There is literally no point in this match. You're either first or you're last in a knockout tournament.
I think Belgium win if both strongest teams are played.
I think Belgium win if both strongest teams are played.
England Discussion | Finish 4th
- Thread starter Samid
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The result is indifferent, but it's a chance to watch an extra match, and for England fans to celebrate doing as well as we have in the tournament. Third or fourth place will be a great building point going into future tournaments.
Hopefully in four years time many of the young England players will have realised their potential, giving us that extra bit of quality which we lack at the moment.
Hopefully in four years time many of the young England players will have realised their potential, giving us that extra bit of quality which we lack at the moment.
After the semi final loss I wasn't bothered in the slightest about this. I'm now actually quite looking forward to it, the lads deserve a good send off
As I mentioned somewhere else before England were not fancied before the tournament (even by there own fans ) they have done extremely well and no matter the outcome they finished in the top 4 in the world feck the begrudgers and take a bow lads! And for the record I'm Irish I would love it if our lads could achieve anything near that . Well done England .
Why would people not bother with 3rd? It's not like England is a regular WC semifinalist. Or is it just merely resign that Belgium will tore a new one?
Exactly. Weird attitude for fans, Journalists of the team that didn't even win a single KO game before this world cup.
Looks like manager of both teams don't share the same opinion. They want to finish as high as possible.
Because 3rd is nothing to celebrate in a cup competition. You're a losing semi-finalist, that's it. 3rd/4th? Whatever, nobody really cares or remembers anyway.
Lineker and Klinsmann were talking about it earlier this tournament and they both said something along the lines of playing in the 3rd place play-off was amongst their worst sporting experiences, just awful to be there. That's been true ever since it was implemented - it's not for the players or the sport, it's for the money.
Can’t imagine their league managers being pleased at those players being risked unnecessarily after a gruelling tournament then straight back into pre-season. An extra weeks rest for those coming back is meaningless especially if they come back with knocks or serious injuries that will derail their season or at least the beginning of it.
I know Southgate doesn't intend to, but I would play those players who have not had a full game, to be honest. They deserve it, since they have all been part of the good spirit and conduct of the team.
I think considering expectations and quality of the given team the far better example would be Netherlands 4 yrs ago. If you can find their players complaining about the 3rd play-off and actually winning it, then I'll concede my point as far as players' approach goes. For fans, at least those I speak to in real life, it's a fantastic game they're looking to.
Half the England fans I know are not even going to bother watching. I will and I hope England win but I'll watch any old friendly.
This is what Van Gaal said about the this fixture before the Holland v Brazil game 4 years ago:
“I think this match should never be played and I’ve been saying this for 10 years. So, in a football tournament particularly not at the last stage you shouldn’t have players playing match for third-fourth place. Because there is only one award that counts and that is becoming world champion.”
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-soccer-world-m62-ned-arg-playoff-idUKKBN0FF03620140710
That's very selective though and defnitely not the only thing he said. Of course it's a meaningless match, but Van Gaal was taking it very seriously, wanting to win, doing his best to motivate the team, and fielding his strongest line-up. Other than that quote, I clearly remember Van Gaal stressing in his pre match conferences that it was a unique opportunity to leave the World Cup unbeaten and give it a nice ending and what not. He also loved to point out he finished 3rd afterwards.
A lot of Dutch players from the 1998 generation who lost the match for 3rd place against Croatia also pointed out in the media how it only made the end of the tournament worse for them ending at low after playing so well, some of them even contacted the 2014 squad. At the time in 1998 they didn't care after a devastating loss to Brazil in the semi's, but now with hindsight they'd much rather have won that match for 3d place and they really urged the 2014 squad to try hard.
This is a good chance to beat a strong Belgium side who are also going to be unmotivated, and winning it and taking the pointless bronze back home will be a much more positive foundation for countless of reasons.
England should care. Whatnot of being in SF after 2 decades of a nothing NT in terms of WC.
