Does who we sign next really matter anymore

[TsuWave]

Nope, I haven’t said success has to come at the cost of attacking football, you’ve twisted my post. I’m saying, that changing our manager, in my opinion, which I’m entitled to, will result in nothing but stagnating our progress. Our football isn’t great, but what do you want? Klopp football? He’s had 3 years at Liverpool and won sodd all. We win things, we’ve progressed and we’re in the best league position we’ve been in in 5 years.

your exact quote was "what you’re saying you want, is to play more attacking and win as much as Liverpool or Tottenham?", you presented success and attacking football as if they were mutually exclusive. and you keep hitting that note by asking me if i want klopp football and stating that he hasn't won anything. You can play attacking football and win, I don't know what you are not getting about this

I have no issue with the other part of your post, I think your remark about a managerial change potentially hindering our progress is a fair enough remark to make, even if I think we should change managers.

 

[Bestietom]

Sadly, we can only play with 11.

If we are going to continue with a 4231 formation, I would try what you suggest.

Matic next to McTominay/Herrera sounds balanced to me, mainly because we have Pogba in front of them, plus Alexis has a good work rate.

Martial would rotate with Rashford.

IMO Shaw needs a run of games, I would like to see him starting more often.

Yes we should win with 12 players on the pitch.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Yes we should win with 12 players on the pitch.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

When I dream about my "dream formation" (Let's not talk about if it works in reality):

----------------------------Lukaku------------------
-----------Rashford---------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Martial------------Pogba------------Sanchez----
------------------------------------------------------
-------------Matic-------------Herrera--------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Shaw--------Bailly--------Rojo------Valencia---
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
----------------------DDG---------------------------

Let's be honest, this is one of the line-ups that many clubs can only dream of!

And even better in the future:

----------------------------Lukaku------------------
-----------Rashford---------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Martial------------Pogba------------Sanchez----
------------------------------------------------------
-------------Matic-------------McTominay----------
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
---Shaw--------Bailly--------Tuanzebe-----TFM----
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
----------------------DDG---------------------------

Who needs new signing? :P

Nice dream, alternate reality when football is 12 vs 12.

 

[Isotope]

Perfect City lost to Wigan. We’ve had a very productive, progressive season and we’ve lost to Seville. You’d think we’re sat in 10th place. We’re currently sat 4 points clear of our nearest rivals in 2nd place. Having taken over from a p!ss poor LVG/Moyes/Expired Fergie squad.

But no, let’s play attacking football and naively get outthought by managers like Mourinho when it matters.

So are you satisfied with what you've seen so far, and the team's progress? Do you like this style?

 

[Adisa]

I personally don't have any faith in the manager so for me it doesn't matter. The results might improve but we will always be tedious to watch.
I also suspect attackers will continue to struggle.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

So are you satisfied with what you've seen so far, and the team's progress? Do you like this style?

But that's hardly the point is it?

What's the reality of the situation and what expectations are different. The poster stated that in league terms we are far better off which is true, we have a chance in the FA Cup.

You're questioning the means by which we may or may not achieve this which is another question altogether. I'd ask you, What is it that you'd like to see from Manchester Utd? Forget the barnstorming Fergie era. What do you want now? How are we going to achieve it?

 

[wolvored]

Unless we buy players to play in the correct positions then there is no point. We desperately need a rw but seems every manager has been blind to this since Fergie. Funnily enough we have got 2 rw but They play as fb's and talking of fb.....

 

[ghagua]

No it wont really matter who we buy, not in the sense of where the club should be. We may see a few points difference, bt we will not be challenging for the league or the champions league. Even world class players need to be coached and put in a system that gets the best out of them.

 

[RedCoffee]

I don’t care. I think if we signed Messi and Ronaldo this summer they’d end up as defensive midfielders. It’s a joke when you are an attacking footballer and your manager tells you to think about your defensive position before committing yourself to challenges and passes.

 

[Isotope]

But that's hardly the point is it?

What's the reality of the situation and what expectations are different. The poster stated that in league terms we are far better off which is true, we have a chance in the FA Cup.

You're questioning the means by which we may or may not achieve this which is another question altogether. I'd ask you, What is it that you'd like to see from Manchester Utd? Forget the barnstorming Fergie era. What do you want now? How are we going to achieve it?

Now I want to see players to do better than what they were capable. Eventually, I want United to play like a world class team: domineering and with style.
How are going to achieve it? Through a better coaching, better scouting, better managing on tactic.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Now I want to see players to do better than what they were capable. Eventually, I want United to play like a world class team: domineering and with style.
How are going to achieve it? Through a better coaching, better scouting, better managing on tactic.

