Does Ole have it in him to drop De Gea for the last 2 PL games?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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No one is saying drop de gea after one bad game. Its 2 years worth of letting the team down.
Is Victor Valdés still available for us?
It’s not just one game. It goes all the way back to WC 2018. Plus there is an alternative whereas our two centre backs are the only senior ones fit (Bailly concussed, Jones presumably still injured).
“have it in him” implies this would be bravery rather than idiocy. Better the devil you know at this stage of the season.
Ole has very clearly shown that he is not sentimental in the large quantity of players he has shipped out and phased out.
Until the press conference this morning I thought Ole would keep DDG, but after his comments I have a feeling he'll drop him for tomorrows game. Romero is experienced, he's used to playing once in 3 months & has played in a WC final, so pressure wise he'd handle it.
If it were me to make the decision I would keep DDG for the last 2 PL games. Then next season I'd bring Henderson back & announce that Henderson is no. 1 because he's so good he can't be held back any longer. Having that attitude makes it less like 'DDG is being dumped'.
The hope would be that DDG would find himself another club or at least a loan similar to Sanchez's at Inter. With his huge salary no club will buy him, nobody was interested in him last summer & he waited the whole transfer window before signing his contract in mid Sept once it had closed.
If it were me to make the decision I would keep DDG for the last 2 PL games. Then next season I'd bring Henderson back & announce that Henderson is no. 1 because he's so good he can't be held back any longer. Having that attitude makes it less like 'DDG is being dumped'.
The hope would be that DDG would find himself another club or at least a loan similar to Sanchez's at Inter. With his huge salary no club will buy him, nobody was interested in him last summer & he waited the whole transfer window before signing his contract in mid Sept once it had closed.
I can’t imagine a worse course of action more damaging to the manager’s relationship with the player, with future players, or the club’s reputation itself.
If it were up to me De Gea would be on the bench with Romero starting, however I will be very surprised if Ole does that. The thing is, if we drop points vs West Ham and De Gea lets in a howler, then it won't be De Gea's fault, it will be Ole's for not making the big decision that obviously needs to be made...
I think we'd all be shocked if there was a video of his gaffes this last 2 years.
They have been fairly regular, so we have a huge decision in the summer.
However, I'd keep him in for the last 2 games, and hope for the best!
Otherwise it'll totally demoralise him, put massive pressure on Romero, and cause unnecessary friction.
Romero can play the Europa league games.
They have been fairly regular, so we have a huge decision in the summer.
However, I'd keep him in for the last 2 games, and hope for the best!
Otherwise it'll totally demoralise him, put massive pressure on Romero, and cause unnecessary friction.
Romero can play the Europa league games.
Which is the same with Romero. To say Romero has not put a foot wrong is factually wrong
Fecking hell, he actually played for us, didn't he?
I hope Madrid have upgraded their fax machine.
Not sure about the players reports, but comparing DDG playing week in week out with Romero and then saying net number of mistakes done by DDG is more than Romero is completely unfair.
I fully understand that De Gea is making more mistakes than allowed. But he is making some fantastic saves which Romero can't. I think putting Romero week in week out will yield same or worse results. Some of the saves we think is guaranteed will no longer be.
But he's been more reliable than de gea. And at the moment most keepers in the league would be reliable than him. He's let in the joint most errors leading to goals over the last 2 years.
Ole has to look at the good of the team not an individual. De Gea isnt performing well and the other saves he made in the semi you would expect any decent keeper to make. Romero is a decent keeper as well and surely for the good of the team, should play from now to the end of the season. Taking De Gea out of the firing line, just might be what he needs. A kick up the ass might get his mindset back on track.
De Gea was far worse at the end of last season and Ole refused to drop him when he was basically throwing the ball in his own net every game, major reason why we threw away top 4.
So I doubt he will drop him this time. Weak management, even if Romero came in and made an error I'd still stick by the decision because of the frequency and likelihood of De Gea dropping a clanger if he'd have played.
If your keeper's confidence is shot and he's a nervous wreck at the most vital time of the season, you don't let him play his way into some form. Get him out the team and let him return under the radar at a later date.
So I doubt he will drop him this time. Weak management, even if Romero came in and made an error I'd still stick by the decision because of the frequency and likelihood of De Gea dropping a clanger if he'd have played.
If your keeper's confidence is shot and he's a nervous wreck at the most vital time of the season, you don't let him play his way into some form. Get him out the team and let him return under the radar at a later date.
Its easier to say than done, but dropping De Gea at the moment would be throwing him under the bus and would generate conflict between the squad since De Gea is one of the players with most weight within.
I think the healtier way is to let him play both matches and make the switch in the summer, when it seems its about his current level and not that specific one mistake.
