So you're saying it was never said, in the programme, that he was always behind Giggs?
Defending and denying what they clearly say?!
Balls of steal that takes. Respect pal
Disrespecting the class of 92
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Defending and denying what they clearly say?!
Balls of steal that takes. Respect pal
I wouldn't call it obsession. Just a fair estimation.
Jose has already made subtle digs at the club. It protects his career (legacy and future employability) if he can blame external factors for his failure. It is also known he has a great relationship with Zlatan who is also quite vocal.
Zlatan is an outspoken, cocky guy and certainly egoistic. I doubt if he willingly accepts to be someone's mouthpiece.
My point is different people have different critical opinions about United as a club and our club's ex-players who are pundits now. Need not necessarily mean Jose is instructing them to do or say stuff. Jose can come out with his subtle digs all by himself. Its not difficult for him to get an interview.
The class of 92 has been at United since they were kids and most of them ended their careers there. 2 have gone into management and failed miserably. If they don't speak about United then wtf they can speak about? Does Ibra expect Gaz to speak about the joy of putting a microphone in front of Ole (whose living his wet dream) or does he expect Ryan to speak about how his brother made a buck by ridiculing him on public tv?
These guys were born, they lived and they will probably die remembering about United. They might not be the brightest bulb in football and we might be better off keeping their ideas out of OT but we can't really strip them from speaking about United. They are United. That's something some rent boy like Ibra can't understand.
These guys were born, they lived and they will probably die remembering about United. They might not be the brightest bulb in football and we might be better off keeping their ideas out of OT but we can't really strip them from speaking about United. They are United. That's something some rent boy like Ibra can't understand.
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He played with 3 truly big clubs. He burnt bridges at Juventus, he was kicked out at Barcelona and with us he played just 1 year of good football.
I absolutely love Nevilles tactical insight into the game on MNF, however his sentiments on United are utterly ridiculous at times I find and more importantly can be quite dangerous in that it creates a rhetoric without any real factual basis.
Take his rant about the rumored sacking of Jose earlier this season. He goes on a passionate rant that sacking Jose would be the wrong thing to do, blamed the players throughout and the board more so and stated it was being treated as toy.
In his own words
The basis of his argument is United is a special club and ran a certain way and he wouldn't be entirely wrong, thing is states that the two Sirs should be consulted on all matter of football, but ignores the fact it was common knowledge the two sirs disliked the idea of hiring Jose. He states Jose was being undermined, yet ignores Jose track record with his own purchases. Went on to still say Moyes needed more time and shouldn't of been sacked.
That's just one example of many where Neville is guilty of letting his heart completely over rule common sense.
Take his rant about the rumored sacking of Jose earlier this season. He goes on a passionate rant that sacking Jose would be the wrong thing to do, blamed the players throughout and the board more so and stated it was being treated as toy.
In his own words
A 5 min rant based off nothing more than tabloid gossip. Almost every supporter will slate the tabloids for being clueless and that paper won't refuse ink but ignore that and ran with what Neville was saying, it was a blatant contradiction. Surely Neville must realize he has a very large section of the fan base hanging on his every word and taking what he says as gospel? To state he doesn't care is a bit bonkers for me anyway.
The basis of his argument is United is a special club and ran a certain way and he wouldn't be entirely wrong, thing is states that the two Sirs should be consulted on all matter of football, but ignores the fact it was common knowledge the two sirs disliked the idea of hiring Jose. He states Jose was being undermined, yet ignores Jose track record with his own purchases. Went on to still say Moyes needed more time and shouldn't of been sacked.
That's just one example of many where Neville is guilty of letting his heart completely over rule common sense.
But I'm not saying they have no right to express their views as pundits. I'm saying that if they choose to use their job as a pundit to rant about United like an angry fan, then others have a right to call them up on It.
No one forces Neville or Scholes to be a pundit, and no one forces them to not keep their personal feelings as a United fan and job as a pundit separate.
I can understand the ranting, I just think that if you want to slag off United to the world you can expect some people to have something to say back. Both of them have come out with things that would have induced an angry response if the same views were expressed from a poster on here. I don't see why those views would be treated any differently just because it's Paul Scholes rather than some random United fan from Hull.
I don't think he is wrong. The class of 92 are United supporters and they are entitled to their opinions but unlike us regular supporters they actually have enough influence to actually do something about the state of the club. Zlatan is not wrong in raising the legit question about why they're not doing something to restore the image/identity of the club. Butt is the only one working at the club.
Big fan of this post, well played.
It amazes me how some get so tribal about football and lose all perspective. Class of 92 have become a cornerstone of the club and rightly so, but to take a view that they can't be criticised, or to get offended by people that do criticise them is bonkers.
Shock horror, these guys aren't perfect and can be full rubbish just like everyone else so it's completely normal behaviour for them to be criticised.
