Evan Ferguson - Top Irish Prospect

[croadyman]

Was referring to young talents. Should have added Garnacho.

I do think there’s a strong chance MG returns though.

Yeah I still think it could happen as well

 

[cyberman]

Do any generational (or could be World class) talent ever stay at lower and lesser clubs to develop? I keep seeing this being pushed forward without any real examples as to if it works out or not

 

[thegregster]

People talking about casually chucking £60M towards a player who's scored four league goals in his career.

Sure he's looked really good so far, but he's only played a handful of games. History is littered with players who looked good for a short while.

We have so many glaring issues in the squad, and if reports are to be believed, not a whole lot of money to spend. So spending 60 million quid on an 18 year old with four league goals to his name would not be a sensible thing to do.

Real are starting to do it a lot. Buying young kids for big money instead of buying established players for 120m+ down the road.

We tried to get Bellingham when he was on the market 40m. Now if we want him its 120m.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not really obvious no.

United were quite chaotic at the time. Dortmund are renowned for developing young players and are the second best team in Germany with a rich pedigree. They are also playing in the highest European level.

Are we really saying Dortmund and Brighton are on equal footing?

I think you could definitely argue that Brighton are becoming the Dortmund of the Premier League. An eye for the best young talents and consistently playing modern, attacking football. All that’s missing is CL football. Which is, admittedly, harder in the PL. Because there are so many more big/wealthy clubs.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Do any generational (or could be World class) talent ever stay at lower and lesser clubs to develop? I keep seeing this being pushed forward without any real examples as to if it works out or not

Bellingham and Haaland could have both moved to bigger clubs at the age Ferguson is now and they’re doing ok. I’m sure there are many more examples.

 

[TheReligion]

I think you could definitely argue that Brighton are becoming the Dortmund of the Premier League. An eye for the best young talents and consistently playing modern, attacking football. All that’s missing is CL football. Which is, admittedly, harder in the PL. Because there are so many more big/wealthy clubs.

I mean really? Dortmund are European Cup winners and have multiple league titles and trophies. As I say the second biggest side in Germany and one of the big names in the world.

Brighton are missing quite a bit more than you suggest by way of comparison.

 

[Cassidy]

Should a club with our ambitions take that gamble? We are chasing trophies on various fronts, hopefully the title eventually and I’m not sure someone so unproven is worth the astronomical fee Brighton will want.

Unless you think this is someone who is destined to be one of the greats? And hence the could be may be part doesn’t apply to him?

Our club always found success in going after young talented players. Rooney is an example.

Anyway though I wouldn’t sign him alone for crazy money. Im of the opinion the club needs to sign 2 number 9s this summer and I would love us to sign him (IF it was feasible) I doubt it would be though

I very much doubt he takes 4 years to develop though was the main point.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I mean really? Dortmund are European Cup winners and have multiple league titles and trophies. As I say the second biggest side in Germany and one of the big names in the world.

Brighton are missing quite a bit more than you suggest by way of comparison.

Players don't really care about history tbf, Dortmund are one of the big names right now because of Klopp's period. Prior to that, they were going nowhere. If Brighton can replace Spurs, who are on equal footing, and consistently get into the CL, I don't see why not.

 

[cyberman]

Bellingham and Haaland could have both moved to bigger clubs at the age Ferguson is now and they’re doing ok. I’m sure there are many more examples.

But both moved when around 18 didn’t they? Dortmund aren’t exactly a small club, flipping talented young players is just how they operate but they are a huge club.
If a big club went out of their way and said we are making a commitment to turning Ferguson into a world star and not have him make appearances from the bench or be loaned out then I can’t see why he wouldn’t move or how it would hinder his development.

 

[pascell]

It's looking possible.

Forget him then, shouldn't go near him until he reaches Darius Vassell/Kanu level.

 

[Marwood]

I think you could definitely argue that Brighton are becoming the Dortmund of the Premier League. An eye for the best young talents and consistently playing modern, attacking football. All that’s missing is CL football. Which is, admittedly, harder in the PL. Because there are so many more big/wealthy clubs.

Do you think Bellingham and Haaland would have gone to Dortmund if they weren't regularly in the Champs League?

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

All this talk of what's best for him.

Ronaldo and Rooney didn't hesitate at his age. They took the big move. You have to go for it in life sometimes.

Equally as a club we have to as well. You can't keep waiting for a centre forward to be a dead cert. It's too late by then. Those days are over.

