Do we want to lose to City?

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I wants what's best for United. My question is, is it better for us if we finish out of the top 4 anyway?
That way we possibly get way more money to spend on transfers to help us get back there like last time.
And if we finish out of the top 4, does that mean we will get players who want to play for us, rather than ones obsessed only by the Champion's League.
Or on the flip side players that are coming only for the money?

That's my dilemma. But I think if we actually identify the players with the right personality for United then it doesn't matter.
So maybe it's better to be out of top 4 and City win the title?

Win-Win.
I'm telling all you Utd fans who want us to beat City, if Liverpool win the league this year, they will only get stronger. Another 3 titles and another couple of European cups in the next few years is more than possible. In a world dominated by social media and commercial sponsorships, this could be a new era of dominance by them. Having lived through it in the 80's , if was a 24hour fecking nightmare.
On the other hand, if they don't win it this year , they may not recover and I can see it falling apart very quickly.

Any other team going for the title, I wouldn't give a feck. But these are our closest rivals in world football. Their fan base is big as our around the world. Their trophy cabinet is big as ours. They are the only club that scares me of dominating and over taking us In the next few years. It took us 25 years to claw them back , I'm not waiting another 25 years just so we can build some confidence with a win over our neighbours.
Just be careful what you wish for.
Combination of these for me.

I grew up in the 70s and agree it was a nightmare having Liverpool winning so much.... their fans :mad::nono: . Also as much as I like the CL (and the money), maybe realism is that right now we're nowhere near the PL title or winning the CL... maybe not ideal but a year in the EL (where we can use squad players as and when) and focus on top.4 next year should be our Step.1. It'll be hard as we'll attract different players but as long as I can see decent football and some progress, I'm ok (ish) with being patient and seeing us truly challenge in say three years. Might be the kick that this club/board needs to realise where we are and put a proper plan in place.... one that isn't a 12-month plan/reactive.
 

Danny

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I'm not convinced it "will" happen soon, their team could be dismantled by Real Madrid come July.

Even if you think they'd win it sooner or later, wouldn't later be much more preferable?
Later would be preferable yes, but at least one of our close rivals will lose out on a title they feel like they are going to lift.
 

lsd

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Funny the Open Letter doesn't mention this:


Didn't do it on purpose the same way he didn't play in Henry with a poor back pass the same year in the Euros.

He was past his best then was a lazy game and he messed up but thats,all it was a stupid lazy error which Drogba read .

Look how hard he played it for one thing no way was passing to Drogba
 

Devil may care

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That open letter is hilarious, wasn't their sections in Anfield with banners urging their team to lose so we wouldn't win the title in '95?
 

Cal?

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Later would be preferable yes, but at least one of our close rivals will lose out on a title they feel like they are going to lift.
City and Liverpool are not at the same level of rivalry with us.
 

Giggs86

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Didn't do it on purpose the same way he didn't play in Henry with a poor back pass the same year in the Euros.

He was past his best then was a lazy game and he messed up but thats,all it was a stupid lazy error which Drogba read .

Look how hard he played it for one thing no way was passing to Drogba
You don't really believe this do you?

If it was another player I might've bought it, but it was fecking slippy camera kissing G. I am 100% positive he did it on purpose, he's liverpool through and through and he knew he had to make sure they lose otherwise they hand us the title.
 

Bestietom

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Is it goodbye to top 4 if we lose.

Arsenal lose to Wolves ( tonight) and then lose again to Leicester. We beat Chelsea on Sunday and they lose again, and we go on to win games against Huddersfield and Cardiff. 73 points can still get 4th place.

It could easily come down to last games of the season to decide top 4 place.

Burnley Versus Arsenal
Leicester Versus Chelsea
Man Utd. Versus Cardiff
 
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Josh 76

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If Utd win, what exactly are we celebrating? 3 points? Local pride ? A little chance of finishing in the top 4? Convincing our selves the players are good enough? Ole getting the better of Pep ? Woodward telling the Glazers we will be fine now ?

We have more to lose if we win.....oh forgot to mention a little thing of those feckers winning the league title with our help aswel.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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The reality is that Liverpool are set to win the league sometime soon. If not this season then soon after. It will happen. It will be horrible but I've come to peace with it.

