Both of these players had something to them though, an x-factor to pin all hopes on. Vidic for his tackling, heading and aggression - Evra for his pace and technique. Lindelof has no x-factor as far as I can see, we cannot pin our hopes on blind faith.
Fairplay to Lindelof: Starting to look the part now
- Thread starter Fortitude
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Revisionism? Neither looked like they would cut it in the PL for a United team in those first 6 months.
I remember that loss against City (3-1), and, IIRC correctly, Evra was beyond awful in that game (albeit, his 1st or 2nd game).
So he’s not good enough anymore?
From what I've seen so far Lindelof is rubbish unfortunately I hope he can turn it around. Frankly its a joke how much shit Smalling gets when he is just straight up a much better defender than Lindelof, and he is strong in the air. That being said I don't want to see Lindelof leave, I believe he deserves the chance, he isn't very good atm but he has shown plenty of upside and potential, unfortunately thus far I'm yet to see him play well in a back 4, all of his good performances came when we were playing 3/5 at the back.
EDIT: I think I missed a league cup match or FA cup game where he apparently played really well, so I'm not sure what to say about that, did we play 4atb that game?
EDIT: I think I missed a league cup match or FA cup game where he apparently played really well, so I'm not sure what to say about that, did we play 4atb that game?
Blind is twice the ball-playing defender that Lindelof is, can defend better and is probably better in the air (as amazing as that sounds). It is criminal that I've not seen Blind since forever.
Smalling and Blind is absolutely golden.
Smalling and Blind is absolutely golden.
This forum is hilarious at times.
Evra yes. Vidic was a little rough around the edges but the potential was certainly there.
Has to improve his concentration and reading of the game massively. Also definitely needs to bulk up and improve in the air. Got bullied completely by Benteke.
Looks nervous too often for me. I hope he comes good but he hasn't started well.
It is hard to identify any facet of the CB role that he really excels at. All of our other senior options have something about them that stands out as a strength.
Bailly-Front foot aggression, wins the ball high, exceptional athlete, backs it up with decent ball playing ability.
Smalling-One of the best in the game aerially.
Jones-Solid all round, closest to a natural leader
Rojo-Tenacity, aggression.
Blind-World class ball playing ability
What is Lindelof exceptional at? Not that quick, not that strong, vulnerable in any type of 1v1. Compared to Blind he is mediocre on the ball. Is it his reading of the game? Not from what I can tell.
Bailly-Front foot aggression, wins the ball high, exceptional athlete, backs it up with decent ball playing ability.
Smalling-One of the best in the game aerially.
Jones-Solid all round, closest to a natural leader
Rojo-Tenacity, aggression.
Blind-World class ball playing ability
What is Lindelof exceptional at? Not that quick, not that strong, vulnerable in any type of 1v1. Compared to Blind he is mediocre on the ball. Is it his reading of the game? Not from what I can tell.
I thnik his biggest problem is ...looking and being soft. He gets bullied and he seems not to enjoy the physicality of this league. He is not bad (ability-wise) but he needs to harden up.
Think him and Young were a nightmare at times last night.
He looks decent in his best games but no more than that. Might just be one of those duff buys. We'll have to see.
Don't really know where this thread came from to be honest - hadn't really noticed him doing anything spectacular in the last few months (bar cutting out silly mistakes).
He looks decent in his best games but no more than that. Might just be one of those duff buys. We'll have to see.
Don't really know where this thread came from to be honest - hadn't really noticed him doing anything spectacular in the last few months (bar cutting out silly mistakes).
Albeit I am Swedish, I am not entirely certain VNL will become a top-class PL-defender. At least not for a year or two. Is United going to cope with Smalling as the defender to rely until VNL and Bailly are full fledged defenders? If they ever will be? I feel a bit uncomfortable with that. Smalling is a good, sometimes very good, PL-defender of the "classic brand". Will Jones be the bridge between now and the future? Many questions, which make me lean toward buying a new first rate defender this summer.
