Looks like we might escape with a draw looking at that weather forecast. Honestly don't fancy England to make more than 250.
England Cricket Winter 2017/18 - Ashes & NZ
- Thread starter ArmchairCritic
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Not the way he scores, just the way he gets him.
As I said, great player - but each to their own.
I never called him boring once.
Moeen Ali should've been given out. Bad decision.
England's lower order has been a disgrace.
Our middle pack havent been too bad but our openers and lower order have been terrible. As soon as Anderson and Broad got out there you knew we didnt have a chance.
Its been such a underwhelming tour. Having just moved to Oz i've had a chance to watch a lot of it and England have been a shambles. Outside one good innings from our bowlers we've not had anything to write home about. I just dont see anyway back for a number of our players but our selectors will probably still go for them
Humiliation for England.
Absolute and Total.
Absolute and Total.
5-0 coming up surely
It's not about skills it's about mentality. I know Broad was hit by a vicious ball but that's not an excuse to play like an idiot.
"We haven’t been blown away", he said after first losing by 10 wickets and then by an innings.
He does kind of have a point though. England were well within the first test over the first 3 days, had a shot at the win in the last test and a shot at the draw in this test. I mean it's still pretty shit but definitely less shit than the last tour, that was the definition of being blown away.
Interesting stuff from Finn which aligns to one of my rambles on the last page really:
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21790065/county-grind-sucks-pace-england-quicks-steven-finn
Wonder who got that idea into his head
.Maybe selectors should be more selective in protecting and managing workloads for these types of bowlers. It shouldn't be a thing that even enters the mind of a fast bowler.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21790065/county-grind-sucks-pace-england-quicks-steven-finn
There was no shot at a draw without weather.
England were blown away in the third test.
Well beaten in the other two
England were blown away in the third test.
Well beaten in the other two
On a basic level Bayliss has to go. The test team has not improved under his watch, and the glaring inability of any of our players to bat long and convert scores has to be pinned on the coaching staff. It wasn't an issue before he turned up, it has become one since he has been here.
But beyond that the issues are deeper set, Andrew Strauss has been a disaster as director of cricket for the test side, but I imagine he'll remain because it seems like this is the direction that English cricket is being pushed in. How England react will show where their priorities lie; I suspect that it's not with the test side anymore.
But beyond that the issues are deeper set, Andrew Strauss has been a disaster as director of cricket for the test side, but I imagine he'll remain because it seems like this is the direction that English cricket is being pushed in. How England react will show where their priorities lie; I suspect that it's not with the test side anymore.
On Australia: I'm pleased they've got the Ashes back doing so without really looking like losing a match. Yes, they were under some pressure in Brisvegas and Adelaide but they held their nerve and won both tests comfortably. The selections of Paine and the Marsh brothers were contentious but the selectors have come up trumps there unlike the series against South Africa last year which saw South Africa seal the series after two tests. The only concerning thing for me is what will happen to Australia if Smith is dismissed cheaply. Australia's quick bowling attack was fast, accurate and lethal, unlike their opposition. Nathan Lyon has also thoroughly got the better of his opposite number.
On England: Cook, Anderson and Broad are done. Vince, Malan, Bairstow, Woakes and Overton are all worth persisting but need improvements. Ali needs to be dropped as he's not doing enough with bat and ball. With the ball, he's not threatening enough and i don't think he's good enough with the bat to justify a place as a batsmen unless Stokes is absent for a very long time. I also think they could well reach a point where they've got to make a decision on Root and whether or not the captaincy is too much of a burden. Australia were probably going to win the series anyway but the absence of Ben Stokes can't be underestimated. His absence though is all self inflicted.
On England: Cook, Anderson and Broad are done. Vince, Malan, Bairstow, Woakes and Overton are all worth persisting but need improvements. Ali needs to be dropped as he's not doing enough with bat and ball. With the ball, he's not threatening enough and i don't think he's good enough with the bat to justify a place as a batsmen unless Stokes is absent for a very long time. I also think they could well reach a point where they've got to make a decision on Root and whether or not the captaincy is too much of a burden. Australia were probably going to win the series anyway but the absence of Ben Stokes can't be underestimated. His absence though is all self inflicted.
