I'm off to bed so good luck @Lord SInister and will address what is there in the morning.
Hopefully we'll both be around tomorrow for some quality debate
Hopefully we'll both be around tomorrow for some quality debate
Dominoes draft: QF - Enigma_87 vs Lord SInister
- Thread starter Tuppet
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
So enigma is asleep and I just woke up hahah
sorry buddy felt asleep.I'm off to bed so good luck @Lord SInister and will address what is there in the morning.
Hopefully we'll both be around tomorrow for some quality debate
Is not really a mismatch and it is just assumptions that Ziege will come short of Figo.
While the truth Ziege vs Figo have played five times, never did Figo got better of Ziege. He never won against Ziege.
Figo and Ziege (always playing in a 3-5-2 or 5-2-1-2 formations) clashed 5 times, twice with Bayern vs Barca(one draw and one win in favour of Ziege, Figo neither created or scored a goal) and three times with Germany vs Portugal(one win and two draws), Figo was never a factor in any of these matches, as he would never really dominate Ziege,as we are assuming.
Here is an interview of Ziege, where you can see him talking about how relished playing against the best wingers of his era.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/4749913/Bigger-the-better-for-Ziege.html
Like Messi a lot more here although still not ideal. Already expressed my thoughts about the 5_3_2 being so much better than the last game in the draft thread.
Enigma has an amazing front 6 and while his defense is not the greatest, it has strengths in the right areas to deal with Messi and Maradona.
Going with Enigma as I find his team simply built much better. Would go ahead and call it a tier higher simply because I can see them all working together as a charm.
Enigma has an amazing front 6 and while his defense is not the greatest, it has strengths in the right areas to deal with Messi and Maradona.
Going with Enigma as I find his team simply built much better. Would go ahead and call it a tier higher simply because I can see them all working together as a charm.
If Matthaus will give his game on solely concentrating on Maradona, i.e, man-marking, there will not be an overload on Rijkaard.
Cole in a Chelsea set up with teammates supporting him and hoarding Messi is different from a Cole in a more free flowing team, who already have issues of having to handle a Maradona, Kocsis, Keane and an overlapping Ziege whose pinpoint crosses can be scored even by a dummy doll, let alone the greatest header of all time.
Kocsis's biggest advantage is he can scores goals from both feet and head, he was not a Oliver Bierhoff whose game revolves is mostly defined by aerial prowess. His link-up with Messi will be something that honestly I don't think a 4-2-3-1 with Campbell and Ayala can handle.
Kocsis belonged to the great Hungary team where all the attackers where comfortable playing anywhere, interchanging places among attackers to an devastating effect. While at club he was a more central striker.
Bottom line being Kocsis could play as a forward, central striker and inside forward with equally devastating effect.
It will not be an easy task for your defense.
I have already mentioned in my tactics that how I am going handle the wingbacks
Last edited:
Talking about the lack of width, our game is more based on:
Once the ball is played into Messi/Kocsis, we will stretch enigma’s team through the advancing Gerets/Ziege. When Messi/Kocsis will receive the ball to combine with the advancing Gerets/Ziege, our movement will unbalance enigma’s defensive defensive line and allows us to get in behind the defensive unit to deliver from wide areas and finish on goal, as other side forward Kocsis/Messi spins out and makes a run into the penalty area.
Kocsis will hold the attacking line to occupy the Ayala/Campbell, creating space for the Messi to receive in between the lines to create attacking opportunities.
When Maradona is in possession, Gerets/Ziege will advance forwards flattening the enigma’s midfield line. Kocsis will occupy the Campbell and Ayala staying high. With the space created in between enigma’s midfield and defensive lines, allows Messi to receive in between the lines. If the enigma’s defenders step out to track the movement of Messi, Gerets/Ziege continue to advance and can combine with Kocsis as the opposition defence become disjointed. Feeding Kocsis with crosses to head. Both Ziege and Gerets are solid crossers of the ball, especially Ziege who had a mean cross from his left foot.
Once the ball is played into Messi/Kocsis, we will stretch enigma’s team through the advancing Gerets/Ziege. When Messi/Kocsis will receive the ball to combine with the advancing Gerets/Ziege, our movement will unbalance enigma’s defensive defensive line and allows us to get in behind the defensive unit to deliver from wide areas and finish on goal, as other side forward Kocsis/Messi spins out and makes a run into the penalty area.
Kocsis will hold the attacking line to occupy the Ayala/Campbell, creating space for the Messi to receive in between the lines to create attacking opportunities.
