Facebook, Amazon etc....

[Vidyoyo]

There's some politics at play here. Facebook's scrutiny seems so much larger than almost almost all other companies who freely take your data because of the criticism they've received for driving targeted ads/groups during the US election and EU referendum. I still don't think their foul play is necessarily that much different to the likes of Niantic who will have made great use of the location data people gave them in exchange for Pokemon Go.

But all this bad press is great. People need to be much more aware that no online service comes without a cost.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

I fecking hate social media.

 

[DOTA]

Only a matter of time before the truth outs about Niall selling our data to LFC Supporters Trust.

 

[Raoul]

Only a matter of time before the truth outs about Niall selling our data to LFC Supporters Trust.

Niall used to be an admin at KopTalk.

 

[Oscie]

Facebook is tedious as feck anyway. If you don't give a toss about baby photos, Lad Bible or those videos where someone makes a creme brulee out of a sock, a tube of toothpaste and Aunt's Bessie's frozen Toad in the Hole, then what's of interest?

For its faults Twitter tends to be more interesting as my 'feed' (or whatever the feck) tends to be filled by people I've chosen to follow as I find them interesting. My Facebook feed tends to be contributed towards by people I've circumstantially interacted with through the years.

 

[Dan]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Raoul]

Thread

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Dan]

He’s too scared to come to the UK.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Florida Man]

For anyone interested in good (and light) reading material on the subject matter of data collection, I’d recommend the book All You Can Pay.

 

[Javi]

For anyone interested in good (and light) reading material on the subject matter of data collection, I’d recommend the book All You Can Pay.

tl.dr? Or what is it about in broad terms?

 

[Rado_N]

Thread

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Is anyone really freaked out by any of that? Surely people are aware that Google store all this stuff?

 

[villain]

I don't understand why you would sync your phone number to facebook in the first place?

I get that it's easier and more convenient in terms of contacts - but surely most people you know, know the other people that you know?
Therefore when you start adding a few friends, your "do you know?" list is also filled with other friends/associates.
That's how I build up my social media feed anyway.

Since I stopped giving facebook access to my camera & microphone, the 'conveniently well-timed' sponsored content doesn't appear anymore (eg talking about holidays, and an ad for BA appears)

It appears to me that more information/education is needed with regards to internet safety.

 

[esmufc07]

Is anyone really freaked out by any of that? Surely people are aware that Google store all this stuff?

I thought so too.

When I had an Android phone a few years back I was surprised at how explicit it is when downloading an app what information it can access and store. Everything from accessing your contacts, to reading your messages. Not surprising.

And I've no issue with giving a company access to this information, though they need to be better and do more at ensuring the information is secure.

 

[Raoul]

Is anyone really freaked out by any of that? Surely people are aware that Google store all this stuff?

Freaked out is probably a bit hyperbolic, but its generally a bit disturbing that people have to jump through this many hoops to delete their own data from each of their devices.

 

[villain]

Freaked out is probably a bit hyperbolic, but its generally a bit disturbing that people have to jump through this many hoops to delete their own data from each of their devices.

Not that I agree with what facebook is doing - but surely the user signed up for this by allowing them access in the first place?
They ask you to view your contacts, your email contacts, your photos, your microphone, your location data, your job & school history etc - surely red flags should've been signalled at that point?

You may have not thought that they would intrude on your day to day life, but i'm sure they would've covered this in their T&C's also.

Unless i'm misunderstanding and facebook is getting information without consent first.

 

[Raoul]

Not that I agree with what facebook is doing - but surely the user signed up for this by allowing them access in the first place?
They ask you to view your contacts, your email contacts, your photos, your microphone, your location data, your job & school history etc - surely red flags should've been signalled at that point?

You may have not thought that they would intrude on your day to day life, but i'm sure they would've covered this in their T&C's also.

Unless i'm misunderstanding and facebook is getting information without consent first.

Yeah true, but I don't think users are generally thinking about the scope and breadth of what they are agreeing to. Like most people, they unconsciously just click yes so they can gain quick access without getting bogged down with fine print.

 

[Amar__]

Lately when I am meeting new people from random places I get those people as suggested friendship on facebook in just day or two. I mostly had zero mutual friends on facebook with them, and I just met them

I mean, it's quite clear from few years ago that they are recording anything, depending how important you are to them.

