Agreed. Like you, i love Lynch's work, but Villeneuve's "show, not tell" approach is a much better fit for the large scale and the epic scope of Dune. Lynch is an idiosyncratic filmmaker whose abstract visuals and love for the surreal are not exactly a perfect match for this type of story. It just feels that his reality and the reality in which Dune exists are worlds apart. Splitting the book in two films was another good decision from Villeneuve as it allows the viewer to take it all in.
Film Dune
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Rewatched the first one over the weekend and really confirmed my initial thoughts that this one isn’t as good. It’s actually significantly worse IMO.
They are just so different. I think Part Two suffers a bit from a lack of world building, because so much plot happens in a short amount of time. I loved that aspect of the first one. But I think the new one has more memorable acting performances. Chalamet and Ferguson has a lot more to work with, and Bardem is so good.
If I was to sum it up, I'd say the first one wins on world building, cinematography, atmosphere and pacing, whereas Part Two wins on action sequences, set pieces, acting, and sound design.
I actually didn't mind Walken as the emperor. From everyone's negative comments, I thought he'd be terrible and out of place, and I was waiting for him to mess up scenes. But that doesn't actually happen, he's fine. It's also nice (I think) that they didn't just take the predictable stately type of actor for the role, I think it adds to the character that it's him, looking old and fragile.
Both are really great, basically.
I definitely appreciated first one more on second viewing so the same might be true when I rewatch part two.
I’d like to just class it as a 5 hour movie. A bit like how I do with Kill Bill.
If a cinema decided to show them both back-to-back with just a short break for refreshments, I'd be all over it.
Yeah, I had no problems with Walken playing the Emperor. I actually thought it was a nice touch because I always imagined the Emperor a bit like an aged Walken myself, although its been 20 years since I last read the original three books. The more I think about it today, the more I think the acting was excellent.
in the books the emperor is supposed to look 20 something if I remember correctly
Although I too didn’t mind Walker. He wasn’t great yea but wasn’t terrible either.
In the books, it is said that Shaddam IV has the appearance of a man in his early-30s because of spice consumption when he chronologically is 72 years of age by the time the war on Arrakis began. It is pretty much normal that going such distance would be too weird the common mortal, especialy when past portrayals of the character were already given to other old actors.
I also didn't mind casting Christopher Walken. People may not like his casting, but we also need to remember that his presence in the Dune universe is so limited regardless. His role was one of a man weakened by the feuds between the houses, especially the one between House Atreides and House Harkonnen. He did okay for the very little part the character had on-screen.
Watched it today. It was good, I probably preferred the first one though. It started and ended well, but the middle section felt like it was throwing quite a lot in at once though.
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Just got back from seeing it. It’s a fecking masterpiece of filmmaking. Probably the best science fiction film of all time. An absolutely ridiculous achievement of filmmaking. 10/10.
Already considerably more than the first. I’m a little surprised by how much hype they managed to generate around this considering the first one performed slightly underwhelmingly. Hopefully means Villeneuve gets to do more films like these, whether Dune 3 or something else. There was a danger of studios losing faith in him if Dune hadn’t been a success after BR2049 disappointed (despite being a masterpiece).
His next project is Rendezvous With Rama (Arthur C. Clarke) so yeah he is pretty much deep in the sci-fi genre at this point..
Dune 1 was released when we were still feeling the pandemic squeeze and more importantly it was simultaneously released for free on HBO max. Considering those two factors it performed superbly at the box office. Indeed its performance was so good under the conditions, that they decided to make Dune 2.
Denis Villeneuve is probably the best director working today. He’s going to be able to make whatever the feck he wants after this.
I meant more that it didn’t seem like there was that much buzz around it back then (it did sell well in the circumstances). It wasn’t a meme-generating phenomenon in the way the sequel has become, so I’m pleasantly surprised by the enthusiasm around this one.
I wish more adaptations had as much faith in the source material as Dune. Yes, they made changes but the core of the story and characters is there. We need some of that in some of the shitty TV we are getting, I say as I feel exceedingly underwhelmed by 3 Body Problem.
He was great. The audience really needed that type of character, someone to puncture the seriousness.
It was a weird omission, since Mentats are the result of not being able to create machines in the likeness of man (or however they phrase it), which will also dilute the importance of Ix, if and when they get to it in a sequel.
I think they had to condense time. Showing Paul's son and Chani pregnant and Aliya growing up works in the book but I think in a cinematic experience, you can't really leave the action and have a title card reading "5 years later" without losing momentum.Saw it yesterday, thought it was mostly very good but wasn't super blown away by it as a whole.
