I don’t know what the difference between a legally committed crime & an illegally committed crime is.
Asking for what your definition is of them; can you give me an example or two of each?
Do you agree with the protest today?
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Asking for what your definition is of them; can you give me an example or two of each?
Ditto!
Fully agree with the principle of the protest, essentially what the fans set out to do. A massive, exuberant protest exclusively outside the stadium would have done though. The point is to achieve publicity, good for the fans/protesters and bad for the owners, by shedding light on how awful we have been run since 2005. The capital taken out with nothing put in, the total ignoring of the fans, hiring bankers to make footballing decisions etc.
When people start launching cameras, storming into the dressing room and breaking Covid bubbles, and attacking policemen innocently doing their jobs, then it’s too far. That turns a proper protest into a riot. Those who stormed the stadium and attacked the people and equipment inside were simply inhumane and a total disappointment. I can already see the coverage by Glazer puppet journalists in the next few days, painting the Glazers as victims to hooliganism. A lot of bad press which was meant for the Glazers has now been shifted to all United fans because of the actions of a few dozen idiots.
Also, I see people painting the stormtroopers getting the biggest game in England postponed as a victory. Yes, it shows the power of fans, but our protests getting the Super League cancelled is a better expression of that. Otherwise, it really isn’t. The Glazers probably did not even know we were playing today and will file this as water under the bridge when they are informed of it, a one-off thing.
What next for those people? Do this every game? The only thing that will happen if they do that is that we will either be docked points or not be able to fulfil fixture requirements and go down. Also, think of Ole and the players. Imagine preparing for matches all week and then not being able to play, followed by getting relegated because some clowns ‘decide when they play’ (really dislike that phrase as it brings the players, who clearly dislike the ownership as much as we do, into the situation). Let’s be honest, if they don’t continue, which they obviously shouldn’t because of the aforementioned repercussions, the only thing they’ve done today is further congest our fixture schedule. As for the fans who protested peacefully and properly, I can’t say how proud I am of you. You have actually played a part in trying to put our parasitic owners under a bad spotlight. You are proper United fans, and if I came from and lived in Manchester, I would have loved to be a part of you guys today.
So, back to my original point, I agree with the protest as a way to generate bad press towards the Glazers, but that will only play a small part in getting them out. If we are truthful, the best and possibly only way to get them out of our club without harming ourselves as fans, Ole and the players is with a complete boycott. Local fans don’t renew season tickets, fans from abroad don’t buy one off match tickets and the gift shop becomes a constant scene of desolation. If there’s minimal revenue, that maximises the chance of the Glazers selling up as there would be no point in holding on.
When people start launching cameras, storming into the dressing room and breaking Covid bubbles, and attacking policemen innocently doing their jobs, then it’s too far. That turns a proper protest into a riot. Those who stormed the stadium and attacked the people and equipment inside were simply inhumane and a total disappointment. I can already see the coverage by Glazer puppet journalists in the next few days, painting the Glazers as victims to hooliganism. A lot of bad press which was meant for the Glazers has now been shifted to all United fans because of the actions of a few dozen idiots.
Also, I see people painting the stormtroopers getting the biggest game in England postponed as a victory. Yes, it shows the power of fans, but our protests getting the Super League cancelled is a better expression of that. Otherwise, it really isn’t. The Glazers probably did not even know we were playing today and will file this as water under the bridge when they are informed of it, a one-off thing.
What next for those people? Do this every game? The only thing that will happen if they do that is that we will either be docked points or not be able to fulfil fixture requirements and go down. Also, think of Ole and the players. Imagine preparing for matches all week and then not being able to play, followed by getting relegated because some clowns ‘decide when they play’ (really dislike that phrase as it brings the players, who clearly dislike the ownership as much as we do, into the situation). Let’s be honest, if they don’t continue, which they obviously shouldn’t because of the aforementioned repercussions, the only thing they’ve done today is further congest our fixture schedule. As for the fans who protested peacefully and properly, I can’t say how proud I am of you. You have actually played a part in trying to put our parasitic owners under a bad spotlight. You are proper United fans, and if I came from and lived in Manchester, I would have loved to be a part of you guys today.
So, back to my original point, I agree with the protest as a way to generate bad press towards the Glazers, but that will only play a small part in getting them out. If we are truthful, the best and possibly only way to get them out of our club without harming ourselves as fans, Ole and the players is with a complete boycott. Local fans don’t renew season tickets, fans from abroad don’t buy one off match tickets and the gift shop becomes a constant scene of desolation. If there’s minimal revenue, that maximises the chance of the Glazers selling up as there would be no point in holding on.