When Maradona is in possession, Gerets/Ziege will advance forwards flattening the enigma’s midfield line. Kocsis will occupy the Campbell and Ayala staying high. With the space created in between enigma’s midfield and defensive lines, allows Messi to receive in between the lines. If the enigma’s defenders step out to track the movement of Messi, Gerets/Ziege continue to advance and can combine with Kocsis as the opposition defence become disjointed. Feeding Kocsis with crosses to head. Both Ziege and Gerets are solid crossers of the ball, especially Ziege who had a mean cross from his left foot.
Some Key points:
Enigma does not have a pure striker, what he has are two brilliant support strikers who like to operate in the same area.
Matthaus in a 3-5-2 or 5-3-2, is different than Matthaus in 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4. If Matthaus is going to give all his time to Maradona it will live Rijkaard with loads of work to do. And remember Maradona in Napoli/Argentina did not had the likes of Messi and Kocsis, so it was easier to focus only on him.
- Rijkaard vs Maradona is a no-brainer.
- Ziege who is generally being underrated or being called terrible, needs to understand he was a someone really good with the ball in his feet either with his crossing, shooting or passing while also being someone with pack and stamina to track back and also had a strong tackle. One of the few players who was putting on good performance consistently for Germany during the dark era of 1990s.
Enigma does not have a pure striker, what he has are two brilliant support strikers who like to operate in the same area.
Matthaus in a 3-5-2 or 5-3-2, is different than Matthaus in 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4. If Matthaus is going to give all his time to Maradona it will live Rijkaard with loads of work to do. And remember Maradona in Napoli/Argentina did not had the likes of Messi and Kocsis, so it was easier to focus only on him.
- Rijkaard vs Maradona is a no-brainer.
- Ziege who is generally being underrated or being called terrible, needs to understand he was a someone really good with the ball in his feet either with his crossing, shooting or passing while also being someone with pack and stamina to track back and also had a strong tackle. One of the few players who was putting on good performance consistently for Germany during the dark era of 1990s.
@Lord SInister aside from the side itself you're doing a good job with the management side of things and good arguments being made. Kudos.
Thanks buddy.
MARADONA AGAINST THE MILANESE 4-4-2 (RIJKAARD)
“Maradona; when he was on form, there was almost no way of stopping him.” — Franco Baresi
“He was dangerous, he used to score against us often. We had to be very well organised; put pressure on him, doubling up, tripling up even to limit his talents. Because if it was one-on-one, you’d lose.” — Franco Baresi
“The number one: one of the best players in football history. He demonstrated with both Argentina and Napoli that a genius always wins. He could even play alone and win.” — Franco Baresi
“Maradona and Di Stéfano were the two greatest Argentinian players. Different, but the greatest. Maradona had more talent. Alfredo was just everywhere [on the pitch] at once,”
“Messi is the best in the world today but he lacks the personality of Diego. Maradona could play anywhere. It Italy [during Maradona’s era] they did not play beautiful football. It may be a bit better now but Italian football is very difficult, possession is hard to maintain. Yet, Maradona had the edge in Italy and in Spain. Nobody could stop Maradona.”
"We once played against him with Milan and totally dominated. Then Diego got the ball, shook off two players and set up Careca, who scored the 1-0 for them. I have never seen someone who was so decisive.” - Arrigo Sacchi
“Maradona is the best opponent I’ve ever played against in my career.” — Paolo Maldini
“The greatest player I’ve ever seen, way ahead of everyone else, including [Michel] Platini, [Karl-Heinz] Rummenigge and the rest. Maradona was a cut above.” — Paolo Maldini
“The best player there has ever been, better than Pele. I watched him closely in Italy every week and he was at a different level to everyone else. Some of the things he did were unbelievable. He could control the ball without looking, which meant if the pass was on, he would take it.” — Ruud Gullit
OTHER QUOTES
“A genius, a real artist, one of the greatest players in the world. He could win a match on his own. On his own.” — Sir Bobby Robson
“When Diego came to Argentinos Juniors for trials, I was really struck by his talent and couldn’t believe he was only eight years old. In fact, we asked him for his ID card so we could check it, but he told us he didn’t have ferit on him. We were sure he was having us on because, although he had the physique of a child, he played like an adult. When we discovered he’d been telling us the truth, we decided to devote ourselves purely to him.” —
Francisco Cornejo, youth coach at Argentinos Juniors who discovered Maradona [/QUOTE]
“It’s very difficult to be Maradona. The pressure he lives under, no one in the history of football has had to go through that.” — Jorge Valdano
“Diego is someone many people want to imitate – a controversial figure, both loved and loathed, and someone who provokes huge debate, especially in Argentina. In Mexico (in 1986), we had to stop him from training, otherwise he would have been at it day and night. Bilardo wouldn’t let him, as he said the altitude would take too much out of him. So the only conflict we had with Diego at that World Cup was with him wanting to do extra training.” — Jorge Valdano
“Some say Pele was the greatest player of all time, but not me. Maradona will always be the greatest. He won World Cup in 1986, narrowly lost in the final in 1990 and then in 1994 maybe would have won it again had he not been banned. The crucial difference with Pele is that Maradona wasn’t surrounded by great players; he had to carry the team himself. If you took Maradona out of Argentina they would not win the World Cup, but I think Brazil without Pele would still have won.” — Eric Cantona
