One touch quick transitioning from defence to attack is something none of the midfielders currently do in the double pivot so he definitely has something to offer in that position.
An example:
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An example:
Fred gets bashed a lot here but there’s a reason he plays every game. We lack aggression and Fred compensates for lack of mobility from Pogba and shaw. He’s always covering left back for shaw
Completely agree. Instead we relied on Fred to dictate the tempo against Wolves but it’s hard to imagine anyone claiming that that was anything less than a complete disaster. We got the win, but we got the win despite Fred. Against a club like Wolves we can much more comprehensively dominate possession with Donny making those outlet passes instead of Fred getting dispossessed over and over.
Donny is no defensive beast and when facing City City I’ll go with McFred every time, but when preparing for hapless chum like Wolves — winless and scoreless — the decision to go with Fred over Donny was borderline suicidal. I’m not going to call it luch because the goal was deserved and De Gea was magnificent, but we could easily be sitting on 4 points out of 9 from three mid table (at best opponents) because of Ole’s stubbornness in persisting with a vastly inferior Fred over Donny.
If Fred were a defensive beast we could bear his dire ball control but I seriously doubt anyone here argues that Fred is a defensive beast.
Who says there are only 2 options? I’m simply highlighting opposite ends of the spectrum. My posts are lengthy enough without now being penalised for not covering every possibility.
Remove Raiola from the discussion & we have a players agent disclosing a private agreement because his player, who hasn’t shown that he deserves more game time when he gets it, isn’t playing. There’s a debate to be had whether VdB has been given enough opportunities but the defence, ‘it ain’t as bad as Raiola doing. . .’ is hard not to tune out as overly emotional rhetoric.
You can’t take issue with my post then set the parameters, severity is not the issue. Agents don’t have to speak out, he chose to which aligns his actions with those of other agents that ‘go public’. I’ve agreed that Raiola’s words/actions are ‘worse’, severity is irrelevant - the action of mouthing off in front of a microphone is.
What exactly do you need me to say you’re ‘right’ about to move this along?
See, I knew you could write in paragraphs.
Per the bolded, you're a hypocrite. Never did I say I don't like Pogba.
Severity does matter. No one cares Raiola gives interviews, it's what he says and does that annoys people (and I gave numerous examples of things he's done that upsets people which you're unable to sympathize with).
Both agents are acting in the interest of their clients. One is going out of his way to be respectful to the club, the other shits on every club that stalls one his clients.
Agents are there to represent and act in the interest of their client. United isn't being forced to play VDB, but if they don't, they're more likely to help facilitate a move later on. This isn't disadvantageous to the club.
Why do you think so many what to shift VDB on here if he continues to not play? They're United fans and it's in United interest to cash in on his value and get him off the wage bill if he isn't contributing. Albers doing nothing and letting VDB sit on his ass 'till his contract runs out would be more detrimental to the club.
Earlier you said "stop speculating you don't know what Ole told VDB upon signing". You'd have to live in lalaland if you thought he was happy signing a multi year deal to be a backup, only to realize that's wasn't for him a year later on. He's a Dutch international that had a myriad of options and is actively seeking loan moves to get game time.
But yeah, please resort to some more ad hominems and keep thinking Albers = Raiola because they both give interviews
I’ve written in multiple ways throughout this thread. Why are we continuing this if you’re going to insist on starting your posts with misinformation. All from a guy who continues to use the bold function like a junior school student uses comic sans [see we can both repeat jokes].
It wasn’t funny the first few times.
“Paragraphs”, HaHa. Move on.
I’ve addressed this in earlier posts. If Severity were the issue why did I have to mention the word for you to cling to it. Yawn.
Mate I get it, HE OFFERED POGBA TO LIVERPOOL. Again, this emotive nonsense has been addressed already. Raiola is ‘worse’, doesn’t make VdBs agent less outspoken though. Irrelevant.
Agents are indeed their to represent their agents. We agree.
So many assumptions throughout though. Letting people know he wants out if not played could lead to lowball offers but let’s ignore that cause you’re a know it all.
Again, further & further from where we began. His agent can be a gobshite & still facilitate a future move so I’m not sure why that matters.
Who said he was happy to sign on as a back up? All we do know is he isn’t playing & when he has done he’s not been good enough.
If we’re doing assumptions, I highly doubt he was told he was guaranteed to play in every game even if he ‘flops’. OgS isn’t in the position to punish players because he doesn’t like them, if he’d been better he’d play more.
’Lalaland’ indeed.