 

[Florida Man]

tl.dr? Or what is it about in broad terms?

A big theme around it is "what exactly are the big data giants doing with all our data?" It also explores about how companies can use data to ascertain what each person is willing to pay for any given product or service, and goes into examples of this in motion. It seeks to shed light on the lack of transparency with companies who mine a lot of our data and encourage consumers to be more aware of what's being collected about them.

 

[villain]

Yeah true, but I don't think users are generally thinking about the scope and breadth of what they are agreeing to. Like most people, they unconsciously just click yes so they can gain quick access without getting bogged down with fine print.

Yeah for me personally, I would say that only strengthens the argument that people need more education on internet awareness, probably among the older generation who just unconsciously click yes.

 

[VP89]

Not that I agree with what facebook is doing - but surely the user signed up for this by allowing them access in the first place?
They ask you to view your contacts, your email contacts, your photos, your microphone, your location data, your job & school history etc - surely red flags should've been signalled at that point?

You may have not thought that they would intrude on your day to day life, but i'm sure they would've covered this in their T&C's also.

Unless i'm misunderstanding and facebook is getting information without consent first.

Yes but users would agree to it out of what Facebook is selling it to do. E. G. Contact allowance so that the user can use the messenger app to send an sms out of convenience, or mic so it can take a command and so on.

Storing the data for other purposes was never disclaimed to users if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Florida Man]

Lately when I am meeting new people from random places I get those people as suggested friendship on facebook in just day or two. I mostly had zero mutual friends on facebook with those people

I mean, it's quite clear from few years ago that they are recording anything, depending how important you are to them.

Just happened to me recently in a similar fashion. I met these two young ladies from NY in Miami this past weekend, and when I searched for the name on FB, they were the first result each. It's as if FB knew our devices were next to each other.

 

[Dan]

Just happened to me recently in a similar fashion. I met these two young ladies from NY in Miami this past weekend, and when I searched for the name on FB, they were the first result each. It's as if FB knew our devices were next to each other.

If you’ve given the FB app permission to location services on your phone then they’ll use it for this exact purpose.

 

[Raoul]

Just happened to me recently in a similar fashion. I met these two young ladies from NY in Miami this past weekend, and when I searched for the name on FB, they were the first result each. It's as if FB knew our devices were next to each other.

You weren't by chance at Ultra were you ?

 

[Amar__]

If you’ve given the FB app permission to location services on your phone then they’ll use it for this exact purpose.

Pretty much every app is asking for controlling thr location when you are installing it, that's the problem.

I also got friend suggestion for people I talked on the phone, without ever meeting them in person. And they live nowhere near me.

 

[Florida Man]

You weren't by chance at Ultra were you ?

I was one of the rare few who didn't travel for that. I went to watch Peru v Croatia. Though, I did end up passing by Ultra on a boat.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Not that I agree with what facebook is doing - but surely the user signed up for this by allowing them access in the first place?
They ask you to view your contacts, your email contacts, your photos, your microphone, your location data, your job & school history etc - surely red flags should've been signalled at that point?

You may have not thought that they would intrude on your day to day life, but i'm sure they would've covered this in their T&C's also.

Unless i'm misunderstanding and facebook is getting information without consent first.

This is exactly why I never installed Facebook, as well as other apps like this on my phone. If you look carefully most of them ask for insane levels of access to your data, its not just Facebook but Twitter and other social media apps, Pokemon Go and other gaming apps and hundreds of other smaller apps access your smart phone on a daily basis. I bet most millennials that install these apps don't even think about how they just gave permission to a dozen companies to fully access the data on their phone.

 

[SirAF]

If you’ve given the FB app permission to location services on your phone then they’ll use it for this exact purpose.

This explains quite a bit of odd stuff I’ve seen! Not that I mind though.

 

[Florida Man]

If you’ve given the FB app permission to location services on your phone then they’ll use it for this exact purpose.

I only use FB on a mobile web browser, so it probably extracts my location data without even having to ask.

 

[villain]

Yes but users would agree to it out of what Facebook is selling it to do. E. G. Contact allowance so that the user can use the messenger app to send an sms out of convenience, or mic so it can take a command and so on.

