Surely, that's a pretty poor reflection on his coaching ability if he can't get a team of international footballers containing 3 of his own signings to respond to his instructions.
Dirty, negative football
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Who says that's what he wanted in those games? You're quoting a lot of games that hapoened in a very busy period. Look at Swansea, we just weren't good enough. We didn't score and sit back, we scored and under performed in the exact same manner as we did before the goal.
Arsenal is bullshit. That wasn't a defensive performance, it was a poor game of football between a shit Arsenal and our sub bench but that doesn't mean a thing in the long run.
We'll go out v Spurs and will probably lose with our reserves, it'll mean those reserves aren't good enough rather than having a defensive mindset.
If anything we've played more attacking football towards the end of games because we are always chasing goals. There are very few games where we've sat back because we haven't scored the goals to get into that position.
We are in a vicious cycle at the moment. As we have missed so many chances our team is less confident about being able to close out games. You can see the fear. The lack of belief that 1-0 will become 2-0 leads us to get sucked into defending what we've got, instead of trying to go forward. We don't have the confidence to control games and keep playing until the end.
Our side is not comprised of winners. A lot of the players have mid-level experience. They are not used to crunch games. They are not accustomed to the pressure of needing to win. For a lot of them the 'target' since they came to United has been fourth. Very few of our squad remembers the Ferguson days. The expectation that you win week in week out.
Our side is not comprised of winners. A lot of the players have mid-level experience. They are not used to crunch games. They are not accustomed to the pressure of needing to win. For a lot of them the 'target' since they came to United has been fourth. Very few of our squad remembers the Ferguson days. The expectation that you win week in week out.
Exactly this.
You are failing to look at the bigger picture. The complaint is that he is always doing this against most teams. Had he allowed the team to be a little forward thinking then tomorrow they would have adhered to his instructions of pushing ahead a little. His instructions mostly seem to revolve around disrupting the opposition's play. His coaching especially in the attacking half leaves a lot to be desired.
If that Arsenal performance was not defensive then what was it. Only after conceding did we try to change our approach and it did not work. We set up the same way we did yesterday, the same way we do in any match where the opposition might cause problems. We have good players of our own, be a little positive and don't play them like DM's and we will dispatch these minnows with ease.
That's the thing, only 3 were his signings. It's not his team.
We vastly overrate our squad and it colours our ability to see the big picture.
This time last year we were resigned to the fact Martial would be a Balon Dor winner who would move to Spain one day.
I read a post saying how our second string should be foaming at the mouth to come in and perform so injuries and fatigue shouldn't be a factor. As if our squad is so powerful that our reserves can come in and perform better than our first choice 11. Barca can't even do that.
Romero
Darmian
Fellaini
Blind
Herrera
Lingard
Rashford
I know Romero is by choice but thats 7 out of 11 players that aren't good enough (Rashford as of yet) to start for any other elite or top side in Europe. Teams who contain those players will never routinely smash mid table sides. They simply aren't winners.
Our side has no flexibility at all to work with.
People seeing what they want to see. Its natural for a team to fall back when the opposition has the ball in your half. If they don't they will concede and all the einsteins on here will rip Jose and the team to shreds for not putting in a shift and defending.
Nothing dirty about the way we have play either, not like were doing leg breaking tackles every game.
Nothing dirty about the way we have play either, not like were doing leg breaking tackles every game.
Are people really enjoy watching United play like West Bromwich at home against an average la Liga side after spending 150M in the summer and bought practically the best Bundesliga player, best Calcio player, best Ligue 1 player and one of the best defender in Spain, and having one of the most expensive squad in the world?
We actually look like a very expensive Tony Pullis side! If we continue like this, i don't see us attracting new young fans around the world and we'll soon lose some marketability.
We actually look like a very expensive Tony Pullis side! If we continue like this, i don't see us attracting new young fans around the world and we'll soon lose some marketability.
Goodness me. This is actually beyond satire how far you're prepared to go in slating our players to defend Mourinho.
But beyond that, regardless of how terrible you think all of our players are you must surely accept that they are at least able to follow and understand the tactical instructions of a manager. For example, most of these players were involved in Jose's tactical masterclass at home to Chelsea when they were clearly able to carry out his instructions. Similarly, the same players operated in a very different style under our previous manager.