Do you think things would have been better with Jason Gillespie as coach and Michael Vaughan as director of cricket? That's the head coach director of cricket combo i would have gone with when England sacked Peter Moores in 2015.
The presence of drinking culture which it seems is there in this English team needs to go, it's as simple as that. It's well and good saying that Botham etc did it in 80's and still won but fitness wise it's not helpful at all plus with the invention of social media, any little misdeed is gonna get reported and blown off.
Personnel wise, they've got a solid base in mid order with Root, Malan, Stokes(if or when he comes back) and Bairstow. Stoneman has been fine. Cook and Vince could be improved upon. Their bowling is a main issue. Need to get a proper spinner in first of all. Ali isn't good enough as a proper spinner. Also look to replace Broad IMO. There's absolutely no need for Woakes, Stokes and Ali to play together. They can easily drop Ali or Woakes and get a specialist bowler/spinner in.
Personnel wise, they've got a solid base in mid order with Root, Malan, Stokes(if or when he comes back) and Bairstow. Stoneman has been fine. Cook and Vince could be improved upon. Their bowling is a main issue. Need to get a proper spinner in first of all. Ali isn't good enough as a proper spinner. Also look to replace Broad IMO. There's absolutely no need for Woakes, Stokes and Ali to play together. They can easily drop Ali or Woakes and get a specialist bowler/spinner in.
IIRC Gillespie didn't fancy the role and wanted to spend more time with his family in Australia. Vaughan might have been one of our most successful captains but listening to his punditry I think a lot of that was down to inheriting a side coming into their own at the time.
If Vaughan's public opinions are anything to go by then probably not; the man comes across as an utter buffoon.
Not sure on Gillespie either. He was my choice at the time, but his white ball record is inauspicious and, to his credit, Bayliss has done good work with the team on that front. I'd be tempted to split the two roles going forward tbh.
I'd say that Woakes is comfortably the 3rd best pace bowling option (possibly 2nd best given how shite Broad's become) in the country. His batting is just a bonus. He's had a difficult year with his summer ruined by injury and seems to be very rusty on this tour, but he's definitely not getting games because he's a bit part player.
Think the overall drinking culture image is unfair. Woakes, Cook, Ali are all teetotal for instance (as is Mark Wood). The players clearly needed to be smarter however in wake of the Stokes incident. They're not raging alcoholics and their fitness is good, they've just proven to be extremely naive.
Most of the good work Bayliss has done was seemingly done by Fabrace before Bayliss even got with the team (i.e. Stokes @ 6, ODI turnaround etc.). I'd be tempted going forward to have specialised coaches for the test and limited overs stuff. Their needs are increasingly divergent and the next test coach needs to clearly spend a lot more time watching county and identifying the right talent for the test team.
What's gone wrong with Broad's batting? I remember him being able to bat,but these days he just looks like a walking wicket..
I think Cook also should take a break and come back to the team refreshed.. He seems to be stuck in a rut these days.. I remember people thinking he was going to break Sachin's most runs scored in tests record.. Not that I'm complaining about his slump!!
I think Cook also should take a break and come back to the team refreshed.. He seems to be stuck in a rut these days.. I remember people thinking he was going to break Sachin's most runs scored in tests record.. Not that I'm complaining about his slump!!
Got his nose broken by Yadav and has been scared of the ball since.
Cook, Broad and Ali need to go, but Root and Bayliss don’t have the balls to drop them
The only bad thing about the series being over decided after three tests is that Bill Lawry's return to commentary comes when there are two dead rubbers. Also a chance the last two tests could be the end of Bill Lawry's commentary career too. The great man is 80 and might not be up for doing more commentary after this summer.