Storing the data for other purposes was never disclaimed to users if I'm not mistaken.

I'd have to see the T&C's to be sure, if I remember correctly, different functions will have different needs with your data.

For example third party applications will ask for access to your friends list for use specifically within the game, however when Facebook requests that information it doesn't limit it to only use within the application. And they probably cover themselves with this in their Terms.

This is exactly why I never installed Facebook, as well as other apps like this on my phone. If you look carefully most of them ask for insane levels of access to your data, its not just Facebook but Twitter and other social media apps, Pokemon Go and other gaming apps and hundreds of other smaller apps access your smart phone on a daily basis. I bet most millennials that install these apps don't even think about how they just gave permission to a dozen companies to fully access the data on their phone.

I would argue it's not the millennial's but rather the older generation who are at most risk here. Millennial's normally have multiple emails as a result of growing up with MSN messenger and such, but their private email won't be synced to facebook and such, for example.

But yeah I was saying earlier, I think a lot of this just comes under the blanket of ignorance when it comes to keeping your information safe online.

 

[Raoul]

I was one of the rare few who didn't travel for that. I went to watch Peru v Croatia. Though, I did end up passing by Ultra on a boat.

I'm sure Facebook has an algo that approximates search results to your geo-location, so if there were 100 identical names to those you searched, they may have prioritized the ones that were closest to you.

 

[Amar__]

People who have gmail or anything else, are not protected either. Basically every smartphone is useless without using some services, and pretty much every service out there is asking for ridiculous permisions to do with your phone. Fecking calculator on android is asking for stuff like turning the microphone on or off, let alone something like Facebook. There is really no point in hiding anything anymore, IMO.

 

[VorZakone]

Who the feck reads Terms & Conditions?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I'd have to see the T&C's to be sure, if I remember correctly, different functions will have different needs with your data.

For example third party applications will ask for access to your friends list for use specifically within the game, however when Facebook requests that information it doesn't limit it to only use within the application. And they probably cover themselves with this in their Terms.



I would argue it's not the millennial's but rather the older generation who are at most risk here. Millennial's normally have multiple emails as a result of growing up with MSN messenger and such, but their private email won't be synced to facebook and such, for example.

But yeah I was saying earlier, I think a lot of this just comes under the blanket of ignorance when it comes to keeping your information safe online.

I meant to edit and delete that millennials as I thought about it and its really every age group. You might be right about the emails but letting Twitter or Pokemon Go have access to your phone means they access all your data from your phone not just based on the email you signed into. They are getting all your phone contacts and in some cases your text messages. I know my kids and some of their friends (late teens, early 20s) have installed social media and game apps that mine your phone for data. AIf you look at the list of data they request access to it goes way beyond just geo-location.

 

[villain]

I meant to edit and delete that millennials as I thought about it and its really every age group. You might be right about the emails but letting Twitter or Pokemon Go have access to your phone means they access all your data from your phone not just based on the email you signed into. They are getting all your phone contacts and in some cases your text messages. I know my kids and some of their friends (late teens, early 20s) have installed social media and game apps that mine your phone for data. AIf you look at the list of data they request access to it goes way beyond just geo-location.

As a millennial, I genuinely don't know anyone who lets twitter have access to their phone number, (or anyone who still plays pokemon go for that matter), it comes to a point where you can recognise when you need to give an app certain information, and when they are just fishing for your data.
Twitter requesting your phone number falls into the latter category, there's no need for it to have your phone number and it won't affect your usage.

Besides the issue here is that gaming apps generally ask for a lot but don't actually have the ability to use your data for much*, Facebook & potentially twitter do because they have no means of monetisation except through sponsorship, which they'll justify to their clients using complex analytics and what have you.

*meaning that they don't normally have access to your personal data unless you consent to giving it to them. For example, your email address won't be available unless you sign up for a newsletter for example. Photos won't be accessible unless the camera is necessary for use within the game (and even in these situations, they normally stipulate that the camera will only be accessed for use within the game) Facebook, to my knowledge, doesn't specify this. It asks for your data, and that's it.