Surely you must understand that our style of play is on some level dictated by our manager?
Jose Mourinho is a bang average manager and his defensive tactics are the reason we are doing so poor this season. Never mind the countless draws we've had at home that we dominated and missed sitters in every game, back then it wasnt that he was too defensive but he needed an attacking coach to teach the players how to finish.
It couldnt be possible be that the manager tried to play attacking football and the players couldnt finish to save their lives. So he went back to basics and built from the back. Guardiola tried to play tika taka and his team were shite at it; so he doesnt obsess over passing out from the back anymore, and doesnt go mental when his players take pot shots from outside the box.
sarcasm at the beginning for you numpties
It couldnt be possible be that the manager tried to play attacking football and the players couldnt finish to save their lives. So he went back to basics and built from the back. Guardiola tried to play tika taka and his team were shite at it; so he doesnt obsess over passing out from the back anymore, and doesnt go mental when his players take pot shots from outside the box.
sarcasm at the beginning for you numpties
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Why not try to get your points accross without saying someone else's views are 'a load of nonsense'? Let's have a mature conversation.
I'm wondering: so the same team that 'dominated' Celta de Vigo away last week, was actually asked by the same manager who coached them to sit back and play total nonsense? As in, he asked them to fail to do the most basic things in football just to prove he is a tactical genius? Brilliant.
There is a clear difference between poor tactics and poor quality play/players. Monaco's tactics against Juve were poor but you could see that the Monaco boys could play football. Barca's tactics were poor against Juve but you could see that the Barca boys could tap. When Atletico was beaten by Real last week, we could all see that it was just a bad day at the office for those boys.
It is totally different thing if you can't string three passes together repeatedly, you can't beat the man in front of you, you can't keep the ball, you can't make the right decisions on the pitch etc. These have nothing to do with tactics at a top pro level of the game.
I am convinced that even if we get the brains of Ancellotti, Klopp, Allegri, Wenger, Pochetino, Conte, Guardiola and Jose, mix them up, put them into one guy's head and make him the manager of these boys, not much will change. There are three possible realities here in my opinion: 1. The manager is really crap (it will take a whole lot to convince me that Jose Mourinho has suddenly become a real crappy manager) 2. Many of the players are simply having a poor season for whatever reasons (possible). 3. Many of the players are just not good enough (My take).
José has done very well in his career to make this argument largely redundant. Seems to be on his way to doing that again.
Yes, Jose Mourinho is bang average.
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He is really a bang average manager.
It will be interesting to have your list of top class managers and the poor ones.
If in may a team parks the bus it's not because they're not paying attention to the guy on the sideline but because they're not trained properly to do anything else. If Mourinho didn't want this he should have worked on it since august, it's not work that can be done from the touchline during the match.
We're going to see a >£400 million team without philosophy nonsense against a <£20 million team with a philosophy. The fact that they are on the same stage could tell you something about the value of a philosophy.
Don't know why you bothered answering him.
I am all for attacking football but yesterday there was a need to protect our 2-0 lead in the tie overall. But in the overall scheme of things, this team needs to play in a more attacking way against good teams.
That's the worry I have for next season. If we get into the CL, for sure José is going to bring in big names by spending another £300m. I still don't have confidence that the man will not play these awful tactics adjust a half decent. If we can't overpower a team in the first 15 mins, I can see retreating back into our shell looking for a break.
Oh, the thought of Griezmann at LB.
Not the first post from you that made me wonder if Van Gaal was posting on the caf but definitely the most convincing...
Bernardo Silva as RB, Griezmann as LB, Lukaku as DM in place of Fellaini. All hail these supreme tactics. And if these fail, he will get Lingard to save us.
Why on earth would you want to replace Fellaini? He's clearly key to our manager's strategy.
Obviously yes. He asked them to sit back and protect the lead. As a result we dropped deeper and deeper as the game progressed. This was blatantly obvious during the entire game. Jose has form for this so not sure why the incredulity at the suggestion.
Now if you want bury your head in the sand and pretend our players aren't good enough to play attacking football against Celta Vigo at home you're welcome to it.
