F1 2024 Season

[pauldyson1uk]

The leaking of the messages, has to make his job untenable, he will lose all respect.
The woman in the messages, is just as much a victim.
He cant keep his job, Sexual Harassment in the work place is a huge no no, this reflects badly on RB as a team and the parent company and they wont like it.
In any other work place, he would already be suspended pending another investigation.

 

[Rado_N]

From the messages it's more because he started asking her to do things like book separate hotels for each of them, and delete her whatsapp chat logs, and that lack of trust was the catalyst for it.

Eh? You miss the ones where he’s asking her to send him pics while she’s in bed, offering to video chat whilst he’s in the shower, telling her how good she looks in leggings and wanking in the toilet?

 

[hobbers]

Eh? You miss the ones where he’s asking her to send him pics while she’s in bed, offering to video chat whilst he’s in the shower, telling her how good she looks in leggings and wanking in the toilet?

No but from the context it's clear they've at the very least had phone sex, probably more given the context of other messages, and she's sent him pictures. They're just not included for obvious reasons.

 

[Rado_N]

No but from the context it's clear they've at the very least had phone sex, probably more given the context of other messages, and she's sent him pictures. They're just not included for obvious reasons.

And that makes it OK?

 

[hobbers]

And that makes it OK?

Makes what ok?

 

[Rado_N]

Makes what ok?

His sexual harassment.

 

[hobbers]

His sexual harassment.

Probably sketchy enough to lose his position now. Just the humiliation factor alone should see him resign in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Balljy]

Probably sketchy enough to lose his position now. Just the humiliation factor alone should see him resign in the next couple of weeks.

Yeah, he's done. She's quite obviously trying to turn him away in the messages, and even if something did happen it's a sackable offence in his position.

 

[United Hobbit]

To me those messages are cheating (and who knows if anything happened in RL)

I think at times, she's being a bit flirty back, but you can tell she's not comfortable with sending him (aka her boss) any pictures, let alone the scantily clad ones he's clearly pressing for. It's probably a tricky line for her to tread, as he's her boss so she can't exactly tell him where to go

If these are seen by enough people I think RB will go down the reputational risk route - probably be announced as a 'mutual agreement'. They aren't just an F1 team, there's multiple operations which they may fear could be affected

Wonder what RB's other female employees will think if they see this. Now I'm thinking I don't see that they have many in the garage on race weekend? Usually when they pan to the garage, there's a decent number of female employees

The fact he's telling her he may get to "Q3" which clearly means nothing about cars, is fecking grim

 

[Shane88]

The totally not interested way she said "You finished yourself off." and his reply.

The cringe!

And the blurry pic of his little red willy. What

 

[hobbers]

And the blurry pic of his little red willy. What

That was a finger

 

[Redplane]

I think all this stuff is a bit overblown. So far it sounds more stupid than anything. If she or him had some financial gain or losses from it or other professional negative or positive consequences on a personal level it's much more damning. Similarly if they can establish it was a direct abuse of authority, especially if she was a direct report. If none of those things apply I don't disagree it doesn't show well for him as an individual, but I can also see why it would fail the further action test.

Especially in that industry and/or at those levels there will be a lot more skeletons in the closets than this. The volume of employees in large organizations with significant files of concerning behavior is far more significant than many of you who haven't had that pleasure of exposure may think. Especially an organization the size of Red Bull has attorneys and HR people walking around on a daily basis whose almost sole job is to surpress things like this. Doesn't mean the person committing things is any better, but it does show many things are measured with different cups.

Bigger issue at hand at this point seems to be how long the distraction will last for RB and if it's willing to cope and ensure it or whether the distraction becomes too much. Whoever is leaking this probably knows that too- that the damage of the distraction is possibly worse than the act that preceded it.

 

[SilentWitness]

I think all this stuff is a bit overblown. So far it sounds more stupid than anything. If she or him had some financial gain or losses from it or other professional negative or positive consequences on a personal level it's much more damning. Similarly if they can establish it was a direct abuse of authority, especially if she was a direct report. If none of those things apply I don't disagree it doesn't show well for him as an individual, but I can also see why it would fail the further action test.

Especially in that industry and/or at those levels there will be a lot more skeletons in the closets than this. The volume of employees in large organizations with significant files of concerning behavior is far more significant than many of you who haven't had that pleasure of exposure may think. Especially an organization the size of Red Bull has attorneys and HR people walking around on a daily basis whose almost sole job is to surpress things like this. Doesn't mean the person committing things is any better, but it does show many things are measured with different cups.

