They'll call Dave's bluff, he'll get a few minor window-dressing concessions - they know he thinks leaving would be a disaster.
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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would not the best option for Greece and the EU be to 'forgive' the debt or just have a pay as you can clause?
It seems that the EU is bending over backwards to keep Greece in, as the UK which is one of the biggest contributors, and also as the UK economy is relatively performing well it means the UK will pay more, I expect that there is a deal to be done with the EU.
The perception of the EU as a brusssels gravy train, and the straining UK public services will be massive negatives to overcome. The other side of the argument I think will focus strongly on fears on the economy, and people's jobs, although nobody really has much of an idea of how much impact it will have, the UK's domination of the Financial Services sector in Europe is not built on EU membership, but for sure it would have an impact even if it was only in the short term.
I think this could be a possibility... But Germany would want to link it to economic reforms... Which in themselves seem unpopular in Greece.
I do believe Greece are briefing about possible missing the next imf payment which could trigger the grexit... It is likely that before Cameron can reshape the UK's relationship with Europe that Europe it's self may be reshaped by either solving or failing to solve the grexit possibility
You'd really need the IMF and World Bank to do the same though. Not sure how much appetite there'll be for it the previous 'haircut'.
the key would be not bring in the cancer of the debt that cannot be reasonably repaid, but to put in place controls and measures that would prevent any repeats.
France and Germany behind plans for 'common EU corporation tax'
Not only a boost for those who wish to retain British sovereignty, but an example of the contrasting direction in which rival nations wish to take the EU. Pro0ponetns of Brussels will seek to restrict the debate to immigration and paint Eurosceptics in a xenophobic or ignorant light; such arrogance shall their undoing.
Not only a boost for those who wish to retain British sovereignty, but an example of the contrasting direction in which rival nations wish to take the EU. Pro0ponetns of Brussels will seek to restrict the debate to immigration and paint Eurosceptics in a xenophobic or ignorant light; such arrogance shall their undoing.
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I have no problem with a common coporation tax. Tax competition is the stupidest idea of all time, promotes nothing more that a race too the bottom
Agree.
Plus, if you're in favour of combating tax heavens, which is a major economic problem, the sovereignty argument doesn't make any sense, because it will only affect those who are below the minimum tax rate.
They will have to cave in, knowing that brexit would be disastrous for the union both financially and politically. They wont take even the slightest chance on that happening. Cameron will likely drive a hard bargain.
Unless you were ever likely to vote in favour of leaving the EU, i very much doubt that you fall into the target audience here. 'Ever closer union' is the name of the game here, all those participating in the referendum must come to realise what the eventual consequences of inaction will be.
If Cameron is to drive a hard bargain he first needs to make the right demands; benefit tourism (but a Daily Mail headline grabber) is afforded greater promience than Justice or Foreign Affairs, it hardly fills one with great confidence.
I think it would be a hard bargain regardless. eu needs Britain more than Britain neets the eu (atleast over the next 5-10 years).
I agree though that the priorities of the eurosceptics in this country are mostly wrong. Forigen and Economic affairs should be at the forefront rather than petty things like benefits which do not count for that much.
The only areas Cameron will push are worker and consumer rights
I'm not scared of more power going to Europe, I've got no power in this nation, we are ruled by a bunch of posh boys, whatever flavour of Government we have. They are the ones scared, because they will loose control of their fiefdom
Having a common corporation tax makes sense in a single market. Besides, the UK is hardly the main target of such convergence (hello Ireland, Cyprus...).
So you'd choose a shot to the head instead of getting mugged. Good for you.
I am not myself intolerant of people based upon their background, wannabe despots in Brussels whose policies are driven by the Franco-Germans however...
If a country wishes to remain a free and independent state, its level of taxation can hardly be a decision for Brussels or Berlin.
Were it to be explained to the population that our tax policy would soon be an item for Eurocrats or the whim of Germany, this referendum needn't even require a campaign.