We weren't dirty last night, i think we got bullied and am surprised at how often that happens. We looked scared of them and Celta played with far more aggression which contributed to their performance. We were setup to defend the lead whereas Celta were setup to give their all and in fairness to them, at least they went out trying and gave everything.
For me we have got worse throughout the season, the performances and the players general attitude has declined and its a worry for next season. If anything you would expect the performance levels and cohesion in the team to improve as Mourinho worked more with them but we look to be getting worse.
For me we have got worse throughout the season, the performances and the players general attitude has declined and its a worry for next season. If anything you would expect the performance levels and cohesion in the team to improve as Mourinho worked more with them but we look to be getting worse.
I think you missed my sarcasm mate, i made it obvious by explaining how the season actually played out. Jose trusted the team to play attacking football at home and they fell on their asses. I was also making fun of posters that think Jose is just a Tony Pulis with money; because its obvious that he's a level above them when it comes to coaching. I'm new to the caf so i haven't got my white text game on point.
I think you missed my sarcasm mate, i made it obvious by explaining how the season actually played out. Jose trusted the team to play attacking football at home and they fell on their asses. I was also making fun of posters that think Jose is just a Tony Pulis with money; because its obvious that he's a level above them when it comes to coaching. I'm new to the caf so i haven't got my white text game on point.
Oh,goodness me! I missed the sarcasm mate.
I thought you were one of 'them'.
Nice to have you here.
Not for beating Ajax - but for winning the league cup, and then winning the europa league with so many keyplayers out injured. I am not a big fan of Mourinho, but he deserves a lot of credit if he picks up those trophies despite not getting the team to play as they should
We still have a stench of Van Gaals philosophy on us. A few observations from yesterday.
Herrera continues to make pointless passes back to the person who passed it to him, very rarely is there a quick turn and pass forward.
Lingard is not is not is not good enough for the starting 11, a nothing player in my opinion.
Rashford looks wrecked, definately needs a nice holiday. Needs to learn to compete in the air and hold that ball up for support, that part of his game is an embarrassment.
My guilty pleasure in this team is Fellaini, always a liability and far to slow but he has a purpose and I hope he is kept in the summer.
Is there any other player that blows hot and cold more than Blind?.
Pogba needs to release the ball faster. Stop fecking around and make that pass which takes out the three players on you're ass. In his defense no one really shows up for him in a positive position.
If Mkhitarian had more pace and a quicker start from a turn the guy would be phenomenal. Some of his runs yesterday were world fecking class but again no one within 15 yards to pass to and no one overlapping, that would be you Darmian.
Romero is the best backup keeper in Europe and if De Gea leaves and we get a seasoned CB who can play with his brain we have a nice cushion until the right guy comes along.
One of Smalling or Jones is gone. I want Smalling as we would get more of a fee and he looks like a Great Dane playing with a tennis ball every time he has the ball at his feet.
Martial needs to fecking sort his shit out. What a disgraceful season. Regardless of the lack of game time which is on him, not the manager, the opportunities he has had have not been good enough. Private life turmoil and second season syndrome are valid excuses but if it's not there next season, good bye.
We have been playing shit for five years now. The trauma of Moyes and the robotic, uninspiring and pointless football drilled in to the squad from Van Gaal is still evident. The amount of good runs being made but the guy on the ball refusing to take that risk is the story of our attacking play. Mourinho will sort it out. We are pretty solid around the park except for goals. A striker, Greizmann and if it was me I would sell Rooney and buy back Chicharito this summer would be a great start. We need someone clinical and quick in the box to turn those draws in to wins. I have complete confidence in Jose and the United bank account to fix this and with a complete pre season in the best place for pre season in my opinion we should be set up nicely.
I also want to see a Chelsea performance from our guys in the final as it's the most important game this club will play in the last five years.
Herrera continues to make pointless passes back to the person who passed it to him, very rarely is there a quick turn and pass forward.
Lingard is not is not is not good enough for the starting 11, a nothing player in my opinion.
Rashford looks wrecked, definately needs a nice holiday. Needs to learn to compete in the air and hold that ball up for support, that part of his game is an embarrassment.
My guilty pleasure in this team is Fellaini, always a liability and far to slow but he has a purpose and I hope he is kept in the summer.
