altodevil
Odds winner of 'Odds or Evens 2023/2024'
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2013
- Messages
- 17,676
Barring the idiotic violence in small spurts - absolutely. Disruption without violence is key. Some nobs jumping on cars and throwing shit ruin it a bit.
noun: crime; plural noun: crimesIt’s not a ‘crime.’ Stop using that word.
It’s definitely immoral & unethical, but there were mechanisms in place to allow it to happen.
It’s an absolute shame that it happened & I would love to have other owners right now or have the current owners have as much positive impact on United as they do the Buccaneers. I said if I was in Manchester today, I definitely would have been at the protest outside the stadium.
It feels criminal what they did & have done since they took over the club, but it’s not a crime.
so the fans were heroes two weeks ago but they are "disgraceful" today? Embarrassing journalism.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Isn't it the other way around?You’re being very intentionally obtuse
The man has said he disagrees with what they did, thinks it is unethical, etc. What else do you want here?
It quite literally wasn’t a criminal activity. You admitted to that yourself.
But not everything evil, shameful, or wrong is illegal. Let’s not just cherry-pick one definition of a crime.noun: crime; plural noun: crimes
[...]
an action or activity considered to be evil, shameful, or wrong.
I am from Brazil, and agree completely. And go one step further, what happened today is very mild compared to a lot of protests not only here, but in all South America.The other thread is more of a running commentary. I'm interested to see how many of our fanbase on here support the protests and the ground invasion, maybe with a poll. And also how where you live influences the answer.
I 100% support them. Not the bottle throwing and violence, but just waving a few flags around and asking nicely achieves nothing. We needed to make a stronger statement and we've done it.
Up and down. When they took over the Buccaneers, the franchise was one of the worst and lowest valued in the NFL at around $200m. Now they’ve won 2 Super Bowls and are valued at around $1.5 billion. There were 20 years of bad performances in between the Super Bowls that caused folks to start to dislike them, but obviously recent events have changed that a bit.Out of interest to American supporters, what do American football fans think of the Glazers? I know they are probably popular right now as they won the super bowl. But it was many barren years since their previous win. Were Tampa fans also disgruntled?
Look fella... Yes or No. Did the Glazers break a law to buy the club?Isn't it the other way around?
He said it was a criminal act, and I agreed with him. It was a matter of justification.
Go and read the discussion more carefully then get back to me.
I don't understand why you say this when I've agreed with you that from a purely legal perspective, a crime was committed today by the United fans. The Glazers have been immoral and unethical but legal in their involvement with Manchester United.Weird that you can’t see / don’t know the difference between those terms & you apparently consider them interchangeable.
Not everything immoral or unethical is illegal.
Hey JoelLook lads, I understand supporters of the club being upset with what has happened to us. We are used to being champions and now we are just a top-four club being regularly beaten by our closest rivals.
However, I have a different opinion about the glazers... I don't think that they are anywhere near as bad as what this forum has made them out to be, and if anything during their tenure the club has grown massively.
Firstly, there's a lot of criticism for the way the glazers bought our club. In reality, what they did to buy the club was completely legal. They bought the club with leverage, taking a huge risk that the purchase would pay off. If not they would have lost hundreds of millions of dollars.
Then people are also complaining about them saddling us with debt, but they have only taken out around 20 million, which is a tiny fraction of our revenue. The rest of the money has been reinvested into the club, not like Arsenal under Kroenke. We have signed the most expensive CB in the world, and every season we drop at least 100 million quid. How can we possibly complain that that isn't enough? We're second in the league for god sake, having improved from 5th place.
Additionally, them saddling the club with debt isn't really a big deal because interest rates are almost at an all-time low, so it's a great time to take debt.
People wanting this 50+1 thing are basically communists, trying to ruin competition in football. Allowing the mega-wealthy to buy clubs means that we get huge investment into teams like man city and Chelsea have done, making our league even more competitive. This helps bring more fans to the league and increase the standards of football. Otherwise small clubs can only spend the revenue that they have, so they will never challenge the big boys.
At the end of the day, these clubs are businesses. Football players, coaches, and staff are all trying to earn wages. We on the other hand are fans, if we don't like what is happening then what are we doing supporting the club? Being akin to a religious *******?
I've already said no, which is why I said it was a legal crime.Look fella... Yes or No. Did the Glazers break a law to buy the club?
Right, so looks like I read it exactly right the first time through and was spot on with my assessment of you being intentionally obtuse.I've already said no, which is why I said it was a legal crime.
What is your point exactly?
You're friends with this guy or something?
You don't agree with what happened today?
Yes pleaseI would suggest that those who so no should all be banned.
