Why did Klopp join Liverpool? They’d gone thirty years without league success. He could have waited and just gone to somewhere like Bayern surely?
Erik ten Hag - Ajax Manager
- Thread starter Panther
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Not true. The story Spurs put out is that they didn't like the people ETH wanted to bring in, which could be true, but a possible explanation is them saving face after getting snubbed.
peps brother recently became his agent.
They're ambitious but not stupid or delusional I think. Until we fix our bloody issues at the top no wise and in demand manager would come imo. Signing Ralf is the first step in this direction but let's see what happen this summer first.
He wouldn't have gone to Bayern Munich for obvious reasons, being a Dortmund legend and all. As to why he chose Liverpool, I can't speculate about his motives.
You are asking the wrong question here. What you should be asking is why Klopp chose Liverpool, who hadn't won anything for decades, over us? The answer is as simple as it is complex. Because we are ran by bean counters. The club must be profitable first and marketable second. Competitive success doesn't fit anywhere. As long as the dividends are flowing, nothing else matters.
The same reason I believe Ten Hag will go elsewhere.
You think the opportunity to manage United is turned down by top managers all the time? Chelsea sack managers for giggles and still they have top managers lining up for them. Same with Madrid or any top club.
We are one of the few who generally give manager a lot more runway to have a dip and then correct that. That in itself is a massive incentive for any top manager to come in. This is before going into a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for most managers to manage a club of the stature of United.
Our fanbase is not overestimating the pull. You are massively undervaluing it if you think someone like ETH would turn down United if we came calling in the hope of getting to City, Juve, etc. somewhere down the line. Even if it comes to choosing between them and us, United pay top dollar and it is funny to assume that we are bottom of the list for top managers.
For some the top dollar is not that important but their career, their achievements, their ideas, their legacy etc. And it's not like those in demand managers could not get another top dollar elsewhere. We're not the only club who pay the top dollar.
But we're probably the only top club who prioritize financial and marketing success over football. There were reports on Conte asking us to not force him to use the marketable players if he signs for us for example.
Those in demand managers are often very confident of themselves so I don't think us giving more leeway to a dip of form matters much here. In fact if any manager actually want to sign for us because of that I'd say we should stay away from that one. Because they don't believe much even in themselves.
Truth is we're not patient as many here think. Klopp would be sacked in his first season for finishing 8th in the league and forcing our lazy primadonas to run their bollocks off. Or for dropping Ronaldo for his gegen pressing style. We just lack the football people at the top who, with enough of football knowledge, would be able to believe, help and support a project despite the bumping road.
Instead, we have people at the top who know feck all about football, regularly make the wrong decisions and stick their nose in where they should not. We have a huge and utterly knee jerk fanbase. The media and press love to feck us for clicks. It's definitely not a promising environment to work in, especially for a job as demanding and difficult as a manager.
If I'm Ten Hag honestly I'll choose City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Bayern, Real over us. Even if the pay would be less. My career and reputation is simply much more important than that.
fecking hell, some think we are fecking Derby County.
Not true. Did you see the video of Conte telling Levy who he wants to bring in as backroom staff? A manager can bring whoever he wants.
DADDY WANT WANT WANT
You must be really naive to think that ETH would be delusional joining Manutd. He manages Ajax in the Dutch league, the first question is is he even good enough for Manutd let alone are we good enough for him.
Seriously, some on here act as if he's won 3 CL in a row or something. He got them to a semi final once. He won the Dutch league, let me remind you De Boer won 3 of those back to back and couldn't manage Palace.
It's what a tier 1 outlet said about why Spurs didn't take ETH. Then again, like I said, it could be that ETH snubbed them and they just used that excuse to save face.
They're not winning trophies right now, so they're all shit/past it/overrated.Spot the impostor
Btw i'm amazed at united fans talking about rebuild. Club has won feck all in 8 seasons and counting, can count on the likes of Varane, Cristiano, Bruno, Sancho, and people want a fecking rebuild? Wow
Mental innit
You are incredibly ignorant or reductionist.
I mean he might be a really good manager but lets not act as if he is a Klopp or a Pep.
To suggest he would reject Manutd is pretty Ignorant, its a massive step up.
He has gone as far as he can with Ajax, every time he builds something special, it will be torn down within 12 months.. De Ligt, De Jond, Donny, Ziyech....
Imo it's rather a bit naive to assume Ten Hag would jump at our first call. Of course we, United fans would like to think so. I'm an United fan too but I'm a realist.
