GlasgowCeltic
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- Jan 3, 2006
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He's trying to switch to a possession game from the counter and set piece model that was working. In doing so he's ignoring that the midfield options are crap
He sure has a lot of that. The way he goes hiding in games is quite magical.Watching that midfield tonight made my evaluation of Jesse Lingard go up a notch, the lack of finesse was staggering.
I wrote this just after the World Cup. England team is great and he's really holding them back. Quite astonishing that a very good England generation (and future) is in the hands of Gareth Southgate and Aidy Bothroyd. I'm Scottish so very happy to see Southgate continue but I'd be desperate to get rid if I was English. I don't think he has any place managing the talents that he is. First half against Spain was the best performance under him and even then the second half was a complete battering.It's quite interesting that the media have probably went a full 180 after this World Cup. In the past, Good England sides have played good football and lost to good sides (2002,04,06 etc). In my opinion, England were incredibly average this time. They created next to nothing in open play over the course of the World Cup and scored mainly from Set pieces. They played poor sides generally and struggled against the only good sides they faced. Southgate was awful last night and he is poor tactically. After 70 minutes, England were mentally shot and desperately needed some subs. A good manager would have taken off Alli for sure as he had lost his head. None of this will actually be mentioned because everyone is just hung up on the fact that England reached the Semis and nothing else.
I agree with everything. I'm surprised Grealish didn't get a call up this time. I got it before because he wasn't competing in the top flight, but he is now and is performing well.Midfield really needs to be regenerated otherwise it will be found out as usual v top teams in later stages.
Need to start giving Maddison some serious minutes (think he'll be a little ahead of Mount who found the step up tough tonight). Grealish needs to start getting called up. Also need Foden to go out on loan in January and get serious minutes. Of course England could just call him up anyway but he won't make serious impression on Euro 2020 just playing the odd league cup game.
At least then you have a few options who can pick up the ball in central midfield and create a chance, England still lack a tempo player from deep that pretty much any side that makes a major final has e.g. Modric, Xavi, Pirlo etc.
Also central defence options are pretty weak still, would be amazed if Michael Keane starts at euros, he's a bit like Jagielka, solid back up but you wouldn't want him playing 6-7 games in major tournament.
Stering and Kane will be in their prime in 2022, not in their 30s.I'm not british but I would implode this bland team and start a young creative team looking into 2022 just like Germany did.
Pope
TAA Lascelles Mings Tomori Someone
Foden Grealish Mount Sancho
Abraham
I agree, imagine if Klopp had this same team.100%. With the talent we've got, we're underperforming, feel like that nearly every time we play anyone half decent.
Was about to come into the thread to say exactly this! He's publicly came out and said that a problem was that some of the players who played aren't playing well for their clubs currently and that probably had an effect. Why did they play then!? Ffs.Southgate has done what nearly all recent England managers have done, he's got his favourites and picked them even if they were in terrible form. It's the usual trap.
I'm not british but I would implode this bland team and start a young creative team looking into 2022 just like Germany did.
Pope
TAA Lascelles Mings Tomori Someone
Foden Grealish Mount Sancho
Abraham
Grealish and Mount as a 2 man midfield. Foden on the right. Do you watch football?I'm not british but I would implode this bland team and start a young creative team looking into 2022 just like Germany did.
Pope
TAA Lascelles Mings Tomori Someone
Foden Grealish Mount Sancho
Abraham
Yeah I think this is true too, he's regressed tactically, isn't playing to our strengths and seems to have got caught up in the hype a bit, which is really disappointing.I thought Southgate was tactically pretty savvy at the World Cup. He took account of our midfielders being crap by just playing a reliable workhorse there (Henderson) and splitting the rest of the midfield’s duties between the defence and attack. He also seemed capable of giving the players instructions that they were able to understand and follow, so at least there was some cohesion to their play.
Now he seems to have abandoned all that, and returned to the fiction that our midfielders are good. The rest of the players know that they aren’t, hence the number of hopeful punts forward from the defence and keeper. Maybe he believes that if Klopp can do it with such a limited midfield, so can he.
The only positive is that last night’s debacle may have been noticed by Ed, and made it less likely that Southgate will be the one to follow Ole. Which I’m convinced is a real possibility, being the option that involves the least loss of face.Yeah I think this is true too, he's regressed tactically, isn't playing to our strengths and seems to have got caught up in the hype a bit, which is really disappointing.
I just hate the idea of us wasting such a talented crop of players on a manager who I don't truly believe will get the best out of them, or even select the right ones.