Surely you don't want to be the worst semifinalist?
Even in group stage, none want to be the last in the group.
I'd rather win it for sure but it's no big deal either way. Nobody ever remembers who wins these things.
I thought it was a very good tournament and still is imo.
However, losing the only 3 tough games they played and beating the other semi-decent team (Colombia) by pens doesn't sound good at all let's be honest. England only beat Panama, Tunisia and Sweden in the 90 minutes in this Cup, somewhat disappointing and will always be said about this team when one say they reached the semis.
They still need a lot of work to challenge the good teams.
However, losing the only 3 tough games they played and beating the other semi-decent team (Colombia) by pens doesn't sound good at all let's be honest. England only beat Panama, Tunisia and Sweden in the 90 minutes in this Cup, somewhat disappointing and will always be said about this team when one say they reached the semis.
They still need a lot of work to challenge the good teams.
Belgium both times was with a heavily weakened side in pretty much dead rubber games, let's not forget that. Though I'd wager they'd beat us 9 times out of 10 full teams out anyway
But yeah overall, it's a bit flattering to finish 4th. The best thing about it all is caring about the English team for the first time in ages, and Southgate handling the terrible UK media really well. I enjoyed that overall, that's enough for me
Pretty underwhelming team. Rubbish in open play and only got to the last 4 because of the luck of the draw. Very flattering.
For English fans this would be a memorable wc but reality is they were poor and lucky to be in the semis. Brazil and Uruguay both were unfortunate to be in the other end of the draw. I would say even Portugal would have caused this English team trouble.
At best you can say that they won't suffer embarrassing losses against minnows like Iceland anymore though. That's an improvement, but they haven't shown they can hold their own against top teams. The 2020 Euros will be interesting for England.
Who cares?
England didn't win it and that's all that matters.
England were found out in the end as not good enough. As soon as they played anyone of noted they lost.
They wouldn't have got past Uruguay on Frances side of the draw.
England didn't win it and that's all that matters.
England were found out in the end as not good enough. As soon as they played anyone of noted they lost.
They wouldn't have got past Uruguay on Frances side of the draw.
Pretty much.
I was in doubt that Kane could lead us to anything all along anyway. He scores goals, but he isn't as brilliant as people like to make out at anything other than that. He went missing in all 3 knockout games really, that's what lack of service does and I don't see what players we have coming through that can change that too much yet.
I agree.
That midfield was bobbins. Shelvey is better than the midfielders that went.
Lost to who we’d expect to lose to (these days) and beat those who’d we’d still expect to beat (just). Had a lucky route and wasted a fantastic opportunity with imho the wrong manager. Essentially we’re still crap and if we get a semi difficult group in the euros this will be proven.
Great World Cup. Well done to Southgate.
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Is this world cup going to create a new false sense of hope and expectations for this England team and Southgate? In reality they never really looked anything beyond an average side who got a really good draw and I don't exactly think he did anything great either apart from downplay them to the press.
Obviously getting to the SF was great for the fans but going forward they shouldn't expect much, but probably will, and thus the cycle of misery will resume.
Obviously getting to the SF was great for the fans but going forward they shouldn't expect much, but probably will, and thus the cycle of misery will resume.
Yeh. Anyway. It's been a fun tournament for England fans (me included). A bit of luck against Croatia, it could be even better.
Considering I was expecting a group stage exit I’m happy that we got to a semi final (easy run or not because tournament football is about luck of the draw as much as it is beating the big teams) for once we did better than expected. There wasn’t the typical JT/Rooney “England expects” type press conferences so I would say this WC has provided some solid foundations going forward, it’s up to the players and the managers to make sure it’s not a flash in the pan.
No. Well, mostly no (save the usual idiots I guess).
