Yeah CM looks particularly poor. Bellingham aside, even his stalwarts who looked good at the Euros are either older or in worse form.Can anyone think of an era where England have had worse options at CM? (not attacking mid). Hard to stake a claim for anyone else except maybe JWP.
Maybe because he's not fit and has played about 30 mins so far this season.What madness is this? Why wouldn't you pick one of our best players from the Euros in a 26 man squad? Particularly in a position where the competition is so limited.
56minutes played all season. Same thing as with Hazard barely played 25 games in the last 3 seasons and gets picked. Purely based on ReputationWhat madness is this? Why wouldn't you pick one of our best players from the Euros in a 26 man squad? Particularly in a position where the competition is so limited.
I don't agree with it at all. As I said, in forward selection there is some talent but rest is just poor or average looking from international perspective.I... don't agree with this at all. I think it's one of the best squads in the tournament. I don't trust Southgate to maximise that talent but the front 6 is really as good as anyone's.
Don't agree at all, as I wrote to poster above. Central midfield is just poor and drop from Scholes-, Lampard-, Gerrard-level is just enormous. I would say that player like Nicky Butt or Gareth Barry would go into this lineup without any trouble. Playing week in and week out doesn't mean anything if you are not good enough. Rice and Bellingham are overated by miles when playing aganst quality players. Centerbacks are just slow with no pace at all. There will be 3 centerbacks in starting lineup and that is not because they are good. Fullbacks aren't good enough defenders looking internationally.Is it?! Of course, there are weaknesses but overall this has to be one of the stongest teams in the world on paper. Top striker and wingers, midfield full of players that play week-in-week-out at the top level, and a few marquee players in defence. Nothing really wrong with the team at all. The only downside is that they're all English
I wouldn't bank on it.still have a sneaky feeling we won’t even make it out of the group, which would at least end Southgate’s reign.
I’m confident he’d be dead in the water. Public support has already waned for him. The knives have been sharpened. He’s not coming home if we go out in the group stage.I wouldn't bank on it.
56minutes played all season. Same thing as with Hazard barely played 25 games in the last 3 seasons and gets picked. Purely based on Reputation
I just don't agree with this at all. It's international football in a tournament with effectively no warm up. More than ever, you need to pick players who understand your system and have proven that they can do well in that set-up. If Phillips isn't fit enough, he won't play, and I'd still be happy with taking that risk in a 26 man squad.Maybe because he's not fit and has played about 30 mins so far this season.
Would have been better off picking Milner.
He dropped Smalling when he was first choice at United, don't think he'd pick him if he played for Bournemouth or Everton. You may have a point on Tomori though. I'd pick him over Maguire and Coady. Abraham is one of a number of forwards who missed out so don't think it's to do with being in the PL or not, he's just similiar level. Overall sample size isn't really big enough to say if it's a factor, and if it is a factor how much so or how much its worth criticising, because there simply isn't enough English players playing abroad. Even with Tomori, there's also Guehi, Tarkowski, Burn, Mings etc in the PL not getting picked either. He picked Trippier, Bellingham, Sancho etc when playing abroad. In fact Sancho has fallen out of favour since moving to the PL, and Bellingham was called up when only 17 which showed a lot of faith from Southgate.Southgate has a real boner for anyone so long as they play in the PL. They don't even need to play well; just play in the PL. That's it.
The inclusion of Gallagher is atrocious. On current form and current reputation, if he played for Napoli or Valencia, he wouldn't get a look in, but because he's in the PL and at Chelsea, it happens. If Tomori or Smalling played for Bournemouth and Everton, it wouldn't even be a debate if they'd be included, but apparently playing for Serie A winners isn't sufficient enough. Granted Abraham hasn't been at the races so far this season, but where was his inclusion last season when he was red hot for Roma? Exactly. Southgate doesn't even try to hide it. He'll prioritise PL players in worse form than non-PL players in better form. Hell, it took fecking Bellingham playing out of his skin long enough at Dortmund to get Southgate to turn his head.
Absolute turnip.
name your 26Southgate has a real boner for anyone so long as they play in the PL. They don't even need to play well; just play in the PL. That's it.
The inclusion of Gallagher is atrocious. On current form and current reputation, if he played for Napoli or Valencia, he wouldn't get a look in, but because he's in the PL and at Chelsea, it happens. If Tomori or Smalling played for Bournemouth and Everton, it wouldn't even be a debate if they'd be included, but apparently playing for Serie A winners isn't sufficient enough. Granted Abraham hasn't been at the races so far this season, but where was his inclusion last season when he was red hot for Roma? Exactly. Southgate doesn't even try to hide it. He'll prioritise PL players in worse form than non-PL players in better form. Hell, it took fecking Bellingham playing out of his skin long enough at Dortmund to get Southgate to turn his head.
Absolute turnip.
They wouldn't cost £100m if they weren't English imo.A lot of talk here about how this is the worst CM ever.
While I agree you dont have strength in depth, Rice and Bellingham would both cost £100m each. Not many, if any other squads could say that.
I think the problem is the defence and you will play 3 at the back to try and compensate which will leave the midfield short.
Not sure he needed to take 8 forwards.
Those 2 players actually played for their clubs. Klose at 37/38 played 30 games for Lazio and had 8g/8a.I just don't agree with this at all. It's international football in a tournament with effectively no warm up. More than ever, you need to pick players who understand your system and have proven that they can do well in that set-up. If Phillips isn't fit enough, he won't play, and I'd still be happy with taking that risk in a 26 man squad.
It goes back to the Klose/ Podolski Germany teams. They fit perfectly in those roles, the manager trusted them, and so they kept getting selected even when not playing for their clubs. That seems smart to me.