Pickford
Walker (TAA against teams that will sit back)
Maguire
Tomori/Gomez (whoever is more in form come May)
Chilwell
James (assuming he hits the ground running for Chelsea like the other boys have, which is very likely)
Madison
Mount
(Winks or Henderson in over one of JM/MM Vs elite oppo)
Sancho
Sterling
(With Hudson Odoi breathing down both necks)
Kane (would say with Tammy there to keep him on his toes but Southgate would pick Kane even with one leg removed)
Other squad players (not mentioned above): Heaton, Pope, Stones/Mings, AWB, Rice, Grealish/Ross, Rashford, Tammy.
Almost certainly won't get us to victory in Euro's but it would atleast get some good football and something to build on. There's literally no excuse for the likes of Keane and Rose being in the squad.
He's been excellent for Liverpool under Klopp.Henderson is stealing a living both for club and country. How can such a limited player get over 50 England caps and somehow trick Klopp into playing him is beyond me. And aldo he is kind of a wasted talent Barkley at least had an impact on the game since coming in with that through ball to Kane.
I didn't mean Tammy should outrightly replace him i meant if Kane has another complete shit show like he did in Euro 2016 then he should have some pressure for his place now a clinical finisher who (unlike Vardy) Southgate seems to somewhat like is right behind him. Back in that tournament he should have lost his place to Vardy and if nothing else Tammy's presence should atleast serve to motivate him against letting his standards drop that far again.Southgate picks Kane because Kane is still ten times the footballer Tammy is despite playing a different role/being in a struggling team this season.
Kane was by far the best player against the Czech’s, basically playing a deeper role that Tammy doesn’t have the ability to play in a million years. He’s earned his place in the squad but never to lead the line.
I didn't mean Tammy should outrightly replace him i meant if Kane has another complete shit show like he did in Euro 2016 then he should have some pressure for his place now a clinical finisher who (unlike Vardy) Southgate seems to somewhat like is right behind him. Back in that tournament he should have lost his place to Vardy and if nothing else Tammy's presence should atleast serve to motivate him against letting his standards drop that far again.
Based on the fact that Michael Keane started last night and Kane starting over Abraham, despite Abraham's great form, I fear you might be right.Southgate has done what nearly all recent England managers have done, he's got his favourites and picked them even if they were in terrible form. It's the usual trap.
Players like Henderson seem to be good enough to win the Champions League. You don't need super amazing central midfielders if you have the right surroundings and tactics. Hard working, disciplined central midfielders can do wonders if you have pacy, creative wingers and forwards.It is scary how bad England's midfield is. You're pretty much relying on Mount & Madison becoming amazing, the rest is proven average and won't get you far in the Euros.
At CB, on paper Gomez-Mcguire is probably the best bet. If he gets back to fitness and has 2 full season, i don't see why Rob Holding would not be given a chance. Arsenal bias aside i'm sure he will be part of the 23 squad that goes.
Henderson shares a midfield with Fabinho and Wijnaldum, both are top players.Players like Henderson seem to be good enough to win the Champions League. You don't need super amazing central midfielders if you have the right surroundings and tactics. Hard working, disciplined central midfielders can do wonders if you have pacy, creative wingers and forwards.
I didn't mean Tammy should outrightly replace him i meant if Kane has another complete shit show like he did in Euro 2016 then he should have some pressure for his place now a clinical finisher who (unlike Vardy) Southgate seems to somewhat like is right behind him. Back in that tournament he should have lost his place to Vardy and if nothing else Tammy's presence should atleast serve to motivate him against letting his standards drop that far again.
Didn't Vardy retire from the national team?Ah ok, in which case I agree. Similar issue with Spurs actually where we don’t have an alternative to Kane so too much is on his shoulders.
Vardy would be a fantastic (and very different) alternative, but he’s going to be very old by the Euro’s. I wouldn’t mind seeing Kane dropped in to a deeper role behind Tammy actually, because these days Kane doesn’t really lead the line like he used to.
Revisionist take. It is a widely held opinion that Liverpool's midfield offers energy and little else. I put Wijnaldum in team of the season once and got laughed out the roomHenderson shares a midfield with Fabinho and Wijnaldum, both are top players.
Sorry but who is asking for a more clogged and cynical form of football?I find it funny that people here think England need to play a more clogged and cynical form of football. Yeah, your attackers would thrive in such conditions.
He didDidn't Vardy retire from the national team?
Revisionist...Revisionist take. It is a widely held opinion that Liverpool's midfield offers energy and little else. I put Wijnaldum in team of the season once and got laughed out the room
He did, which is a shame.Didn't Vardy retire from the national team?
Absolutely. England looked much better at the World Cup with Henderson on his own in there.I find it funny that people here think England need to play a more clogged and cynical form of football. Yeah, your attackers would thrive in such conditions.
They're pretty much on a similar level and complete each other quite well.Henderson shares a midfield with Fabinho and Wijnaldum, both are top players.