Another cretinous straw man argument. I’ve explained my views in this thread multiple times, by all means don’t agree with them, Ive not said it’s because the “both give interviews”.But yeah, please resort to some more ad hominems and keep thinking Albers = Raiola because they both give interviews
ad hominem. . . ok lad.
Same question to you. What do I need to say you’re ‘right’ about to move this on?
But severity is the issue were discussing. If there is a spectrum with Raiola on one end and anonymous agents on the other, then Albers is somewhere in between. Claiming Albers is there at the extreme end together with Raiola is exactly the sort of emotional rhetoric you mention. (As is referring to his statements as 'mouthing off' and calling him a 'gobshite'.)
If your categorization consists exclusively of agents that do and do not speak on public, then sure. It wouldn't be very meaningful though, like pretty much any black/white division.
if you want to move along, you can at any time of course. No-one is forcing you to keep responding.
For example:The. End. (tm)
Using female references might be a good start. See her user tag.
You're fuming so much while typing, you're insults have become like Adam Sandler films. So shit, they're funny.
I concede the argument. Albers is like Raiola, because he gave an interview disclosing an agreement
I get that you're upset about the Pogba insults (you falsely accused me of disliking him), but man, Paul would shake his head at this.
Just an assumption, I know
Claiming Albers is there at the extreme end? I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve called Raiola ’worse’. Keep creating arguments lad.
It doesn’t. Addressed already.
Says the lad that interacted with my post.if you want to move along, you can at any time of course. No-one is forcing you to keep responding.
The. End. (tm)
I’m quite enjoying the charade of you regurgitating my own points at me, it’s illuminating.
It’s an equal rights forum. If she had a problem she could have said, how nice of you to care though.Using female references might be a good start. See her user tag.
Looks like you’re fuming so much you’ve forgotten how to format a paragraph & we know how much that upsets you.
I’d say thank you but that must be the straw man you’ve been arguing with for 2+ days.I concede the argument. Albers is like Raiola, because he gave an interview disclosing an agreement
Guess you can only say the same thing a finite amount of times.
But. . .
That’s not you [again] using the bold function then saying why people don’t like Pogba.
That’s the trouble with posters who tie themselves to a position creating false arguments. You forget your own drivel.
If you think this is fuming at the keyboard then you missed a treat in the George Floyd thread last year, true rage in there.
On a high note, well done not using the bold function. I knew you could do it. Glass Houses.
This reply is more phoned in than Bruce Willis' acting.
You're lying about what you previously said, mind. Now you're saying Raiola is worse than Albers.
Saying "VDB is a virus, get rid" implies that his agent having a conversation with the press (and in your mind pressuring the club by disclosing an agreement) is why people dislike Raiola and Pogba.
So you've clearly changed your opinion based on the discussion we're having. I'm glad I could convince you.
Shitty thing to say about either United player. I'd give you an infraction were I a modmin, but you won't see me crying to scouts about it.
You’ve likened me to Bruce Willis & Adam Sandler, I’ll take it.
The rest, the ramblings of a gaslighter. Move on.
That wasn't obvious from your posts, but in that case, I will happily concede that Raiola has too often said things that create a bad vibe and difficult vibe around his players, while Albers has done nothing of the sort through his comments. There!
That's exactly what I said a number of posts ago ('it's fun now'), so I guess this is where you finally got to see my side.
I can't believe you have even managed to turn that little comment into a negative!
(I had expected more like a 'thanks for pointing it out', but no... )This thread should just be locked to prevent further embarrassment for everyone involved. What a ridiculous last few pages.
Oh, I totally agree.
Not that there is anything new to say about Van de Beek though. It's amazing how many forum pages (including last season) have been devoted to a player that plays as little as he does. It's the 40M price tag I suppose. But anyway, for that reason, I figured we might as well babble about agents for a bit. @AFC NimbleThumbOh, I totally agree.
Are you going to take this lying down?
Bored and looking for things to stir up?
(We're having a good chat by pm btw. No harm done anywhere.
)People talk about Fred slowing our tempo down but maguire leisurely walking around the pitch with the ball like a high schooler with his hands in his pockets does it more for me than anything.
I'm writing a paper on the role of the gold standard, and monetary policy more generally, during the American Great Depression. How could anyone be bored?Bored and looking for things to stir up?
(We're having a good chat by pm btw. No harm done anywhere.
(Also it's very annoying that people write literally a million pages when most of the pages are uninteresting.)
Well, where to start on boring... OK, not really. I can recognize the uselessness of most writing though. I remember the days of spending hours upon hours in libraries copying articles, and then scanning over most of them in under five minutes to realize there was nothing of interest to me. Finding, copying, and adding the article to my database literally took me more time than my engagement with its contents in many cases.