Is there any other player that blows hot and cold more than Blind?.
Pogba needs to release the ball faster. Stop fecking around and make that pass which takes out the three players on you're ass. In his defense no one really shows up for him in a positive position.
If Mkhitarian had more pace and a quicker start from a turn the guy would be phenomenal. Some of his runs yesterday were world fecking class but again no one within 15 yards to pass to and no one overlapping, that would be you Darmian.
Romero is the best backup keeper in Europe and if De Gea leaves and we get a seasoned CB who can play with his brain we have a nice cushion until the right guy comes along.
One of Smalling or Jones is gone. I want Smalling as we would get more of a fee and he looks like a Great Dane playing with a tennis ball every time he has the ball at his feet.
Martial needs to fecking sort his shit out. What a disgraceful season. Regardless of the lack of game time which is on him, not the manager, the opportunities he has had have not been good enough. Private life turmoil and second season syndrome are valid excuses but if it's not there next season, good bye.
We have been playing shit for five years now. The trauma of Moyes and the robotic, uninspiring and pointless football drilled in to the squad from Van Gaal is still evident. The amount of good runs being made but the guy on the ball refusing to take that risk is the story of our attacking play. Mourinho will sort it out. We are pretty solid around the park except for goals. A striker, Greizmann and if it was me I would sell Rooney and buy back Chicharito this summer would be a great start. We need someone clinical and quick in the box to turn those draws in to wins. I have complete confidence in Jose and the United bank account to fix this and with a complete pre season in the best place for pre season in my opinion we should be set up nicely.
I also want to see a Chelsea performance from our guys in the final as it's the most important game this club will play in the last five years.
It's humiliating watching us play like that against opposition we should be tearing apart even with all the injuries. We have so many quality players in the team, yet we cannot string more than 2 passes together. How much more do we have to spend in order to get the team playing at standards befitting a club like United.
I suspect he needs more heavy investments, something around 400£ to get a team that can try play football.
I am surprised seeing people still defending that last performance, it was a shame seeing us play like this against Celta Vigo, I am sure even Everton would try to play and not sit down and defend for 90% of the game! And yet he's the one to come out and complain when teams apply the same tactic against us.
I understand that style doesn't care for some people, but I started to support United because of the attacking football they used to play under SAF, I was proud of this team when I saw them go out and try to outplay teams like Real Madrid in CL, Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool in PL, trying to outplay the greatest Pep's Barcelona even if we lost the 2 CL but we tried! So I'd never stand a manager who is afraid to lose against some mid-table la Liga team and make us a team without any kind of enjoyable philosophy! I'd prefer not to watch a United game again instead of wistenessing the same dross I saw last time! It was painful and humiliating.
Heaven forbid. These are, of course, by far the most important things a football team should seek to achieve.
It's outstanding how short the memories of some fans are, claiming we have played like West Brom all season...
It's possible that they can remember the start of the season as well as our recent games and aren't just clinging on to a period in the middle of the season when we looked slightly better.
Try to explain me then! If you only care about trophies, then good for you; but for me football is about winning in style, that's what Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern try to do, and that is what brings more fans! Many people started supporting Barcelona because Messi and Pep Barcelona because were a joy to watch! Even SAF said we should aspire to play like them, because that's what football is about, make people feel joy and proud! When we won the CL I was proud about that team, when we lost against Barcelona I was proud about them too! But can you really tell me that you were proud about that performance against Celta Vigo at OT?Heaven forbid. These are, of course, by far the most important things a football team should seek to achieve.
Can you tell us how many times we really played good and dominated our opponents? Even when we played good, most of the times was because the opposition decided to defend and give us possession of the ball knowing that we'll do feck all with it and the game usually ended by a draw or a 1-0 victory!
We were playing great football from the season start till the EFL cup final, even when we were getting these frustrating draws we were playing kind of football that if City and Liverpool were playing we will be rising the to the Moon.. The number of games we played bad were counted on one hand fingers.
The problem is, when we play great and not win, fans say " feck performance, we want results ! ", when we play crap but grind a result fans say " feck result, we want performance ! ".