Those players were fit and ready to play.I just don't agree with this at all. It's international football in a tournament with effectively no warm up. More than ever, you need to pick players who understand your system and have proven that they can do well in that set-up. If Phillips isn't fit enough, he won't play, and I'd still be happy with taking that risk in a 26 man squad.
It goes back to the Klose/ Podolski Germany teams. They fit perfectly in those roles, the manager trusted them, and so they kept getting selected even when not playing for their clubs. That seems smart to me.
Dan burn would have been the perfect option for left centre back in the usual back 3 southgate goes for, burn has played there for brightonBen White is in.
Smalling he obviously doesn't like, Tomori I think he's also just not convinced by for whatever reason (and hasn't had the push like Maddison has to pick him) and Dan Burn I don't ever really had a chance (and if he did it would be as LB).
Dier is terrible, even worse then Maguire for my money, but Southgate likes him.
Final last Euro??That's the problem with managers like Southgate, it's always "if he does this you'll have to do this".
But all the hypotheticals rarely if ever come to fruition.
Bellingham probably would still considering how good he has been at such a young age but definitely not riceThey wouldn't cost £100m if they weren't English imo.
Dan Burn has been incredible for 18 months at least. I can't believe he hasn't got a cap yet.Dan burn would have been the perfect option for left centre back in the usual back 3 southgate goes for, burn has played there for brighton
I just don't trust him toIf he doesnt play Bellingham who is one of the best midfielders in europe right now, then Southgate is even worse than I thought.
It was a pretty low bar.
Martinez is an equally shite manager to Southgate. I love Hazard but he may as well retire at this point.56minutes played all season. Same thing as with Hazard barely played 25 games in the last 3 seasons and gets picked. Purely based on Reputation
2 decent midfielders is not enough for a tournament. Philips is not only not international level but is unfit. Gallagher and Mount are not a CMs. We are so weak in this position it’s ridiculous.A lot of talk here about how this is the worst CM ever.
While I agree you dont have strength in depth, Rice and Bellingham would both cost £100m each. Not many, if any other squads could say that.
I think the problem is the defence and you will play 3 at the back to try and compensate which will leave the midfield short.
Not sure he needed to take 8 forwards.
England will not be playing Real Madrid or Man City. They’ll be playing another international side with glaring weaknesses.Martinez is an equally shite manager to Southgate. I love Hazard but he may as well retire at this point.
2 decent midfielders is not enough for a tournament. Philips is not only not international level but is unfit. Gallagher and Mount are not a CMs. We are so weak in this position it’s ridiculous.
Our CB’s are also complete dogshit. But I do not have much fault for Southgate, there really isn’t much choice.
In terms of Forwards, they name Maddison and Foden in there and they are 10’s not forwards. The wide players are truly some of the most inconsistent in the World. It’s hard to tell if he has made the right choice.
Again, are players are poor, the manager is poor. This team will be knocked out the moment it leaves the group.
Irrelevant - he has had about a total of 30 minutes of football this season. He wasn't even very good last season.What madness is this? Why wouldn't you pick one of our best players from the Euros in a 26 man squad? Particularly in a position where the competition is so limited.
Yeah he's never fancied Tomori at all,like you say it always looked likely he would go with his trusted lieutenants there. Feel for JWP who has missed out on last three tournaments and would have offered real set piece threat. Just remember how effective we were on those in last World Cup.He should 100% be in the team, especially over someone like Coady, but the starting CBs are like the few players who do really well under Southgate. Walker, Stones, and Maguire have all done pretty well at the WC and the Euros under him.
You get your pace from Saka in this. Foden has to take either Maddison or Rashford’s spot. Foden is one of the best creative forces in all of football right now.Pickford
White Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice
Saka Maddison Bellingham Rashford
Kane
Not what I said do try to keep upWhy does Southgate need an excuse to pick Wilson over Toney? Even without the betting story I don't think anyone would really care.
England's midfield has had very little creativity for years,probably have to go all the way back to golden generation with ScholesyEngland and US are in the same group.....and i think both managers made some really odd choices for their squads
England's midfield has zero creative players and how do you select Phillips who hasn't played in months until just yesterday or day before? Gallagher has been poor for Chelsea
CB pairing, much like the US, is going to be an area of honest weakness. Maguire isn't a regular at United and he shouldn't be in the squad for England based on merit. He and Stones together is going to be an issue.
How do you NOT select two left footed LB's? i mean that's a bit fuking mental if you ask me.
Ruled Toney out when didn't get on pitch in either of those two Nations League gamesGlad Maddison and Wilson are in but for others:
- Phillips has 3 sub appearance all season, JWP should be there instead.
- Gallagher has been more miss than hit this season but there is a struggle in that area.
- No Tomori who plays regularly in the UCL and has been great but we have Coady instead and Maguire has hardly played.
- Would have liked Toney but if England are only playing 1 striker its difficult to get everyone in.
Yeah really harsh to punish him for thatSo he's played poorly in 2 games. He's had a solid season and is better than Dier and Coady.
First of all, you get much more than just 'pace' from Saka, who funnily enough has created more than Foden this season, averaging 2 key passes per game to Foden's 1.4. He has also made 6 assists to Foden's 3. Maddison comes out on to in comparison to Foden who, according to you is ''one of the best creative forces in all of football right now''.You get your pace from Saka in this. Foden has to take either Maddison or Rashford’s spot. Foden is one of the best creative forces in all of football right now.
Because Phillips is essential to Southgates mind numbing approach to midfield so he brings him along despite only having one working shoulder.I think Chalobah should have been given a chance, to be honest.
Maguire shouldn't be in the team.
Phillips? How the hell is he in the squad. Literally getting in based on being at City and being one of Southgate's chums.