“Diego Maradona was the best by far. [ . . . ] for me he is the greatest player of all time.” — Rudi Voller
“Even if I played for a million years, I’d never come close to Maradona. Not that I’d want to anyway. He’s the greatest there’s ever been.” — Lionel Messi
“Diego certainly had this peculiarity that he never complained about a tackle or a bad foul against him.” — Ciro Ferrara
“I’ve seen him play with the outside of his foot, instep, inner part of his foot, the backheel, the rabona, the bicycle kick. I’ve seen him do everything, every possible play imaginable, even the tunnel between the other player’s legs.” — Ciro Ferrara
“I was very lucky to be his team-mate and get to play with him as well as watch him train every day. The things he did! He was and will always be unique. Off the pitch, I always liked his simplicity. He was Maradona, yet with the team, he seemed just like an ordinary lad like the rest of us. He didn’t behave at all like a football star.” — Gianfranco Zola
“I want to salute Diego Maradona because for me he has been, and always will be, football.” — Francesco Totti
An example: Napoli 4-1 Milan (88/89) of Baresi & co.
“Maradona; when he was on form, there was almost no way of stopping him.” — Franco Baresi
“He was dangerous, he used to score against us often. We had to be very well organised; put pressure on him, doubling up, tripling up even to limit his talents. Because if it was one-on-one, you’d lose.” — Franco Baresi
“The number one: one of the best players in football history. He demonstrated with both Argentina and Napoli that a genius always wins. He could even play alone and win.” — Franco Baresi
“Maradona and Di Stéfano were the two greatest Argentinian players. Different, but the greatest. Maradona had more talent. Alfredo was just everywhere [on the pitch] at once,”
“Messi is the best in the world today but he lacks the personality of Diego. Maradona could play anywhere. It Italy [during Maradona’s era] they did not play beautiful football. It may be a bit better now but Italian football is very difficult, possession is hard to maintain. Yet, Maradona had the edge in Italy and in Spain. Nobody could stop Maradona.”
"We once played against him with Milan and totally dominated. Then Diego got the ball, shook off two players and set up Careca, who scored the 1-0 for them. I have never seen someone who was so decisive.” - Arrigo Sacchi
“Maradona is the best opponent I’ve ever played against in my career.” — Paolo Maldini
“The greatest player I’ve ever seen, way ahead of everyone else, including [Michel] Platini, [Karl-Heinz] Rummenigge and the rest. Maradona was a cut above.” — Paolo Maldini
“The best player there has ever been, better than Pele. I watched him closely in Italy every week and he was at a different level to everyone else. Some of the things he did were unbelievable. He could control the ball without looking, which meant if the pass was on, he would take it.” — Ruud Gullit
OTHER QUOTES
“A genius, a real artist, one of the greatest players in the world. He could win a match on his own. On his own.” — Sir Bobby Robson
“When Diego came to Argentinos Juniors for trials, I was really struck by his talent and couldn’t believe he was only eight years old. In fact, we asked him for his ID card so we could check it, but he told us he didn’t have ferit on him. We were sure he was having us on because, although he had the physique of a child, he played like an adult. When we discovered he’d been telling us the truth, we decided to devote ourselves purely to him.” —
Francisco Cornejo, youth coach at Argentinos Juniors who discovered Maradona [/QUOTE]
“It’s very difficult to be Maradona. The pressure he lives under, no one in the history of football has had to go through that.” — Jorge Valdano
“Diego is someone many people want to imitate – a controversial figure, both loved and loathed, and someone who provokes huge debate, especially in Argentina. In Mexico (in 1986), we had to stop him from training, otherwise he would have been at it day and night. Bilardo wouldn’t let him, as he said the altitude would take too much out of him. So the only conflict we had with Diego at that World Cup was with him wanting to do extra training.” — Jorge Valdano
“Some say Pele was the greatest player of all time, but not me. Maradona will always be the greatest. He won World Cup in 1986, narrowly lost in the final in 1990 and then in 1994 maybe would have won it again had he not been banned. The crucial difference with Pele is that Maradona wasn’t surrounded by great players; he had to carry the team himself. If you took Maradona out of Argentina they would not win the World Cup, but I think Brazil without Pele would still have won.” — Eric Cantona
“Diego Maradona was the best by far. [ . . . ] for me he is the greatest player of all time.” — Rudi Voller
“Even if I played for a million years, I’d never come close to Maradona. Not that I’d want to anyway. He’s the greatest there’s ever been.” — Lionel Messi
“Diego certainly had this peculiarity that he never complained about a tackle or a bad foul against him.” — Ciro Ferrara
“I’ve seen him play with the outside of his foot, instep, inner part of his foot, the backheel, the rabona, the bicycle kick. I’ve seen him do everything, every possible play imaginable, even the tunnel between the other player’s legs.” — Ciro Ferrara
“I was very lucky to be his team-mate and get to play with him as well as watch him train every day. The things he did! He was and will always be unique. Off the pitch, I always liked his simplicity. He was Maradona, yet with the team, he seemed just like an ordinary lad like the rest of us. He didn’t behave at all like a football star.” — Gianfranco Zola
“I want to salute Diego Maradona because for me he has been, and always will be, football.” — Francesco Totti
An example: Napoli 4-1 Milan (88/89) of Baresi & co.