Exactly. I'm sick of shit football. Especially when the person responsible for it guarantees major trophies but hasn't looked anywhere close to delivering it.

 

[noodlehair]

If we signed Jake Livermore I reckon people would suddenly decide it mattered who we signed again.

 

[Rob Bowman]

He’s signed two already. One is well down the pecking order, the other was shambolic last night.

Not arguing with your assessment at all... I just meant a new one like possibly Varane or Alderweireld .

 

[RedFish]

We need consistency. Go out in the CL and people start flapping. Of course it matters who we sign.

 

[Camilo]

Did you see Pogbas attitude?

He’s an embarrassment.

Are you trying to criticise Vardy? He’s been one of the PLs best goal scorers in recent years

I'm merely saying, put hard working but limited players into our system and the results wouldn't be much different. Vardy is a hard working, limited striker - absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it's not what you expect at the level we're supposedly meant to be at.

Are we all just thinking Sanchez and Pogba are suddenly shit? They weren't as good as we thought? "Put Lingard in for Sanchez, he's upset the balance" etc.. It's nonsense. We have some wonderful players. Martial is a great player, Matic is a great player, Pogba is a great player, Mata is a great player, Sanchez is a great player, Lukaku us a great player.. And we have the best keeper in the world. And a collection of CBs that we'll genuinely struggle to improve upon (much). We're spoilt for talented, professional footballers. I absolutely maintain my original point - Jose is achieving the minimum a team this full of quality should be. I don't know what's going on with Pogba.. Attitude, commitment, we can try to judge from here, but we all know he's a great footballer who doesn't seem happy. Why is that? What's the problem here? Why did Jose buy him? What, he bought one of the most talented midfielders in the world to "break" him and play him in a role he doesn't seem interested nor competent in? And then to get dropped (and I think more and more he has been dropped) for a limited McTominay and Fellaini? Not sure my attitude would be great in that scenario either.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I'm merely saying, put hard working but limited players into our system and the results wouldn't be much different. Vardy is a hard working, limited striker - absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it's not what you expect at the level we're supposedly meant to be at.

Are we all just thinking Sanchez and Pogba are suddenly shit? They weren't as good as we thought? "Put Lingard in for Sanchez, he's upset the balance" etc.. It's nonsense. We have some wonderful players. Martial is a great player, Matic is a great player, Pogba is a great player, Mata is a great player, Sanchez is a great player, Lukaku us a great player.. And we have the best keeper in the world. And a collection of CBs that we'll genuinely struggle to improve upon (much). We're spoilt for talented, professional footballers. I absolutely maintain my original point - Jose is achieving the minimum a team this full of quality should be. I don't know what's going on with Pogba.. Attitude, commitment, we can try to judge from here, but we all know he's a great footballer who doesn't seem happy. Why is that? What's the problem here? Why did Jose buy him? What, he bought one of the most talented midfielders in the world to "break" him and play him in a role he doesn't seem interested nor competent in? And then to get dropped (and I think more and more he has been dropped) for a limited McTominay and Fellaini? Not sure my attitude would be great in that scenario either.

I would have to agree. I think Mourinhos philosophy is hindering the players we have. Now I still back him and want to give him a third year, but i think a more attacking minded coach could get more out of the potential we have. And we have, like you say, good players.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Nice dream, alternate reality when football is 12 vs 12.

Happens to us all i think. I added an extra player once without realizing it.

 

[Revaulx]

If we signed Jake Livermore I reckon people would suddenly decide it mattered who we signed again.

If Jose decided that Jake Livermore would work well in his system then I’d be all for it. What pisses me off is signing “superstars” that constantly fail to deliver.

 

[Schneckerl]

What pisses me off is signing “superstars” that constantly fail to deliver.

....but Sanchez gave us social media likes, remember?

 

[noodlehair]

If Jose decided that Jake Livermore would work well in his system then I’d be all for it. What pisses me off is signing “superstars” that constantly fail to deliver.

Well that's because when we had Gill and Ferguson signing players it would be based on the player being the right type of character and a hell of a lot of research.

Now we have Woodward who it seems just signs the bigger name he can find who fits a profile based on the skill set the manager wants...And for the first couple of years I'm not even sure he was doing that.

Changing the manager will change little in this regard I reckon. It's been going on under 3 managers now.

 

[Craig Bellendy]

We have top players our squad is decent, on paper we have the second best team in the prem behind city, im finally convinced its the manager we need to change and ive backed him all the way until now.
It doesnt matter who we sign, even if we signed messi neymar griezman and hazard in the summer nothing would change,infact we would make them look average.