Bigger issue at hand at this point seems to be how long the distraction will last for RB and if it's willing to cope and ensure it or whether the distraction becomes too much. Whoever is leaking this probably knows that too- that the damage of the distraction is possibly worse than the act that preceded it.

Not sure how you can read those messages and not take away sexual harassment or abuse of authority from the behaviour of Horner. Time for F1 to step in and dismiss this creep.

 

[Amar__]

It's textbook sexual harassment, and he deserves big fine or whatever for it, but we are idiots for reading someone whatsapp coversation too, I feel wrong and weird for reading it as it's pretty private tbf. Feel sorry for her though, as she is obviously not happy with what he was sending her.

Saying that, messages can be tricky sometimes, they could well be pretty close in private but conversation on the phone might not show it, from some examples it seems like she was pretty close to him(she was the one who suggested masturbating earlier if I read that well, and we don't know what exactly how she talked and acted to him in private), but I would say his wife leaving him and a massive fine will show him enough.

Whoever leaked the pictures deserves a big fine too(if she already accused him anyway, there is absolutely no reason for public to see it).

 

[Ahmer Baig]

 

[Ahmer Baig]

 

[F-Red]

Not sure how you can read those messages and not take away sexual harassment or abuse of authority from the behaviour of Horner. Time for F1 to step in and dismiss this creep.

Precisely, in any other job or industry it’s gross misconduct and dismissal. A position of a CEO harassing an employee for pictures is what it boils down to.

Questions should be asked of Red Bull GmbH’s disciplinary process and its madness to think some apologists are seeing the distraction to the day job bigger than the process of a sizeable company setting a precedent saying it’s acceptable for a CEO of a company to harass an employee to send naked pictures. If this goes to a tribunal, it would be a pretty one sided case on the basis of Horners abuse of position.

 

[M16Red]

I disagree. Horner is in a position of power and he shouldn't be flirting and sexting lesser employees.

It's her choice, if she went back to him with NO your married and this is inappropriate, then he used his position of power to force some type of sexual response then maybe.

But trying to put a stopper on flirting in a work place, between different level employees by social shaming is IMO very poor.

 

[dinostar77]

Yeh apparently, Russell and Hamilton went different directions after FP2. Hamilton went for a race setup under heavy fuel load and Russell went for a qualy setup to get grid position. But he screwed the setup by trying something on the car that didnt work out (no idea what).

Still a weird stat that Russell has out qualified hamilton at every night race since they became teammates.

 

[SilentWitness]

It's her choice, if she went back to him with NO your married and this is inappropriate, then he used his position of power to force some type of sexual response then maybe.

But trying to put a stopper on flirting in a work place, between different level employees by social shaming is IMO very poor.

Look at the messages. There are clear instances where you can see Horner is being pushy and othere where he calls her boring and stuff for not wanting to do things. That's manipulative behaviour.

Flirting isn't bad between two reciprocating parties and it may have been that at one stage but it does seem there were others that weren't reciprocative. Also, it's not considered professional to start relationships with your employees due to the power dynamics involved.

 

[rimaldo]

Look at the messages. There are clear instances where you can see Horner is being pushy and othere where he calls her boring and stuff for not wanting to do things. That's manipulative behaviour.

Flirting isn't bad between two reciprocating parties and it may have been that at one stage but it does seem there were others that weren't reciprocative. Also, it's not considered professional to start relationships with your employees due to the power dynamics involved.

aye, he’s basically f1’s weinstein, with red bull providing the hollywood cover up.

 

[M16Red]

Look at the messages. There are clear instances where you can see Horner is being pushy and othere where he calls her boring and stuff for not wanting to do things. That's manipulative behaviour.

Flirting isn't bad between two reciprocating parties and it may have been that at one stage but it does seem there were others that weren't reciprocative. Also, it's not considered professional to start relationships with your employees due to the power dynamics involved.

This is inappropriate, that is all she had to say.

Also we are both talking about this with absolutely no context of their relationship.

I think what I'm trying to get at is that, when society starts policing messages between two people with zero understanding of the relationship between them or/and judge the persons from it as a form of social justice its not a good thing.

 

[rimaldo]

This is inappropriate, that is all she had to say.

Also we are both talking about this with absolutely no context of their relationship.

I think what I'm trying to get at is that, when society starts policing messages between two people with zero understanding of the relationship between them or/and judge the persons from it as a form of social justice its not a good thing.

she tried that, loads. he wouldn’t take no for an answer.