This game should have been the final, really feel for @Enigma_87 as with a few more reinforcements he would be able to compete a lot better. At the moment the Campbell/Ayala partnership against @Lord SInister front 3 sticks out for me, although they are very good defenders you really need elite level defenders to stand a chance against that attack.
As mentioned earlier really impressed with LS's new lineup which uses Messi a lot better than last time.
As mentioned earlier really impressed with LS's new lineup which uses Messi a lot better than last time.
Franz Beckenbauer
Individual Achievement
4 Times German Footballer Of The Year
(1966, 1968, 1974, 1976)
2 Times World Soccer Player Of The Year (1972, 1976)
3 Times FIFA World Cup Team Of Tournament
2 Times European Championship Team Of Tournament (1972, 1976)
1966 FIFA World Cup Young Player Of Tournament
1974 FIFA World Cup Silver Ball
1966 Bronze Ball European Footballer of The Year
2 Times Silver Ball European Footballer Of The Year (1974, 1975)
2 Times European Footballer Of The Year (1972, 1976)
Bayern Munich's Greatest Player Ever
Bundesliga Greatest Player Ever
1994 FIFA World Cup All-Time Team
1998 FIFA World Team Of Century
1999 IFFHS Germany Player of The Century
1999 Bronze Ball IFFHS World Player of The Century
“Der Kaiser” Franz Beckenbauer is regarded as one of the greatest footballers ever in history of the game and the greatest German footballer of all-time. He originally started playing as defensive midfielder before moved to attacking libero which he controlled rhythmic in defensive able to advance on offensive mission with his elegant style of play. Beckenbauer was rated for Kicker magazine in 10.5 world-class seasons and 2.5 international-class seasons, He also once held the record the most appearances in top five of Ballon D’or with 10 times(before Messi Ronaldo monopoly started). According to German Footballer of the year voting, he also finished second place for four times, was German defender of the year for eight times. He was known for his leadership and effectiveness to read the game. Beckenbauer is not the greatest ever as defender but his creativity, passing, long shooting, holding with ball and defensive game led him as one of the most completed footballer the world has ever produced. He scored more than 50 goals for his career in Germany. Beckenbauer was voted 3rd, 4th and 6th World player of century from IFFHS, World Soccer and France football’s poll, respectively, was voted 3rd the best player in history of World Cup by France Football, was finished 2nd in UEFA Jubilee Poll as the best European footballer in last 50 years.
When looking back at great World Cup defenders there is one name that stands head and shoulders above them all. A man listed 3rd in the IFFHS ranking of the best players of last century, published in 2004. I am of course talking of West Germany’s finest: Franz Beckenbauer.
In 1959 Franz was fully aware that his youth team was about to be disbanded due to lack of funds, and like many of his teammates, had decided that they wished to join 1860 Munich. However, in the last competition his side were to play, they met 1860 in the final, a game which was far from friendly natured and Franz ended up getting into a fight with an 1860 Centre Back, and the ill feeling after this game convinced Franz and his team to owe more of a consideration to joining Bayern, which the majority ended up doing.
At the age of 18, in 1963, Franz was engulfed in controversy after it emerged that his then girlfriend was pregnant. Once it emerged that he had no intention of marrying her, the DFB banned Franz from the national youth side, a ban which was only overturned when German assistant manager Dettmar Cramer pressurised the DFB.