That's fine if you are spending 30/40mn but if you are spending 80mn on a gamble when the dead certs will cost 100/120mn then its just foolish. Ronaldo and particularly Rooney were two of the greatest teenage footballers of all time so not really fair to compare him to them. He's a great talent but not in their league at this age.

Not that PL clubs rely less and less on player sales to balance their books as tv rights deals are so astronomical, even mid-table PL clubs have no incentive to sell their players for even close to their 'real' value if they don't want to. Once a player like Ferguson has broken out, it's almost too late to sign them for any kind of sane figure. In a way, we're better off looking at similar talents in South America, Asia or Africa as that is the only place there is still value.

 

[Marwood]

Players don't really care about history tbf, Dortmund are one of the big names right now because of Klopp's period. Prior to that, they were going nowhere. If Brighton can replace Spurs, who are on equal footing, and consistently get into the CL, I don't see why not.

Dortmund are challenging for the title this season aren't they? Consistently in the Champs League. This is before we talk about wages, stadium, attendances.

This comparison to Brighton is very spurious.

I'd still like to know who all these young talents are that Brighton have developed.

They've been good in the transfer market but that's a different thing.

 

[Marwood]

That's fine if you are spending 30/40mn but if you are spending 80mn on a gamble when the dead certs will cost 100/120mn then its just foolish. Ronaldo and particularly Rooney were two of the greatest teenage footballers of all time so not really fair to compare him to them. He's a great talent but not in their league at this age.

Not that PL clubs rely less and less on player sales to balance their books as tv rights deals are so astronomical, even mid-table PL clubs have no incentive to sell their players for even close to their 'real' value if they don't want to. Once a player like Ferguson has broken out, it's almost too late to sign them for any kind of sane figure. In a way, we're better off looking at similar talents in South America, Asia or Africa as that is the only place there is still value.

That's how it is though now.

Osimhen cost Napoli about £70 million didn't he and hadn't done a right lot at that point. He's only just scored over 20 goals for the first time and now costs £100 - £120 million. This is in Italy so even for £120 million you're not getting a guarantee of anything.

Agree it's nuts what you have to pay now but it's how it is. IF you think the players talent warrants it of course.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Yep. I would encourage him to be the best and take the opportunity. You never know it may not come around again.

yeah there is that line of thought.

He could be the best thing since Wayne Rooney or then next Welbeck.

Player and potential suitors have a big call to make this summer

 

[McGrathsipan]

If we did that with Rooney we would have signed him and he would have went elsewhere.

We can't risk losing a player who could be our main striker for the next decade

I am trying to consider this from Fergusons point of view also- as fans we want to have the best players , but what about Ferguson? Is it the right thing for him?
I would love to see him signed but the player will have to make a very important decision

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Bagged himself 8 goals in 17 this season, which is one goal better than Francis Jeffers did from that many appearances in his breakthrough season.

He's had 4 goals and two assists in exactly 6 premier league 90 minute equivalents. 6 goal contributions in six high level games is good for an eighteen year old any way you look at it.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Who was Rooney playing against?

Was United not the perfect environment to develop for Rooney and Ronaldo?

Which youth players have Brighton developed by the way? Should be lots to mention if they're so good at it.

Brighton have been in the Premiership for a hot minute- it's a bit unfair to be expecting them to have developed their own versions of Best or Rashford at this point!

My point was simply that Everton and Sporting were definitely not a better environment to develop in for Rooney and Ronnie than Brighton are now. See previous quote below:

Their underage coaching is clearly excellent but the league is suboptimal for a prodigy to round out his skillset. Player development is not an exact science but if you had to pick the perfect environment for a young attacker to flourish in it would be:
1. A good progressive team that plays attractive football
2. Good attack minded coaches/manager
3. A club that gives regular first team game time
4. Competing in a strong league

Brighton ticks all the boxes right now. Everton only ticked box 3 and 4 for Rooney at 18. I really can't pretend to know much about Sporting circa 2003, but I do know that they did not offer number 4. Ronaldo and Rooney moved to a club that provided all 4 of the above. Brighton are guaranteeing number 3 a lot more than we are.

 

[The Boy]

Are we really saying Dortmund and Brighton are on equal footing?

They could be next season, if we make the top 4!

 

[The Boy]

Do any generational (or could be World class) talent ever stay at lower and lesser clubs to develop? I keep seeing this being pushed forward without any real examples as to if it works out or not

Haaland didn't go to City until he was 21, De Bruyne went to Chelsea when he was 21 and didn't make it then went to City aged 24. Benzema went to Madrid at 22.

Ferguson is only 18.

