Everything we feared about Jose Mourinho could be coming to fruition.

[Oooh_aaah_cantona]

That is downright wrong. PSG and City are unprecedented state clubs. Minimal/no academy or local production to speak of, unlike United. No global brand-building from the bottom up (City still can't fill their stadium) and don't even get me started on ethics. Look to the owners of the respective clubs, documented human rights abuses etc... and then compare Manchester United ethics with the ethics of those FFP dodging oil clubs. Not comparable.

Yes, my point is that they are not all of these things now. But they are building them. For example, Man City is building a better academy than us. No doubt if they continue playing like this, and we play like what we do, they will fill their stadiums eventually. We aren’t exactly playing youth too.

FPP is just a monopolistic arrangement to prevent newcomers. Dodging FPP is no less ethical than the people who came up with it in the first place.

 

[prtk0811]

FPP is just a monopolistic arrangement to prevent newcomers.

FFP's main aim was different. State Owned clubs with political power Just found a way around given set of rules to pursue their agenda.

 

[zing]

There were multiple clubs which went through successful periods, but Manchester United's coincided with the advent of TV rights and globalization of football. That is why United were able to build such a massive brand.

For United fans to pretend that only United did it the right way is downright disingenuous. You were in the right place at the right time. Sugar daddy money is the new globalization and City/Chelsea are the new Manchester United in terms of growth.

An argument that a club like Chelsea does not have the illustrious history of one like United is VERY valid and I am fully behind that all day; that the spending power of Chelsea/City will not match the history of clubs of the likes of United/Liverpool any time in the near future.

 

[Siorac]

There's plenty of silliness on both sides of this debate. People who completely ignore that José doesn't go ultra safe against most opponents (quite the contrary) - and people who refuse to acknowledge that he's a famous bus parker for a reason, pretending he's no different from other big managers in that regard.

Being pragmatic when the occasion calls for it isn't a defining trait of any manager because practically all of them share it to some extent.

Parking the bus routinely against difficult opposition, to the point where it becomes a default strategy, is a defining trait - and not something most big managers share.

Yes, pretty much this. The reason that Mourinho is renowned for his cautiousness is not some sort of gigantic media conspiracy or anti-Portuguese bitterness.

He's well capable of playing good football: after all, his Real Madrid side holds the goal record in La Liga, as it has been said plenty of times, and I still remember Chelsea 4-2 Barcelona in 2005 as possibly the greatest game of football not involving United I have ever seen. But that does not mean his reputation is unjustified.

 

[Exhale Beats]

This is very true and just highlights what a stupid risk it was to completely throw away going for a top four finish so early on. He too ka gamble and got away with it for me, which only partially redeems him because it was an unnecessary gamble, based mainly on him needing to justify his own whinging about our fixture schedule.

That aside though, every stat you can look at shows a very significant improvement since Jose has taken charge. The performances are better, the team looks stronger on paper, and for all the bickering about being too negative/defensive, we're a LOT better to watch now than at any point under LVG. So even that is a step in the right direction.

We knew what Mourinho was about before he was here. The bizarre thing for me is that when we didn't go for him after Fergie retired, there was uproar on here. Every mistake or poor result was judged on the basis of "if we had Mourinho that wouldn't have happened"...now we have him and he's doing exactly what you would expect Mourinho to do, suddenly people have an agenda against that too. To the point they will blind themselves from the obvious improvements.

I'm not a massive Mourinho fan but the team now is stronger in most ways than it was when he took over. Last seaosn was a big improvement on the season before and so far this season is an improvement on last. There's just no getting away from that.

In Van Gaal first season, at the start of the season and around February/March we played some of the best football we had seen in 3/4 years (Dominating against City/Spurs/Liverpool in the March period) and others we're even saying it on the forum. But the media/fans complained about us being too offensive in the early part of the season, instead of being patient and letting Van Gaal find a balance with tactics because we where scoring/creating lots of goals but conceding quite a few as well.

And in the first half of his second season, we where top of the league at oneach stage and we became a side that became good at controlling he game with a high line and dominating with possession but the problem is he players struggled to make the right decisions in the final third. For example against city at home in Lvg's second season, we stopped city from creating much at all and we did that by pressing with a high line and controlling possesion but the problem again was that when pushing forward was that we had bad decision making when trying to break down teams.

 

[Epicurean]

Or, you know, both? And Spurs are plenty good enough to cause above average teams problems.