Beckenbauer made his Bayern debut in Germany’s second division against Stuttgart Kickers in 1964, playing on this occasion as a left winger. Bayern won promotion to the Bundesliga the following season, and soon became a major force, winning the German Cup in 1966-67 and the Cup Winners Cup as their inaugural continental silverware in 1967. Franz was handed the Bayern Captaincy for the 1968-69 and lead them to their first Bundesliga title, in the same season in which Bayern and Beckenbauer perfected the Sweeper or Libero system.
Beckenbauer also captained Bayern through the hat-trick of European cups from 1974-1976, which, I’m sure, you will agree is no mean feat.
Beckenbauer has spent the majority of his career under the nickname of “Der Kaiser”, translated as “The Emperor”. However, the origins of this term being used for Franz is unclear, with two origins being commonly cited. One which is actually retailed by Beckenbauer himself is that before a pre-season match in Vienna he posed next to a statue of Franz Joseph, an old emperor of Austria, and he was then apparently dubbed as “Der Fußall Kaiser” or “The Football Emperor”.
However, a report in a German newspaper gives a different story, stating instead that he got this nickname when he fouled Shalke 04’s Reinhard Libuda and moved before balancing the ball in front of disgruntled Shalke fans for 30 seconds, since Libuda was known as König von Westfalen (king of Westphalia), so the press searched for a greater name than king, thus leaving him known as the emperor.
Beckenbauer went on to play in the North American Soccer League for the New York Cosmo’s for four seasons, in which he won the Soccer Bowl (I wish I were the one who made that name up…) three times in 1977,78 & 80. After this spell he returned to Germany to play for Hamburg for two seasons, in which he won the Bundesliga title one more time, before returning to finish his career for the Cosmo’s.
He has the achievement of having been president, manager, coach, and player for the same club.
International level
For the West German national side Beckenbauer made 103 caps, scoring 14 goals. His international career began late in 1965 before he went to the World Cup in 1966, in which finals Germany were beaten to hosts England. He scored 4 goals at this tournament and was a joint top scorer from non attacking positions, which, for a player as inexperienced as he was at this level, is very impressive.
Beckenbauer returned to play a major role in the 1970 World Cup in Mexico, where he was a major force in the German team, including the game in which Germany came back from 2-0 down against England to win 3-2. Germany finished the tournament in 3rd place after losing to Italy in the semifinals, in a game which is widely believed to be one of the greatest ever.
Beckenbauer finally won the World Cup in 1974, beating the much hotly tipped Dutch “Total Football” side containing the likes of Johan Cruyff. This victory made Beckenbauer the first captain to lift the new Jules Rimet trophy (since Brazil were left to keep the trophy following the 1970 games). Beckenbauer had previously lifted the 1972 European Championships after beating the USSR. This made Germany the first champions of both tournaments, a feat that has only been matched by the France side of 1998 & 2000 and the current holders of both cups Spain.
Last edited:
WC 82: THE BEST PURE STOPPER ON THE PITCH DID TE JOB TO KEEP PLATINI UNDER CONTROL
(born 25 July 1958 in Mosbach) was a former German football player.
Karlheinz Forster is rated as the greatest man’s marker in history of the Bundesliga games. Kicker ranking rated him 1.5 world-class seasons and 7.5 International-class seasons. Forster was the most important player in defensive line of both VFB Stuttgart and Germany during the 1st half 1980s. After Germany had to be disappointed with 2 consecutive losing in World Cup final round, Forster feel his mission for West Germany should be enough and decide to retire from international competition in spite of his 28 year olds of age only and immediately moved to play in France. This regrettably led him not participate in World Cup 1990 which West Germany was able to win a title and he was still in very good performance with Olympic Marseille. According to German Footballer of the year voting, He finish finish 3rd place in 1986, was German defender of the year for four times.
The younger brother of Bernd Förster, Karlheinz took part in the 1982 and the 1986 FIFA World Cup. His defendings skills neutralized opponent players except in the finals; both times he finished runner-up with West Germany in these competitions.
The younger of two brothers in West Germany's UEFA Euro 1980-winning squad, Karl-Heinz Förster would outshine his sibling Bernd both in that tournament and throughout a career that brought him continuous admiration and adulation as one of the world's most irrepressible central defenders.
Aged only 21, Förster completely neutralised Belgian dangerman Jan Ceulemans in the UEFA Euro 1980 final to round off an exceptional championship. He would remain in situ for the next six years, accumulating 81 international caps and leaving his mark on UEFA Euro 1984, where the Germans exited in the group stage, as well as two successive FIFA World Cups. A Bundesliga winner with VfB Stuttgart in 1984, he left the club he had joined as a youngster for Olympique de Marseille in 1986, prematurely bringing his international career to a close, aged 28, as he did so. He bowed out at club level in 1990 in style by winning the French double.