 

[SambaBoy]

This is inappropriate, that is all she had to say.

Also we are both talking about this with absolutely no context of their relationship.

I think what I'm trying to get at is that, when society starts policing messages between two people with zero understanding of the relationship between them or/and judge the persons from it as a form of social justice its not a good thing.

Agreed.

Calling it clear sexual harassment based on a few messages is dangerous.

 

[rimaldo]

Agreed.

Calling it clear sexual harassment based on a few messages is dangerous.

if those messages are genuine, which seems beyond the balance of probability, then it’s a pretty textbook case.

 

[RoadTrip]

I think all this stuff is a bit overblown. So far it sounds more stupid than anything. If she or him had some financial gain or losses from it or other professional negative or positive consequences on a personal level it's much more damning. Similarly if they can establish it was a direct abuse of authority, especially if she was a direct report. If none of those things apply I don't disagree it doesn't show well for him as an individual, but I can also see why it would fail the further action test.

Especially in that industry and/or at those levels there will be a lot more skeletons in the closets than this. The volume of employees in large organizations with significant files of concerning behavior is far more significant than many of you who haven't had that pleasure of exposure may think. Especially an organization the size of Red Bull has attorneys and HR people walking around on a daily basis whose almost sole job is to surpress things like this. Doesn't mean the person committing things is any better, but it does show many things are measured with different cups.

Bigger issue at hand at this point seems to be how long the distraction will last for RB and if it's willing to cope and ensure it or whether the distraction becomes too much. Whoever is leaking this probably knows that too- that the damage of the distraction is possibly worse than the act that preceded it.

And now, all our exchanges the other day make more sense.

 

[Rado_N]

if those messages are genuine, which seems beyond the balance of probability, then it’s a pretty textbook case.

You can prove anything with evidence though.

 

[RoadTrip]

This is inappropriate, that is all she had to say.

Also we are both talking about this with absolutely no context of their relationship.

I think what I'm trying to get at is that, when society starts policing messages between two people with zero understanding of the relationship between them or/and judge the persons from it as a form of social justice its not a good thing.

Agreed.

Calling it clear sexual harassment based on a few messages is dangerous.

Principally you’re not wrong, but in this case the mere existence of a relationship, in the context of those messages, is already significant. Sexual harassment isn’t just as binary as simply a man forcing himself onto a woman or vice versa. It can be much more nuanced, especially when a power / position of authority is involved.

That said, there could well be more to the story. And perhaps that’s what RBs investigation found. But, for me, the tone of those messages, including asking for messages to be deleted, is quite telling.

 

[United Hobbit]

It would be really interesting to see the messages in the correct order -

In the fifty shades ones, it looks like both are flirting with one another and it's equal

He then starts asking her for photos and that seems to be the point she gets uncomfortable? However these messages are earlier in the folder.

There's then a couple which read like they are right at the end, as she's explicitly telling him to stop

If I was GH I'd be leaving him as to me it's cheating, id also be wondering how much more went on, as it comes up about the hotels and one of them says not LA(?) as Geri will be there. So what happened at the races she wasn't there?

Why does he suddenly want her to stay in different hotels to him? Surely as his PA, she's there to assist him so it wouldn't be practical for her to stay elsewhere, you'd expect her to be in the same hotel and wouldn't think anything of it.

The WFH exchange is weird - as she said he hates when people do that, yet he's almost pressing her to do so - is it because he doesn't want her in the office and potentially telling people? How is she supposed to type up minutes (are they confidential?) on her home computer if her laptop is in the office? Unless it's linked to their storage, but if it was why would that have come up? Also asking her to delete the messages, almost insistently

Also does this show the exchanges from both phones? It mentions she has a work phone, are these just the messages from her personal one? As there's messages about work on there too.

I think the damming thing in terms of work, is the fact he continues to ask her for photos, after she's said no once or twice. Maybe once after the 50 shades where she's flirting with him (not appropriate when you have a wife imo) because he could have thought it was mutual, however he then brings it up on multiple occasions after she's said no. He should have realised she was uncomfortable with it and he'd gone too far

Also does it imply he picks out what she wears? One of the messages seems to suggest she's letting him look through her suitcase? Also the photo of her from behind in the skirt is completely inappropriate, unless we can't see the full photo and she's doing something work related, e.g. meeting someone and shaking their hand, but otherwise it's completely inappropriate to have a photo of your employee's arse that you've clearly taken. I'm female and would be straight to HR if one of my male bosses did that (not that anyone would want to!)

