he won't take Martial spot in first place ) and has been and will be influential for Chelsea to finish top 4, ahead of us. Both players are without any single doubt , will improve us. But since they don't have any resale value , Woodward isn't interested with. Sanchez was a swap , even if his rumored 500k wage was true that's just 21m per year , very cheap compared to flop like Naby Keita. Chelsea and Arsenal who are our top 4 rival has strengthens their squad in January window , while we just weaken ours, that remains fact.
Are you are saying Mctominay renewal happened because Ole rate him ? Or Smalling because apparently Jose want him despite has been crying for new CB last summer ?
Or they get renewal because it's much cheaper compared to buying new one ? Whatever it is we still don't act like big club , we don't get rid of our deadwood enough and replace them with world class player while City , Liverpool and Chelsea does that regularly.
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Agreed.
Looking at our spend post 2013 does not give the full picture.
The lack of spending in the years before 2013 is exactly why we needed to spend big afterwards. We should have spent even more post 2013.
Not investing heavily in more players last Summer transfer window is yet another massive strategy error after many other strategic errors by our owners and Woodward.
This is a brilliant point.
Toby is a good centre half on his day, but dependent on price I wasn't in a rush to sign him. The board stated that if a top quality CB in the mould of Varane was available they'd invest. Why sign someone for a quick fix, if even that? Would Jose of got the best from him considering how spectacularly he failed with his previous centre half purchases? Better yet, being as he failed pretty much with all his signings by the end.
He wanted rid of Martial, lets not try pretend Jose didn't. From what we could see it would of been Sanchez on the left, Lukaku up top with Willian RW. Willian is absolutely average man, christ I can't believe anyone would actually attempt to support the sale of Martial and purchase of an overrated player like Willian. Willian in Chelsea's last league win was involved in a whopping 10 league goals. Martial, who had his worst season for us in 2016/17 under Jose in that first year still managed the same as him.
Arsenal signed Suarez, a bit part Barca player at best. Chelsea lost Morata and signed Higuain, that's basically like for like. Who knows how Higuain will perform. Pulisic isn't there til August so its a non factor.
So where exactly are you seeing other teams "strengthening" and us getting weaker?
I'll put it to you we've a very, very good squad already. Just a clown of a manager in Jose failing spectacularly to get the best out of them. We're seeing how good our players can be now with Ole and Mike taking over.
The bold part - What on earth are you on about? If Sanchez is earning approx €25m per season and he signed for 4 years, do the math. It means Sanchez will set us back at least €100m, it will likely be a lot more though.
Keita was approx €52m, with an annual salary of approx €6m on a 5 year deal. So €30m in wages over 5 years (One year of Sanchez wage is nearly as much as all 5 of Keita's) with €52m transfer fee.
Now tell me again, that Sanchez is "very cheap compared to flop like Naby Keita".
When you decide to deal in reality and not fantasty football and factor in wages (money ball) you'll see what I'm saying is correct and you're comments aren't based in anything other than a biased agenda against the United board with little to no evidence to support your claims.
Not that I'm a fan of McTominay, he is clearly liked and management see something in him many supporters don't and have kept him at the club for now at least, there is a possibility that he was kept at the club to drive up a sale price.
Whilst I do agree that we need to off load deadwood, that isn't solely on the board, much of that is on the managers. It's funny cause LVG cut a load of players and supports sulked about players going, but when they are kept we get the same whinging still. Fact is Jose stated repeatedly he wanted to keep all his players (an exact quote at least twice in his final year here). The board won't go selling players unless the manager requests it so, same way they often won't rush to invest either without the managers agreement.
It's amazing how few supporters don't understand the common sense side of transfers. It's a bit of give and take between manager and Chief Exec at the club. Hence there was clear fall out during the summer as Jose appeared to basically lose the plot and wanted rid of the likes of Martial and Pogba and wanted Perisic and Willian.
I've said it plenty here since signing up, Woodward was making far more sensible football decisions than Jose was recently and its absolutely damning on a self confessed "top manager" like Jose.
Your comments read overly negative and there is little to no positives happening at the club. Basically you probably won't ever be happy with United.
Agree there was some under spending pre 2013, mainly the 09-13 period. Prior to that, Fergie had a very solid team and didn't need huge investments when he had VDS, Evra, Rio, Vidic, Giggs, Scholes, Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo etc etc...
Ed Woodward isn't fit to make the calls at this club. Not the ones involving football.
Commercially this guy is a genius without a doubt.
But football wise, it's criminal that the biggest football club in the world with history of great attacking football appointed 3 obselete dull defensive manager in a row that made watching Man Utd a torture to the fans worldwide.
Whatever way you spin it, Woody should not be anywhere near football side of things in the club.
But football wise, it's criminal that the biggest football club in the world with history of great attacking football appointed 3 obselete dull defensive manager in a row that made watching Man Utd a torture to the fans worldwide.
Whatever way you spin it, Woody should not be anywhere near football side of things in the club.