On club level he played in 272 Bundesliga matches for VfB Stuttgart, scoring seventeen goals before he joined Olympique Marseille after the 1985–86 season. Olympique Marseille paid VfB Stuttgart 3.5 million Deutsche Mark for the then 28-year-old defender.
(born 25 July 1958 in Mosbach) was a former German football player.
Karlheinz Forster is rated as the greatest man’s marker in history of the Bundesliga games. Kicker ranking rated him 1.5 world-class seasons and 7.5 International-class seasons. Forster was the most important player in defensive line of both VFB Stuttgart and Germany during the 1st half 1980s. After Germany had to be disappointed with 2 consecutive losing in World Cup final round, Forster feel his mission for West Germany should be enough and decide to retire from international competition in spite of his 28 year olds of age only and immediately moved to play in France. This regrettably led him not participate in World Cup 1990 which West Germany was able to win a title and he was still in very good performance with Olympic Marseille. According to German Footballer of the year voting, He finish finish 3rd place in 1986, was German defender of the year for four times.
The younger brother of Bernd Förster, Karlheinz took part in the 1982 and the 1986 FIFA World Cup. His defendings skills neutralized opponent players except in the finals; both times he finished runner-up with West Germany in these competitions.
The younger of two brothers in West Germany's UEFA Euro 1980-winning squad, Karl-Heinz Förster would outshine his sibling Bernd both in that tournament and throughout a career that brought him continuous admiration and adulation as one of the world's most irrepressible central defenders.
Aged only 21, Förster completely neutralised Belgian dangerman Jan Ceulemans in the UEFA Euro 1980 final to round off an exceptional championship. He would remain in situ for the next six years, accumulating 81 international caps and leaving his mark on UEFA Euro 1984, where the Germans exited in the group stage, as well as two successive FIFA World Cups. A Bundesliga winner with VfB Stuttgart in 1984, he left the club he had joined as a youngster for Olympique de Marseille in 1986, prematurely bringing his international career to a close, aged 28, as he did so. He bowed out at club level in 1990 in style by winning the French double.
On club level he played in 272 Bundesliga matches for VfB Stuttgart, scoring seventeen goals before he joined Olympique Marseille after the 1985–86 season. Olympique Marseille paid VfB Stuttgart 3.5 million Deutsche Mark for the then 28-year-old defender.
@Lord SInister
On your graphic in attack why is Beckenbauer in the centre of the CBs? I thought you'd want him more in midfield
On your graphic in attack why is Beckenbauer in the centre of the CBs? I thought you'd want him more in midfield
@Lord SInister great work in explaining tactics. That front 3 look exquisite, but that goes without saying
Just one question. How would you deal with Di Stefano movement? Playing with no striker, but a false 9 is the biggest challenge for 3 at the back as you don't want them to disrupt their shape too much. And in terms of playing ability as false 9, I would put Di Stefano along with Cruyff and Messi as the best of all time. Will you send one of the defenders to track him, or let the midfield take care of him?
Just one question. How would you deal with Di Stefano movement? Playing with no striker, but a false 9 is the biggest challenge for 3 at the back as you don't want them to disrupt their shape too much. And in terms of playing ability as false 9, I would put Di Stefano along with Cruyff and Messi as the best of all time. Will you send one of the defenders to track him, or let the midfield take care of him?
The way i see it Kaiser will step up and deal with ADS and if you had to pick anyone to do that job it would be Kaiser.
But will see what LS has to say about it.
You have to take into consideration the two that are shielding them tho and they are the best at the job. Also LS flanks aren't tier 1 full backs either and they are facing one of the best in their position as well.
I find it surprising that a lot like Messi and Maradona in 5-3-2 since that is a perfect fit for Maradona but not for Messi.
Messi played at 5-3-2 for Argentina and there is far from convincing not to mention not to being the main man here.
In a 4-3-3 where he starts from the right or as a false nine is a lot different proposition where he'll see most of the ball. In this set up and with our midfield you have to ask how much chances he will get and how much of the ball he'll see to get to those attacking positions.
In a tight game a bit on Zico who without a designated marker is bound to have some joy.
Especially in a packed defence he's the best free kick taker in history. Not that Maradona/Messi aren't great but he is the one to probably put the ball in the net most of the time in dangerous positions more than any other in history:
Especially in a packed defence he's the best free kick taker in history. Not that Maradona/Messi aren't great but he is the one to probably put the ball in the net most of the time in dangerous positions more than any other in history:
The reason why not having a pure striker is exactly due to your tactics - if you went either with 4 at the back (two stoppers) or 5 like now - a complete forward like Di Stefano is great option to disrupt your defensive line at the back. He will pull defenders wide and create the space for Zico/Kalle and Figo - hence playing to our strength. I don't you are well suited to defending wide, especially on the left side where Ziege is, so there is bound to have space for our forwards.