Dont give jose any more money to waste its completely pointless.

 

[sjw2511]

2nd best squad in the league, guess what our league position is..

 

[Adebesi]

We have top players our squad is decent, on paper we have the second best team in the prem behind city, im finally convinced its the manager we need to change and ive backed him all the way until now.
It doesnt matter who we sign, even if we signed messi neymar griezman and hazard in the summer nothing would change,infact we would make them look average.

Dont give jose any more money to waste its completely pointless.

We'd be worse because they wouldn't be suitable players for Mourinho's plan. We've got too many individualists as it is. But I think we can be better - more efficient, better at winning, I mean, not necessarily more fun to watch - with the right signings. It just wouldn't be those guys.

 

[Revaulx]

Well that's because when we had Gill and Ferguson signing players it would be based on the player being the right type of character and a hell of a lot of research.

Now we have Woodward who it seems just signs the bigger name he can find who fits a profile based on the skill set the manager wants...And for the first couple of years I'm not even sure he was doing that.

Changing the manager will change little in this regard I reckon. It's been going on under 3 managers now.

Agree with all of this, particularly the last bit, which is why for all Jose’s faults I really don’t see any virtue in getting rid.

Re. the bolded bit: I’m still not sure that’s happening even now. Pogba = marketing and sentimental reasons. Sánchez = big name and available. Not that they aren’t (theoretically) good players.

 

[Nate Dogg]

It's unfortunate we hired 3 dinasaurs since Fergie, so for me we need someone like Poch who can adapt to to many apsects where Mouringo is unable to do so.

 

[devilish]

I disagree with OP. If we think that any team can win with wingers playing as fullbacks, strikers playing as wingers, no 10s as defensive midfielders and no cover for our DMs then we're really deluded.

 

[Smores]

It's unfortunate we hired 3 dinasaurs since Fergie, so for me we need someone like Poch who can adapt to to many apsects where Mouringo is unable to do so.

I think this post sums up everything that's ridiculous about this forum right now. Calling Jose a dinosaur and wanting after the hipster choice of manager who is below us in the table with the leagues best striker.

 

[Dec9003]

No I don't think we can improve on Young, Jones, Smalling, Valencia, Herrera, Fellaini, a 35/6 yo Carrick, blind, Darmian, Shaw, Rojo, Pogba, a 35 yo injured Ibrahimovic.
This is the bulk of our squad, how many of them should be here next season?

 

[Drz]

I’m not arsed about style, I want to see my team at the top, competing for majors.

I looked on at his Chelsea sides with envy when they walked the PL, I didn’t care about style.

So you are in it for the glory not the football.
Barring a 2 to 3 month spell with Real, I have not found anything remotly envious about the football his teams play. If its just about results then watching games live is pointless, the score and a youtube highlight reel of individual feats should suffice.
Whilst I can condone his tactics at a national level, because you can't do anything about the talent pool you have and training sessions to improve the talent is limited. But at club level, I don't find any interest in winning anything the way Greece won the Euros.

 

[togg]

It's interesting though isn't it? I mean Ferguson took three/four years to achieve any success with United. I know football and the money in it was different back then, but still. If Ferguson was joining us now as the manager, people would already be wanting him out, because I'm telling you, a lot of those matches United played during his first couple of years or more of his tenure were pretty dismal!

 

[Smores]

Well that's because when we had Gill and Ferguson signing players it would be based on the player being the right type of character and a hell of a lot of research.

Now we have Woodward who it seems just signs the bigger name he can find who fits a profile based on the skill set the manager wants...And for the first couple of years I'm not even sure he was doing that.

Changing the manager will change little in this regard I reckon. It's been going on under 3 managers now.

I think you're spot on in that getting the right chatacters on board is something we lost with those two. It's no wonder our legends bang on about certain players not being united players.

I don't agree with the idea from others that we used to buy for a system though, i think we always identified talent then made the best of them. In nearly every position our replacements were always fundamentally different and it altered our play consequently, there was no perfect system it was make the best out of our best players. Its easy to wax lyrical about coaching and systems when you have great talents in great form like Kane, Salah.

 

[beedoubleyou]

It's interesting though isn't it? I mean Ferguson took three/four years to achieve any success with United. I know football and the money in it was different back then, but still. If Ferguson was joining us now as the manager, people would already be wanting him out, because I'm telling you, a lot of those matches United played during his first couple of years or more of his tenure were pretty dismal!

Fergie didn't inherit a team littered with champions, break world transfer records or ever play as cowardly as Mourinho did on Tuesday night.