Or both indeed. The only solace I find in Spurs doing well is seeing all the former Ajax players they have do well.

 

[Erentz]

There were multiple clubs which went through successful periods, but Manchester United's coincided with the advent of TV rights and globalization of football. That is why United were able to build such a massive brand.

For United fans to pretend that only United did it the right way is downright disingenuous. You were in the right place at the right time.

It wasn't United's first successful period, we were already the biggest club in Britain thanks to our earlier success, all of which was achieved by Matt Busby without financial doping.

Also, every club in the premier league was in the "right place, at the right time" when TV rights, and globalization of football kicked off. What propelled United to greater success than any of the other clubs was both the aura that already existed due to our history, which provided the perfect platform to sell ourselves all over the world, and having a manager in Alex Ferguson who was committed to playing the youthful, attacking football that made United the world famous club it already was, it was something he did so well that through most of the 90s our transfer outlays were quite low compared to our rivals.

 

[Escobar]

I say it again, offensively, Jose is a poor coach

 

[Bojan11]

I say it again, offensively, Jose is a poor coach

No

Offensively we are a poor team.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I say it again, offensively, Jose is a poor coach

Can't agree with this. At Chelsea his front three of Duff, Drogba and Robben were unbelievable. Again at Chelsea with Hazard, Costa and Willian was also dangerous.

I don't think we have the right players up front, especially at RW. Micky is a very hot and cold player as well. But then it's up to Jose to purchase the right players.

 

[Foxbatt]

It wasn't United's first successful period, we were already the biggest club in Britain thanks to our earlier success, all of which was achieved by Matt Busby without financial doping.

Also, every club in the premier league was in the "right place, at the right time" when TV rights, and globalization of football kicked off. What propelled United to greater success than any of the other clubs was both the aura that already existed due to our history, which provided the perfect platform to sell ourselves all over the world, and having a manager in Alex Ferguson who was committed to playing the youthful, attacking football that made United the world famous club it already was, it was something he did so well that through most of the 90s our transfer outlays were quite low compared to our rivals.

Spot on. When United was in the second division we were regularly pulling in over 40,000 at all of our home games at OT. In fact United had the record number of attendees even beating the first division teams when we were in the second. So it is not entirely down to being at the right place at the right time due to TV money and SAF.

 

[SteveJ]

Our players enabled Sky to sell Premier League football as something exciting, glamorous, youthful and bold. The brilliance of Cantona, Giggs and company sold Sky Sports' product for it.

 

[GrandJury]

I say it again, offensively, Jose is a poor coach

His Real Madrid and Chelsea teams holding the goal scoring records proves that’s stupid.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Yes, my point is that they are not all of these things now. But they are building them. For example, Man City is building a better academy than us. No doubt if they continue playing like this, and we play like what we do, they will fill their stadiums eventually. We aren’t exactly playing youth too.

FPP is just a monopolistic arrangement to prevent newcomers. Dodging FPP is no less ethical than the people who came up with it in the first place.

You're wrong about FFP and you're wrong about the academy. Just because they have more modern facilities and spunk money doesn't mean they have a better academy. Look at the academy output in the league. United's academy graduates get more minutes than any other in the league.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Our players enabled Sky to sell Premier League football as something exciting, glamorous, youthful and bold. The brilliance of Cantona, Giggs and company sold Sky Sports' product for it.

Is that why it’s so expensive? No more Cantona’s for Xmas

 

[Fridge chutney]

For example, Man City is building a better academy than us. No doubt if they continue playing like this, and we play like what we do, they will fill their stadiums eventually.

Are you a City wum? Serious question. You imply that our fans will jump ship to City, and that sums up your mentality frankly. It's not like City Oil FC are a new phenomenon. They have won 2 leagues and spunked billions since 2008. If they don't fill their stadium now, when can we expect them to? I've been hearing this since 2008.

 

[Escobar]

His Real Madrid and Chelsea teams holding the goal scoring records proves that’s stupid.

And when was that?

 

[Escobar]

No

Offensively we are a poor team.

And that‘s up to whom?

 

[Escobar]

Can't agree with this. At Chelsea his front three of Duff, Drogba and Robben were unbelievable. Again at Chelsea with Hazard, Costa and Willian was also dangerous.

I don't think we have the right players up front, especially at RW. Micky is a very hot and cold player as well. But then it's up to Jose to purchase the right players.

But then why are we so one dimensional going forward? We have no clear game plan or create proper chances for Lukaku on a regular basis

 

[GrandJury]

And when was that?