If we're questioning our performance till that EFL cup final want good then it can be either one of these : 1) pessimism from recent performances that masked the whole season. 2) overreaction. 3) agenda. Because I can't find any other reason tbh.
Jose showed at the first half he can play attacking football if he wants. Now he's trying to grind results by his own. I mayn't be agreeing with this but to say most of the season was crap performance then it can't be anything except one of these 3 choices above.
Think you've got a short memory there. Other than a couple of games we were fairly atrocious through September and October.
During this period we played only 2 complete terrible games, Watford and Chelsea. City game was a game of 2 halves , Fenyoord game was played by second string. The other games were ranging from good to great performance, away from the results.
We were
If one thing, I think you can count in one hand how many good performances we did have.
We were atrocious at the start of the season, grinding some results right and left, then came that game against City where we were rightly beaten and get completely outperform! Then we had some good form around November but weren't able to get some victories, instead of blaming our bad and poor finishing, the manager chosed to talk about luck and goalkeeper having the match of their life, then we reverted to the boring and defensive style start the new year!
If one thing, I think you can count in one hand how many good performances we did have.
I don't know when we're we atrocious before the City game. You sure were watching another team because in the first 3 matches in the league we scored 6 goals and conceded only one goal, 2 of these 3 games were away from home.
City game we got outplayed in the first half but we responded well in the second one with Herrera introduction beside Fellaini and Pogba leading us to regain control and could have easily ended in a 2-2 draw which IMO was the deserved result.
And what is Jose responsibility of our strikers not able to finish games which we were dominating in this period ?
We may have score 6 goals, but the performances were average at best and and get carried by the individuality of some players. Goals can't tell the overall view of a game at his own! We beat Celta Vigo over 2 legs by 2-1, can you really say that we were marginally better then them?
City game we got outplayed and came the 2nd half they had already a 2 goal lead decided to try to heart us on counter! Yes the introduction of Herrera brought us control but we almost created nothing as City defended well.
Our strikers not being able to finish their chances might be a result of many circonstances related to their training, management and system which are related to the manager! Hence he's to blame for it.
Our season has been shit because our wings have been shit. Martial has been reduced to a defensive winger who by the time he finds himself in space is to knackered to do anything with it. Having a left back who can't attack or defend hasn't helped his situation at all.
Mkhi is a nothing player who dribbles into a crowd and then goes missing for 20 minutes in a cycle and Mata isn't a winger. Jose needs to fix our wings in both personnel and be braver in terms of balancing attack and defence. We're Manchester United not chelsea.
He hasn't changed the system since Zlatan got injured and often Rashford is isolated and exprected to hold up the ball when surrounded by 4 players. Feels like theres a lot of untapped potential in our front 3 that isn't getting used because the system is fundamentally broken.
Mkhi is a nothing player who dribbles into a crowd and then goes missing for 20 minutes in a cycle and Mata isn't a winger. Jose needs to fix our wings in both personnel and be braver in terms of balancing attack and defence. We're Manchester United not chelsea.
He hasn't changed the system since Zlatan got injured and often Rashford is isolated and exprected to hold up the ball when surrounded by 4 players. Feels like theres a lot of untapped potential in our front 3 that isn't getting used because the system is fundamentally broken.
We were great in South game and completely dominated Hull and should have win by more but we always got those tricky last min games during SAF era otherwise we wouldn't have never heard of fegie time. I told you were sure watching another team at this period.
Regarding Celta yes we were better and completely deserved the result and passing them because ironically people want to forget we dominated them in Spain and missed sitters that could have easily finished the tie from the first leg. They played only good 45 minutes from 180 and suddenly they are better than us ?
City game was a game of 2 halves, they got a brilliant half and we regained control of the other half. Zlatan at this day missed many terrible shots and caused Rashford's Goal to get called offside as he was in the way. I won't mention the sitter at the end of first half which could have ended the first half 2-2 already. ( by the way first half ended by one goal lead not 2 , now I'm sure you wasn't watching the team at this period or have a very short memory, sorry ).
If you think a top class manager will teach players at their prime, some of them are even about to retire, how to score a sitter then you'll be heavily disappointed. Pep himself said he can't teach Aguero how to score goals.
This is not a youth academy where we are teaching kids how to score goals. These are professional footballers.