But some will continue to blame Ole and want him out, whilst letting Ed off the hook.
Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition
- Thread starter fallengt
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The thing is, and actually take a moment to muse on this -
The two aren't mutually exclusive...
It's perfectly legitimate to hold the opinion that Woodward is an absolute clown and needs to go, while also holding the opinion that OGS is a joke of a manager at this level and needs to go as well.
After all... OGS is simply another one of Woodward's decisions.
It's also perfectly legitimate, if not thinking in binary, to accept the following two notions -
1. OGS hasn't been backed fully in the window
2. OGS should be definitely getting more out of the squad that he has got
Again, those two points aren't mutually exclusive.
The problem, is that within a tabloid culture society, that is also in the midst of a day and age of incredibly strong divisive politics, people tend toward this strange logic of, 'if I think X is a baddie, then Y must be a goodie', and of course vice-versa.
OGS not being given a new striker and midfielder, doesn't in any way shape or form explain away his utterly woeful footy, results and apparent inability to coach a coherent unit in the PL (a very demanding league which he's utterly failed in previously).
And Woodward employing a manager who wouldn't be employed by any other PL club, doesn't absolve him (Woodward) of the blame for dismantling the squad in order to save money for his anti-Utd overlords.
They're clearly BOTH inept at the footballing side of their jobs, it's clear that neither is good enough for a mighty club like Man Utd.
Fans need to become United (pun intended) and simply accept that this isn't 'goodie vs baddie', rather this is a situation where both must go.
I am firmly 'Woodward out', and, at this point, I am also 'Ole out' - the fact that I like Ole as a man and dislike Woodward doesn't change that.
Oh I do agree with you. I've said numerous times that Ole isn't good enough. However, what I don't want to happen with our 5th manager is to get the sack, with Ed keeping his position. Ed has clearly shown he is out of his depth.
In an ideal world, Ed concentrates solely on commercial aspect of the club. Rangnick and Mitchell are installed to look after the footballing sides of things. Money is made available (apparently there is £300m sitting in the bank) for them both. They would invariably bring in a new coach, someone like Nagglesman and we beging to challenge again.
This way we would have a BETTER chance of competing again and the stock of the club rises, which in return means the Glazer's would be sitting on a wealthier asset. If I look at it purely on the business sides of things, if we were performing like City had for the past 6 years, which we should have been by the way, we would have been clear and away the most valuable sports franchise. I base this on us being one of the most valuable sports franchises, and haven't really done anything of note in the past 6 years.
Every other successful team has a director of football. Someone who drives not only the transfer market but the manager, etc. And that line would not go through Woodward but directly to the owners/boards as in the other clubs. Not a dotted line. This is where the problem lies as I believe Woodward wants total control of everything. Which has been shown to be a disaster. And a great manager of people/companies empowers people and their strengths for success. Doesn't kneecap them or micro manage as Woodward does. The Glazers are worried about $ coming in more than winning and the current structure supports that. Because a director of football is a no brainer if you want success on the pitch.
Even this doesn't come close to getting at just how bad he is.
It's taken years for the 'he's a financial wizard' nonsense to die down amongst the hoi polloi. Sure, to the average person of course he looked like it.
But to anyone who moves in that world, literally from day one he was regarded with contempt.
A great article by an unlikely source, Jamie Carragher.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ris-not-manchester-uniteds-saviour-has-power/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ris-not-manchester-uniteds-saviour-has-power/
Pay-walled. Can you post it?
There you have it. Business as usual. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
I've slept since watching it, and i'm not putting myself through that nonsense again, anyhow everything has been countered numerous times before.
Can you save the shit-stirring for the playground please, there's far too much of that garbage on here of late.
I stopped at the title and decided to not read the article. Can't take anymore of this BS. Club is going nowhere with him in charge.
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My friend worked at Heathrow at the time and got a picture with Ole a week before Jose was sacked as well.
What a cop out... if you disagree with what was put forward in the video, which was mainly facts, please state why.
Sorry @Class of 63 but it is a bit of a cop out by not saying why you don't agree with the video! Like I said, I just find it interesting to read what the counter argument is, because for me, the way Ed has managed the footballing side of things since he's been in charge, is the biggest reason we are failing to compete.
