Ah my bad. He is several steps ahead of them with his 'lick the finger, stick it in the air and see which way the wind blows' betting method, so that totally makes sense.
Favourites to win World Cup?
- Thread starter Swordsman
- Start date
Make a poll on the strength of Argentina vs Brazil’s squad, pretty sure a vast majority will vote for Brazil being stronger. In fact Argentina may only have a single vote
Argentina has several advantages over Brazil, but squad strength isn’t one of them
So because Argentina won a game 1-0 last year against Brazil and drew another game v them ages ago, and beat Italy in a friendly, they have a better squad than Brazil and should have shorter odds to win the World Cup. Wonderful logic there.
Football is coming home it's coming.
Brazil, I think coming from South America they will be able to cope with the heat well and I feel like France are going to once again implode at another international tournament
They won 2 games and drew one. And then hammered Italy. Bit different. So yes, Argentina are more proven against big teams than Brazil in the recent past. Was something going on with Brazil that they were incapable of winning one of those 3 games for some reason? Brazil hasn't beaten a single big team in years. So while they have a very good midfield and attack (but a shit defence personnel wise), it's hard to judge, isn't it? Are you judging them to be favourites based on wins against Ghana, South Korea, and a mediocre Colombia, Chile, Uruguay and the rest of the qualifying who don't put up a challenge to the top European sides? The only times they played against one of the actual probably top 10 nations in the world, they failed to win.
And besides, I'm talking about team balance, and how they play on the pitch, how they are coached. Portugal arguably have the best squad in the world. They aren't going to win it because of their coach and how they play as a team. Player quality isn't the most important thing when there are multiple other top squads. The game isn't played on paper.
Last edited:
I'm saying team balance is better. I don't give a feck about Brazil having crazy depth in attack, if they are rotating dani Alves in at right back regularly and Telles is their best left back, and a 38 year old is their key CB in a back 4 (clear difference with Thiago Silva playing in a back 3 vs back 4 at this stage IMO), then I'm sorry, you aren't getting far.Make a poll on the strength of Argentina vs Brazil’s squad, pretty sure a vast majority will vote for Brazil being stronger. In fact Argentina may only have a single vote
Argentina has several advantages over Brazil, but squad strength isn’t one of them
@Andrade oh and to add on. What makes Brazil so much better now compared to 2018 when they were entirely average? All their best players like Neymar and Thiago Silva have declined since then, Marcelo, an all time great, isn't there anymore and is replaced by barely a premier league level player. In 2018, same coach, they were pretty shit to watch, and lost to Belgium in the quarter finals. Why will it be different now? I'd understand if they got a different coach in. But they haven't. The coach is the single most important role in football, and if that's not right, then you aren't getting far.
You cant be sure we see everything from VAR in replays so there’s low transparency - last time at the euros some of the offsides that lead to a goal wasnt even replayed. Scandalous really. Id say VAR can definitely be bent.
You seem to be quite confused about how goos the European teams are right now.
What's Brazil's defensive record ATM?
Against mediocre teams. Not that relevant.
The European teams that have dominated the world Cup for the past 20 years, including demolishing your Brazil, in Brazil, in 2014? In fact you have better coaches in charge of the big European teams than at any point in the past 15 years. How often do you have 3 champions league winning managers in charge of 3 of the traditional top nations, who have very good squads right now? That's what your competing with.
2018 was four years ago. Please get with the program. Neymar has not declined BTW. Vini Jr, Rodrygo, Eder Militao, Antony, Raphinha, Fabinho and a bunch of others were not in the squad then. Please wake up.
In your biased and frankly ignorant opinion
2014 was 8 years ago FFS. Shall we bring Oscar back Into the Brazil team? David Luiz? You do not seem to understand that things change, hence you putting stock in results that happened years ago. You're being ridiculous.
Also, current Argentina can beat these teams but Brazil can't? You're very confused bruh.
