FatTails
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If we are having such a hard time defining it, it might just be made up and it doesn't exist.
Not according to my definitions set out in this thread.
Barcelona and Bayern Munich do that. Most successful football clubs do that. Its not that specific. It just seems like basic requirements for long term success.1- Having a top class academy and providing clear pathways into the first team for youth players.
2- promoting a positive, attacking style of football.
3- Promoting a family culture around the club that is linked to players and managers not only understanding, but fundamentally buying into our history and ethos.
All right, but promoting youth in numbers happens one time in a generation. Fergie did not replicate it with his last great team. He bought Ronaldo and Rooney and developed them. So it’s a bit of a romantic notion I think. And even then, he had a lot of winners all around this young players, you need them to win.United is about playing attacking and attractive football. It's about promoting youth. As a team, we should be going out dominating teams.
This club was forged with an identity. Busy babes. 68 winning team. The class of 92. This is what we're about.
Yes, we reversed it. It’s not Fergie who has United DNA but United who had Fergie’s DNA.United seriously sometimes looks like a third world country still mesmerized by a pseudo ideology of it's founder (Fergie) and making people blindly follow some undefinable, vague objective and calling it the ultimate truth.
Sad to say, this club looks like a third world struggling country.
I like 1 and 2 but what on earth is 3?!Well no it’s not and it doesn’t have to be at all. Again if we all accept that the Utd way means three things:
1- Having a top class academy and providing clear pathways into the first team for youth players.
2- promoting a positive, attacking style of football.
3- Promoting a family culture around the club that is linked to players and managers not only understanding, but fundamentally buying into our history and ethos.
Those are the values that represent Manchester Utd, they are the reason I support this club and not some other plastic club. They are the reason we should never be hiring a Mourinho with his bollocks “heritage” speech and they are the reason I’m more than dubious about appointing another negative manager in Conte. Having clear cultural values should never be linked to mediocrity, no, instead point the finger at the lack of forward planning at the top of the club. But it’s become an easy target to look at the ‘nostalgia’ and believe we can no longer maintain our values, that couldn’t be further from the truth. I think Ole has taken us as far as he can, but what is fundamental is making a positive managerial change and getting in someone who can understand and continue to implement those values which Ole has at least promoted.
There are other managers who promote youth and play an attacking philosophy but it's more the interpretation of the DNA that seems amateurish. The whole surround yourself with his ex players/staff, he got time so patience is everything, wingers, manager must be non confrontational (brainless one) etc It's one thing to keep a few elements that are universal and another to keep random things just to recreate something that happened 30 years ago. I mean, if attacking footy is an important part then Bielso has 100 times more of the Uniged DNA than Ole. So yeah, keep the core ideology if you want but be logical and professional about it.Yes, we reversed it. It’s not Fergie who has United DNA but United who had Fergie’s DNA.
Now he is gone, instead of moving away we try to reproduce it but without the main ingredient.
Don't think it's a troll job but we definitely seem to be letting romanticism about the past cloud our judgment in the present. The fact that we have a manager that doesn't care about modern progressive football accompanied by a set of coaches none of whom has any experience implementing progressive football at the highest level says it all. We want to recreate the past using Chinese fakes rather than create an original future that can match/is befitting of our past.Maybe “United DNA” is massive front for our nepotist decisions as of late. Would be a massive troll job by the club if true.
Would never imagine them to be this creative given recent decisions.
Yeah that's the hardest part to stomach whilst our rivals have top managers in placeDon't think it's a troll job but we definitely seem to be letting romanticism about the past cloud our judgment in the present. The fact that we have a manager that doesn't care about modern progressive football accompanied by a set of coaches none of whom has any experience implementing progressive football at the highest level says it all. We want to recreate the past using Chinese fakes rather than create an original future that can match/is befitting of our past.
Hats off to you sir. You are really grande.Well, can culture be specific? Think of it this way - when Solskjær came, one of the first things he did was go talk to the desk lady who’d worked there for ages. This was in stark contrast to the way Moyes, Van Gaal and particularily Mourinho treated the members of the club that weren’t eligible for the next league game. Many people at the club had been there long enough to know how Sir Alex always treated her with the same level of respect and interest as he did star players and board members. Small things like these add up, and help knit bonds that will be important when the going gets tough. Ferguson himself did almost the same, when he came to the club he studied everything about United history, and everything about Sir Matt Busby. He knew the deeper knowledge was part of the bigger picture both of what dreams may thrive in the corridors of such an institution, and what practices may need to be developped - at many levels.
