This is Rahul's first proper series so I'm cutting him some slack here but Dhawan has been there for a long time and hasn't impressed in SENA Countries. Bloke loves a 75ball hundred against Sri Lankan spinners though.
English & Irish Cricket Summer 2018
- Thread starter ArmchairCritic
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I think KL Rahul is a classy batsman. A few minor tweaks and he could really take off.
I meant in the sense that even we got a draw against England with our shitty lineup.
both of our sides regularly extend the careers of average bowlers.That's fair, but tbh you can count on one hand the amount of openers that have actually impressed in England in terms of runs over the past 5 years. Dhawan's looked in decent enough order and from the three Indian openers we've seen he's the one that you'd have the most faith in to do well in Australia where it might be a bit easier.
Rahul is a flat track player right now. Averaging about 15 away.
Looks clueless against the new ball. When he gets runs, it's because he's anticipating an in swinger and they've bowled one.
Aesthetically good but he's been found out over the last couple tours. He seems naturally good at a few things and young, though, so I think he can go back and work on things if he has the commitment, which I think he would.
End of the road for Dhawan perhaps. He made an effort to knuckle down but doesn't have a B game to fall back on. Just felt like waiting for the inevitable every innings.
Bit of the same problem England have; I just don't think he looks a top order batsman. Not sure where you slot him in the team when Saha is fit though, but there's an argument for batting him at 6 and keeping at the minute. Pant doesn't look ready.
To be fair, it's been a minefield series for all batsmen. English batting has not been good despite being used to these conditions. The series has been a brilliant watch. High praise for Kohli who stood out as the only batsman to have conquered these conditions. A truly great player.
Cricket continues to be a tactically poor sport though, lots of focus on skill but far too much of playing your natural game rubbish with little planning. Teams have evolved with videos in terms of planning for skills of batsmen and bowlers but overall there is genuine lack of tactical input that you see in say football,NFL etc.
I mean start of day today England have had all night to plan for their remaining batting but Broad comes out and drives the first ball that is way outside off and then Curran decides to take a single on the first ball of the next over . India on the other hand decide that they will give singles on even the 5th ball to Curran. This is just a bizzare phase and finally it ends with Curran getting run out. Then India bat and all through the series they have tinkered with Keeper/Pandya and Ashwin's positions with no clear logical reasoning. Pant today came out with the plan to play his natural game,if the plan was for him to slog then why not send Ashwin above him to get a partnership with Rahane . At 8 down Shami decides to slog everything but at 9 down Ashwin is trying to farm strike, so why was Shami allowed to slog ? Batting with the tail does my head in every single game
I mean start of day today England have had all night to plan for their remaining batting but Broad comes out and drives the first ball that is way outside off and then Curran decides to take a single on the first ball of the next over . India on the other hand decide that they will give singles on even the 5th ball to Curran. This is just a bizzare phase and finally it ends with Curran getting run out. Then India bat and all through the series they have tinkered with Keeper/Pandya and Ashwin's positions with no clear logical reasoning. Pant today came out with the plan to play his natural game,if the plan was for him to slog then why not send Ashwin above him to get a partnership with Rahane . At 8 down Shami decides to slog everything but at 9 down Ashwin is trying to farm strike, so why was Shami allowed to slog ? Batting with the tail does my head in every single game
Good point. Hard to truly judge Rahul and Dhawan as conditions were extremely difficult and they did manage to put up two partnerships at Trent Bridge. Opening is by far the hardest job in test cricket, many have tried and failed and only the true greats managed to be consistent through time and variable conditions. In recent times only the likes Hayden, Langer, Sehwag, Trescothick, Smith and maybe a few others have been truly brilliant at opening. There have been others who have come and gone which highlights the difficulty of the job. You have Strauss, Cook, Gambhir, Vijay, Warner, Rogers, Jayasuria, and some others who have been good in patches but never reached the heights on the aforementioned. I'm actually struggling to name openers of a good standard. So many medioce players have been tried and tested only to fail.
Alastair Cook still averaged 45 before this test which is the benchmark for an incredible opener. I'm not having you lumping him in with Vijay.
I don't know, maybe he can have his own level in between, but he's been largely shit for almost 6 years now. Maybe, Vijay shouldn't be included in that group?