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It is like when Darmian was getting hyped up for his first few games(when he never came out of his own half) People are desperate for new signings to impress so are less harsh on them than old timers.
Watching him head the ball is like watching your Gran fall down the stairs. You just hope the damage isn't too bad.
I’ve my doubts about him so far.Its early days and it’s a big step up for him but he just looks a nervous wreck under a high ball it’s as if he doesn’t know whether to stick his boot up his head or just leave it bounce.I’m hoping Bailly starts Saturday as I think Kloop will target him.i honestly thought he would go with Bailly last night.
Must be one of the only ones who thought he wasn't that bad. He's an OK player right now, I just want to see him be more adventurous with his passing otherwise we might as well have played Tuanzebe.
I feel many on here try too hard to look for any positives they can find in his performances. Yes he's new to the league and fairly young but taking that into consideration I just don't see anything in him that makes him valuable to us.
He looks so far away from being a regular PL defender let alone starting for us. Smalling who rightfully gets criticised on here looks about two levels above Lindelof and that speaks volumes of Lindelof's current level.
He looks so far away from being a regular PL defender let alone starting for us. Smalling who rightfully gets criticised on here looks about two levels above Lindelof and that speaks volumes of Lindelof's current level.
Will get destroyed by Liverpool if he plays. Not ruling him out as a signing but he really shouldn't play against Liverpool atm.
He's not currently that good against aerially strong opponents but that doesn't mean that a) he's not effective against smaller CFs like Aguero/taller but more technical CFs like Benzema and b) that he can't learn. Perhaps it's a bit unfair to criticise him when he's 1.87m and Benteke is 1.91m and the Norwegian boy was 1.93m.
He can also play at RB because he is good on the ball and has the agility. It would be a throwback to the days when we had players who were more in the profile of CBs playing on the right e.g. Brown, O'Shea.
He can also play at RB because he is good on the ball and has the agility. It would be a throwback to the days when we had players who were more in the profile of CBs playing on the right e.g. Brown, O'Shea.
I am still not a huge Evra fan.... certainly never came close to Vidic's class
If Bailly is fully fit he should start in place of Lindelof on Saturday. Lindelof and Smaliing is an accident waiting to happen at times.
Lindelof and Smalling would be fine against Liverpool.
Thought he (Lindelof)played well and his distribution was the best in the team what with all the misplaced passes. He also instigated allot of our urgency in driving the back forward and passing whilst higher up the pitch. Can’t think of any blatant mistakes bad decisions or positional play unlike Smalling, Valencia and young.
Smalling played a few nice passes between the lines in the comeback. Surprised me actually. However Palace were gassed by then and stopped pressing.
I have to say I never thought I would see the words World class and Blind in the same sentence!
For me Blind is an adequate squad player no more, his versatility gives us cover in a number of positions none of which I would call him world class in.
As much as I hate to use the word I think Lindelof has great "potential"to be a long term regular.
Bailly is hands down our best centre back and Lindelof has had hardly any chance to play alongside him .
Centre backs take time to settle as we have seen in the past with Vidic and further back Pallister, both went on to be fantastic centre backs.
I think the Bailly Lindelof combo would have a look and feel of the old Bruce and Pallister pairing which was in my view only second in terms of synergy and effectiveness to that of Rio and Vida
What are his strengths? You could see Vidic had heart, aggression, aerial ability even when he was settling. Pallister was quick, decent in the air, capable on the ball. What are Lindelof's?
Blind is not a great defender by any judgement but as a passer from the back he is one of the best in the game. Range, weight of pass, just not a good enough defender for that ball playing talent to overcome.
Incidentally would Pallister and Bruce be good enough now? They both struggled very badly in the European Cup towards the end, Bruce was very slow, great against the physical strikers in English football but against the clever types in Europe his limitations were exposed. Loved him at the time, a CB scoring 20 goals in a season is just not on.