Matthaus faced Maradona for the national team and at club level where it's fair to say that he has a lot of success neutralizing him but also being decisive in the final third. Germany didn't have Zico and AdS either so that's a bit of a moot point.
Maradona will be minded by Matthaus either way so Maradona vs Rijkaard is a bit of a moot point.
For all the flack my CB's are getting and they are indeed top ones in terms of modern times, Ziege sticks out as a sore thumb on the left in a position where he has to man pretty much the whole flank in two sides full of GOAT's. I wouldn't say Germany were in a dark era in the 1990's either and had some wonderful players in.
I think also Indnyc nailed with his comment in midfield. In a tight game most of the time it's the midfield that would win it for you. And as good as Keano and Tigana were they are facing the two of the top 3 midfielders ever. They would certainly limit the opportunities Messi and Maradona will get on the ball whilst also the latter being positioned centrally would make it a bit easier for us to defend against rather than Messi starting from wide position.
And a piece on Lothar:
nope. I did not got the time to make graphics, I was helped by Tuppet for making that, since at home my desktop is dead, and I have not yet repaired it
.Below is are some of the things about Beckenbauer to make you clear.
I suppose it will work, but I don't like Kalle's position at all. 4-4-2 with Iniesta would've worked best, I have no idea how it's possible to leave one of Zico/Di Stefano on the bench though
Very, very good team by @Lord SInister. It was a smart move to pass on Pele and another smart move to pick Förster - luck or no luck, his drafting is superb. Leaning towards his team at the moment tbh.
Very, very good team by @Lord SInister. It was a smart move to pass on Pele and another smart move to pick Förster - luck or no luck, his drafting is superb. Leaning towards his team at the moment tbh.
Our central defense and the midfield will be instructed to be ensuring that appropriate distances provide compactness and restrict the Zico/Di Stefano from exploiting space in-between the lines. and thankfully I have been blessed with two central midfielders who are top fighters aside being technically great midfielders, who dominate and destroy and mostly importantly they love to defend, they will not look forced into defending. And I have been lucky to get a defensive combination which has the best sweeper/libero out there and two great man markers with Forster being in the top bracket of being the stoppers and a one man army Japp Stam.
Last edited:
Let me have some fun...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/football-manager-90s-draft-1995-96-season.432656/page-47Ziege is 5 times man of the match and has the highest average rating in the league. I wonder if someone should tell Lord SInister in the draft game vs Enigma
@Lord SInister - he isn't a patch on Lefter guy that Edgar picked and stormed the league tho.
that is just me taking piss@Lord SInister - he isn't a patch on Lefter guy that Edgar picked and stormed the league tho.
.Didn't Messi play as a 10 in the 3412 for Argentina rather than as an SS?
When they played in 5-3-2 he was usually the SS.
Against Bosnia in the WC.
or with Masch dropping in CB:
When they employed a back 4 he was more of a #10/false 9:
In either formations he was the main man and focal point in the attack.
Tevez was pushed out wide often to make room for him being the central figure.
Here Maradona is the focal point and it's safe to say even with Messi as a focal figure in the 5-3-2 for Argentina he didn't had the best time in that formation.
People assume he'll have a lot of space (both him and Maradona), but that space will be well saturated with our midfielders and defenders when we're on the back foot.
Messi has never played with a designated #10 - not for Barca, neither for Argentina and never as not being the focal point in attack as he's depicted here, yet perceived he'll have the best game..
Small difference between having Gago and Mascherano supplying the ball as opposed to Beckenbauer and Maradona. A very small difference, but still.
1. Beckenbauer will position himself as a Libero to sweep and cover. Stam-Beckenbauer-Forster and Tigana-Keane will be instructed to be ensuring that appropriate distances provide compactness and restrict the Zico/Di Stefano from exploiting space in-between the lines.
2. Matthaus solely concentrating on Maradona is going to restrict his game much. If he tries to leave him, you will be facing a player who can dribble past all alone, and if you waste Matthaus, than you will be restricting him, and because of that Zico and Di Stefano, will have to drop deeper to get the ball, isolating Kalle.
3. Ziege in during 1990s before his injuries and misadventures was not some nobody. He was a part of a Bayern Munich and Germany side, who played a 5-2-1-2 or a variant of 3-5-2, where he had to man the whole flank, and he did with success winning a Euro, two league titles and UEFA Cup and even winning a first stage nominated for Ballon Dor.