Rahul in 8 test matches in England,Saf and Aus averages 17. He has scored 273 runs in those 8 games out of which 110 came in one innings in his second test match . Whatever standards you use that is just not good enough
I think India are as good as touring side about right now, excellent pace attack and one of the all time great batsmen in Virat Kohli. The thing I find with the India batting lineup is once you're through the top 4 you feel as though the rest won't put up much of a fight. This is the 4th time India have found themselves chasing a score in the last 7 away tests. Historically anything over 200 is always hard to chase but out of 207, 286, 193 and 245 I'm certain India will feel that they could have won at least won one of those 4 chases.
India had a really good chance at winning the series here and the 3-1 scoreline belies the disarray the England team is in. There have been a lot of small details that have made a really big difference, in the end I think Sam Curran's existence and Bumrah not being able to play the first 2 tests have been the most critical.
I think India should put Shaw into open and drop Rahul to 6 with the gloves ahead of Pant for the Oval test. I also think perhaps they should have opted for an extra batsman ahead of Pandya from the first test and this is something they should consider for Australia. Drawing test matches is important to winning away tours.
India had a really good chance at winning the series here and the 3-1 scoreline belies the disarray the England team is in. There have been a lot of small details that have made a really big difference, in the end I think Sam Curran's existence and Bumrah not being able to play the first 2 tests have been the most critical.
I think India should put Shaw into open and drop Rahul to 6 with the gloves ahead of Pant for the Oval test. I also think perhaps they should have opted for an extra batsman ahead of Pandya from the first test and this is something they should consider for Australia. Drawing test matches is important to winning away tours.
He still averages more than Trescothick after 6 years of being shit, so he definitely belongs in the same list as Trescothick
.On the England side of things for the Oval I'd like to see Burns open, Vince/Hildreth/Clarke at 3, Woakes in for Rashid. Partly tempted to have Stokes @ 5 and Ali @ 6 and drop Bairstow for some of the shots he's played in the last 2 tests.
Burns
Cook
Vince/Hildreth/Clarke
Root
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Nice balance and mostly has people batting where the should bat in test cricket. Possibly too many guys that can bowl.
Oh and with respect to Ian Bell:
Burns
Cook
Vince/Hildreth/Clarke
Root
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Nice balance and mostly has people batting where the should bat in test cricket. Possibly too many guys that can bowl.
Oh and with respect to Ian Bell:
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Trescothick was something else, man. Cook has been a very solid opener, but Marcus had something else in his game that very few players have ever had.He still averages more than Trescothick after 6 years of being shit, so he definitely belongs in the same list as Trescothick
You'll find few England fans who would have Trescothick ahead of Cook as their opener in an all-time England XI.
I've been critical of Cook over the last few years but it's incredibly unfair to just call him solid and stick him in the same group as the likes of Vijay.
He looks finished now but he was an incredible opening batsman for a good few years. At his peak he was scoring a ridiculous amount of runs everywhere, including man of the series performances away in India and Australia resulting in England winning both.
He's an England great.
He looks finished now but he was an incredible opening batsman for a good few years. At his peak he was scoring a ridiculous amount of runs everywhere, including man of the series performances away in India and Australia resulting in England winning both.
He's an England great.
Cook being ridiculously dismissed aside I think you're underrating Vijay a bit. He has (or had) a better record in England than Sehwag.
The man opened during a much harder era, in terms of bowlers and pitches, and averages a touch under 44. Cook, on the other hand, averages under 45 playing through an era known for the flat wickets and lack of quality bowlers. Albeit, wickets haven't been so flat for a few years which, incidentally, has shown us the worst of him. Like I said, I probably shouldn't have included him in the same group as Vijay but I really wouldn't have him as a great - it looked that way a few years back but his career has been stale for far too long. Plus, Marcus was instrumental in England winning the Ashes in 2005 against an absolute force.
Lack of quality bowlers? Cook played against Warne, McGrath and Lee and got a 100 against them which is something Trescothick never did. Got a 100 vs Murali in Galle as well. He has absolutely monumental performances in test series wins away in India and Australia (which few batsmen in the history of the game can lay claim to). Trescothick has a crucial 100 in South Africa against Ntini and Pollock (and a young Dale Steyn) but Cook also has a 100 in South Africa vs Steyn, Ntini and Morkel.
Trescothick did play against Ambrose, Walsh, Wasim and Waqar but they were 37, 38, 35 and 32 respectively and all kind of retired a year or so after they played against him. I remember watching the series Trescothick made his debut in, Ambrose and Walsh were bloody accurate but slow as anything compared to their prime. I guess you could hold McGrath's age against Cook but England were getting whitewashed whereas the West Indies team Trescothick was playing against was busy getting rolled over by Craig White and Andy Caddick.