In his career as manager which isn’t made invalid by it not being yesterday just so you can ignore it for your point.

 

[GrandJury]

No

Offensively we are a poor team.

10 games 23 goals. Averaging 2.3 goals per game.

You’re wrong.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Spot on. When United was in the second division we were regularly pulling in over 40,000 at all of our home games at OT. In fact United had the record number of attendees even beating the first division teams when we were in the second. So it is not entirely down to being at the right place at the right time due to TV money and SAF.

Yip, few thousand more than LFC (think best in Div.1?), regularly over 50,000 and got 60,000 once.

Anyone who thinks United "went big" when SKY came in doesn't know our history. We've had periods of no success but we've been big for ages.... SKY was the cherry on top that meant we gained a lot of foreign fans but so did most clubs.

 

[SwansonsTache]

10 games 23 goals. Averaging 2.3 goals per game.

You’re wrong.

A lot of those goals have come in the last 10-15 minutes on the counter against tired teams who has committed to attack.

We are not a great cohesive attacking unit, claiming otherwise is just red tinted specs at it's finest.

 

[Josep Dowling]

But then why are we so one dimensional going forward? We have no clear game plan or create proper chances for Lukaku on a regular basis

I agree with you, we are very poor going forward against the better teams. Tactically we are too negative. The wide players are expected to drop so much that when we push forward there is no support for Lukaku.

At the same time our wingers just aren’t good enough. We have no natural right winger. On the left we have two young players who’s natural position is a striker. Then whoever plays at LB doesn’t ever provide the overlap. Rashford is often left on his own to chase ball. It’s a bit of a mess.

The only way to resolve this is to buy the right players. I can’t believe Jose didn’t go an buy a LB and a RW in the summer.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

And when was that?

2010 Chelski, 2012 Real.

 

[GrandJury]

A lot of those goals have come in the last 10-15 minutes on the counter against tired teams who has committed to attack.

We are not a great cohesive attacking unit, claiming otherwise is just red tinted specs at it's finest.

So what? That doesn’t make the goals mean less.

No, you’re saying that even though we are scoring a lot of goals our attack is poor which is a complete contradiction.

 

[SwansonsTache]

So what? That doesn’t make the goals mean less.

No, you’re saying that even though we are scoring a lot of goals our attack is poor which is a complete contradiction.

If you actually watch the entire 90 minutes of our games then you'll quickly see that we've not clicked in attack. Even in those very kind fixtures at the beginning of the season we didn't have commanding attacking performances.

Compare it to City, Spurs and even Liverpool at times and you can see that our attack isn't firing on all cylinders.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I agree with you, we are very poor going forward against the better teams. Tactically we are too negative. The wide players are expected to drop so much that when we push forward there is no support for Lukaku.

At the same time our wingers just aren’t good enough. We have no natural right winger. On the left we have two young players who’s natural position is a striker. Then whoever plays at LB doesn’t ever provide the overlap. Rashford is often left on his own to chase ball. It’s a bit of a mess.

The only way to resolve this is to buy the right players. I can’t believe Jose didn’t go an buy a LB and a RW in the summer.

This is just so wrong. We are pragmatic against the better teams because when you go all out attack against teams like Spurs and City, they hammer you as Liverpool discovered.

When we are playing one of the lesser teams at home, we go all out attack, because the chances of them hurting us are lower. Away from home and against the better teams, we are pragmatic.

It is much better to win ten games 1-0 than win one game 10-0.

 

[Hugh Jass]

No

Offensively we are a poor team.

I would not say we are poor. We are functional. Jose's whole philosophy is keep the defense (and by defense I mean all 11 players) airtight and then win 1-0 or 2-0. It is called pragmatism and it has worked all of Jose's career.

Jose after winning the Europa even said it, there are many poets in football who try to play good attacking football, but who don't win anything. He was having a dig at Klopp and Poch.

 

[Josep Dowling]

This is just so wrong. We are pragmatic against the better teams because when you go all out attack against teams like Spurs and City, they hammer you as Liverpool discovered.

When we are playing one of the lesser teams at home, we go all out attack, because the chances of them hurting us are lower. Away from home and against the better teams, we are pragmatic.

It is much better to win ten games 1-0 than win one game 10-0.

Today for much of the game in defence we simply cleared our lines with a hoofed clearance on the hope Lukaku could hold the ball up or Rashford could out sprint Spur’s backline. It was crap.