Gary Neville is a great example, I admire lots of his tv work and learn about the game from watching him, but when talking about United, my word doesn't he lose the plot at times. He completely forgets that Fergie was the exception rather than the norm.
Mourinho masterminding this? It's Zlatan, Raiola's boy, sticking up for Pogba, another one of Raiola's cash cows first and foremost. He also praises Mourinho a bit, but that wasn't the core point to from the interview (unless I've read something different than some people on here).
Scholes probably wouldn't even manage to match his Cloughesque tenure at Oldham
Just because you played more games for the club doesn't mean you are automatically right
You said
"Ha jesus chill the f**k out, don't bother me where people are from if they make the effort to go to games.
What I can't stand is some muppet who sits in his bedroom, keyboard warrioring the hell out of forums and Twitter, slagging off every man and his dog who have done great things for United, saying his he is massive United fan."
If that's not having a dig at those who don't go to OT, then I don't know what is, lad.
I never understood why people became so overwrought by Scholes calling the boring football of LVG and Mourinho boring. Is there an element of entitlement that influences what that group says about the club? Possibly, and it is hardly surprising.
Neville pissing everyone off always makes me laugh, he loves the club and wants the best for and from it.
Neville pissing everyone off always makes me laugh, he loves the club and wants the best for and from it.
No it wasn’t. In fact one of the stand out bits was Phil running down the right doing step overs and Roy Keane telling him to stop fecking around.So you're saying it was never said, in the programme, that he was always behind Giggs?
Defending and denying what they clearly say?!
Balls of steal that takes. Respect pal
There was literally Zero emphasis on Phil neville playing solely at left back behind Giggs .
I can’t help you when you have a known agenda. You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear.
No one "disrespecting" the CO92 and their achievements for the club, but once they become pundits and criticize (rightly or wrongly) the club, the fans have the right to criticize (rightly or wrongly) back.
So what have the CO92 done in the game after retiring from Man Utd.
Also, Gary thanks for this:
- Gary Neville became a pundit and a failed manager at Valencia. Famous for asking to give managers more time (Moyes and Mourinho in particular).
- Phil Neville became the most annoying commentator and sometimes pundit ever. He failed with United as part of the Moyes regime. Overall, the Nevilles have got this lippiness and uppity attitude that just rubs me the wrong way. Just pipe down you busybodies.
- Giggs was part of the Moyes regime and LVG regime as assistant manager. He was also a caretaker manager winning 2, losing 1 and drawing 1. His overall involvement with United post-retirement has largely been a failure. Ryan does not inspire loyalty, leadership, commitment and dedication into his players, partly because he's got dead reptilian eyes, and partly because he ahem boned his brother's wife.
- Scholes... my most favorite United player ever, partly because I genuinely didn't know what he sounded like. As a pundit he's been scathing on the club (mostly rightly rather than wrongly), but then again he failed with Oldham.
- Nicky Butt has been working at the academy, and has been doing well.
- Becks is busy working on Inter Miami FC.
Oldham failed Scholes.
What Scholes and Neville said during the LVG and Mourinho reign never bothered me. Actually it made me happy, because people who know United so well confirmed what we all knew. That it was not worthy of Manchester United. It’s like being depressed and finally speaking to someone who understand you. Sometimes you need to get told what you need to hear, not what you want to make a change.
Ah yes, the known agenda Bollocks people like you spout at people to try and validate your opinion and make yourself feel superior. A well known Red Cafe trait.
Up there with the classic "we're not turning to shit, Fergie has set us up for greatness for years to come. Stop knee jerking" malarkey that was spouted around here between 2011 and 2013
Fact is the documentary tried to airbrush Denis Irwin out and that was said about Phil Neville being behind Ryan Giggs. It's not an agenda, it's a fact that I am stating. It's not even an opinion, it's there for all to see and hear
The agenda here is your top red stance. That's fine, knock yourself out but, don't try and paint other people as liars as you do.
It's not cool, pal and it reflects badly on you.
We all want what is best for you. I don't want or need your help pal, we're here to help you through this Zlatan probably just feels he should support a manager he is quite close with and with their link to United out came those comments. Don't think there is much else to it other than that.
Don't think anyone is asking them to stop talking about the club, just doing it in a professional and unbiased way. What we get is the likes of G. Nev going off on 5 mins rants about tabloid gossip. He can always be heard ranting on like he has insider knowledge but rounds out his sentiments by saying but I don't know cause I'm not at the club. But supporters hang on to what he's said in the rant like its the gospel truth.
Class of 92 is the biggest load of marketing BS out there, they should be awarded no additional entitlement than any other former players, P.Neville & Beckham played almost as many games for other clubs as they did for Utd.
This is what I think
a- the class of 92 has every right to voice their opinion. They gave everything to United and they won't be forced to shut up by some ageing mercenary who gave us 12 months of decent football and still think he owed the place
b- like any other mortal being, any critic must be expected to be criticised as well. If Gaz, Scholes or anybody says something silly then they can't expect that it would go unnoticed
c- the class of 92 gave United alot but lets not lose perspective here. First of all United MADE the class of 92. They trained them, they made them millionaires and they kept them even when age was catching up on them. Secondly United is a business so meritocracy must be key.