 

[Raoul]

As a millennial, I genuinely don't know anyone who lets twitter have access to their phone number, (or anyone who still plays pokemon go for that matter), it comes to a point where you can recognise when you need to give an app certain information, and when they are just fishing for your data.
Twitter requesting your phone number falls into the latter category, there's no need for it to have your phone number and it won't affect your usage.

Besides the issue here is that gaming apps generally ask for a lot but don't actually have the ability to use your data for much*, Facebook & potentially twitter do because they have no means of monetisation except through sponsorship, which they'll justify to their clients using complex analytics and what have you.

*meaning that they don't normally have access to your personal data unless you consent to giving it to them. For example, your email address won't be available unless you sign up for a newsletter for example. Photos won't be accessible unless the camera is necessary for use within the game (and even in these situations, they normally stipulate that the camera will only be accessed for use within the game) Facebook, to my knowledge, doesn't specify this. It asks for your data, and that's it.

Don't you need them to have your phone number for 2nd factor authentication ?

 

[villain]

Don't you need them to have your phone number for 2nd factor authentication ?

Yes, but again I don’t know anyone who uses it because they usually experience twitter through the app, and you’re always logged in.
Using twitter online is usually when the issue of 2FA comes into play.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

As a millennial, I genuinely don't know anyone who lets twitter have access to their phone number, (or anyone who still plays pokemon go for that matter), it comes to a point where you can recognise when you need to give an app certain information, and when they are just fishing for your data.
Twitter requesting your phone number falls into the latter category, there's no need for it to have your phone number and it won't affect your usage.

Besides the issue here is that gaming apps generally ask for a lot but don't actually have the ability to use your data for much*, Facebook & potentially twitter do because they have no means of monetisation except through sponsorship, which they'll justify to their clients using complex analytics and what have you.

*meaning that they don't normally have access to your personal data unless you consent to giving it to them. For example, your email address won't be available unless you sign up for a newsletter for example. Photos won't be accessible unless the camera is necessary for use within the game (and even in these situations, they normally stipulate that the camera will only be accessed for use within the game) Facebook, to my knowledge, doesn't specify this. It asks for your data, and that's it.

Are you sure about that? People said one-two years ago that Facebook wasn't accessing and collecting the level of data they were. I personally don't trust the policies of companies like Twitter or any of the others any more than Facebook.

Also I tried to test and on my phone neither Facebook or Twitter asked any permission when I just tried to reinstall them which was weird. Maybe I didn't get far enough in the sign up process to find out but I'll try testing later.

Just from a quick Google, its a few years old but it does look like some of Twitter's data collect is Opt-Out rather than Opt-In which is a huge problem:

https://www.recode.net/2014/11/26/11633282/twitters-now-collecting-data-on-which-apps-you-download

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...er-puts-trillions-tweets-for-sale-data-miners

 

[Dan]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[villain]

Are you sure about that? People said one-two years ago that Facebook wasn't accessing and collecting the level of data they were. I personally don't trust the policies of companies like Twitter or any of the others any more than Facebook.

Also I tried to test and on my phone neither Facebook or Twitter asked any permission when I just tried to reinstall them which was weird. Maybe I didn't get far enough in the sign up process to find out but I'll try testing later.

Just from a quick Google, its a few years old but it does look like some of Twitter's data collect is Opt-Out rather than Opt-In which is a huge problem:

https://www.recode.net/2014/11/26/11633282/twitters-now-collecting-data-on-which-apps-you-download

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...er-puts-trillions-tweets-for-sale-data-miners

If anyone was saying that Facebook wasn’t collecting data then that sounds like they weren’t aware of what Facebook was doing.
It was built on collecting your data from the very beginning when it was only for university students.

They won’t ask for your permission if you’re reinstalling because your phone will still have the personal settings collated. If you got a new phone then it would ask you however. You should be able to see the permissions in your phone settings though.

And again for twitter, because they rely on your data for monetisation purposes I wouldn’t expect it to be opt-in at all.
It’s a free service on a private platform, if they can have easy access to your information it will benefit them greatly.

That being said, hopefully this incident sparks a conversation about the best practices to ensure your data is safe online, and what data is accessible to companies.

 

[Raoul]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The moment this news came out, their stock once again tanked.