I think they'll go down the loss of reputation route, he's in a very public role so it'll potentially get to the point they need to be seen to be doing something about it. They'll probably claim it's by mutual consent.

It'll be interesting to see if any sky journalists ask him anything about it, as he's often featured. I reckon there's a pretty heavy embargo in place however!

Surely a simple way of checking if the messages are genuine would be to see if the dates and times match - check his diary to see if the meetings/race weekends that are referred to match?

 

[RoadTrip]

It would be really interesting to see the messages in the correct order -

In the fifty shades ones, it looks like both are flirting with one another and it's equal

He then starts asking her for photos and that seems to be the point she gets uncomfortable? However these messages are earlier in the folder.

There's then a couple which read like they are right at the end, as she's explicitly telling him to stop

If I was GH I'd be leaving him as to me it's cheating, id also be wondering how much more went on, as it comes up about the hotels and one of them says not LA(?) as Geri will be there. So what happened at the races she wasn't there?

Why does he suddenly want her to stay in different hotels to him? Surely as his PA, she's there to assist him so it wouldn't be practical for her to stay elsewhere, you'd expect her to be in the same hotel and wouldn't think anything of it.

The WFH exchange is weird - as she said he hates when people do that, yet he's almost pressing her to do so - is it because he doesn't want her in the office and potentially telling people? How is she supposed to type up minutes (are they confidential?) on her home computer if her laptop is in the office? Unless it's linked to their storage, but if it was why would that have come up? Also asking her to delete the messages, almost insistently

Also does this show the exchanges from both phones? It mentions she has a work phone, are these just the messages from her personal one? As there's messages about work on there too.

I think the damming thing in terms of work, is the fact he continues to ask her for photos, after she's said no once or twice. Maybe once after the 50 shades where she's flirting with him (not appropriate when you have a wife imo) because he could have thought it was mutual, however he then brings it up on multiple occasions after she's said no. He should have realised she was uncomfortable with it and he'd gone too far

Also does it imply he picks out what she wears? One of the messages seems to suggest she's letting him look through her suitcase? Also the photo of her from behind in the skirt is completely inappropriate, unless we can't see the full photo and she's doing something work related, e.g. meeting someone and shaking their hand, but otherwise it's completely inappropriate to have a photo of your employee's arse that you've clearly taken. I'm female and would be straight to HR if one of my male bosses did that (not that anyone would want to!)

I think they'll go down the loss of reputation route, he's in a very public role so it'll potentially get to the point they need to be seen to be doing something about it. They'll probably claim it's by mutual consent.

It'll be interesting to see if any sky journalists ask him anything about it, as he's often featured. I reckon there's a pretty heavy embargo in place however!

Surely a simple way of checking if the messages are genuine would be to see if the dates and times match - check his diary to see if the meetings/race weekends that are referred to match?

I think if the messages were not genuine, this would already have been very quickly and categorically refuted and dealt with.

The only saving grace for Horner in terms of mitigating the workplace harassment case is the “more to this story” beyond the messages, if it exists. Even then it’s dubious because he’s her boss.

In terms of the immorality of his actions, we don’t need to see any more to reach a conclusion there.

 

[SilentWitness]

This is inappropriate, that is all she had to say.

Also we are both talking about this with absolutely no context of their relationship.

I think what I'm trying to get at is that, when society starts policing messages between two people with zero understanding of the relationship between them or/and judge the persons from it as a form of social justice its not a good thing.

In the first line, youre simplifying the power dynamics and nuances involved in inappropriate internal relationships such as the one involved and she actually does in messages indicate it's inappropriate with her comments about his wife and children but he still persisted with stuff.

 

[mitChley]

It would be really interesting to see the messages in the correct order -

In the fifty shades ones, it looks like both are flirting with one another and it's equal

He then starts asking her for photos and that seems to be the point she gets uncomfortable? However these messages are earlier in the folder.

There's then a couple which read like they are right at the end, as she's explicitly telling him to stop

If I was GH I'd be leaving him as to me it's cheating, id also be wondering how much more went on, as it comes up about the hotels and one of them says not LA(?) as Geri will be there. So what happened at the races she wasn't there?

Why does he suddenly want her to stay in different hotels to him? Surely as his PA, she's there to assist him so it wouldn't be practical for her to stay elsewhere, you'd expect her to be in the same hotel and wouldn't think anything of it.