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Were it explained that continuing access to the free market means largely abiding by EU rules, then there wouldn't be much of a campaign either.
There is a whole world out there to trade with, and indeed the influence of non-European import/export is only increasing; there is not however a like desire to govern these shores.
If the UK must form political alliances, better that they be on our terms and with those of a mindset we can live with.
There is a whole world but it seems perverse to not continue to take advantage of the huge market on our doorstep. And who are those of a like mindset? I doubt the Indians or the Chinese would be more accommodating.
Have you ever heard any Eurosceptic suggest that we shouldn't engage with the trading market right on our doorstep? Selling the country down the river in exchange for a few Euros is where the trouble begins.
A No Vote from the UK isn't an expression of isolationism, simply that its treaty commitments must reflect those of a state determined to maintain its independence. Whilst tThe future currents of the Eurozone bloc (dominant within the EU) are not heading in a direction consistent with such a stance, there would nevertheless remain many important issues upon which broad continental cooperation is desirable.
You say that other countries would not be more accommodating, yet who among them would seek to have primacy over our laws to a comparable degree?
In these precarious times, to what extent can Britain trust Europe to have its back or share in foreign policy? If such doubts exist, how can binding and ever closer union be seen as anything other than counter-intuitive.
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Whats your thinking on the EU court back track Nick
Europe allready mandates that VAT can be no lower that 15% (once an item reaches that point, so zero rated items and lower rate items are fine for the moment). This would be nothing more than an extension of that priciple to another tax
Whilst there have been rulings which i have disagreed with, and i can well understand why people would wish for an independent UK Bill of Rights, i am cautious about how best to remedy the situation. In recent times we have seen policies o0f censorship either introduced or at the very least attempted, yet some of those responsible for such would now seek to define our freedoms? *uneasy* There is no great rush at any rate; moreover, i wonder at the inconsistency of those ministers who advanced the cause of the flawed European Arrest Warrant.
I can't believe that anyone can think it would be anything other than a disaster for the UK. The Empire is long gone people. Let it go. Leaving the EU would be te beginning of the descent to banana republic status.
This is a reasonable summary although I think the knock on effects haven't been addressed http://www.theguardian.com/politics...en-if-uk-leaves-eu-ten-ways-life-could-change
This is a reasonable summary although I think the knock on effects haven't been addressed http://www.theguardian.com/politics...en-if-uk-leaves-eu-ten-ways-life-could-change
indeed Wibs...amazing people still living in the past...
Agreed @Wibble - can't believe that article opens with not having fast-tracking lines on European travel though. That's one of the smallest concerns possible.
The blue on blue fighting starts to take shape
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33038201
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33038201
I don't think any of the points made in that article would come into effect if we left. It is the kind of wishy washy nonsense which gets spouted all the time.I don't see Norway struggling with any of these issues.
What we know for certain is the UK would save 8 billion in payments into the EU.
The UK would have its own agriculture farming and fishing policy.Rather than a common EU policies which cost UK consumers hundreds of pounds per year and blocks trade with other countries in order to subsidise French and German farmers.
We would be able to move quickly to introduce policies for ourselves rather than trying to persuade 27 other countries to all agree.
The EU is a failing trade/currency block pushing for political union as a price for membership.
At the moment I would vote to leave in the referendum. I am not sure about it though. If the best argument for staying in is that some how all our beaches are going to become dirty when we leave then I assume there are no good arguments because that is some truly pathetic shit right there.
Although I dont think a brexit will happen but this article is a lot of non-sense. When guardian starts caring for people with a second home on the continent you have to know they are out of logic.
It's an odd one as I think Camron could just about get away with not having referendum(Past over some line about getting more from Europe).But if the UK was to reach the stage of having a referendum then I think the answer would be to leave(It also mean another Scottish independence vote as the Scot's clearly want to stay in Europe.). My reasoning for why I think it would be a vote to leave.