Hiring Ralf might be the first step in fixing our fundamental issues. But let's see what we do with Ralf in the summer first I think.
Managers go into jobs that are horribly difficult because they have big egos but also because they are getting paid crazy money to do it and these days the managerial merry go round is so fast that it doesn't even tarnish your reputation once you have one.
Mourinho is still getting top jobs and will get another one when hes left Roma.
Poch will get another top job after PSG
Conte will get another top job after Spurs
Clubs understand that its harder than ever to have a long term, successful manager in the day and age over overpaid and underworked footballers and if you manager to find one that sticks around for 5+ years at the sharp end of european football then you have a gem.
ETH doesn't seem like he is worried or in any rush to make the next step up but he clearly has everything to do it from a technical standpoint. The only thing the jury is really out on is his ability to manage egos. To babysit star players. Unfortunately that is probably one of the biggest jobs at the likes of United.
I don't think its as simple as some are suggesting for United to get ETH. At his current standing in the managerial world his next job could be vital in establishing his future worth as a top manager. United is easily one of the hardest jobs in management right now. No success to motivate players and a bunch of overpaid idiots who have too much power.
Mourinho is still getting top jobs and will get another one when hes left Roma.
Poch will get another top job after PSG
Conte will get another top job after Spurs
Clubs understand that its harder than ever to have a long term, successful manager in the day and age over overpaid and underworked footballers and if you manager to find one that sticks around for 5+ years at the sharp end of european football then you have a gem.
ETH doesn't seem like he is worried or in any rush to make the next step up but he clearly has everything to do it from a technical standpoint. The only thing the jury is really out on is his ability to manage egos. To babysit star players. Unfortunately that is probably one of the biggest jobs at the likes of United.
I don't think its as simple as some are suggesting for United to get ETH. At his current standing in the managerial world his next job could be vital in establishing his future worth as a top manager. United is easily one of the hardest jobs in management right now. No success to motivate players and a bunch of overpaid idiots who have too much power.
He can go there and be sacked after 3 losses, or he can prove what he really think he is and come to united and make history. His call.
He wont just come for money or our 'history'. I suspect the most in demand young managers will only come here if they see the board have stoped being stupid and trying to run a football club when they have no idea how to do it. The club is becomign a greaveyard for managers and people will be very, very careful about why they come. The cr*p about Conte being too hard for the players was more PR rubbish, its the board and Ed/ his mini me successor who didnt want a manager rocking the boat and upsetting the noodle deals.
So making Ralf DoF, putting in a clear football structure and make it clear that players are bought and sold for football reasons and not shirt sales/ social media or because Joel thinks a player is good. Unless this happens then we wont get him. Think about ho the idiot Ed f..ed up getting Klop to come here, by summarising all the club's history and what it means by comparing it to Disneyland. Think about that and then does anyone not understand why we are in this mess?
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I think Klopp and Pep are far more proven, and are rightly regarded as the two best managers.
But the only argument against Ten Hag is that he hasnt managed at that level over a whole season yet. What he has been performing with Ajax in Europe is reasonably on the level of what Klopp and Pep have been doing if you put the performances, achievements, budgets into consideration.
He could join United/City and compete with Pep/Klopp, that doesnt mean that he has become a better manager suddenly. That would mean he has been given the platform to showcase his qualities on a higher level.
Not saying he is as good as them two, mind. I'd be careful with that.
He could easily reject United as others have done before (Klopp/Pep) and a plethora of players. Some people do actually care about vision.
No actually he has another very good XI with lots of talent, and he can push to achieve the same as he did in 18/19. That is to win the double and reach at least the quarter final of the CL.
Name one football club give managers more freedom in operation than united? In fact I think, one of the problems we had in the past decade is give managers more power than what they should have. No manager (other than Sir Alex) deserves more control than what managers get at united. The club is not a graveyard of managers, these managers (except maybe DM) digged their own graves by making mistakes after mistakes after mistake with at the same time spending hundreds of millions. If ETH decides to come to united he will get financial support and time he will not get at any other club in the world.
They can’t see why a manager would want to join a club that pay big wages, can afford top players and have a massive fan base. When it’s all pretty obvious.
Right, and that 'freedom' has worked really well. Not sure your point is correct or you understand mine, Firstly, I think you find managers have had less freedom than you think, who is actually making the buying AND selling decisions. Its never really clear. Some players for example were clearly manager signings, but others its not clear at all. Mou had a melt down when the club refused to back him after the 2nd place. On sales, which is almost as important as buys, its a mess.