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The football stadium is the symbol of a football club. If you let that rot, it's symbolic of how they've taken care of the club.
Remember why Klopp rejected us? We're not run as a sporting entity but as a business.
What the Glazers have done to this club is similar to what private venture capitalists have been doing to other companies for years. Pile on the debt, suck out the cash and then throw away the husk.
My main problem with your opinion is that it's based on choosing the lesser evil when we don't know the other evil will necessarily will be greater. We might get genuine change but starting out with this defeatist attitude just won't let us get anywhere.
Btw, I am also a continental nowadays although I've spent some serious time in the UK and that's when I learned how important football is for some of these people.
I agree with it. As expected there were some that took it too far but I think the message was put across very clearly. I doubt the Glazers will sell but it's a more effective and louder approach than green and gold or a select few not buying club merchandise or tickets.
Yes but not any damaging of the stadium or attacking police.
Ditto
This is about the future of our club. Despite the Glazer media campaign it was 99% peaceful. if it takes games to be postponed, a points deduction so be it.
We can't give up, no matter the cost.
Look at what happened to Leeds and City, they went down to League 2 and are now stronger than ever.
We can't give up, no matter the cost.
Look at what happened to Leeds and City, they went down to League 2 and are now stronger than ever.
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I know not all Americans are Glazerites. American fans need to protest too. Your Sarcasm here is not exactly working because American intrusion, because American cultural hegemony and American values are part of the problem. Yes, British lawmakers didn’t regulate. They are as much to blame. But ...
Then there are the spooky Glazer apologists, the sowers of dissent and confusion. I know the club was floated. I know you can’t blame business men for being business men. Sharks for being sharks. Forgive me, you may love the club as much/more than I do, but maybe understandable that a little bit of American-itis has set in this side of the pond.
I told you. The Glazers bought the club using loans secured against the value of the club in order to profit from the club. This is a legal crime.
The club had never heard of debt since 1931, and were plunged £500M in debt overnight when the the Glazers purchased the majority shares. And between £1B - £2B of revenue has gone into the Glazers pockets from all the marketing and dividends since 2005.
Bye now
That not a ‘crime,’ though.
If we’re going to discuss the morality or ethics of that maneuver, that’s one thing, but it wasn’t an illegal acquisition. It wasn’t a crime that was committed.
Sure.
This is like the 5th time you’ve posted this. No. Stop.
Legal crime legitimized by The FA, Premier League, and UK government....they allowed it to happen. There is another massive part of the protests, and it is doing what it takes to get these governing bodies to enact change for football ownership.
So you're basically saying that if a crime has been committed legally against something dear to your heart, it's ok?
Don’t disagree with this at all.
The maneuver the Glazers used to acquire the club was very unsavory & smacked of raw American greed & gaming the system. I would gladly take any scrupulous owner other than the Glazers / want the Glazers to have as much vested interest in United as they do the Buccaneers. Seeing how influential the Glazers have been in the recent years with the Bucs, yet how detached they are from United is hard to stomach.
The thing with protests is that they're usually about more serious matters than football, and so even if they accidentally turn violent it can be somewhat justified. For instance if a government is oppressing it's people, then a peaceful protest turning violent can be understood a'la George Floyd.
The problem is the same cannot be said for a matter as ultimately trivial as football, so it's difficult to condone the violence.
The problem is the same cannot be said for a matter as ultimately trivial as football, so it's difficult to condone the violence.
As long as it's peaceful, yes.
Totally agree with why the protest too place, don't agree with the violence that took place, kids throwing bottles and flares, Police needing emergency surgery for a slash injury, that's just wrong.
The,Glaziers won't care, they don't care that is clear.
Unfortunately today will not be seen in any good light.
Protest like this rarely if ever bring change.
The,Glaziers won't care, they don't care that is clear.
Unfortunately today will not be seen in any good light.
Protest like this rarely if ever bring change.
Beautiful
See this is what today will bring and nothing more, United fans classed as thugs.
I agree with it but it not gonna make them leave unless it happens every week and also i wouldve prefered to watch united play today tbh
Yes, fully.
I hope there is another one at every home game for the rest of the season.
I hope there is another one at every home game for the rest of the season.