This past election showed a couple of things
.Millions of people(I think it was around 3 million) are happy to vote for a openly xenophobic party who's whole foundations are based around leaving Europe.
.People actually believe what's written in newspapers(Some people actually thought Nicola Sturgeon was going to run the country if Labour had won)And you can just image the one sided arguments coming from both sides in this. Although the leaving side will have a bigger and louder voice.
.The little 'Englander'/English Nationalism feeling is clearly very strong at the moment. And there really isn't anything like as a bunch of white people in their 50's wishing for the 'Good old days' to help you win a vote.
.This one is pretty much the first point but it surprised me just how much pull the blame all immigrations vote has.
So yeah can see this been a giant cluster feck if it goes a head.
This past election showed a couple of things
.Millions of people(I think it was around 3 million) are happy to vote for a openly xenophobic party who's whole foundations are based around leaving Europe.
.People actually believe what's written in newspapers(Some people actually thought Nicola Sturgeon was going to run the country if Labour had won)And you can just image the one sided arguments coming from both sides in this. Although the leaving side will have a bigger and louder voice.
.The little 'Englander'/English Nationalism feeling is clearly very strong at the moment. And there really isn't anything like as a bunch of white people in their 50's wishing for the 'Good old days' to help you win a vote.
.This one is pretty much the first point but it surprised me just how much pull the blame all immigrations vote has.
So yeah can see this been a giant cluster feck if it goes a head.
Doesn't Norway have massive oil reserves which helps a lot. Also Norway's population is around 5 million(London alone has 8 million)so comparing the two countries doesn't really work. Although not saying this is a argument for staying in the EU, just that using Norway in any comparison to the UK has always seemed a bit odd.
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It is the view of a very balanced and reasonable academic not a Guardian opinion piece. IMO the consequences will be far far worse.
If you want to be part of the club you can't only pay for the bits that benefit you. Leave and it would be a financial disaster for the UK in the medium/long term. Norway isn't the UK but their oil, like the UK's, will run out pretty damn soon. The little Englander mentality of this is utterly stupid.
And I wouldn't let want a Tory in charge of the environment. Europeans are far more sensible with such issues.
It is trying to be reasonable. Too reasonable. Leaving the EU would be an economic disaster for the UK. The other things are an inconvenience.
My point is that being outside the EU doesn't mean any of the things the article says will happen, will in reality happen. Norway is not in the EU. Do people from Norway struggle to travel in Europe, are their beaches dirtier because they are not in the EU? Are their fishing and agriculture industries devastated?
My only real concern with leaving is the possible reduction in inward investment.
The EU isn't working very well at the moment and the cost benefit of the UK staying in versus leaving isn't clear cut. If you can't deal with that argument and I struggle with it if I am honest. Then do me favour and stop trying to pretend that everyone who disagrees with you is some sort of xenophobe or is wanting the British Empire back.
Last point, are you as concerned about the UK as a whole voting to stay in the EU while England votes to leave as you seem to be about the vote going the other way?
I do wish people would stop using the expression 'brexit'. God, it's ugly.
The point is we might not want to be part of the club any more because its a bit of a shit club and not worth the price of membership.
Thinking that we might be better off outside of the EU doesn't make you a little Englander. Blanket claims about economic costs of leaving leave me cold because when you unpick them they are so much hot air. It also ducks the issue that there are real perils to staying in the EU given the direction it is being driven.
I'm sure though that if everyone just insults us some more for daring to think about leaving that is going to be very persuasive.Or possibly they can invent some more nonsense about our cocks dropping off when we leave, that should scare us into staying in and would have about as much basis in fact.
Not more stupid than the idea.
But that is utter nonsense. The economic benefits are huge. You just want to leave because foreigners come and claim the dole or something (despite that being bullshit). It is a brainless Little Englander attitude that defies reason. How else could you explain UKIP getting vote 1?
It sounds like music to me. Might as well work on a couple of chants around it and pass it on to any ukippers I find.
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