Australia are had and shoulders above England at the moment. 4 bowlers better than anything England has and with Smith on form they can even carry Warner on less than his best form.
England are going to do well not to lose 5-0
England are going to do well not to lose 5-0
Johnson plus Yadav destroyed him and its hard to get batting back after what Broad went through.
When Greig and Benaud went i was sad but honestly when Bill goes i will be devastated, He was the crazy, enthusiastic cricketing grandpa most Aussies my age had and his constant enthusiasm will be missed.
Onto the Ashes, Australia have been far too good in all departments and England outside of a few performers have had a shocking series.
Anderson is a all time great but when it does not swing he does not take wickets, Broad has been down on pace and Intensity too.
On Bill, yesterday, i had a look at some highlights of the 2nd hit and giggle international against Geelong just to listen to his commentary. That night, his excitement as Sri Lanka looked like they might win from nowhere made me interested in a game of hit and giggle i didn't have one iota of interest in. ''Garry'', as he's now known might have been right about Australia ending some careers - Cook and Anderson are done as i said earlier in this thread and Broad doesn't have much left either.
What a dire performance. Bookies should start paying out for 5-0 predictions.
Actually don't know why I didn't put a decent sized bet on that before the series started.
Actually don't know why I didn't put a decent sized bet on that before the series started.
Who's getting scapegoated for this 5-0 whitewash? It was all KPs fault last time remember.
Bayliss.
No one said it was all KP's fault, he was and still is a d**k. There were a whole range of issues on that tour, Swann, Trott, Prior etc. The whole thing was an organisational mess. It was the coach and captain who paid the price at the end of it.
Apparently SA is the only team to win a test in Australia in the last 5 years, which shows that you need a good fast bowling unit in those conditions.
We have to be careful not making knee jerk reactions. First of all, England didn’t have a single bowler available capable of bowling 90mph and/or a World class spinner. Australia have 3 bowlers bowling 90mph and accurately, AND the World’s most underrated spinner. It’s the first time I’ve seen a side with 3 or more bowlers capable of bowling 90mph since the great Windies sides of the 70’s & 80’s. The truth is England never stood a chance, no matter what the selectors or team management did.
What England should be looking at is stimulating variety of conditions in the domestic game in order to produce fine batsman, fast bowlers, swing bowlers and spinners. After all these decades the ECB still haven’t got that right.
What England should be looking at is stimulating variety of conditions in the domestic game in order to produce fine batsman, fast bowlers, swing bowlers and spinners. After all these decades the ECB still haven’t got that right.
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I was surprised how quick Hazlewood bowled - i don't remember him being that sharp. Conversely, i don't actually think Cummins is as quick as he was made out beforehand.
I have a big issue with Moeen. We are not blessed with spin talent but you get the feeling he's got the nod based on the fact he can bat a bit. There are numerous better options.
Having said that, he was never in any danger of being dropped once Stokes wasn't selected which massively weakened our middle order.
I'd stick with Anderson but i think it's time to phase out Broad and give a left armer a chance for some variety.
Cook is in terrible nick but there are few other options to open.
I have a big issue with Moeen. We are not blessed with spin talent but you get the feeling he's got the nod based on the fact he can bat a bit. There are numerous better options.
Having said that, he was never in any danger of being dropped once Stokes wasn't selected which massively weakened our middle order.
I'd stick with Anderson but i think it's time to phase out Broad and give a left armer a chance for some variety.
Cook is in terrible nick but there are few other options to open.
Such a shame Jofra Archer is not eligible for England until 2022-23, was hitting 90mph in the Big Bash League today. Shocked the West Indies have not managed to persuade him to come and play for them yet.
Really, even though his dad is English?
It's what it says on his profile on Cricinfo, I suppose if England really want him in the side then they'll craft a way to do so.
Starc is out injured for the 4th test
Feature on Bill Lawry ahead of his return to the commentary box.
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/feat...ampions-pigeons-cricket-retirement/2017-12-24
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/feat...ampions-pigeons-cricket-retirement/2017-12-24