Same against Liverpool. Difference is we were away in that so I accept being a bit more negative but not to the point where you have one shot on target, even more so when your main striker cost close to £100m.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Today for much of the game in defence we simply cleared our lines with a hoofed clearance on the hope Lukaku could hold the ball up or Rashford could out sprint Spur’s backline. It was crap.

Same against Liverpool. Difference is we were away in that so I accept being a bit more negative but not to the point where you have one shot on target, even more so when your main striker cost close to £100m.

Look what happened against Huddersfield. We were playing it around the back and Mata mis-controlled a pass and they scored.

 

[Jeffthered]

This is just so wrong. We are pragmatic against the better teams because when you go all out attack against teams like Spurs and City, they hammer you as Liverpool discovered.

When we are playing one of the lesser teams at home, we go all out attack, because the chances of them hurting us are lower. Away from home and against the better teams, we are pragmatic.

It is much better to win ten games 1-0 than win one game 10-0.

These teams aren't the fabulous Barca, Bayern or Real teams of recent years. The issue for me watching United at the moment, is that we seem to change our whole approach to playing against other decent teams. You can set up with a view not to lose, and still attack very well, and very effectively. I have yet to see that against the better teams, or in the high-profile games (Benfica, Liverpool, today....). Our attacking play has been quite dreadful. Thing is, I fear this is how it is going to be, UNLESS... we buy big again (and we will have to offload, because that wage bill must be ridiculous).

Miss Ibrha's quality and leadership.

 

[el3mel]

These teams aren't the fabulous Barca, Bayern or Real teams of recent years. The issue for me watching United at the moment, is that we seem to change our whole approach to playing against other decent teams. You can set up with a view not to lose, and still attack very well, and very effectively. I have yet to see that against the better teams, or in the high-profile games (Benfica, Liverpool, today....). Our attacking play has been quite dreadful. Thing is, I fear this is how it is going to be, UNLESS... we buy big again (and we will have to offload, because that wage bill must be ridiculous).

Miss Ibrha's quality and leadership.

And we did that today.

Big games in England are played on single details and yes we have to change our approach to contain teams and hit at their weaknesses.

 

[Sultan]

The thread title should actually be

Everything opposition fans feared about Jose Mourinho could be coming to fruition.

 

[#07]

The thread title should actually be

Everything opposition fans feared about Jose Mourinho could be coming to fruition.

This.

We have gone from anyone being able to turn up at Old Trafford and win for the first time in decades, to nobody being able to come to Old Trafford and win for over a year.

The criticism and hate comes from people who wanted us to keep being cak post-Fergie.

Today Pochettino came to United, started with no striker, made hardly any chances worthy of the name, yet its Jose who's supposedly the enemy of football..?

 

[Oooh_aaah_cantona]

You're wrong about FFP and you're wrong about the academy. Just because they have more modern facilities and spunk money doesn't mean they have a better academy. Look at the academy output in the league. United's academy graduates get more minutes than any other in the league.

Sorry I don’t think you really understand FPP.

 

[Oooh_aaah_cantona]

Are you a City wum? Serious question. You imply that our fans will jump ship to City, and that sums up your mentality frankly. It's not like City Oil FC are a new phenomenon. They have won 2 leagues and spunked billions since 2008. If they don't fill their stadium now, when can we expect them to? I've been hearing this since 2008.

I don’t think existing fans will jump. But new kids growing up may decide to support Man City. It takes a generation to build or lose a brand. If you don’t understand all these things, it’s pointless to accuse others of being a WUM.

 

[Jeffthered]

And we did that today.

Big games in England are played on single details and yes we have to change our approach to contain teams and hit at their weaknesses.

Hit their weaknesses? Spurs were not fantastic today, and we won by a v v poor bit of defending, from a goal-kick. If that is hit a team at their weakness, then I truly hope we approach other games with more imagination.

Man City visited Chelsea recently and battered them, comprehensively. Totally outplayed them. That wasn't won on single details, City just played a terrific, all-round game. I want to see us do that against better teams, because at some point we will need to.

 

[donkeyfish]

2010 Chelski, 2012 Real.

Didn't he win the CL with Inter in 2010? That's an impressive combo

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Is it just me or anyone else getting a bit peeved off with this City this /City that narrative? Maybe I am a bit jealous but feck em ,, why can't we just enjoy what we are doing at the moment compared to last 4 years of turd? We all knew what we were getting when we signed Mourinho. Rant over.