 

[Abraxas]

Isn't the comparison with Dortmund more from the perspective of buying these seemingly very undervalued players, improving them even further (or at least giving them a platform to shine where people are actually liable to notice) and then selling them on? That's what they've done numerous times now.

This is a slightly different situation as they're now tasked with developing a young player of their own, but it's probably not that difficult for them because excellent management is converging with an excellent support structure, and we see this in the football and the results. So what more could a young player need to excel? All he needs is gametime, nothing else is missing from the opportunity Ferguson has. Which is why I think he would really benefit from another year or so there. But money and opportunities talk in football.

 

[TheReligion]

They could be next season, if we make the top 4!

And win a European Cup and several league titles…

 

[The Boy]

I'd still like to know who all these young talents are that Brighton have developed.

Our model is to buy young/cheao and develop them for the premier league, players like Bissouma (22 when signed), Mac Allister (20), Caicedo (19), Ferguson (17), Enciso (18) Sanchez (15) are all examples of this.

This is all recent as our current set up is not too old, but none of these players were well known when they were signed and all developed at the club. Sanchez is one of the earliest successful examples when we bought him from Levante aged 15.

 

[Offside]

“Sign him and Kane” would genuinely cost quarter of a billion.

 

[The Boy]

And win a European Cup and several league titles…

I think our team would give Dortmund a good run for their money and do pretty well in the Bundesliga. The premiership is a much tougher league, if we were in france we'd qualify every year!

 

[The Boy]

Isn't the comparison with Dortmund more from the perspective of buying these seemingly very undervalued players, improving them even further (or at least giving them a platform to shine where people are actually liable to notice) and then selling them on? That's what they've done numerous times now.

That's exactly what it is.

 

[TheReligion]

I think our team would give Dortmund a good run for their money and do pretty well in the Bundesliga. The premiership is a much tougher league, if we were in france we'd qualify every year!

I think we are blurring the lines here between you being a good team (you are) and being on an equal footing and pedigree to Dortmund (I don’t think you are yet)

 

[zaafi]

And win a European Cup and several league titles…

Dortmund's path to Europe is much easier than Brighton's. The overall level in Bundesliga is pretty low.

 

[cyberman]

Haaland didn't go to City until he was 21, De Bruyne went to Chelsea when he was 21 and didn't make it then went to City aged 24. Benzema went to Madrid at 22.

Ferguson is only 18.

But Haaland moved to Dortmund at 18 odd. In fact he nearly moved to United but we didn’t understand time difference.
KDB wasn’t a boy wonder and wasn’t Benzema 21? Even then he wasn’t a boy wonder and as soon as he did step up he moved right away

 

[Abraxas]

I think our team would give Dortmund a good run for their money and do pretty well in the Bundesliga. The premiership is a much tougher league, if we were in france we'd qualify every year!

I wouldn't say "every year" or that you'd be performing close to Dortmund with regularity either. I'm not sure you have been good for long enough to be making that kind of call. You're good at this moment and I'm sure Brighton fans are getting giddy about that, and why not... but stuff changes. You could be lower end of the table in a few years time if your manager gets poached, you sell a few players, and/or maybe you lose a few key adminstrative staff that are making very good decisions at the moment. Or simply a few decisions don't work out. That's how football is for most clubs, unless they're pumping in insane money to maintain some kind of baseline of performance, and even that is no guarantee as clubs like ourselves and Everton (and more recently Chelsea) would know, you can still fall below expectations.

 

[gajender]

But Haaland moved to Dortmund at 18 odd. In fact he nearly moved to United but we didn’t understand time difference.
KDB wasn’t a boy wonder and wasn’t Benzema 21? Even then he wasn’t a boy wonder and as soon as he did step up he moved right away

That never happened what are you talking about .

 

[Kinsella]

Class goal. He’s racking up quite the array of different finishes.

I forgot to mention that at the time - it’s an important point and shows that we’re talking about a real talent here with great potential. It’s also why, together with the fact that he’s now leading the line at 18 for a PL club (that’s playing good football and competing for European places) that’s it hard to know how much he’d go for.

It’s such a small sample size to go on, but this short video has all the relevant goals/contributions so far I think, bar the goal he scored last night -

 

[Remember the geese]

I'd be happy if he was the only striker we purchased in the summer.

 

[DOTA]

He's had 4 goals and two assists in exactly 6 premier league 90 minute equivalents. 6 goal contributions in six high level games is good for an eighteen year old any way you look at it.

It seems Jeffers played the equivalent of a bit less than 11 games and got six goals and five assists, so if Ferguson keeps going like he is he could get similar.