Secondly, top clubs are now machines that are run with clarity, look at Bayern or City. Its actually not that the manager gets to do what they want, which is part of Utd problem as we move from one style to next and have a bloaited, unbalanced squad (just like Everton). Its that the club builds the foundations for sucess and has clear structures and decision making in place. I think you will find thats what the likes of ten Hag are used to and would expect. I would go in and get both van der Sar and ten Hag, that would be a statement. But our board are too timid and inept to do that.
Yeah, so far from reality it's unreal.
If we want to challenge for the title in the next 5 years, he's a must get. Going for Poch or Rodgers (
) would send us further away from the title.We have a lot of self loathing fans who think we are a comedy club, and modern day burnley. Same people who would prob claim arsenal and spurs sitting in better nick than us and a manager would 100% pick them over us.
We literally only one of a few clubs who can still spend big like the Oil state sponsored clubs. On top of all the other big ticks with a club our size. Baffling a manager be thinking nah don't fancy them, I'll go to another club who spend buttons and not back me.
I understand where you are coming from and where are you going. My point is not that different from you. I think we need a structure rather than letting the managers have too much decision power in the club. We have to move on to modern football structure and build a club not dependant on one person (like sir Alex). I hope Arnold is different from Ed and we make progress in that regard.
AS ever, things are not quite as bleak as some say, but at the same time you seem a little rose tinted. Given our size, history and fan base, the club is a complete mess and is systematically underachieving. I dont think you can deny this? When did we last seriuously challenge for the league or indeed get to an FA YOuth CUp final. And our entire recruitment and squad managerment is a mess, deespite the PR cr*p about the overhaul under Ole, we see now the complete disaster for what it is. Again, I assume you cant disagree. So any manager incoming who is highly rated can also see all this mess. And will also see it seems nothing changes. A highly respected football structure man like Ralf being fobbed off with a consulting role and no freedom to overhaul a toxic and bloated squad. Great advert.
I dont think we are competing with Burnley for managers, at least not yet. But we are competing with the other top clubs in Europe, for whom we SHOULD be a strong choice for many. But as we descend into even more of a mess, manager will be put off. Woodward already put off Klopp, which in my view underscores what a great manager and leader Klopp is, at he immedialy saw Ed for the clown he is.
We are Manchester United arguably the biggest club on the planet. Of course he would jump at the chance to join like most players / managers do.
We signed Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho in one window for example. That’s pretty crazy for a club that hasn’t won many trophies of late. United is the special club with Real Madrid in world football.
If a manager wins a champions league with us just imagine that on their resume for example? Would be next level and they know this.
They have the war chest to potentially make it happen. We are in the top 5 clubs spending wise each season so they can do a lot in our club compared to everyone else bar a few sugar daddy teams.
They also get paid more than almost anywhere straight out the gate. They get a dream job essentially in their chosen profession.
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Sorry mate, very naive in the extreme. Did Pep or Klopp jump at the chance to come? Liteally no other team was chasing Moyes, LVG or Ole when we signed them, not one. And Mou was already clearly on his spiral into self-destruction but even then Woodward was too dumb to see that. And we only sign many of these players as we play such stupid, stupid wages, then wonder why we cant sell them.
Rodgers is now 100% out of the race.If we want to challenge for the title in the next 5 years, he's a must get. Going for Poch or Rodgers (
I hope not. I want to him to be in there just to rile up some hyper enthusiastic fans, only to eventually lose out at the end.
5 goals conceded in 20 matches is pretty fecking mad.
Thought it would be interesting to compare to other leagues — fewest goals conceded in a season, from what I could find on google:
PL: 15 goals conceded (Chelsea - 38 games)
Bundesliga: 17 goals conceded (Bayern - 34 games)
La Liga: 18 goals conceded - (Atletico/Deportivo - 38 games)
Ligue 1: 19 goals conceded (PSG - 38 games)
Serie A: N/A - Couldn't find anything, but I imagine one of Milan/Inter/Juve ended on mid-to-high 10's one season
Quality of the league is obviously a lot lower, but they're on course for something impressive if they keep this up.
Thought it would be interesting to compare to other leagues — fewest goals conceded in a season, from what I could find on google:
PL: 15 goals conceded (Chelsea - 38 games)
Bundesliga: 17 goals conceded (Bayern - 34 games)
La Liga: 18 goals conceded - (Atletico/Deportivo - 38 games)
Ligue 1: 19 goals conceded (PSG - 38 games)
Serie A: N/A - Couldn't find anything, but I imagine one of Milan/Inter/Juve ended on mid-to-high 10's one season
Quality of the league is obviously a lot lower, but they're on course for something impressive if they keep this up.
