Fans treatment of our British players vs foreign?

[Andycoleno9]

This is tricky question which i wanted to post many times but i was afraid that it will be misinterpreted.
This is not dig or praise at any player who i will mention. Just i have a feeling that there is big gap in patience between those two. First to be clear here, i understand that every fan has soft spot for domestic players and higher expectations for foreigners but lately i have a feeling that there are double standards.

Fans lost faith in Lukaku, Fred, Lindelof, Depay, Blind very quickly. Even Zlatan was bashed after few bad games. Few bad games and people will find flaws in their game but at the same time for years there was a faith for Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Lingard. Now for McT, Rashford, all 3 new signings are labelled as perfect after 2 months in club and things like that. Lindelof lost header against Palace and some fans called for Tuanzebe next game.
I repeat i don't want to start debate are Rashford or AWB on one side and Lindelof or Depay on other side good or not and do they deserve praise or not. I am just asking English fans here do they think that they are too critical about foreign players while they give much support( and time) to domestic players.

Please, don't be offended for this question. I love England

 

[Steven Seagull]

Doesn’t happen with match going fans, only might seem prominent on here where we don’t know people’s nationality.

Also, the British players are constantly slated on here so I’m afraid this is nonsense

 

[limerickcitykid]

Rashford is called a fraud and shit by half this place while Lindelof has just had a free year of being invincible and doing no wrong despite only being decent. Smalling and Jones are called the chuckle brothers while Bailly has "all the tools" despite doing nothing but kick people in the head for years and be consistently outplayed by both of them. Rashford, Lingard, Shaw, McTominay, Jones, Young etc. threads are largely filled with vile dross.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I see the opposite. Fans seem to be all over lindelof despite him costing us a few points in the first few games and really just playing well for a fraction of a season so far. I can't really think of a British player fans have patience for bar garner Greenwood and gomes who haven't played, likely that will disappear after they actually play

 

[roonster09]

Simple case of reading what you want to read. Everyone gets so much criticism. Smalling even though played well was called as chuckle brothers.

 

[red4ever 79]

I dont think it's a nationality issue, because actually 4 of the players who get the most criticism are English. Jones, Young, Lingard and Rashford. I think there is much more emphasis on player performances these days compared back say 20 - 30 years ago. Did Steve Bruce make mistakes? Yes he did. However we didnt have social media repeating everything over and over again. Even the coverage back then was pretty limited. Nowadays people make a mistake and it is shown like 10 times during the game, then it's on twitter/youtube and on here.

I think fans nowadays have a lot less patience, especially the young generation, they are pretty much self entitled. You see that when players get racist abuse for missing a penalty. People just need to enjoy the games for what they are or stop watching and follow UFC

 

[GBBQ]

I think expectation is the main thing, non English players come to United with a lot of it and mostly through our own doing via muppet threads in the transfer forum. This is compared to a young player thrown into the team and doing well unexpectedly. So when your 50 mil midfielder Fred can't put together a run of form but academy product McTominay manages to be reliably consistent (if a little underwhelming at times) then you are automatically going to compare the two and wonder what we are actually getting for 50 mil.

Similarly Lukaku being one of our most expensive signings ever and not being able to trap a ball is probably going to come under a lot more scrutiny than Rashford, whose form is patchy but cost nothing and was a bit of a cult legend with how he started his senior career.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Simple case of reading what you want to read. Everyone gets so much criticism. Smalling even though played well was called as chuckle brothers.

I am not denying that this is maybe case here. Maybe it is. And i am not saying that English players are excused from criticsm. Jones, Smalling, Lingard and Young get that a lot(maybe even too much). But it took years for some to accept that they are not good enough for us. Foreign players don't get that much time. Just my feeling

 

[Judas]

Expected this to be the totally the other way around, the brave English lions on here get way more stick. There's a ridiculous dislike for England on here these days.

 

[Ban]

Yet you have other people saying British players are treated worse than foreign ones and everybody wants to get rid of them.

 

[kouroux]

I think there isn't much difference in treatment among the fans in all honesty. The media though, clearly love its english (or to keep it general, players from the same country) players

 

[Speedicut75]

I think you can read whatever you want into any situation where the players' nationality is concerned. I would look at the comprehensive abuse/criticism ( warranted or not ) that Lingard gets: it appears to encompass both his professional & personal life, and seems to elicit some really vitriolic stuff.