 

[Marwood]

Brighton have been in the Premiership for a hot minute- it's a bit unfair to be expecting them to have developed their own versions of Best or Rashford at this point!

My point was simply that Everton and Sporting were definitely not a better environment to develop in for Rooney and Ronnie than Brighton are now. See previous quote below:

It doesn't have to be players of that level but until they do start producing good numbers of their own I think its a bit too much to say they're the masters of youth development.

Your 4 point description of what is tales to develop a player. Which bit are United missing?

Our model is to buy young/cheao and develop them for the premier league, players like Bissouma (22 when signed), Mac Allister (20), Caicedo (19), Ferguson (17), Enciso (18) Sanchez (15) are all examples of this.

This is all recent as our current set up is not too old, but none of these players were well known when they were signed and all developed at the club. Sanchez is one of the earliest successful examples when we bought him from Levante aged 15.

Groß, Mitoma, Estupinan, Webster all about 25 when signed. Veltman and Steele about 28.

That's six of your latest starting XI signed when 25 or over.

On the bench is Welbeck signed at 29 and Undav signed at 25.

Now there's nothing wrong with that. In fact its great because they're mixed in with some younger players.

But there's this idea that Brighton are the new Busy Babes or something and that above lineup of players doesn't tally up with that.

I'm far from an expert on Brighton but to my knowledge its Solly March and Dunk so far that's come through your own coaching/development and become a Premier League player?I suppose you can add Ferguson if he becomes one as well. I've probably missed one or two.

Meanwhile United are consistently churning out players from the youth teams who consistently go on to have very good careers at a high level.

 

[UTAretro]

Getting back to Ferguson, I thought he had a good game last night. The finish was a moment of real quality. Ran hard as required by De Zerbi’s methods and kept the Bournemouth defenders physically occupied. Some nice hold up and lay offs as he dropped deeper, acting as a target man pivot almost.

A lot of people are suggesting a buy-and-loan-back deal, but I’m not sure this would be feasible. Brighton don’t want to sell any of their key/star players unless the fee is astronomical and some fans of other clubs unfortunately still don’t understand that. The fee would be enormous, and the very idea that Manchester United would spend £75m+ on a striker, only to loan him to a league rival, is preposterous.

This thinking may work with a £5m prospect from a lower league or abroad, but not with such a high value property. If any club came in for Ferguson in the summer and paid a fee Bloom couldn’t say no to, I can absolutely guarantee he’ll be in the matchday squad.

 

[Marwood]

Getting back to Ferguson, I thought he had a good game last night. The finish was a moment of real quality. Ran hard as required by De Zerbi’s methods and kept the Bournemouth defenders physically occupied. Some nice hold up and lay offs as he dropped deeper, acting as a target man pivot almost.

A lot of people are suggesting a buy-and-loan-back deal, but I’m not sure this would be feasible. Brighton don’t want to sell any of their key/star players unless the fee is astronomical and some fans of other clubs unfortunately still don’t understand that. The fee would be enormous, and the very idea that Manchester United would spend £75m+ on a striker, only to loan him to a league rival, is preposterous.

This thinking may work with a £5m prospect from a lower league or abroad, but not with such a high value property. If any club came in for Ferguson in the summer and paid a fee Bloom couldn’t say no to, I can absolutely guarantee he’ll be in the matchday squad.

Yeah I don’t know where people are coming from with that.

 

[lex talionis]

If Qatar buys us we will go for Osimhen, 120-150m. Ineos = Kane/ferguson

We're all just guessing, but that's a pretty good shout, mate.

 

[USREDEVIL]

I like his name so that's a plus.

 

[Baxquux]

It seems Jeffers played the equivalent of a bit less than 11 games and got six goals and five assists, so if Ferguson keeps going like he is he could get similar.

Guess the Jeffers example is another cautionary story in light of the calls for 75m bids (and Brighton supports arguing there's no risk except to BHA in allowing a purchase at that price). Jeffers seemed pretty injury-prone though and, notwithstanding the initial assist record, less of an all-round forward compared to Ferguson.

Not sure if it was the injuries or moving to Arsenal and complacency/break in focus matched with injury-fueled lack of game time, that saw him spiral, but everything seemed to desert him quite quickly, even the finishing. Someone like Fowler had injuries majorly affect his sharpness by the time he reached Man City, which seemed to affect his finishing significantly, but even that wasn't anything like the drop-off Jeffers had from what I vaguely remember - this was after he was tipped as a generational talent, a better pure striker potentially than Lineker etc.