You're pathetic.That makes it OK then. You know nothing about me. I don't break the law, I'm not a neanderthal thug, I don't go around kicking the shit out of people that can't fight back, or rather, I don't go round kicking the shit out of anyone.
I couldn't give a flying feck what violence Rangers fans do, or what Galatasaray fans do, because I am a normal human being.
So stick you're 'state of you' wherever you like because your attitude says an awful lot more about you, than the message you replied to says about me. Pathetic.
How so?Right, so looks like I read it exactly right the first time through and was spot on with my assessment of you being intentionally obtuse.
Serious question, is this all about us not spending millions in the transfer window? Fan protests are being touted as being mainly about the super league, and those two are separate issues.Yes and anyone who votes no has zero right to complain when our next transfer window is just as shambolic as the last one.
You are deluded and everything that is wrong with this club.Look lads, I understand supporters of the club being upset with what has happened to us. We are used to being champions and now we are just a top-four club being regularly beaten by our closest rivals.
However, I have a different opinion about the glazers... I don't think that they are anywhere near as bad as what this forum has made them out to be, and if anything during their tenure the club has grown massively.
Firstly, there's a lot of criticism for the way the glazers bought our club. In reality, what they did to buy the club was completely legal. They bought the club with leverage, taking a huge risk that the purchase would pay off. If not they would have lost hundreds of millions of dollars.
Then people are also complaining about them saddling us with debt, but they have only taken out around 20 million, which is a tiny fraction of our revenue. The rest of the money has been reinvested into the club, not like Arsenal under Kroenke. We have signed the most expensive CB in the world, and every season we drop at least 100 million quid. How can we possibly complain that that isn't enough? We're second in the league for god sake, having improved from 5th place.
Additionally, them saddling the club with debt isn't really a big deal because interest rates are almost at an all-time low, so it's a great time to take debt.
People wanting this 50+1 thing are basically communists, trying to ruin competition in football. Allowing the mega-wealthy to buy clubs means that we get huge investment into teams like man city and Chelsea have done, making our league even more competitive. This helps bring more fans to the league and increase the standards of football. Otherwise small clubs can only spend the revenue that they have, so they will never challenge the big boys.
At the end of the day, these clubs are businesses. Football players, coaches, and staff are all trying to earn wages. We on the other hand are fans, if we don't like what is happening then what are we doing supporting the club? Being akin to a religious *******?
A quick recapHow so?
He said what the fans did today was illegal, and I agreed from a purely legal perspective, but put I forward a case that it was justified.
Explain your point of view. Or is it you being obtuse?
So you're basically saying that if a crime has been committed legally against something dear to your heart, it's ok?
It’s not a ‘crime.’ Stop using that word.
It’s definitely immoral & unethical, but there were mechanisms in place to allow it to happen.
It’s an absolute shame that it happened & I would love to have other owners right now or have the current owners have as much positive impact on United as they do the Buccaneers. I said if I was in Manchester today, I definitely would have been at the protest outside the stadium.
It feels criminal what they did & have done since they took over the club, but it’s not a crime.
You’re being very intentionally obtuse
The man has said he disagrees with what they did, thinks it is unethical, etc. What else do you want here?
It quite literally wasn’t a criminal activity. You admitted to that yourself.
You are deluded and everything that is wrong with this club.
Glazers Out!
The problem is alcohol. I’m sure that idiot who threw the camera/pod would not have done what he did, if he was sober. I think it is very unlikely that you will have a protest against the glazers without alcohol fuelled unrest IMO.Think most here would agree that they entirely back any non-violent protest (including forcing postponements through trespass/civil disobedience) and condemn those who go out looking for a fight with club staff or police.
I'd hope that if there are future protests that fans will employ their critical thinking skills and not fall for the typical media/establishment trick of misrepresenting/generalising/demonising protestors to undermine their cause.
Even during a pandemic?This is a strange thread
There is no proper Utd supporter that will not support a peaceful protest
You should be asking why a Utd fan will not support a protest against our dodgy owners
I think you're being obtuse yourself. He clearly meant it in a more figurative way, so people should stop getting on his case, just so they can 'win' the argument about a choice of words.Right, so looks like I read it exactly right the first time through and was spot on with my assessment of you being intentionally obtuse.
The protest was legal. The policy knew about it. Snooker is being played inside with almost a full audience. Stop trying to score points and understand that the UK is in a completely different place with regard to numbers and cases recorded daily.Even during a pandemic?
This.No.
Only because of the idiots who got inside and those fighting the police outside.
Just as anyone who voted "yes" doesn't have the right to complain if we get sold to the Saudis or someone worse.Yes and anyone who votes no has zero right to complain when our next transfer window is just as shambolic as the last one.