If you knock out Bangladesh and Zimbabwe tests, Trescothick's average drops to 41, Cook's stays at 44.7. I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Sehwag was ridiculous (in a bad way) in England, I like Vijay as a player and think he's a top opener who is going through a rough patch.
You make some fair arguments. I grew up watching a lot of English cricket where Trescothick was my favourite player and was some what of a revolutionary, especially in the shorter forms of the game. I've watched a lot of Cook, and at one point, he truly looked like a great in the making - I remember his debut in India, witnessed history in 2010 and almost cried in 2012. My issue with Cook is that he's fallen from grace so quickly - from a point where he looked on course to break every record in the game to the shadow of himself we've witnessed for quite a while. He hasn't been himself since 2012/13 and many of the years since have gone by with his average lingering in the mid 30s which, as I said, isn't that impressive given the lack of quality of the bowlers.
What do I mean by the lack of quality bowlers? This is what I mean:
Australia since McGrath and Warne retired have had Lee fill their boots and not a single great bowler since.
South Africa - they've had a few.
New Zealand - Boult recently but nothing in between.
India - Zaheer and that's pretty much it till the last 3 or 4 years.
Pakistan - no one of the level of Wasim etc. Albeit, you make a fair point in regards to their age.
Sri Lanka had Murali, both not a single good fast bowler since Vaas retired.
West Indies - no one.
I'll take the agree to disagree.
Just a note to say Mitchell Johnson arguably retired half the England team (and Ryan Harris was a mighty fine bowler in between knee injuries, in fact do Australia do bad fast bowlers?).
My bad, I completely forgot about him! He was terribly inconsistent, was Mitch - one day he could be the absolute best on the planet, the next, he could as easily be the worst. I think they've had bits and pieces - Harris, Starc, Siddle, Hazlewood, Pattinson, Cummins etc. No outstanding bowler though - Hazlewood might be, some time in the future.
Since the series is gone. Would like us to see debut Shaw, Vihari and Siraj in the next match. Also hope Jadeja can play.
Cook ia probably the best on that list imo
I dont know. I am due to see the 4th day, I'd rather we played a full strength team. Kumar, Jadeja and Shaw in for Rahul, Pandya and Ashwin/Shami.
The Indian in me says Sehwag. But bias aside, its either Smith or Hayden. Two phenomenal openers throughout their entire careers. If I had to choose one, its Hayden.
Smith is so underrated as a batsman. Everyone talks about his captaincy but he was an excellent opener too.
Prefer Smith over Hayden.
Hayden and Sehwag were both FTB I think. I'd take Cook and Smith over them both.
Yeah.
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Bring Mohd. Siraj in the team.
I think he's pretty much a cert for the WIndies series.
Do we ditch Ashwin for Kuldeep or will our batting get even worse? Surely Moeen Ali showed us how bad Ashwin was..
Hopefully England ring the changes at the top of the order
Burns
Gubbins
Vince
Root
Hildreth
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Curren
Broad
Anderson
Burns
Gubbins
Vince
Root
Hildreth
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Curren
Broad
Anderson
I'd say Jadeja is ahead of Kuldeep. Bhuvi should be back too. That'll help both departments.
ECB 'major announcement' scheduled for 12pm.
Cook, Bayliss or 100 (please, god, please be the hundred) related possibly.
Cook, Bayliss or 100 (please, god, please be the hundred) related possibly.
A quick comparison between the four:
A. Cook: 55 in UAE; 51 in India; 48 in Australia; 48 in Sri Lanka; 43 at home; 31 in South Africa; 27 in NZ.
M. Hayden: 104 in UAE; 57 at home; 51 in India; 40 in Sri Lanka; 34 in England; 34 in South Africa; 28 in NZ
V. Sehwag: 91 in Pakistan; 69 in Sri Lanka; 54 at home; 47 in Australia; 27 in England; 25 in South Africa; 20 in NZ
G. Smith: 70 in UAE; 67 in England; 57 in NZ; 44 in Sri Lanka; 41 at home; 39 in Australia; 35 in India
Smith had some excellent numbers in all conditions. Sehwag was immense in Asia and managed to dominate in a few tours of Australia too.
Cook and Hayden have some very decent all round numbers - my issue with the former is how quickly he declined. However, I take back not including him with these guys, initially.
I think it's Cook. He's retiring.