 

[GoldanoGraham]

Think it’s down to perceived passion and want to be at the club.

We’ve had a number of mercenaries here for the cash only and when the going gets tough want out - the perception is that homegrown players care more for the club so supporters have more affinity.......

That’s why the strategy is now to sign British players who are more likely to want to be here for more than just cash.....or promote from the academy

Saying that - you couldn’t say that Lingard and Rashfords antics on social media over the summer has stopped them from getting slated on the Caf.

Effort and desire go along way......irrespective of where you come from

 

[Speedicut75]

I think there isn't much difference in treatment among the fans in all honesty. The media though, clearly love its english (or to keep it general, players from the same country) players

I don't know about that, they certainly went after Rooney with a passion, and up until recently their self-righteous ire, for all things wrong with the game, was firmly directed towards Raheem Sterling.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Expected this to be the totally the other way around, the brave English lions on here get way more stick. There's a ridiculous dislike for England on here these days.

I don't think that is the case. Kane and Sterling play for our rivals and despite that you will find only praise for them. Most of us here even think that Sterling is the best English player right now. 100% of Caf has Sancho as perfect signing for next year. Also fans here are already in love in AWB and Harry. Lingard is the only English player right now who is "hated"( i can't mention Jones because he doesn't even play anymore)

 

[Judas]

You can view it that way, and everyones perspective is going to be different, but people are very very quick to put the boot in on a English player when they mess up.

Overall though I don't think this is a massive issue.

Argentinians are probably the most abused on here, what with the idiotic notion we should never sign one again due to a few not going so well, which is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Bojan11]

The only protected players on here are injured players. They seem to get better with every game they miss.

But the OP has a point about the British bias. Not necessarily here but on Sky or BT there is bias. Most of the clowns on those channels still call Lingard a young player.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Well Pogba was getting abuse was from match going fans last season. I also recall Fellaini being booed as well.

 

[Cassidy]

Doesn’t happen with match going fans, only might seem prominent on here where we don’t know people’s nationality.

Also, the British players are constantly slated on here so I’m afraid this is nonsense

Not sure that is true. Pogba and Fellaini spring to mind.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Rashford is called a fraud and shit by half this place while Lindelof has just had a free year of being invincible and doing no wrong despite only being decent. Smalling and Jones are called the chuckle brothers while Bailly has "all the tools" despite doing nothing but kick people in the head for years and be consistently outplayed by both of them. Rashford, Lingard, Shaw, McTominay, Jones, Young etc. threads are largely filled with vile dross.

You’re cherry picking here. You can equally say Bailly is called a donkey, Lindelof has been called shit from day one by anyone with an affiliation towards Smalling, Fred is garbage, Martial FC, DDG is past it etc, etc.

I think the majority of our players get slated it’s that simple. Some have certain biases towards individual players, I find that more prevalent.

 

[kouroux]

I don't know about that, they certainly went after Rooney with a passion, and up until recently their self-righteous ire, for all things wrong with the game, was firmly directed towards Raheem Sterling.

Of course there are a few examples but generally speaking. Fans don't have time for that nationalistic stuff, they just want the best for their clubs. Medias have all agendas

 

[Revan]

I agree with the OP to be fair, and found always weird how some people here seem to think that English players are treated worse.

 

[flappyjay]

This thread is confusing, there was something about Rashford during his debut season or Jose Mourinho's season where someone said if his name was Rashninho from Brazil people wouldn't doubt his talent as he was already getting some abuse at that stage. Also as someone already pointed out Lindelof had an average season last year but according to a lot of the forum he had a good season.

The patience for Shaw came from the fact that he spent most of his first 3 season recovering from long-term injuries. Now that he has had a full uninterrupted season he is seen as the weak link of the defense. Mind you that's despite being player of the year. I think I am a bit more unbiased as I am foreign myself.

 

[Skills]

In genera the treatment of our players is quite horrible.

 

[roonster09]

I am not denying that this is maybe case here. Maybe it is. And i am not saying that English players are excused from criticsm. Jones, Smalling, Lingard and Young get that a lot(maybe even too much). But it took years for some to accept that they are not good enough for us. Foreign players don't get that much time. Just my feeling

Check Young's thread from the time he was signed, he was always criticized saying not good enough for ManUtd. Same with Lingard, after Van Gaal's second season and his criticism stopped for some time in 2017-18 when he scored few goals in that season.