We have serious serious problems if dropping an out of form player would cause "serious conflict" in the dressing room. This is hardly prime Roy Keane we're talking about in terms of dressing room influence, he's just another player, I very much doubt it would be an issue and if it is he needs shipping out because we can't have such poor attitude in the squad especially from one of our worst performing players.
He can return as #1 at the start of next season with the pressure off and less scrutiny (or even the Europa league games depending on Romero's performances and whether we need to win for CL qualification). I actually think it's more cruel on De Gea to send him out there when his confidence is shot and he's under such intense scrutiny, he knows every error will be a personal disaster in terms of public opinion, the manager needs to protect the player and his team.
It depends how you look at it, if he benches if he procteting him or he lost faith in him?
For good or worst De Gea is an important name on the squad, everyone would understand why he was benched and no one could argue but the critic and noise would be huge, both options have their benefits and consequences.
If he drops him he may gain respect as to say no one has their place nailed here, but Ole doesnt have the weight to do that. He is too much of a nice guy. Youll need someone with the character of Mourinho who doesnt care to fight with players, Ole seems to care a lot, maybe in excess, about the squad harmony.
From what I have seen, the cull happens behind the scenes for Ole. Never on stage. This is front and center. Media and pundits are goading him. I like the fact that he nipped it in the bud.
Romero is also a shaky keeper. So is De Gea. But De Gea can make amends. There’s a reason why Romero is happy to be number 2.
We have Hendo and Ole will be seriously thinking about him in the summer, you can bet on that. But now is not the time. It will distract the team at such a late stage. it will disrupt the chemistry in our backline, or Whatever of it is still there.
Romero is also a shaky keeper. So is De Gea. But De Gea can make amends. There’s a reason why Romero is happy to be number 2.
We have Hendo and Ole will be seriously thinking about him in the summer, you can bet on that. But now is not the time. It will distract the team at such a late stage. it will disrupt the chemistry in our backline, or Whatever of it is still there.
If a player has such weak mentality that he needs to be rested for every mistake made, then that player doesn't deserve a place in team. Tomorrow if outfield players make mistakes at important points of the match, do we drop them as well.
Our first priority should be the team and maximizing our chances to get top 4. Any benefit that DDG gets out of the decision should be a bonus. Ole should be making a decision based on how well DDG is performing in training as well as how well he has coped with the criticism. At the very least, there needs to be a heart-to-heart and an honest assessment of how things stand.
Frankly, I can see this going both ways. If we drop him and Romero makes an error, it will look bad on the team. If he doesn't drop him and he makes an error that costs us points (or worse a top 4 spot), then it could be Ole's job on the line.
Personally, I think Ole will not drop DDG, at least for the two remaining PL games but his starting position for next season is definitely under threat.
Frankly, I can see this going both ways. If we drop him and Romero makes an error, it will look bad on the team. If he doesn't drop him and he makes an error that costs us points (or worse a top 4 spot), then it could be Ole's job on the line.
Personally, I think Ole will not drop DDG, at least for the two remaining PL games but his starting position for next season is definitely under threat.
There isn't a hope in hell he will drop him with possibly our most important game in recent times ahead of us. Better the devil you know than Romero who hasn't been a first choice for probably 10 years at different clubs .
But one thing for sure West Ham will be shooting on sight
But one thing for sure West Ham will be shooting on sight
There'll be doing a lot more than that if the opportunites arrive. Aerial bombardment and a ceaseless amount of rough housing on corners.
If our midfield doesn't control the game. De Gea is going to be thoroughly examined. The biggest test of his mettle in his club career.
De Gea is not that bad guys! Cheer up
We are playing West ham not 2000's Barcelona
My fear is De Gea will make a half decent save tonight which will be replayed over and over again as proof that all the 'haters' were wrong.
Then on Sunday, when it really matters, he'll cost us again.
That's why I would play Romero.
I really hope I'm wrong but it's difficult not to be pessimistic about it when this very cycle has been happening almost like clockwork for going on two years now.
It was bad enough that we turned a blind eye to this exact same scenario last year and it cost us top 4, if we let it happen again then it's unforgivable and we don't deserve to be in the champions League anyway.
Then on Sunday, when it really matters, he'll cost us again.
That's why I would play Romero.
I really hope I'm wrong but it's difficult not to be pessimistic about it when this very cycle has been happening almost like clockwork for going on two years now.
It was bad enough that we turned a blind eye to this exact same scenario last year and it cost us top 4, if we let it happen again then it's unforgivable and we don't deserve to be in the champions League anyway.