Yes but any "wholesome" football message of wanting the club back was lost when pictures of that injury surfaced and the trouble with the police.
People will just look at it as a bunch of idiot hooligans doing idiot hooligan things and given what happened, they won't be wrong in their thinking.
People will just look at it as a bunch of idiot hooligans doing idiot hooligan things and given what happened, they won't be wrong in their thinking.
It’s not a ‘crime.’ Stop using that word.
It’s definitely immoral & unethical, but there were mechanisms in place to allow it to happen.
It’s an absolute shame that it happened & I would love to have other owners right now or have the current owners have as much positive impact on United as they do the Buccaneers. I said if I was in Manchester today, I definitely would have been at the protest outside the stadium.
It feels criminal what they did & have done since they took over the club, but it’s not a crime.
I can’t really answer your questions without seeing what happened or being there. I don’t have any issue with the fans getting into OT and protesting in general. And I don’t think separating the actions of one person from a group is a strawman.
If violence happened, that sucks, but if it’s one guy that’s belted a policeman, I don’t find it difficult to put that down to one guy being a twat. It doesn’t discredit the other 300 that were in the stadium and didn’t use any violence.
Same as when I’ve seen police use their battons on peaceful protesters in BLM protests, or kill the bill protests. I didn’t blame the whole police force.
Well done. When the oligarchy won't listen and uses the club as a cash cow, stronger methods than social media hastags and banners are needed.
Its important to point out that nobody who is in favour of the protest has said they condone aggression/violence towards staff, police, bystanders or anyone. It's also important that the narrative here isn't dominated by the acts of a tiny percentage of those who turned out.
For years I've seen posters question what fans can actually do to make the Glazers take notice. Well today fans have shown what power they do have. I see some already saying the Glazers will take no notice. Nobody knows for sure whether they will or won't but I think this represents an action of solidarity from supporters in attempt to wrestle some power back. Will it ultimately be futile? Maybe. But this is ordinary people going up against the super rich, the relatively powerless, going up against the relatively powerful. There's no easy solution. Theres a certain element on here who would always find an excuse for doing nothing.
Another proposal you often see is boycotting a match, or leaving early. Well you can't do that when there are no crowds allowed.
It's easy to find fault from the comfort of your armchair, disappointed that you won't get to see your team play. But the 99.99% of protesters today, who did nothing violent, will always have my support.
For years I've seen posters question what fans can actually do to make the Glazers take notice. Well today fans have shown what power they do have. I see some already saying the Glazers will take no notice. Nobody knows for sure whether they will or won't but I think this represents an action of solidarity from supporters in attempt to wrestle some power back. Will it ultimately be futile? Maybe. But this is ordinary people going up against the super rich, the relatively powerless, going up against the relatively powerful. There's no easy solution. Theres a certain element on here who would always find an excuse for doing nothing.
Another proposal you often see is boycotting a match, or leaving early. Well you can't do that when there are no crowds allowed.
It's easy to find fault from the comfort of your armchair, disappointed that you won't get to see your team play. But the 99.99% of protesters today, who did nothing violent, will always have my support.
Incidentally, I assuming those (like me) who are in favour of the protests won't be handing the Glazers their money by buying jerseys or attending games any time soon?
Why, we are allowed free speech, don't agree with the violence, 100 % with the protest
By the Telegraph? Naturally.
Especially with reports that Adidas are not to happy with shirt sales recently.
Really need to hit them where it hurts.
I don’t buy shirts for me (not since I was young) but I do often buy my kid one each season so I am guilty, he will be getting a fake one for next season for sure
Fair enough, but that’s unfortunately not going to be how the protest is probably going to be viewed & marketed externally. The takeaway images will be the cop with the bandage, the flare shooting up to the press area, the fracas outside. This was all done by a very small percentage of the protestors, but it was done nonetheless.
And that could muddle the message & tarnish the impact which will be a shame.
Or because their afternoon got ruined and their worried we might not get their muppet signing in the summer because of the bad vibes.
Rape analogy
Neville sums it up. Numbers don't lie. Glazers have raped the club, invested zero and we are miles behind clubs at the top end. Fans have had enough.
You’re being very intentionally obtuse
The man has said he disagrees with what they did, thinks it is unethical, etc. What else do you want here?
It quite literally wasn’t a criminal activity. You admitted to that yourself.
Weird that you can’t see / don’t know the difference between those terms & you apparently consider them interchangeable.
Not everything immoral or unethical is illegal.