Sir Alex was close to the sack several times during the first six years. One may ask if the people who didn’t sack him really where so prescient about how his methods would inevitably turn things around, or wether how he respected the culture of both the club and the people working at it buy him time, acceptance and support at the club, making him survive where anyone else would’ve been axed.
As for Solskjær, there have been several rounds when his head has been called for. People assume he is tacticly weak, inexperienced as an elite coach, too soft, etc. And entertain this: If he is indeed behind so many in coaching methods and tactics - how has he managed to keep the job for three years, to get pros and stadium fans to get behind him and stay behind him, to get capitalist speculants to inveat money for good players for him, and to steadily increase the points tallies, heighten the league placings and deepen the cup runs - is he a much better manager than credited, or does the fact he knows and respects culture embedded in the club (among board members, functionaries, players and coaches, fans, community people and even a lot of expert commentators, old buddies so to speak) actually help him in getting the job done, not having to work against people, moods, traditions, habits, not having to reimplement a thousand things every week anew, and having people fight for him after each set back, despite doubt, despite critics in the press and SoMe, despite 20 players in the squad who play less than they think they deserve.
There is a lot of culture living in the people connected to Man United today, and the stories of Sir Matt, The Babes, working class railwaymen, Georgie Best and Sir Alex form helix strings within that culture, making it easier for anyone who can sail with it and harder for anyone aiming to go against it.
Yes but that’s why they’re so successful, they have United DNA.Barcelona and Bayern Munich do that. Most successful football clubs do that. Its not that specific. It just seems like basic requirements for long term success.
This is the very definition of esoteric undefinable statements-Yes. It matters.
It’s not some esoteric undefinable.
It’s bringing on an attacker and not a defender in the 82nd minute at 2-2
It’s signing a young player that may stay forever over a player that will see out his days here.
It’s having players that engage with the community without reward (See Valencia vs Di Maria).
It’s - and this has been lost - accepting that winning lots of games 3-2 is better than winning more 2-0.
It’s inviting jeopardy and embracing uncontrollable elements.
I could go on. But I freely admit I didn’t like Pep Barcelona. Nor do I like Pep City. I DO like how Klopps Liverpool play football. They play the United way. It’s a gut wrenching admission but they’re the same. Their historic sides were boring as feck. They don’t have an enjoyable ‘way’ but by god they have a modern version of the ‘United Way’. It’s a bit hoofy but it’s pretty exciting. They have great players that play on the front foot. Aggressively. It’s not conservative or guarded.
We have all of the sales pitch and none of the application at the moment. We have the players but not the manager. LVG and Jose put results first. I *hope* that Ten Haag would be a halfway house Between ole and those two.
Thats it.
We need to get it back. Perhaps hiring Philip Lahm might do the trick.Yes but that’s why they’re so successful, they have United DNA.
Pretty much yeah. It could only be achieved by having the right people in place, people with the talent to do it. Instead we're trying to manufacture it by bringing in familiar faces with no proven success record, thinking that their connection to the club will be enough. And they'll only bring in familiar faces who won't cause a fuss, you'll never see the likes of Roy keane around the club, they want yes men.Barcelona and Bayern Munich do that. Most successful football clubs do that. Its not that specific. It just seems like basic requirements for long term success.
Would it come as a surprise to you if you were to learn that your genetic material is not unique to you either? You share 50% of your DNA with your parents and your siblings. If you have blue eyes that doesn't mean no one else on the planet can have blue eyes. Barcelona's specific culture is intertwined with the idea of playing possession football (among a myriad of other things). That doesn't mean Ajax can't also foster such a culture.This is the very definition of esoteric undefinable statements-
- It’s bringing on an attacker and not a defender in the 82nd minute at 2-2 - That has nothing to do with the 'United Way'. Thats just a more attacking manager. Or any manager based on what they define the team need. Maybe its good to get a draw sometimes. Sir Alex played for and was happy with a draw loads of times if that's all we needed. Are you saying when Liverpool sub on an attacker when they are drawing then you shout at the TV 'hey look they are doing it 'United Way!' No you dont. Why? Because it has nothing to do with it.