I though visually it was excellent. The acting and the way it's presented is all top but like others have said it felt a bit rushed which is tough for a nearly 3 hour film.
I mainly wasn't sure about plot changes from the books (spoilers ahead) as they've obviously massively sped up his time with the fremen. Paul has an infant son (who is killed when the sietch is raided, giving it all more emotional weight) and Alia is born and is like 4 or 5 in the books? So he's there for years. He also falls into a coma after drinking the water of life, whereas here he's just... unconscious for half a scene? It loses its impact.
It essentially becomes a film about some OP guy who barely gets a scratch laid on him for entire franchise (until the final fight needs a bit of drama). I know it is quite like that in the books but it took a lot more time.
Also as people have already said, rubbish villains really. I know it's kind of the point in the books that the fremen numbers are so high that if they believed and rallied they'd outnumber them easily but the battle (whilst looking incredible) was over so quickly it felt like we were deprived of more of that spectacle.
Rabban was also pointless, just screaming in every scene before dying in the world's shortest fight. I mean if you're gonna go down the cliche action route of "Well look who's back from the dead" vs "I'm avenging everyone you killed", at least make it a fun fight to watch? They build up this history between them and then it ends in two swings of a weapon. Same with the baron. I can't even remember how he died in the books and I know killing him wouldn't be hard but they had Paul basically come in and euthanise him.
Also I know he's very much a believer in the books too but they turned Stilgar into a meme basically. People in the cinema were laughing at most of his scenes which felt a bit out of place for an otherwise serious movie that didn't really use dark humour.
I didn't intend to write all thatbut yeah, enjoyed it still. Sandworm bits looked incredible.
EDIT: Also found it weird they left out Feyd trying to cheat in the final fight. I thought they were planting seeds for that with the drugged prisoner thing because he clearly didn't want to fight them 'fairly' but it just didn't happen.
The Beast Rabban is a pretty thin part to begin with, I thought Bautista did well with it. The whole point of the Harkonnen viciousness is that Paul and the good guys are 1/4 Harkonnen. The Bene Gesserit wanted that ruthlessness bred into the "messiah"'s bloodline. Rabban is kind of a cartoon, but he's also a background figure in the book.
Riding the sandworms they made look kinda like big wave surfing, which I thought was a good change, plus having all the sand blowing around while it's happening, was a good change. Riding the worms has always looked bad in the previous Dune works.
Sicario is pretty much a perfect film, brilliant. Both Dunes stuck together might also make a perfect film, but I was also a bit let down with Part 2.
BR2049 did not feel slow or long to me.
Sicario is brilliant. Agree that Prisoners is below the others. I'd also put Arrival well below Sicario.
The perfect description.
It is so overdone, it's in every trailer, and they still have it every time something big or powerful appears on screen.We were talking about this, and they never showed in the previous Dune why it was better to say a word, wait 5 seconds for a wild shot to be squeezed off, instead of just pointing a gun and shooting it. Probably better leaving that shit behind. It think the whole "weirding way" was more important, but they'd have to show these Fremen fighters suddenly doing wire fighting style stuff, and I think it would not fit the vibe.Like the weirding module
*Leonardo DiCaprio has entered the chat.*
Walken wasn't great, but better than Abel Ferrara.
Someone mentioned in this thread that the Harkonnen are basically cartoon villains in the book, and I think that's pretty accurate. There is very little to them beyond 'evil psychopaths' and it would be hard to add further depth to that in the film. Maybe they could have merged Rabban and Feyd-Rautha though. They both have little to go with now, so merging them might have given a single character with a little more definition. Or do away with Rabban and replace him with an anonymous Harkonnen leader that has a purely functional role (like the many generals in Star Wars); although Rabban does have his own character and not having anything like that in the various scenes he's in wouldn't make the film better.
What did you think of the decision to show Giedi Prime scenes in black and white?
In the arena, I kept feeling like we were about to watch a pod race starring a young Anakin.
I think with how they did it in this film, Feyd Rautha came through more as the candidate that the Bene Gesserit favored, over Paul. I thought Austin Butler was good in the role, too. In Lynch's version, Sting was way over the top (as was everything in that film), but it was certainly not clear that the Bene Gesserit wanted Sting to win instead of Paul. Rabban and Feyd-Rautha were both the Baron's nephews, right? I don't remember if they were brothers or cousins, and I don't remember if they ever said who their parents were in the book. Maybe Villeneuve streamlined all that family bloodline royal succession stuff because ultimately he realized the two characters were cardboard, no matter how much screen time they were given.