Smalling and Jones achieved more than players like Bailly but gets more criticism. Rashford was criticized saying he is championship player.

Every player gets criticized, there are some who criticize English players a lot and there will be some who don't criticize English players much.

 

[Enigma_87]

In genera the treatment of our players is quite horrible.

This. Regardless of nationality.

We see from Pogba to Lingard and Rashford all getting a rough deal.

 

[roonster09]

I don't think that is the case. Kane and Sterling play for our rivals and despite that you will find only praise for them. Most of us here even think that Sterling is the best English player right now. 100% of Caf has Sancho as perfect signing for next year. Also fans here are already in love in AWB and Harry. Lingard is the only English player right now who is "hated"( i can't mention Jones because he doesn't even play anymore)

There are players like Mane, B.Silva, Laporte, VVD, Eriksen, Aguero, Silva, KdB who gets only praise here. It has nothing to do with nationality, this is ignoring the love in for Pep and Klopp. Players who are good are rated on caf, even though they play for rival clubs.

 

[roonster09]

In genera the treatment of our players is quite horrible.

Yeah exactly.

 

[JPRouve]

I agree with the OP to be fair, and found always weird how some people here seem to think that English players are treated worse.

It's not that weird, british players have a longer rope but seem to have a tighter noose.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Two issues being conflated here. Academy products and nationality.

Players that come through our academy should be shown more patience than expensive signings. As it happens they often aren’t shown the patience they deserve but maybe the OP perceives this patience with homegrown players as bias?

The supposed pro-English player bias is basically nonexistent from what I can see. The shit that Jones, Shaw, Smalling and Lingard have been getting over the last few years (and Rashford more recently) is all the evidence you need on that one. I fully expect the knives to come out for AWB and Maguire once the honeymoon period is over and they start having a few poor games.

 

[John Blund]

Fans treatment of Young, Valencia, Fellaini, Jones, Smalling, Shaw, McTominay, Rash, and so on just as bad as every other player. Somehow fans tend to get behind players that don't have the quality or the desire to play for us. Like Herrea, Kagawa, Di Maria and latest even Lukaku had some fans stirring up his departure claiming Ole is a shit manager.

Young isn't world class as left back, but his performance against Leicester was better than Chillwell's performance. Still, some of our fans moan about how bad and how little Young contribute with. McTominay isn't Kanté or Busquets, but he's taken major steps the last two seasons. And he's only 22. He can be a dominating midfielder for us in years to come. Somehow, some of our fans would rather have us bring in some "proven" midfielder from clubs in Portugal, Nederlands or wherever. I don't get it. This forum has become quite toxic towards our players the since SAF retired.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Let's take Rashford and Lukaku as they seem the most obvious ones pro Mourinho posters keep bleating on about.

So, Rashford has come through the youth academy and while he's not perfect fits the profile of a United player (how good he becomes remains to be seen). He's pretty good and we spent nothing to get him. Lukaku is more proven, but cost us a bomb and never really fit the club due to technical deficiencies.

That should answer everything regarding those two. I do feel being a youth product should not exempt you from criticism. Ogden's article on Rashford a few days back was a joke. However there are definitely reasons favoriing Rashford over Lukaku and I'd pick the former if given a choice as well.

Depay is also a bad example. He was absolutely useless for us. I'd have put a buy back clause for him but everyone supported him despite his woeful peformances.

Fred is another one. Done sweet feck all for us. I don't see how he can be compared to Jones and especially Smalling who have performed for us over the years but over time waned. Jones was excellent early on his United career. Smalling was good for most of his United career. Fred has been terrible.

Look, I do feel any club will allow a tiny amount more leeway to those who get the club - whether that's through nationality, the youth system or forging connections with team mates/fans. So I won't deny that exists but there's many factors at play and you can't apply it everyone (as I've highlighted above).

Blind was IMO a big mistake. But was it fans patience that got him sold or Mourinho needing tall CBs?

 

[davidmichael]

I think we criticise our own players more than any other team regardless of whether they’re British or foreign, we were so spoiled under Sir Alex and used to being the best that anything less is unacceptable and we constantly look for changes in the hope something will click.

Rashford is one of the top 4 English forwards around (Kane, Sterling and Sancho would probably be the top 3) yet there’s currently a thread asking if Tammy Abraham is better than him simply because Abraham has scored a few goals in his 5 game Premier League career, I think Rashford scored 5 in his first 3 games for us when he first came through too.