I'm failing to see how Portugal's squad is stronger than Brazil's. Could someone please elaborate on the matter? IIRC Portugal's european champion squad was eliminated by two southamerican teams different than Brazil and Argentina in recent tournaments.
Fair on Vini and Militao, though doesn't Militao play right back for you? The others are good depth but not really anything key...
Besides, player quality was not the reason Brazil flopped at the last world cup IMO. They just didn't play that well as a team, and Belgium, who were far from the best European side, deservedly beat them 4 years ago. There are much better European sides than that now.
Portugal have a great squad but a "terrorist" as they like to say as a manager who is in love with Ronaldo and will sacrifice team balance for him. Portugal in 2016 had a garbage squad but Ronaldo at his peak. They're much better overall now, but with a shit coach won't do much. Put Luis Enrique, Flick or Van Gaal in charge of them and they'd be the favourites IMO.
Not trying to be ignorant, but how isn't it true? Each of Colombia, Chile and Uruguay are at their lowest points for the past 10-15 years. It's only Argentina and Brazil who are at their best point of the past decade, but at the same time, they just haven't been tested that much. It's very hard to accurately judge a team who plays against lesser teams every game. It's like PSG in the champions league. They struggle to step up against other top teams, are out coached in those games, but 90% of the season hammer every opponent because of the weaker league. They don't have an elite coach, and it tells.
Are you going to try to tell me that Tite is an elite coach? Because that'd be laughable. Brazil's hope is that their individual quality in attack while playing defensive football is enough to overcome other superior coached sides. It's the same system as England, France and Portugal. It's not a system like Germany, Netherlands or Spain who will outplay pretty much every opposition due to having top managers, CL winning managers.
My two cents on this as a south american. COVID was particularly harsh on SA qualifying, particularly hammering the squads that didn't have enough depth (i.e. all of them but Brazil and Argentina) which mainly explains the huge difference between those two and the rest. Nevertheless, both Brazil and Argentina have looked reachable and beatable in short tournaments like Copa America, which I take as a suggestion that the difference isn't that big.
Concerning Brazil, for a long time they have been struggling to combine the pool of talent and flair they have in attack with the more deffensive mentality of their coach. If they make it work, they could have a terrifying Brazil 2002 type. If not, they could totally implode.
Argentina OTOH, while not having that much big names, do look more like a compact, balanced squad that tends to do well in these competitions: Scaloni has managed to fix the midfield void with Lo Celso, Paredes and De Paul who may not be tiki-taka quality but work together perfectly. That plus Lautaro workrate helps finding spaces an opportunities to older man-on-a-mission Messi and Di María to make the difference. The fixture also favors them.
I would also not discard Uruguay, who have their best midfield in decades (Valverde, Bentancur and De Arrascaeta/Vecino) and possibly the last bits of geniality from Cavani and Suárez. They haven't lost an official match yet since they changed their coach and they have a good fixture too if they top their group.
PS: IMO Brazil flopped in the last WC because they got their most important player (Casemiro) suspended for the match where he was needed the most. Fernandinho was no match for De Bruyne/Hazard.
Last edited:
What happened four years ago does not matter. Please try and understand this simple fact. Four years is an age in football.
Yes Tite is an elite coach
By the way, you also don't seem to understand that club football and international football are different. I couldn't give a crap if a manager has won the CL, it's a totally different test with a club.
Have to say, what an amazing list of talent that is. Football is feckin mint right now.
I’ll probably still a couple of hundred on Brazil. Anyone know what their starting 11 will look like? Is Telles an assumed starter?
At the risk of sounding stupid, Is there humidity in desert areas?
Its coming home.
Im not English. But this is their tournament.
They go edgy in the group stages. Then they go on a killing spree on the knockouts.
Kane scores 2 goals in group. 5 more in the knockouts.
Russia will not advance. (Even if they was in it)
Im not English. But this is their tournament.
They go edgy in the group stages. Then they go on a killing spree on the knockouts.
Kane scores 2 goals in group. 5 more in the knockouts.
Russia will not advance. (Even if they was in it)
I think the last 4 defending champions have gone out in the group stage right? In humiliating fashion too.