But I'll stop on that subject before I rush this thread off into yet another mad ramble that this time isn't even remotely connected to everyone's favorite Donny boy. (@Hansi Fick)
I think the main reasons why people are calling for him to be in the starting 11 are because Fred has started the season poorly, VDB has not been given a real chance in the team playing with first team players on a regular basis, and the fact that we've looked terrible at stitching together play from midfield when under a press.
I'd personally rather Ole try to integrate him into the lineup than buy another run of the mill midfielder who may or may not fit into the squad. There's no stand out players we could be aiming to buy who'd slot in straight into the team who won't cost an arm and a leg. Besides, the window has closed. I'd rather Ole and his staff actually try to make do with what they have. It's not as if VDB is some youth player. This is a guy we bought for 50m who has played in CL knockout phases ffs.
Fabrizio Romano who is one of the top football journalists at the moment (if not the top journalist) and can often be seen on Sky Sports and other TV channels, regularly comes to Mark Goldbridge’s show to provide transfer updates and insider information. His United Stand channel has over 1.1million subscribers.
I don’t know Mark Goldbridge personally and don’t always agree 100% with everything he says. But I wouldn’t publically call him an imbecile and question another member’s credibility for posting his videos.
@ghagua post whatever you want, everybody’s entitled to their opinion.
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He didn’t cost £50m surely?!
I agree Fred has been plainly showing his weaknesses. But, of course, VDB is not the same sort of player as Fred at all, he has a whole different set of weaknesses. If we do play VDB in CM he has to play with Fred or McT to achieve some sort of balance.
The idea of playing VDB is not bizarre if we think he’s going to do a good job alongside the right CM partner. The point I’m making is that there is no evidence that he can do a good job.
If we’re saying we should just try him anyway, why not try my mum in there - she hasn’t been given a chance yet either; I exaggerate, but it’s not a sound argument to say “he should be given a chance because he hasn’t been given a chance”. He has to earn it. Which he may do, gradually, over the course of the season.
I still think he can become a more-used, more-valuable, more-effective squad player, getting 20-plus starts and establishing himself as a reliable sub option. The quicker he can get there the better but on past performance he is nowhere near it.
He's an imbecile because he is famous for his exaggerated views, puns and other services like watching him play FIFA. Romano only goes on his show because its advertising him.
Theres a reason Stretford Paddock gets meaningful guys in like Rio Ferdinand for example. Goldbridge has terrible outlooks and is famous for just being over the top in his views, nothing else.
100% this. Goldbridge is a classic example of the saying 'opinions are like arseholes. everyone has one'. Don't fall for his BS takes where he talks like he knows more than the manager of man united. Its just to rile up his base and garner attention and views.
Coming back to Donny, I really think Ole sees VDB as an attack-minded player. The problem is he is not better than the attacking players we have. So he can't get into the team.
I dont think you can just replace fred or mctominay with VDB. I believe he will struggle to do the job that fred/mctominay does.
Terrible outlooks and exxagerated views is your biased opinion just because you either don’t like him or don’t agree with what he says.
It’s very easy to call someone an imbecile and question their credibility while hiding behind a keyboard and an anonymous nickname. A lot harder to put yourself out there and create a show that is followed by over a million people, over many years of hard work and sacrifice.
Good that you mention Stretford Paddock because it’s also a good channel to follow. They have less followers than Mark but I find the guests that they bring to be equally as good. I wouldn’t call Rio any more meaningful than a Romano or a Christian Falk. I like listening to both and they each bring something different to the table: one is a former player the others are some of the best journos out there.
It’s a matter of taste in the end.
It's not biased at all. He says stupid things round the clock and that's quite widely thought of by most people. Of course he has a respectable following because he's entertaining, but he's not got the hype because of his sensible views. Far from.
Half of his super chats are like "can you call my mate a prat for me" because his abuse to the people watching the stream has become a huge selling point. He's just daft all round, thinks he knows about football but changes his mind all the time.
A personal favourite was his anger at people buying United football shirts because it funds the Glazers. The guy is so dim he doesn't know many people get replicas from other mediums
Theres nothing biased about my views by the way. If I think something is shite there isn't an agenda behind it. Not sure why you're trying to dictate that narrative.
Firstly Mark Goldbridge isn't even his real name so it's ironic you mentioned anonymous nicknames.
Second, no one is doubting he's done well to get a platform for himself. What I'm saying is, it's based on exaggerated views and entertaining insults. Not actual footballing substance, which is best served on Stretford Paddock or Kick Off.