Not sure why United fans would want United to lose. Plus, at least it would prevent City winning two in a row.
There is no such “reality” at all.When Liverpool won 3 trophies and then finished 2nd in the league under Gerrard Houllier,everybody said that it’s inevitable that he would win the league eventually....it never happened.When Rafa Benitez won the CL and finished 2nd in the league,everyone said it was inevitable that he would win the league....it never happened.

When Brendan finished 2nd,everyone said that it was inevitable that he would win the league and build a dynasty at Liverpool...it never happened.So there is nothing inevitable about Klopp winning the title....If they fail this season,they may not come this close again for the next 2-3 years....and then Klopp leaves,the whole cycle starts again and the wait just gets longer and longer...

So Liverpool winning the league sometime soon is not a “reality”,or an inevitability....
 

Danny

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City and Liverpool are not at the same level of rivalry with us.
I'm not bothered really who wins the league. We aren't going to and haven't even challenged for a number of years. If City win this league you could argue that it could start an era of further dominance, therefore the rivalry will grow even more, whereas I don't feel Liverpool would perhaps be able to sustain being successful over the next 10 years, for instance. Just my opinion on it.
 

Tony Babangida

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Don’t want to lose but not bothered if we do. Obviously don’t want Liverpool winning the league but City winning it isn’t that much better really.

We’ve still got a small chance of making top four if we win. Saying that, we’ve got no chance anyway!
 

JurgensGlasses

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Always remember OGS comments about when Liverpool beat Cardiff, " Couldn't care less about Liverpool "

Gives me a small glimpse of hope... that being said, if the shoe was on the other foot I'd gladly roll over for City.
 

Oyibo

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Is it goodbye to top 4 if we lose.

Arsenal lose to Wolves ( tonight) and then lose again to Leicester. We beat Chelsea on Sunday and they lose again, and we go on to win games against Huddersfield and Cardiff. 73 points can still get 4th place.
I agree with everything you say : however we can get 73 points and finish 4th even if we lose tonight
 

poleglass red

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Usually I'd say lose as do not want Liverpool winning it, but if, massive if, we win today and beat Chelsea Sunday, who are beatable, we are at least giving ourselves a chance. I expect a massive rebound tonight from the players, I hope it's not a case of one game then back again to looking uninterested.
 

Siorac

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I'm pretty sure you're not from the UK judging from past conversations in the Brexit thread. It's one thing to share your own opinion but maybe refrain from judging local fans when you clearly don't understand the motives behind their opinions.

Plus your arguments bollocks, people want them to fight but the whole purpose of this thread is that this is an exceptional case.
Can I judge, say, SirAF who happens to be Norwegian? Can I judge Spielmacher who is from Austria? Can I judge all the Irish people on the Caf, or do they get a pass despite not being from the UK?

More importantly, can you please feck off with your pretentious, condescending gatekeeping? I understand you probably want foreign fans to crawl away and leave your United alone but it's not a very nice sentiment to share on a public forum.

You're not alone in this, of course - it seems to be a go-to argument when those pesky foreigners dare to express disagreement: "you just don't understand!". Here's the thing though: no football rivalry is that special. Yeah, not even United v Liverpool. Almost every country with rich footballing traditions can boast of at least one similar rivalry. The historical background might be different (though it is often rooted in, say, the rivalry between two cities) but they still work the same way: losing to the other is the worst nightmare of both sets of fans while a win means bragging rights, at least until the next time. All fans experience that gut-wrenching fear and anxiety before and during these games. This works the same everywhere, be that Boca v River, Barcelona v Real Madrid, Celtic v Rangers, Ajax v Feyenoord, Ferencváros v Újpest, or Steaua v Dinamo.

So yeah, the notion that the weirdo foreigners just don't understand it is incredibly condescending and rooted in some sort of "football fan exceptionalism". It's a football rivalry, not rocket science.
 

DAV771

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Turning into a bit of a nationality debate, this. A foreign fans opinion is just as valid as a fan born on the doorstep of Old Trafford. Get off your high horses.