Can't be true can it? It's too ridiculous for words. I know a lot of sneaky stuff happens in every workplace, but on that scale it just seems a bit farfetched.
The one thing in the video which stood out to likely be bullshit is the share price vs performance talk.
The second is that he didn't speak much about the lack of investment of recent years. Just said that we have spent poorly.
The third is that Woodward doesn't actually decide on which players to buy
The fourth is that we apparently do have a transfer committee and have invested in building a large scouting network, so the structure has changed.
I think its not a great video because it actually doesn’t go into a lot of facts. I do agree with the sentiment though but the video isn’t great and doesn’t back up its theories with many facts
1st point - why is the performance v share price talk bullshit? When there has been massive unrest amongst the fans, the share prices have been effected. When is there massive unrest amongst the fans? When there are poor performances on the pitch.
2nd point - I don't think the point of the video is for him to go too low level. Go too far in, you're more likely to lose the attention of the audience. But whether it's lack of investment or poor investment, both for me, it remains that it has been poor.
Third point - Woodward does decide which players we buy. It is widely known that Jose wanted Maguire but didn't sanction the move last year, to then pay over the odds to sign the player. Don't forget, he came out last year and said he'd pay £100m for Varane but didn't want to pay Leicester the money they were asking for Maguire. Yes, Ed is given his choice of which players the staff want to sign but he then decides whether to sanction the money.
Fourth - this is very unclear, as it has repeatedly been reported that Ed has been looking to sign a DoF/TD to be part of a committee but ultimately, it is he who decides who to sign.
He has revamped the scouting network but again, we all know how that's been working. No ONE single player has been a success in his tenure. What does that say about his scouting network?
The one thing I do believe which has been good under Ed, in turns of football, is the academy. They have started to come back up to where we should be. Also, the ladies football team is great to see. He got in one of the best coaches and it really showed in our promotion last year and in the games we've played this year...even against two of the best teams in the WSL.
The first point. If you check how the market has been performing during that time in general you will get your answer. Unless you think United performances were affecting the overall market...
The fourth point, Woodward doesn't pick the players. He only signs off on the amounts.
My point was the video isn’t very good. I agree with the sentiments but he hasn't made the case well is all I am saying.
It was just a strange thing to come out with otherwise. He knows all the Co92 and quite a few current players that are from Manchester. At the time Ole was temporary. He also knew Phelan was staying on, think there were rumors at the time that he wouldn't accept the job permanently because he didn't like the structure.
How throughly depressing and a clear sign that Woody hasn't a fecking clue if true then. People putting forward the names of all these forward thinking modern managers and expecting that clown to take notice of them.
Hmm. It's a strange one. Because there was no reason for us to make him permanent when we did. I definitely can see a scenario where Woodward had scouted available options while Jose was struggling, got knocked back by anyone decent such as Pochettino, so went for a former United man to get the fans onside but kept it quite lowkey to see how things panned out. If the fans had immediately kicked off about the appointment, as Ole was under qualified, perhaps he would have ushered him out but The Perfect Storm occurred and somehow the form sky rocketed giving Ed the standing to make it official.
Woodward just really had to wait till the end of the season which was the original plan because they didn't want to get this appointment wrong. The fact that we fell off a cliff afterwards and still are shows that it was a massive mistake.
Everyone can see the issues at our club, besides most of the 'Ole Out' and the 'the better the devil you know' brigade.
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Nobody is blaming Ole for Lukaku in terms of depth. I feel that letting Lukaku was mistake but i trust manager to decide what type of players he needs so it is on Ed why he didn't buy another striker. But letting Alexis on loan after deadline is on Ole 100%
Basically saying what anyone with a clue has been saying on forums for fecking years. But they’re experts and get paid silly money for repeating what we’ve been saying over and over. Still, glad it is being given a bit of exposure instead of listening to the deafening silence from ex players Neville, Beckham, Giggs etc for fear of ruining their chances of getting on the gravy train.
Agree. But again, the fans now need to unite and put pressure on Ed. No point debating about managers as we've seen we've had every type of manager and failed.