4. Germany in mid to late 1990s did had many good to excellent to even great players, but the national team was not performing to the level of the teams predecessor to them, QF final exists in 1994 and 1998 and Ziege was one of those who used to perform in a consistent basis compared to other German stars of those era. Plus the team undeer Vogts is always seen as a Although obviously later with his injuries and form loss he would also get out of favour, but it should also be considered that 1996 Euro co-incidence with him peaking in the Euro 1996, not saying he was the reason, as Sammer was clearly the guy with Klinsmann, but the likes of Ziege, Babbel, Ziege and Eilts were the background workers who builded the platform, and Zeige is doing the same here, being the shadow worker for a team full of GOATs.
That's besides the point tho. Even if you take Barcelona's team - packed with greats like Xavi and Iniesta you have to take into consideration how vital is Messi to the build up and his playmaking duties in the team:
This is an excerpt for the number of passes in La Liga for example - only Xavi has made more passes than him.
Considering the number of touches he gets in their possession game and his position in the above 5-3-2, whilst also not being the main man and against a GOAT midfield surely he won't have the same number of opportunities as you think no?
When they played in 5-3-2 he was usually the SS.
Against Bosnia in the WC.
or with Masch dropping in CB:
When they employed a back 4 he was more of a #10/false 9:
In either formations he was the main man and focal point in the attack.
Tevez was pushed out wide often to make room for him being the central figure.
Here Maradona is the focal point and it's safe to say even with Messi as a focal figure in the 5-3-2 for Argentina he didn't had the best time in that formation.
People assume he'll have a lot of space (both him and Maradona), but that space will be well saturated with our midfielders and defenders when we're on the back foot.
Messi has never played with a designated #10 - not for Barca, neither for Argentina and never as not being the focal point in attack as he's depicted here, yet perceived he'll have the best game..
You are giving an example of just one game, and that also a game where Messi was the MOTM despite the cast support being nowhere near this fictional team of mine, creating one and scoring other goal, and Argentina after that pretty much abandoned after that match, and they did not played 3-5-2/5-3-2 again.
According to that he had 3 more passes than Dani Alves in a season.That's besides the point tho. Even if you take Barcelona's team - packed with greats like Xavi and Iniesta you have to take into consideration how vital is Messi to the build up and his playmaking duties in the team:
This is an excerpt for the number of passes in La Liga for example - only Xavi has made more passes than him.
Considering the number of touches he gets in their possession game and his position in the above 5-3-2, whilst also not being the main man and against a GOAT midfield surely he won't have the same number of opportunities as you think no?
It was tiki taka even the keeper passed more than some playmakers.
Thing with Messi is, like Pele, you can have him either as a playmaker, striker or both and expect GOAT levels. Especially against subpar defenders like Ayala who wouldn't have a clue what hit him.
Messi released of the creative duties and allowed to constantly run at the defense with elite service from behind is nothing but a nightmare. 99% of the time you won't get away after allowing Leo that kinda freedom.
Not just one game mate but plenty where his role is far different from the supporting cast one he has in here.
You are using Maradona as your main playmaker in that zone where Messi is given an auxiliary one. It's not a question of personalities certainly, but with a limited time on the ball Messi won't have the same Barca effect as depicted here under Guardiola.
Sure but the forwards like Pedro, Sanchez, Villa doesn't come close to the number of touches Messi makes. Defenders/midfielders usually would make much more in that Barca system having all the time on the ball and considering the build up from the back.
But Messi won't get all that freedom I'm not sure how you keep coming to that conclusion. I don't think Keane/Tigana will boss a midfield of Matthaus and Rijkaard. We will win the midfield battle and control most of the game. Maradona and Messi will have much less time on the ball than in tiki taka set up. Especially Messi will have even less considering he's in auxiliary role to Maradona and Maradona is the main playmaker.
Both will come in pretty saturated zone on the pitch it's not like Messi will always have the ball running at full pelt at our defenders.
It's not like Michael Laudrup is being asked to score goals.
Messi is arguably the greatest goalscorer of all time. It's another thing that he's also the best playmaker in the world along with that, but his playmaking is important in getting others like Neymar and all into the game not for his own game.
Plus Maradona isn't a ball hog, he's an elite playmaker who would constantly and happily provide insane through balls to Messi who can go on insane dribbling runs from anywhere on the pitch. Rijkaard wont allow him to drop from midfield but there's sweet feckall he can do when Maradona finds Messi 25 yards from goal with a straight run at those CBs. It's something that I can see happening very often in the game and that's a killer.