Fair point about Europe, even though around that time even Eric was struggling in Europe .
I just remember Pally looking right out of his depth in the early months before he settled. Bruce was the aggressive one while Pally was the ball player.
I feel that Bailly is similar to Bruce and Lindelof looks comfortable on the ball. I'm probably wrong but hope to God I am right as Good CB's are so hard to find
I kinda agree with you. Lindelof started awfully with Benfica too. His first games were shaky, he was caught out of position several times. I don't know if he can emulate the same thing here, but I hope so, because not only he has the talent to do so, he also is a nice person (probably a bit too nice for a CB
)He's been fine of late and no shame in getting a going over by Benteke who on his day with dominate lots of CB. Smalling didnt have his own way either and that's his strength. Whethers he's the answer or not, time will tell but I think he's better than most give him credit for for. I think the problem for us is we invite pressure so our defenders are always under scrutiny and pressure, where others believe the best form of defensive is attack....
Interesting, thought he would be fine there, no need to adapt.I kinda agree with you. Lindelof started awfully with Benfica too. His first games were shaky, he was caught out of position several times. I don't know if he can emulate the same thing here, but I hope so, because not only he has the talent to do so, he also is a nice person (probably a bit too nice for a CB
Agree he can be too nice and let opponents free for far too much, need to be a lot more ruthless and aggressive.
Now now, Lindelof is fine, posessing a good all-around qualities needed for and expected from a modern type of CB.
He's still adapting, as we can see his improvements along this season.
(Horrible pre-season and early season. Then average in many games, with the odd some good game. Then a lot more consistent fair enough rating game. Recent 2-3 games, made almost costly mistakes, but fine with the rest of the minutes, and actually showed frustrations for it which is good, and did one thing missing from our players, yelling everyone to be alert in that Chelsea game since final whistle have not yet been blown).
Just need to start be more consistent improving his overall form, and cut out those silly mistakes, and be a lot more ruthless.
He's still adapting, as we can see his improvements along this season.
(Horrible pre-season and early season. Then average in many games, with the odd some good game. Then a lot more consistent fair enough rating game. Recent 2-3 games, made almost costly mistakes, but fine with the rest of the minutes, and actually showed frustrations for it which is good, and did one thing missing from our players, yelling everyone to be alert in that Chelsea game since final whistle have not yet been blown).
Just need to start be more consistent improving his overall form, and cut out those silly mistakes, and be a lot more ruthless.
He just hasn't instilled me with any confidence in his performances.
He has cut out the calamities of earlier in the season but he looks a long way short of s real top centre half.
He has cut out the calamities of earlier in the season but he looks a long way short of s real top centre half.
He is a surprising player. While the flashes of brilliance are there to see, he definitely doesn't hold up to scrutiny when asked to perform at a higher level during important matches.
He has this knack of either doing something stupid, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time and that's what doesn't instill confidence in me that he can make it here. Of course, he is still very young, with his best days still to come but playing in Mourinho team and soaking up pressure is probably not the right opportunity for him at this stage in his career.
He has this knack of either doing something stupid, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time and that's what doesn't instill confidence in me that he can make it here. Of course, he is still very young, with his best days still to come but playing in Mourinho team and soaking up pressure is probably not the right opportunity for him at this stage in his career.
well... I read the thread title with great interest I can tell you,
but when did this happen exactly? -
but when did this happen exactly? -
TBF so did Rio when first arrived( not comparing), Stones for City last season and any number of CBs.
They take time to adapt and develop. I think he'll kick on next season
You see the difference today and it makes it apparent how much praise he was getting for so little. Needs to become much more aggressive/proactive and rely less on his partner to do the main defensive work while he avoids making basic errors.
We bought Bailly for a similar fee at a similar age. One is very good, the other is a dud. It happens. Games like today highlight the clear difference in defensive ability.
Agree with this!
Yep. And if the price of getting a Bailly is that you also get a Lindelof, I'll take it. Bailly is a phenomenal talent.