Any, back on topic, this ones got 0-0 written all over it.
 

Cal?

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I'm not bothered really who wins the league. We aren't going to and haven't even challenged for a number of years. If City win this league you could argue that it could start an era of further dominance, therefore the rivalry will grow even more, whereas I don't feel Liverpool would perhaps be able to sustain being successful over the next 10 years, for instance. Just my opinion on it.
City will be there or thereabouts until the sheikh gets bored. The same cannot be said of Liverpool.
 

United Hobbit

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If the players turn up for this after that shocking weekend debacle, beat City and possibly Chelsea then go and lose after playing poorly against Huddersfield and Cardiff serious questions should be asked
 

KristianMackle

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City could well do the domestic treble. Why are people more ok with that than Liverpool winning the league?

But more importantly as a supporter of this club, why would you want us to lose in a derby game? And why does Liverpool not winning the title mean more to you than us getting a top 4 spot? It's been 28 years, they were bound to do it at some point.

The idea that us getting top 4 will paper over the cracks is also odd to me. I think Ole knows full well how far of we are no matter what happens in this game. He has been very honest about that. So why not get top 4 and then build from there? Why do people think if we finish outside the top 4, we will magically then be rebuilt into a force to be reckoned with?
 

UTDbornfan

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I'm telling all you Utd fans who want us to beat City, if Liverpool win the league this year, they will only get stronger. Another 3 titles and another couple of European cups in the next few years is more than possible. In a world dominated by social media and commercial sponsorships, this could be a new era of dominance by them. Having lived through it in the 80's , if was a 24hour fecking nightmare.
On the other hand, if they don't win it this year , they may not recover and I can see it falling apart very quickly.

Any other team going for the title, I wouldn't give a feck. But these are our closest rivals in world football. Their fan base is big as our around the world. Their trophy cabinet is big as ours. They are the only club that scares me of dominating and over taking us In the next few years. It took us 25 years to claw them back , I'm not waiting another 25 years just so we can build some confidence with a win over our neighbours.
Just be careful what you wish for.
Very well said, couldn't be more accurate.
 

crossy1686

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I’m 100% at peace with us not making the champions league. We can focus on the league, play the kids in Europa and sign some fecking decent players who aren’t only here for champions league.
 

SirAF

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I’m 100% at peace with us not making the champions league. We can focus on the league, play the kids in Europa and sign some fecking decent players who aren’t only here for champions league.
It’s not the end of the world. If OGS play his hand right (ie blooding the kids) he’ll get a week to prepare for most league matches.
 

shamans

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Turning into a bit of a nationality debate, this. A foreign fans opinion is just as valid as a fan born on the doorstep of Old Trafford. Get off your high horses.

Any, back on topic, this ones got 0-0 written all over it.
You could argue a foreign fan is more of a United supporter than one born into it/the city. Man United is the club it is because of foreign support.
 

adexkola

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So, you're saying your opinion isn't as valid as a fan from Manchester? :confused:
I consider it arrogant to think my opinion, as someone who is yet to visit Old Trafford, holds the same weight as the opinion of someone who is more invested in the history of the club, rivalries included.

That's just my viewpoint though. I don't care as much about the rivalry. But it's pretty important. Our greatest manager thought it was. The conflicted nature of supporters closer to the action is a reflection of that, and I won't dismiss it just because I can't relate.
 

Smores

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Turning into a bit of a nationality debate, this. A foreign fans opinion is just as valid as a fan born on the doorstep of Old Trafford. Get off your high horses.

Any, back on topic, this ones got 0-0 written all over it.
Why would a foreign fan understand a local rivalry of another country? :houllier:

I support a couple of foreign teams and I'd feel like an idiot even trying to discuss local issues. People don't have to hold equal opinion about every subject you know.
 

RobinLFC

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Why would a foreign fan understand a local rivalry of another country? :houllier:

I support a couple of foreign teams and I'd feel like an idiot even trying to discuss local issues. People don't have to hold equal opinion about every subject you know.
That still doesn't mean you're less of a United fan or a bad supporter if you'd want United to win today. Arguments like "you're not a United fan if you want to win tonight", especially made by foreigners, are just stupid ones.