Mark Goldbridge just gets annoyed and refuses to read chats if people disagree. And his entire show is himself and a bunch of nobodies who nod their heads and agree with him. He can't actually debate with a fellow fan because hel be found out, it's not his forte. His established record isn't on proper footballing views but just exaggerated insults.
That's why that other bloke, his right hand man, left to do his own thing. It's why other platforms like The Kick Off will get Adam Mcola in and not him. It's why Skysports won't turn to him but will go to Stretford Paddock.
It's not about subscribers is it. It's about content. If you want to see an armchair fan who doesn't go to that many games, sit at home give insults then Goldbridge works. If you want footballing content where they go to all the games, debate with fellow supporters week in week out, and have actual knowledgeable players on the game then go for Paddock.
Paddock have even got time with SAF at his premier for his movie, Skysports turn to them for their fan representation, other platforms like Kick Off debate with them all for one reason. They actually debate football. Right or wrong is another matter I disagree with a lot of what Adam or Steve Howsen say from that show but I respect their views because it's reasonable in the way they discuss it.
Goldbridge though is trash, he's just a guy with a big media following from his puns, insults and rants. Not actual purposeful football talk.
Anyway, this is a Donny thread and I digress.
Fred is definitely not the player who slows the tempo down, if anything he's the player who moves the ball fastest, from our midfield for sure. You also need players who are press resistant and can carry the ball forward or play a defence splitting pass and that's why Maguire or Pogba spend more time on the ball.
Good thing is to have a balance between one touch football and ability to keep control of the game and build more pragmatically without losing the ball after few passes.
You disgress after writing 11 paragraphs to discredit Mark Goldbridge? You sure do know a lot about him for someone who doesn’t like him.
Bottom line: are the United Stand or Strettford Paddock banned by the admins here? It’s the mod’s job to say so if that’s the case. If not, then I don’t see why members should be shamed or made to feel less credible for posting links from these sources. If you disagree with their content then just ignore it or say that you disagree.
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Mark's co presenters do go to the games and talk to fans outside.
United Stand gets guys like Fabrizio Romano, Paul Ince, Teddy Sheringham on the show, are they not meaningful?
Adam Sandler’s movies are indeed so shit they’re hilarious. But his work on SNL — especially Opera Man and Cajun Man — are legendary.
Donny’s got so much spare time due to a manager who refuses to play him that Donny might as well watch old Adam Sandler skits.
Donny’s got so much spare time due to a manager who refuses to play him that Donny might as well watch old Adam Sandler skits.
Time better spent watching Uncut Gems.
On topic, I don't really get the standard argument on this forum that Donny hasn't shown anything when he has been given a chance. Obviously we can't speak as to what he has shown on the training ground, but largely when he has played he has looked OK.
I get why he can't get into the attacking line up, and yes I agree "OK" isn't good enough for Man United, but I would think it would be good enough for him to get a chance in midfield over our other options. Fred has great energy but gives the ball to the opposition in dangerous areas several times every match. Matic is too slow. McT is injured. I don't see the big downside in putting him next to Fred for now.
Fred can disrupt the opponent, Donny to quickly transition the ball to the attack. Yes, he is good near the box but he isn't going to displace Bruno. I don't see how this works though unless Bruno and Pogba stop leaving a massive chasm between them and the defence like they did last match.
Tbf of all the people to prove your point I'm not sure these are your best bet.
The United Stand = Match Day Thread
Stretford Paddock = Is the United forum safe to go into yet thread safe to go into yet Thread
He used to be an all action player when with Ajax. He has lost confidence since he came here.
Maybe he just needs that arm around him and a few nice words in his ear to bring back that confidence.
Then 2/3 good games could start him on the road to becoming a very good player for us.
But I really think Ole doesn't trust him yet, or if he ever will. Has to prove himself this season or he will be sold off next year.
Maybe he just needs that arm around him and a few nice words in his ear to bring back that confidence.
Then 2/3 good games could start him on the road to becoming a very good player for us.
But I really think Ole doesn't trust him yet, or if he ever will. Has to prove himself this season or he will be sold off next year.
The reason I'm not so "lets sell VDB if he isn't playing" is because you do wonder if our next manager after Ole will be a more tactically all rounded manager that aims to get the best out of a team as a whole.
You wonder if VDB can do well in such a scenario.
At the same time, I do wonder if he is a bit like the younger version of Klassen - valued at Ajax and not much anywhere else.
You wonder if VDB can do well in such a scenario.
At the same time, I do wonder if he is a bit like the younger version of Klassen - valued at Ajax and not much anywhere else.
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