DeGea did not cost us top 4 last season ffs . It's a team game you cant just pick one or two games and say oh look he made a mistake that cost us because you could put that blame on every single player at the club . Plus a good result tonight and Sunday will be a walk in the park
Never thought I'd see a post about being afraid that our own GK would make a good save.
I have seen it all on RedCafe. The feck do you want? he must make mistakes (if he plays) to make sure we don't get top 4?
I have seen it all on RedCafe. The feck do you want? he must make mistakes (if he plays) to make sure we don't get top 4?
So people are allowed to say that he 'saved us' for years but you can't say that he 'cost us' last year and this.
Is it any wonder he's massively overrated then?
Look, I'm not saying he singlehandedly cost us top 4 last year but in the last third of the season, he had a string of individual errors (against Arsenal, Wolves, Man City, Chelsea to name a few) that were a huge factor in us missing out on top 4.
As I said, if we (or most importantly Ole), let's that happen again then it's an unforgivable oversight in my opinion.
This year, by the way, if we miss out on top 4, then I would argue he has singlehandedly cost us because, compared to last year, most of the other players have stepped up and had good - very good seasons.
I expect West Ham to really try and rough him and Lindelof up tonight.
Yeah but you did say he cost us top 4 ?
I'm not arguing he's still on top of his game because he's obviously not but you can't say it's his fault we didn't get top 4 last year just like of somehow we didn't this year then it's not his fault either.
I remember all the missed penalties earlier this season that would have us comfortably in 3rd and the defensive errors that lead to goals .
People are going mad at DeGea for Girouds goal at the weekend but for me Lindelofs shocking defending was to blame like it was against Southampton last week .
It's way to easy to single out goalkeepers
OK, not sure what difference you think it makes. The pressure on De Gea is enormous; biggest he's ever had in his club career, and, we're facing a team who strengths are his weaknesses, particularly melees in the box.
They'll be pot-shotting and going for broke trying to work him as and when they can, and since they've now survived relegation, have absolutely nothing to lose in doing so.
At least with a highly retentive team, shots are very few and very far between. And they never get physical on corners, so your point is not really here nor there in relation to the issues De Gea is having and why West Ham have every chance of compounding them.
It doesn't really work like that in my opinion.
He saved us in those years because he overperformed, as in his performances helped cover up a shambolic defense in that time period.
De Gea is currently saving the expected amount of saves for an average keeper, but for what we expect from a keeper like De Gea we call that underperforming. Still, I would say it's harsh to say he's the one costing us if he's putting in an average performance.
Rarely can one part of the team be highlighted to be costing us when it's a collective lack of effort.
What if the defense performed out of their mind and barely let an attacker through? Then the defense would be saving us. Or if our attackers scored a crazy amount of goals each match so that it didn't matter what happened at the back, then our attackers would be saving us.
We need to up our game across the board to be able to challenge. We can't be a team that only does well when our keeper is outperforming expectations.
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So that's the difference it makes
You were talking like West ham are going to bombard him . It's a possibility West Ham will give him very little to do because they are mostly not very good .
So that's the difference it makes
West Ham are going to bombard him if our midfield doesn't keep them preoccupied and on the defensive.
I'll reiterate they have nothing to lose, West Ham also have history of denying us at crucial times in the season and, on top of that, Moyes will be trying his hardest to scupper us and get one over on the club he feels set him back. He also knows De Gea and what unsettles him (it's hardly a state secret by now).
West Ham have enough players with a good shot on them to make this a [really] nervy affair against a keeper in a crisis.
They absolutely don't have to be world beaters or a team for the ages, just ones who can get 25 yarders on target frequently and scramble aggressively on corners.
It's like we have a 6 year old goalkeeper. Sweet Christ he is making some errors but the way you are talking every shot on goal is going in .
Hopefully we get the much needed win tonight and then at the end of the season a decision can be made on DeGea
You're really intent on missing the point. I can't make it any clearer. They can play the percentages and the odds on him spilling or having shots go through him are not going to be out of this world, which is why it's such a test for him.
He's already dire on corners and our backline compound that with their own flapping.
If he does start and makes no errors then that's excellent. If he's as nervous as he has been and costs us, it cannot be seen as a shock by anyone.
I don’t see much pressure, especially if he doesn’t read this forum, which I doubt he does, because why listen to lay people tell you how to do your job? In fact, I think the lack of pressure is part of the problem, no competition for his spot, more money than god.
Anyway as others have said dropping De Gea at this stage of a season would be nuts, Romero would be on a hiding to nothing. An international keeper who is happy at club level being a number two is not who you want to throw into a high pressure situation.
As for West Ham putting in crosses, as someone else said,they can do that all day, that’s not the issue. Hard shots from fairly close range are mostly the issue.