Like the ex lfc players saying, United have no direction, so pointless buying talented players who don't fit in
Utter Bollox. He just over rules the manager yet again to make short term financial gains for the glazers.
Unreal how some don’t see it.
If I was a player I’d prefer not to play for a club run by this clown unless I was only interested in money, sounded like Klopp was concerned about working with him, Jose clearly had enough also.
At this point I don’t think having a DOF will help us. Whoever would be appointed wouldn’t be given full powers by the snake Woodward. He just doesn’t want to relinquish control
Yea, Ed would be just power hungry. I just can't see a proper DoF able to work with Ed being in the position he is in. I just do not understand how Ed keeps failing and not realising what he needs to do! Can the Glazer's really be happy with their asset not reaching its full potential, especially after spending some eye watering prices? He's an intelligent guy, why take all the abuse and have his reputation so tarnished?!
What is this absolute nonsense that people who want Ole out think thats the only issue? Why just make things up
weird people on here.Glad to see some are finally getting the message. DOF is meaningless with this prick pulling the strings and ruining the club.
Regarding your last comment mate, I can only think that the owners are taking whatever short term profits they can before they sell. Hence the total lack of care or vision on football matters. Wish they’d feck off, the sooner the better. Never mind this “better the devil you know“ bollox. They’re an absolute plague on the club.
This is rich coming from someone who calls themselves 'Judas'. The pot calling the kettle black comes to mind!What is this absolute nonsense that people who want Ole out think thats the only issue? Why just make things up
I really hope there is something in selling the club. But the issues at the club could get resolved so easily, or at least have a chance of being resolved, if Ed would just people who know what they're doing, do their job.
Absolutely perfectly said. Get Mitchell and Naglesman in and let them work. We need to be shouting this from the rooftops because Ed and the glazers would never make such a logical, good decision for the club. A proven director of football and a young, progressive coach like Klopp was, with modern tactical ideas.
Also we should be thinking of good candidates to buy the club and generate exposure of fan desire for those. Not the saudis.
The guy Sir Jim Radcliffe could be a good option. The Red Knights who showed interest a few years back. Or a billionaire who promised that the club would be debt free, would spend more and would have a director of football. Ideally a fan of the club.
These are things we need to seriously start talking about and putting out there.
The club's problems run deep and it's a shit show from top to bottom. Difficult to know where you even start.
The thing is, if you isolate Ole from it all and ask 'do you think he's the right man for Manchester United manager?', I'd say absolutely not and it's a matter of time before it ends in tears. I'd bet my mortgage on it and I think it would take a miracle for him to turn it around, given his capability.
Problem is, will sacking him make much difference, given who is in charge of recruitment and would the new manager be given a better chance? Not likely to be a huge change. Much better/more experienced managers have failed under the same regime and built up possibilities like Poch and even Zidane, look pretty risky at the minute too.
So in my mind I don't 'want' him sacked, I love the guy but it's a situation I don't see any long-term future in. I can handle not winning things but the club has absolutely no direction or hope whilst we have the current owners/board etc.
What a mess.
The thing is, if you isolate Ole from it all and ask 'do you think he's the right man for Manchester United manager?', I'd say absolutely not and it's a matter of time before it ends in tears. I'd bet my mortgage on it and I think it would take a miracle for him to turn it around, given his capability.
Problem is, will sacking him make much difference, given who is in charge of recruitment and would the new manager be given a better chance? Not likely to be a huge change. Much better/more experienced managers have failed under the same regime and built up possibilities like Poch and even Zidane, look pretty risky at the minute too.
So in my mind I don't 'want' him sacked, I love the guy but it's a situation I don't see any long-term future in. I can handle not winning things but the club has absolutely no direction or hope whilst we have the current owners/board etc.
What a mess.
Yes, we should be discussing this more as supporters and we should be bringing this into the media more. Yes, we need to be going after young and progressive football management, including DoF.
In regards to owners? I'm comfortable having an owner who wants to run us as a business. It means if they were to ever leave tomorrow, we would still be self sustaining. I hear what many say about Glazer's. For me, Glazer's have failed massively on the football side and reinvesting in OT. Neither seems to be changing, so we as supporters should be putting pressure on them!