- It’s signing a young player that may stay forever over a player that will see out his days here. - Same as above. All teams do it so its nothing to do with the 'United Way'. Also all teams have academies. Do you think they dont wish for the youth players to end up in the first team? Of course the do. Do you not think its financially more viable to sign youth players. Of course it is. But football is not black and white. You sign who is best for the team to win trophies. Full stop. If thats an older player then thats what you do. And again Sir Alex did it loads of times - eh Van Persie? Berbatov
- It’s having players that engage with the community without reward (See Valencia vs Di Maria) - Again every single club do this. They do extensive background checks to make sure the player is not an arsehole. Sure everyone prefers a married, quiet, zen player over a a wild youtuber. But firstly thats not the age we live in anymore and secondly its just not feasible. What we gonna do? Hire from monasteries? And again Sir Alexs' players were no angels. Trust me. They weren't.
- It’s - and this has been lost - accepting that winning lots of games 3-2 is better than winning more 2-0. - See point 1. This is just an attacking manager. See Klopp. See loads of teams. This is not 'The United Way' its just football.
- It’s inviting jeopardy and embracing uncontrollable elements. - What?
This is exactly the grey nonsense that we are living in. Why are we just getting blanket statements about football and trying to live by them? Its crazy! I might as well add sht - Get the ball back. Stop the other team from scoring. Wear the official Kit. Dont sht on the pitch.
Mille grazieHats off to you sir. You are really grande.
I see what you're saying here, but I don't think any of this is reasoning as to why you should be looking for someone with "United DNA". All of those issues are down to signing managers that weren't the right fit. You need a manager that has worked at a top club before and knows how things work. You need a manager that has been successful within the last few years. You need a manager that isn't deluded into thinking that he can get everything he wants, without question. You need a manager that doesn't act like a complete asshole, and understands how to lead the club with class.The identity of an organization is constituted by numerous traits. Whether these traits (in isolation) are unique or not, you need to be familiar with this specific amalgam of them. Otherwise you are baffled and gobsmacked when the crowd starts chanting "attack" because you thought just having a lot of possession is attacking, which is what happened to one of our hopeful successors. Or, you will take the team to Bondi Beach and cause complete mayhem, because you thought having the team mingle at beaches is kosher; because you've done it before at Everton. Or you'll think that "United can sign any player"; or you will go on bizarre rants about heritage and sabotage an entire season in service of your own ego.
People familiar with United are less likely to fall prey to some of these pitfalls; so everything else being equal between two candidates, you pick the one who is, rather than the one who isn't. You can describe this familiarity in whichever terms you want, whether it's "United way" or "United DNA" or "One of us" it's completely irrelevant. People demanding precise descriptive content of the term are first demanding that it be something that it isn't, and then complaining that it isn't "Oh it's just a myth!".
That’s just what someone without United DNA would think.United DNA seems to be being a top red and swallowing whatever PR guff the club comes out and acting as a cheerleader despite being served up regular scoops of utter dross.
Actually if you look at Fergie over the years it was exactly about winning above all else. He would happily change the way we played if it gave the team a better chance of winning including parking the bus. His longevity was exactly because he was prepared to change and adapt.How can people not believe there is a "United way"??? Do you even understand why support United???
To help you out, it's NOT just about winning!
Or Darren Fletcher so they sayThe only true way of maintaining SAF DNA is to appoint Darren Fergusan as our next manager.
Absolutely correct.Our two most successful managers did not play for United and had no prior affiliations to Utd. One of them was a City player and a Liverpool captain!
Meanwhile, Wilf McGuinness was a massive fail and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer isn’t looking too great at the moment.
We shouldn’t be so insular. Its fecked us up in the past and it’s rearing its ugly head again.
hahaOr Darren Fletcher so they say
Good post.I believe Busby was a former city and Liverpool player and was in line to be the liverpool
boss before taking the United job. Sir Alex was considering the Spurs job before ultimately taking the United job. This false idea of “United DNA” has failed the club before when Wilf was appointed after Busby. Just hire the best candidate available and act like a big club again.