Don't keep buying into the media shit and all the it's coming home stuff, most of us are sensible enough to know our place at the moment. Sure we are more confident that we can actually improve and make progress for once, but when push comes to shove we are a long way from actually beating the best teams and even competing. In fact Hoddle said it best during the game today, we are a good number of years behind Belgium in our building.
Average team made it as far as they could with the kind draw. Ultimately, struggled against decent oppositions.
Still lot of work to be done.
England has a decent defense, young quality keeper and a good attack with Kane as a world class striker. But the hole in midfield is huge. In any case Southgate must remain a coach.
4th place is perfectly suited for an overachieving team with perpetually low expectations. (or is that the other way round?)
See, perhaps someone can explain this whole expectations thing when it comes to England?
On the one hand we are supposed to beat Croatia because they are much smaller than us, on the other we aren't supposed to have expectations to do that? It's like people just want to have a pop and don't even think for a second about what is actually true.
The reality of we SHOULD be expecting to be better, considering how much money is in the game and the premiership and our grass roots structures, we should be competing at a higher level. But that doesn't necessarily mean we actually all think we automatically beat everyone, especially with our squad this year. The likes of Belgium have done a fantastic job building to where they are now, that's what I personally expect England to at least aim for. As for Croatia, they've done fantastically well too, I don't think it's a bad thing if the whole of Croatia expected them to push on from there. It's not arrogant to want and expect progress.
On the one hand we are supposed to beat Croatia because they are much smaller than us, on the other we aren't supposed to have expectations to do that? It's like people just want to have a pop and don't even think for a second about what is actually true.
The reality of we SHOULD be expecting to be better, considering how much money is in the game and the premiership and our grass roots structures, we should be competing at a higher level. But that doesn't necessarily mean we actually all think we automatically beat everyone, especially with our squad this year. The likes of Belgium have done a fantastic job building to where they are now, that's what I personally expect England to at least aim for. As for Croatia, they've done fantastically well too, I don't think it's a bad thing if the whole of Croatia expected them to push on from there. It's not arrogant to want and expect progress.
I'd say the worldcup highlights two things:
1) England actually looked like a team, that was on the same page. They had an idea and were able to execute on it.
2) Individually this team is mediocre. Kane is the only top player. Non of the defenders is great. Walker is a terrible CB; Stones, Maguire, Trippier, Young and Rose are average. Non of the midfielders are great. Henderson is okay, while the rest is underwhelming. Sterling and maybe Alli are the only attacking players (excluding Kane), that are fairly talented. The rest is average.
Despite having a young squad, I don't see much room for individual improvement.
1) England actually looked like a team, that was on the same page. They had an idea and were able to execute on it.
2) Individually this team is mediocre. Kane is the only top player. Non of the defenders is great. Walker is a terrible CB; Stones, Maguire, Trippier, Young and Rose are average. Non of the midfielders are great. Henderson is okay, while the rest is underwhelming. Sterling and maybe Alli are the only attacking players (excluding Kane), that are fairly talented. The rest is average.
Despite having a young squad, I don't see much room for individual improvement.
Wilshere / Oxlade Chamberlain would've raised the technical level of the midfield a fair few levels. Hope both of them get their act together in time for the next Euros.
They need the generation of 97 and upfront to step up, particularly midfielders, even past midfielders were better than the current ones, still think they will improve for 2020.
Against popular opinion I don't think this system with 3 at the back is the best for them, not entirely convinced with Southgate, even if the standard of International Managers is way bellow than Club Football.
Against popular opinion I don't think this system with 3 at the back is the best for them, not entirely convinced with Southgate, even if the standard of International Managers is way bellow than Club Football.
The problem everyone had with most England fans is what the tweets says WAS true but after a few wins the same fans who made fun of their team with ''it's coming home'' actually believed it themselves. The bigging up of a shite team after a few wins and talking like England deserved to be among the best was baffling for us neutrals.
I wish we would get over that meme already its getting wayyy overplayedLooks like we finally are getting over the loss against France