They also didn't show CHOAM at all.
That story is really similar to Arrival. A strange choice for him. Clarke had to make a sequel to Rama (Return to Rama) because pretty much nothing happens in the first book. To wit: a mysterious object approaches earth, later determined to be a perfect cylindrical alien spacecraft. A crew investigates it. They see a bunch of things but don't understand what they are seeing. Suddenly, the lights dim, and the humans leave. They try to blow it up with nukes, but it gets away. The end.
I thought it was great. Mad as feck, but great. Story doesn't go anywhere yet goes everywhere, and it's great. Last battle is too short, but still great. Some of you lot just like moaning for the sake of moaning, but I also think you're great.
I'm officially sold on the idea of Squintothee Chandlerface being a leading actor now. Dude went through a proper journey in this movie from timid little kangaroo mouse into a leader.
I'm officially sold on the idea of Squintothee Chandlerface being a leading actor now. Dude went through a proper journey in this movie from timid little kangaroo mouse into a leader.
I loved the Giedi Prime esthetic. Very clear fascist overtones and as such pretty on the nose, but I thought it worked great.
Yeah, Feyd-Rautha was well done and I didn't mind the portrayal of Rabban myself; but if course I've re-read the book recently, so I'm probably unconsciously filling in gaps in my mind for things others might consider missing in the film. I was just trying to think of what could be done about them both being fairly flat characters, and merging them might have been an option. That obviously require other changes as well though, as then Feyd-Rautha can't have his introduction in the arena anymore. And yes, I think they're cousins. I don't think it's even explained in the book in full detail.
Anyway, yes, Feyd-Rautha was favoured because he's part of the Bene Gesserit's original plan. If I remember correctly, the Bene Gesserit idea was for Paul to be a girl, so Paula and Feyd-Rautha could together produce a Kwisatz Haderach that would do the Bene Gesserit's bidding. As Jessica didn't follow orders and Paul can't be controlled, the Bene Gesserit therefore now have to continue with Feyd-Rautha without the Atreides line.
That's right, I had forgotten that bit. Timmy Clams is pretty feminine, so that should have come through.
Side note: a long time ago I worked with Kyle MacLachlan for a few months, and was able to geek-out on Dune and Twin Peaks and Blue Velvet and other things with him. As stiff as he was in that role, I think there was something missing in Tim's performance. Kyle at least acted like he'd done military training, and Tim is so thin and small (although a much greater actor).
Is that your nickname for Timothée Chalamet?
I'm not sure it was mentioned in the film, but probably it comes up somewhere along the line. Maybe in the first film when Paul is tested by that Bene Gesserit elder. It's not that he's half a woman though. Apparently, a Bene Gesserit can simply decide what gender her child will be, and Jessica chose male.
I was waiting for Rabban to say or do something silly in every scene he was in. No idea why you'd cast him in a role where he's supposed to be a violent madman and make him look identical to Drax.
Yeah, we couldn't decide how his name was supposed to be pronounced. Is it "Teemo-tay Shallah-may" ? Then we went to "Timothy Tchalla-Mett", and eventually we settled on "Timmy Clams".Is that your nickname for Timothée Chalamet?
I think he's a pretty decent actor, for what it's worth. That opening scene in Blade Runner showed that the guy isn't just another Dwayne Johnson. Even with his smart part in that Bond movie where I think he only said one word (sheeeet), he still came across as lethal.
"Teemo-tay Shallah-may" should be pretty close
Yeah, I thought that was a nice little role he had at the beginning of Bladerunner 20whatever. Not the usual ex-wrestler stuff.
He was much more convincing than the knife licking baby headed dork
Not meant as a knock on his ability, I really like him, but he just looks like the exact same character (though, granted, pale instead of purple).
Hey, that knife licking baby headed dork has a name. It's Mr Pretended He Was Elvis Simply By Sneering For The Entire Elvis Movie.
I know what you mean. Especially in that opening scene where Timmy Clams fights the Harkonnen in the desert and Bautista was just standing completely still eating zargnuts the entire time.
He was a bit ott yeah. They should've cast the dude that played Viktor Zsasz on Gotham.
Though I might just lazily be thinking about him because he has no facial hair.
I've just remembered something else about the movie. It was refreshing to see a new film that didn't have the word "feck" every three seconds. It seems like every writer nowadays uses swear words to portray serious events or mature characters.
Finally watched it. What a bloody amazing film.
BBBRRAAAAAMMM
I just saw this..all I can say is wow. I think I need to reread the books now.