An argument can be made if McTominay plays consistently well for 5 or so games but Fred and Fellaini who cost a combined £80 million can’t string 2 games together but up until late last season McTominay was seen by many as youth product version of Fellaini because he was tall and effectively nothing else.

You could search through thread history and see that pretty much every single player in our squad has got lots of hate over the past 5-6 years regardless of nationality and that’s because it’s been such an unbalanced squad that it’s hard for pretty much anyone to look great, at least Ole is trying to give us a style and an identity and give the squad balance.

If Ole manages to bring in Sancho and Maddison (who are heavily rumoured to be his top two targets) then we’ll have signed 5 British players in a row as our main transfers whilst moving on Sanchez, Lukaku, Darmian, Herrera, Valencia and most likely by then also Rojo and Matic who are all foreign so the amount of foreign players in (I’m being hypothetical in this) our potential starting 11 would be De Gea, Lindelof, Pogba and Martial but once all the players are on the pitch I think the criticisms of their performances will be on their performance and never on their nationality.

 

[Ødegaard]

I think it's very two-sided issue.
Some will give leeway to anyone British, and have faith in the likes of TC23, JLingz & Welbz way too long. Others will hate on them before they get to find their feet.

I also think most people who fully judge a new player who hasn't played in the league to be a bad signing before they've had a year to settle are horribly reactionary. You can say they aren't ready if they aren't performing from the first season, but to dismiss what got them to the league in the first place often seems premature.

 

[settembrini]

I agree with all the people saying the OP is wrong. British players get just as much criticism as foreign players from fans.

In fact if anything they get more because out of outdated and borderline racist stereotypes about how British players lack 'technical ability' compared to foreign players.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Really? I'd say if anything it's the opposite. England are despised on here.

There's always criticism about us being Brexit FC etc, and a lot of people during the world cup were moaning about the "it's coming home" thing and willing England to lose.

There's a media bias for English players for sure, but on Redcafe? I'd say there's a bias against English players.

 

[ottosec]

There will always be knobheads like Gary Neville who think that foreign players should be blamed for everything and British players can do no wrong, but I think that overall the fanbase is consistent with praising/giving shit to players, no matter of their nationality.

You must also keep in mind that many of our British players come from the academy and they are (rightfully, in my opinion) given more leeway in the beginning.

 

[Ban]

Really? I'd say if anything it's the opposite. England are despised on here.

There's always criticism about us being Brexit FC etc, and a lot of people during the world cup were moaning about the "it's coming home" thing and willing England to lose.

There's a media bias for English players for sure, but on Redcafe? I'd say there's a bias against English players.

Let's not mix United with England national team.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Really? I'd say if anything it's the opposite. England are despised on here.

There's always criticism about us being Brexit FC etc, and a lot of people during the world cup were moaning about the "it's coming home" thing and willing England to lose.

There's a media bias for English players for sure, but on Redcafe? I'd say there's a bias against English players.

I am not saying that domestic players are safe from criticsm. Oh boy, they get it a lot. I was thinking more about patience. Domestic players( i am not talking about youth products) will just get more time to prove themselves. Foreigners will not.

And to be fair, jokes about "it is coming home" is something that you must expect after you decide to go with it. During wc it was good and funny banter to other fans but it was obvious from the start that it will haunt you if you lose.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Two issues being conflated here. Academy products and nationality.

Players that come through our academy should be shown more patience than expensive signings. As it happens they often aren’t shown the patience they deserve but maybe the OP perceives this patience with homegrown players as bias?

The supposed pro-English player bias is basically nonexistent from what I can see. The shit that Jones, Shaw, Smalling and Lingard have been getting over the last few years (and Rashford more recently) is all the evidence you need on that one. I fully expect the knives to come out for AWB and Maguire once the honeymoon period is over and they start having a few poor games.

Aye, I think new signings (who have played well) and youngsters are naturally going to get slightly overpraised and given much more latitude than established players of any nationality. Lingard going from young and learning to "young and learnin'" and Rashford going from hottest of young prospects to in some quarters an underachiever who believes his own hype shows it isn't nationality dictating fans' feelings towards players. For better or for worse the longer you have been in and around the first XI during this disappointing time people are eventually going to question your bona fides.