The WFH exchange is weird - as she said he hates when people do that, yet he's almost pressing her to do so - is it because he doesn't want her in the office and potentially telling people? How is she supposed to type up minutes (are they confidential?) on her home computer if her laptop is in the office? Unless it's linked to their storage, but if it was why would that have come up? Also asking her to delete the messages, almost insistently

Also does this show the exchanges from both phones? It mentions she has a work phone, are these just the messages from her personal one? As there's messages about work on there too.

I think the damming thing in terms of work, is the fact he continues to ask her for photos, after she's said no once or twice. Maybe once after the 50 shades where she's flirting with him (not appropriate when you have a wife imo) because he could have thought it was mutual, however he then brings it up on multiple occasions after she's said no. He should have realised she was uncomfortable with it and he'd gone too far

Also does it imply he picks out what she wears? One of the messages seems to suggest she's letting him look through her suitcase? Also the photo of her from behind in the skirt is completely inappropriate, unless we can't see the full photo and she's doing something work related, e.g. meeting someone and shaking their hand, but otherwise it's completely inappropriate to have a photo of your employee's arse that you've clearly taken. I'm female and would be straight to HR if one of my male bosses did that (not that anyone would want to!)

I think they'll go down the loss of reputation route, he's in a very public role so it'll potentially get to the point they need to be seen to be doing something about it. They'll probably claim it's by mutual consent.

It'll be interesting to see if any sky journalists ask him anything about it, as he's often featured. I reckon there's a pretty heavy embargo in place however!

Surely a simple way of checking if the messages are genuine would be to see if the dates and times match - check his diary to see if the meetings/race weekends that are referred to match?

I think she put a stop to their affair, which is why the talk of different hotels came up, and the talk of "don't say it if Geri would think it's unacceptable".

If it's real then Horner is a real creep.

 

[adexkola]

If you work or have worked enough in an office for a large company, you've taken enough training to know not to feck around with even the very appearance of sexual harassment, given how even comments or gestures made in good faith can be misconstrued. And for bosses with people reporting to them, it's even more serious. You can't appear to, or actually be acting inappropriate towards subordinates; it undermines confidence in management acting fairly.

This is incredibly sloppy from Horner. If he was sacked he could have zero complaints. And he's lucky he doesn't work for an organization that has zero-tolerance policies, or that he's valuable enough that they're willing to take a more nuanced approach to his behavior.

Given his unique value to Red Bull, and given that the contents of the leaked material (I'm going off second hand accounts, I'm not reading that shit) are cringe, but there's no evidence of coercion or anything of that nature, I wouldn't be surprised if they had him do a shit-ton of training, gave him a warning, and settled with the complainant.

If their process has "cleared" him, they simply look stupid bowing to public opinion. Make things right with the victim, draw a line regarding future behavior, fine him, and move on. The press will blab on it for a week then will move on to Ferrari's latest SNAFU on the track.

 

[Rams]

RB cut 2 weird crude holes to the back top of their cars before final practice, obviously the cars must have had overheating with all Horney leaks.

 

[Rams]

But seriously, that’s weird. Specially from RedBull to do that at race weekend. They must have some issues with overheating and that could be an issue on race day.

 

[Redplane]

I'm not going to directly respond to some of you who already made themselves judge jury and executioner in this case.

All I can do is speak from a lot of experience being a part of workplace investigations. 99% of people speak out of turn about things they have very little knowledge of. Much of that is expected because not everyone has the right to know every detail. Innocent til proven guilty and a lot of it is also designed to protect the accuser. I've seen people's lives ruined because employees and press who had very limited knowledge made assumptions about the full details of the case or named people who had nothing to do with it. A lot of people will believe what they believe even if you were to publish every detail of the investigation. There is no point. Situations are hardly ever cut and dry.

Anyhoo...race day yay

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Sick off the Horner stuff now.
First race of the season is 35 mins away, can Max convert his pole to a win, can the Ferrari’s challenge him, are Mercedes hiding some race speed .
Midfield looks like a close battle , a few teams are very close.

 

[Redplane]

Sick off the Horner stuff now.
First race of the season is 35 mins away, can Max convert his pole to a win, can the Ferrari’s challenge him, are Mercedes hiding some race speed .
Midfield looks like a close battle , a few teams are very close.

Hear hear. I've said what I have and I'm ready to talk track stuff again. Can't wait !

 

[Redplane]

Patrice! What a suave dude.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Love these grid walks