 

[Dec9003]

Fergie didn't inherit a team littered with champions, break world transfer records or ever play as cowardly as Mourinho did on Tuesday night.

Sorry but did Mourinho inherit a team littered with champions? He inherited a team of deadwood if anything.
Tuesday was abysmal, but at least we're progressing for the first time in five years.

 

[dogwithabone]

It's interesting though isn't it? I mean Ferguson took three/four years to achieve any success with United. I know football and the money in it was different back then, but still. If Ferguson was joining us now as the manager, people would already be wanting him out, because I'm telling you, a lot of those matches United played during his first couple of years or more of his tenure were pretty dismal!

Fergie had to rebuild a club not just a team. The scouting and recruitment was shot to bits, a drinking culture existed and even had to put up with the team bus driver sitting on the bench at matches ! Mourinho swanned it to one of the slickest operations in the game and all he’s had to worry about is putting a team together with a seemingly limitless pot of money.

 

[Ikon]

I have always been firmly in the Jose camp, but even my confidence in him is being seriously challenged these past few months.

He is generally doing good things in the transfer market, but we still look nothing like an ominous team in the making, except on paper.
I'm optimistic that this Summer will see a few more top class players arrive, but we need to improve enormously next season, else Spurs Chelsea and Liverpool will all be ahead of us.

 

[beedoubleyou]

Sorry but did Mourinho inherit a team littered with champions? He inherited a team of deadwood if anything.
Tuesday was abysmal, but at least we're progressing for the first time in five years.

He sure did. Of the current players:

David de Gea - Premier League Winner
Phil Jones - Premier League Winner
Juan Mata - Champions League and World Cup Winner
Chris Smalling- Premier League Winner
Michael Carrick- Premier League and Champions League Winner
Ashley Young - Premier League Winner
Antonio Valencia - Premier League Winner

A few he let go had won a lot too and I've not mentioned the signings he's brought in at great expense. The comparison to Fergie taking over a team in the 80s who hadn't won the league in 20+ years is more than generous.

I wouldn't argue against deadwood or that there has been progress, but Tuesday was abhorrent. I've supported him vocally since he took over, but Tuesday was pathetic and my faith in him is more than a little shaken.

 

[togg]

Fergie had to rebuild a club not just a team. The scouting and recruitment was shot to bits, a drinking culture existed and even had to put up with the team bus driver sitting on the bench at matches ! Mourinho swanned it to one of the slickest operations in the game and all he’s had to worry about is putting a team together with a seemingly limitless pot of money.

To be fair pretty much every club had a drinking culture back then...it was part of the game. I just think he deserves support for one more season. He inherited a pretty disjointed team. Moyes had got rid of all the Fergie's backroom staff and pissed off a lot of the established players. LVG was....well, what can we say that hasn't been. I think the state of the club when Mourinho took over was in a much worse state than he or anybody really knew.

 

[Dec9003]

He sure did. Of the current players:

David de Gea - Premier League Winner
Phil Jones - Premier League Winner
Juan Mata - Champions League and World Cup Winner
Chris Smalling- Premier League Winner
Michael Carrick- Premier League and Champions League Winner
Ashley Young - Premier League Winner
Antonio Valencia - Premier League Winner

A few he let go had won a lot too and I've not mentioned the signings he's brought in at great expense. The comparison to Fergie taking over a team in the 80s who hadn't won the league in 20+ years is more than generous.

I wouldn't argue against deadwood or that there has been progress, but Tuesday was abhorrent. I've supported him vocally since he took over, but Tuesday was pathetic and my faith in him is more than a little shaken.

De Gea - fair enough
Jones, Smalling, Carrick and young though? Come on mate. I know these players have won the league but Jones and Smalling weren't key to that, and Carrick is a champion but past it.
As for Young? He's not good enough, he wasn't when we won the league with him.
I think it's fair enough to look at Tuesday night and be a bit perplexed, I'm feeling the same way. But all I'm saying is the squad he took over wasn't littered with actual champions, not like your Rios, Vidas etc
Ps I missed out Mata, he's a great player and has done well overall under Jose thankfully, I wish he played more though.

 

[Revaulx]

It's interesting though isn't it? I mean Ferguson took three/four years to achieve any success with United. I know football and the money in it was different back then, but still. If Ferguson was joining us now as the manager, people would already be wanting him out, because I'm telling you, a lot of those matches United played during his first couple of years or more of his tenure were pretty dismal!

Ferguson took over a team heading for relegation. In his first full season he finished second in the league.

The two seasons after that were terribly frustrating. But that initial bounce bought him a lot of goodwill. From fifth + a cup to sixth + two “easy” cups was a lot less impressive by comparison.