You said better squad, in any case go ahead, make a poll
To be honest I find it a bit strange that you keep praising Holland and keep putting down Brazil like that, when on paper you could make lots of regular starters - Pasveer, Blind, Berghuis, Bergwijn, Gakpo (total lack of international experience) and Klaassen - into frikandels. I'm not sure any of them would make the Brazil squad. I get the argument that good coaching may compensate, but then that would apply to Brazil also and I think it's a lot easier to compensate around (former) elite players, who have seen it all, than it is for a bunch of low profile players, who we have little idea about in terms of how they will respond to the pressure of a WC.
Can't see that happen this time, Australia and Tunisia are two of the worst teams at this world cup.
Still fancy Spain have an outside chance, they’ve got depth and passing accuracy to wear down any opponent.
Literally said better balanced squad. Which I'll stick to, because Brazil has a garbage defence on paper.
You said it, literally, not me. Anyway you do you but i doubt many, if any, will agree with you that Argentina has a better squad than Brazil.
Written in the stars.
Ah fair enough. The other posts I was saying squad balance, but anyway.
Southgate needs to stop watching Chelsea and Tottenham games and start watching City games to see how to use his players. England has so much talent in attack yet Southgate wants to play defensive football. I'd line up like so
----------------------------Pickford---------------------------
James------Maguire-------Stones----------Trippier
------------------------------Rice-------------------------
-------------Mount-----------------Bellingham--------
Saka--------------------Kane-----------------Foden
I don't usually like a right footed LB but in this team Foden would keep the width just like he does at City and Trippier could tuck in much like Cancelo does. I know I'm also going to catch slack for starting Maguire. I just don't know who else to play. Central defense seems to be one of the few areas where there are no definite stand outs right now. Same with the #6. No sure if Rice can do it on his own but this can easily shift into 4231 with Bellingham dropping and Mount given more of a free role.
If England plays to their strength (attack) rather than trying to squeak out 1-0 wins, they would be my favourite. But unfortunately Southgate is at the wheel...
----------------------------Pickford---------------------------
James------Maguire-------Stones----------Trippier
------------------------------Rice-------------------------
-------------Mount-----------------Bellingham--------
Saka--------------------Kane-----------------Foden
I don't usually like a right footed LB but in this team Foden would keep the width just like he does at City and Trippier could tuck in much like Cancelo does. I know I'm also going to catch slack for starting Maguire. I just don't know who else to play. Central defense seems to be one of the few areas where there are no definite stand outs right now. Same with the #6. No sure if Rice can do it on his own but this can easily shift into 4231 with Bellingham dropping and Mount given more of a free role.
If England plays to their strength (attack) rather than trying to squeak out 1-0 wins, they would be my favourite. But unfortunately Southgate is at the wheel...
Jordan Pickford playing as Ederson
Maguire playing as a high line defender
Trippier playing as Cancelo
Rice playing as Rodri
Mount playing as de Bruyne
And of course Sir. Gareth. Southgate. Starring as Pep Guardiola!
England confusing themselves with a Guardiola side would be the most entertaining team of the tournament, all the way through to the first knockout round exit and subsequent national meltdown.
You underestimate just how good England's attacking players are. You're not the first though. Remember, England did very well in the last two tournaments despite Southgate, not because of him
Those attacking players that you are clearly referring to weren't even there in 2018.
Also, I doubt he underestimates the attacking potential, just pointing out the clear flaws in the belief that England will just become some attacking possession heavy team overnight won't work given the central focal points to the setup from the back wouldn't be used to it at all except for Stones - who himself is in and out of City's team all the time anyway.
You'd essentially have to run with Walker as a genuine CB if that's how you wanted to play, likely with Stones. And that's going to cause it's own issues.
Especially 2018 was very impressive . 3x wins agains mighty Tunesia/Panama and Sweden . 1 draw against Colombia . And 3x lost against the first serious teams you faced . Belgium 2x and Croatia .