Yeah, why should players like Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs or Gary Neville get more credit or good will than players like Quinton Fortune or Kieran Richardson?
Regarding Scholes, this is worth a read : https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...choles-became-manchester-uniteds-worst-pundit
There are several evidences of him contradicting himself and acting biased towards his mates. Great player but not a good pundit. People are now criticizing Co 92 the pundits, not the players.
What They have done as a player means nothing when They talk shite as a pundit. Just because someone used to be a very good neighbor for you doesn't mean you'll give them the permission to rob your house now.
There are several evidences of him contradicting himself and acting biased towards his mates. Great player but not a good pundit. People are now criticizing Co 92 the pundits, not the players.
What They have done as a player means nothing when They talk shite as a pundit. Just because someone used to be a very good neighbor for you doesn't mean you'll give them the permission to rob your house now.
Exactly. I mentioned several examples in that Scholes Oldham thread about him contradicting himself but people didn't want to listen. He's a terrible pundit who talks like a fan who got an award to appear in the media rather than him voicing an organized opinion.
I don't know what's people problem with mentioning that him and Neville are terrible pundits overall.
You'll never hear anyone saying anything about someone like Rio as a pundit because he doesn't contradict himself and also doesn't want to act as a neutral in front of the cameras.
I would hardly class a couple of mediocre players like Butt or P.Neville as club greats, Ryan Giggs yes, but he also happens to be a despicable human being.
The fact that Scholes and Neville were not even in the class of 92 is enough to show how silly the brand is .
Or Zlatan has his own mind and mouth
Those mediocre players were part of more title wins than most players and both would start comfortably in our current team. Do you deliberately leave out Scholes and Neville? Very few Utd fans gave a shit about how despicable Giggs was when he was still playing.
I think that says more about the state of our current team than the quality of those two. You're definitely wearing rose tinted classes if you rate either of them as more than average.
Nicky Butt was a better midfielder than he often gets credit for. So Scholes and Gary Neville, were they good enough to earn more good will than Jonathon Spector or not?
They were not winning titles on their own though
As good as Giggs and Scholes,we're in particular I doubt the class of 92 would have won more than a few trophies without Keane ,Cantona,Ronaldo etc
I don't think it's wrong to suggest the likes,of Lingard,Rashford and Pogba etc are as good if not better than Butt becks n Neville
Butt was bang average at best.
Scholes was one of my favourite players, he also happens to be a shit pundit and as it would seem, an even worse manager. Just because you are a club legend doesn't mean your opinion means shit, there are plenty of less high profile ex players that talk a lot more sense.
You`re the only one using that expression.Just because you played more games for the club doesn't mean you are automatically right
Ryan Giggs replied to Zlatan`s snide comments on twitter.
Given he played a huge amount of games for Manchester United and was playing into his 40s, won more than most footballers who play professionally, and also played with others who clocked up many games as part of the most successful team in the Ferguson era, he has the right to address somebody having a go at off his footballing mates on social media.
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Nothing more snide than Neville and Scholes talking on Pogba and Martial either for that matter
Personally I think despicable human beings are those who send others to fight wars they themselves will never go within a million miles of, who commit unspeakable actions against innocents, who are psycopaths virtue signalling while enriching themselves at our expense and behaving in any number of corrupt ways. etc.
Rhodri certainly made hay while the sun shone out of his odd relationship with his wife. Sobbing to the tabloids about how he didn`t know his own wife was having an affair with his brother while getting paid handsomely. Anyone with an iota of perception knew at the time there was a lot not being told. You didn`t know Ryan was with your wife? Really? Where were you Rhodri?
Maybe one day we`ll find out more than the official narrative.
Pogba is a great player when he focuses on being a footballer whose over-paid job it is to play football, but his attitude aired throughout the media continually lost him support from a number of United fans who remember when great players let their feet do the talking and had out their differences mostly behind closed doors.
Martial wasn`t above criticism, either.
Christ, you go at length to defend Giggs's behaviour?
There was always something strange about Rhodri supposedly having no idea his wife was having an affair with his brother. He made a ton of money exploiting his own misery in the tabloids.
I`ve always thought there was something sus about this whole didn`t have a clue from Rhodri. Unless his IQ is moronic level. And yes, I think the word `despicable` is applicable to more serious actions than 2 consenting adults having a secret relationship that certainly can`t be admired in any way but is still their choice.
No they weren’t but then who claimed they did. They were important parts of a squad.
And likewise for Keane, Cantona and Ronaldo. Giggs and Scholes won titles before and after those players.
It would be idiotic to suggest they’re better than somebody like Beckham before they’ve achieved an ounce of what he did. Pogba aside.