Quality of the league doesn't really matter. The difference in quality between City(first) and Burnley(last) is about the same as between Ajax and PEC Zwolle(Also first and last).
Does anyone other than a child actually believe that hyperbole? Its a very myopic viewpoint. We are no more special than Bayern is to germany, or juventus is to italy or boca/river are to argentina. The biggest club in europe is currently Real Madrid (get the best players 85% of the time and most CL wins) with a chance of change that over the next few decades, PSG, Newcastle and City could close that gap with their bottomless funds and armys of lawyers to get around ffp etc.
Klopp didn't want to Join Manutd = they are rubbish, they are not attractive
Also, can you please show me when we were ever interested in Pep or linked to him, or to that matter that he rejected us?
Actually, Spurs were very close to signing LVG as their manager.
Mourinho was clear was he ? only 2 seasons before that he won the PL?
My favourite posters on here are the ones who constantly shit on the club and its pulling power despite being proven wrong every summer. You get to spend fecking fortunes, you get given time, you have a squad full of attacking talent, you have arguably the biggest fanbase on the planet and you have the project and ego trip of restoring a fallen giant. It’s a fecking dream job for fecks sake.
The idea we cant attract a ten hag is ludicrous
Everything is in place for ten Hag to succeed at United, as far as structure goes imo. We have strong structural support for the next man in, and unless the board undermine the recruitment department by giving control to the Manager, like we saw with Solskjaer, who was allowed his own personal scout, Simon Wells. Then your recruitment won't be as thorough, because you then have two factions within the club working to recruit players with the bigger faction (club's recruitment department) being undermined by the Manager and his own trusted scout. You give control to the bigger faction who have vast resources at their disposal to help you (head coach) recruit players for a shared goal, towards a particular footballing blueprint.
And as far as Klopp is concerned, it was said by a Liverpool board member at the time they appointed him via the Liverpool press, that Klopp joined Liverpool due to the work that was being done behind the scenes by their recruitment department, headed by Michael Edwards, which really impressed Klopp. And that was at a time when Edwards, had become a laughing stock among Liverpool fans and was even ridiculed by some journos after the sacking of Brendan Rodgers. But subsequently we've learned that Rodgers was allowed to undermine the club's recruitment team and had his own personal scouts, which was allowed by FSG. So Klopp joined Liverpool and understood he had to rely on Edwards and his team to recruit players for his high tempo, fast transition play-style with heavy emphasis on quick incisive vertical passes through the lines. Klopp didn't want to manage the recruitment and was happy in his role as the head coach, which allowed the much maligned Liverpool recruitment department headed by Michael Edwards to succeed and today be regarded as among the very best with UCL and League success.
Two of the key figures in City and Liverpool's success were Michael Edwards and Brian Marwood. And both would've be described on here as inexperienced.
And as far as Klopp is concerned, it was said by a Liverpool board member at the time they appointed him via the Liverpool press, that Klopp joined Liverpool due to the work that was being done behind the scenes by their recruitment department, headed by Michael Edwards, which really impressed Klopp. And that was at a time when Edwards, had become a laughing stock among Liverpool fans and was even ridiculed by some journos after the sacking of Brendan Rodgers. But subsequently we've learned that Rodgers was allowed to undermine the club's recruitment team and had his own personal scouts, which was allowed by FSG. So Klopp joined Liverpool and understood he had to rely on Edwards and his team to recruit players for his high tempo, fast transition play-style with heavy emphasis on quick incisive vertical passes through the lines. Klopp didn't want to manage the recruitment and was happy in his role as the head coach, which allowed the much maligned Liverpool recruitment department headed by Michael Edwards to succeed and today be regarded as among the very best with UCL and League success.
Two of the key figures in City and Liverpool's success were Michael Edwards and Brian Marwood. And both would've be described on here as inexperienced.
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The biggest stadium, history, its actually a very good job.
If a manager like Ten Hag is as good as people say he is, he would be looking at the team, the players United have, the budget per summer, the youth and would probably think, yeah I think I could win them the title and I will become a legend.
People don't realise but this job has alot of things that other jobs don't. Even Klopp at Liverpool, does not get the same budget.
Chelsea, managers dont get time.
We literally give managers time, more time than we should at times to get it right.