"FC United no different to us"

[very Ruud]

That’s the word from Old Trafford.

An interview in the Evening News with United’s marketing director Peter Draper.

Points to bear in mind:
1) Before coming to Old Trafford Draper was a match-going Leeds fan. He now professes an allegiance to United
2) He was brought to OT after working with Peter Kenyon at Umbro.


On FC United:

“It’s only a question of scale. The most interesting thing (about FC United) is that they aren’t letting anybody in for free. They will have a sponsor in due course. If they win promotion they will want to buy better players. In order to fulfil that wish they will start to sell nice butties rather than curly ones. Whatever they say about commercialism, you can’t exist without funding of some shape or form.

“People will have to pay to go through the gates. It might only be 50p at first and then it might increase to 60p. They’ll want to sign better players. It might be that I’m playing for Stalybridge United and getting paid £35 a week and FC United want me to sign for them for £37. but I don’t knock them for it. All power to their elbow.”


“A lot has been written in the Press of late about the Premiership bubble having burst. It is not something we should dismiss lightly. It’s incumbent on clubs to think about this very seriously.

“Football is very well run by professional people with good ideas. There has been a little bit of over-reaction to a couple of gates, but I don’t call it clap-trap. It’s up to us to take a long and hard think about the product that football offers – all the old stuff that people are concerned about on the terraces, such as how come, whether it’s true or false, that television is dictating kick-off times?

“Maybe we could win some people back.”

“I think a few more people have heard of us in the US now. Don’t get me wrong, we were already known to a lot of people.

“I’m very supportive of Joel and Bryan. We have learned so many things from the States. You’d have to have a head as big as a planet that you couldn’t learn anything from anybody.

“My appreciation of what’s happening with the new owners is that we are being trusted to do the same thing that we were known for doing.

“They are in this for the long term. I see no distinct change. For a few years we were publicly owned. But for most of our history we have been owned by a couple of blokes.”

Of course, a profitable entity changing overnight into a debt-laden one owing hundreds of millions of pound is anything but a “distinct change” isn’t it Peter? And we wonder if your son shares your view of Glazer, because if it wasn’t him one of our spies saw down at Old Trafford the night of the protest then it was someone who looked pretty damn similar.


http://www.redissue.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=245665

 

[The Hairdryer]

Do we really need another one of these threads Do you do anything other than post articles VR?

I see RI is crucifying another official at the Club for an innocent comment about the Glazers. Of course he couldn't be saying it of his own free will and must have a gun held to his head.

As for his comments about FC. Aren't you glad someone at the Club is at least recognising their existence? He's right about what he says about commercialism too.

 

[mickthered]

Whoever said it him or the club its just made him out to sound very petty and small minded

Makes you wonder how many heads are burried in the sand at Old Trafford with comments like these coming out from it

 

[Dubai_Devil]

What exactly has he said wrong here?

 

[26 may 1999]

It's all getting a bit boring now...

Watch something completely different...

For a laugh.

 

[Looking Busy]

Whoever said it him or the club its just made him out to sound very petty and small minded

Makes you wonder how many heads are burried in the sand at Old Trafford with comments like these coming out from it

We are actually assuming that this is what he said and not just snipets to make him look stupid. It wouldn't be the first time that half quotes, taken out of context have been used

 

[Life Of Smiley]

Draper

A man with his finger on the pulse of football culture.


Stalybridge United anyone?

 

[Life Of Smiley]

Erm

We are actually assuming that this is what he said and not just snipets to make him look stupid. It wouldn't be the first time that half quotes, taken out of context have been used

Nope, the journo threw it in as an aside to see if he'd even bite on the FCUM side of things. Draper then went into full on 'talk out of your arse' mode for five minutes.

They're hardly not going to use it, are they?

FCUM retort piece tomorrow night.

 

[Plechazunga]

It's "different from"

 

[Looking Busy]

Actually re-reading the article I don't see where the talking out of arse bit comes from.

Please enlighten me.

The no distinct change that he refers to has nothing to do with the financial side. It has to do with how the club is run as a business, and so far there hasn't been any distinct change.

 

[Life Of Smiley]

Actually re-reading the article I don't see where the talking out of arse bit comes from.

Please enlighten me.

The no distinct change that he refers to has nothing to do with the financial side. It has to do with how the club is run as a business, and so far there hasn't been any distinct change.

Oh right, a non-profit making supporter owned club is run along exactly the same lines as one owned by a family with the long term aim of seeing how much cash they can filter out of the business for themselves?

It's only a question of scale remember, the two are no different

 

[Wibble]

What on earth is controversial about what he is saying?

If FCUoM ever make it inot the upper leagues at some point they are going to need to sign better plaers and pay higher wages and that needs to be paid for somehow?

Basis common sense.

 

[Davo]

"all power to their elbow"?

Did no one else read that bit?

No wonder you've only won the European Cup twice...

 

[janunited]

"all power to their elbow"?

Did no one else read that bit?

No wonder you've only won the European Cup twice...

HA hA

 

[Looking Busy]

Oh right, a non-profit making supporter owned club is run along exactly the same lines as one owned by a family with the long term aim of seeing how much cash they can filter out of the business for themselves?

It's only a question of scale remember, the two are no different

So as long as FC are in business they will never make a profit will they.
They will never become commercially aware.
They will never raise the ticket price

Don't make me laugh.
FC united needed supporters money to set themselves up, if they become more successful they will need to start cashing in on the support. They will never do it to the same level as Manchester United, but they will never be as big. As the original article said it is all about scale.
FC United may be supporter owned but make no mistake to survive they will have to run the club as a business. The current players will only be able to take the club so far, then they will have to sign better players who will want more money, how will they may that money, by cashing in on the support.

If you think any different then you are clearly choosing to aviod some simple facts of life

 

[Life Of Smiley]

What on earth is controversial about what he is saying?

If FCUoM ever make it inot the upper leagues at some point they are going to need to sign better plaers and pay higher wages and that needs to be paid for somehow?

Basis common sense.

Who mentioned controversial?

Confused, out of touch and ill informed spring to mind. The only controversial thing I can think of, is MUFC pay the dozy fecker a very large wage.

 

[Life Of Smiley]

So as long as FC are in business they will never make a profit will they.
They will never become commercially aware.
They will never raise the ticket price

Don't make me laugh.
FC united needed supporters money to set themselves up, if they become more successful they will need to start cashing in on the support. They will never do it to the same level as Manchester United, but they will never be as big. As the original article said it is all about scale.
FC United may be supporter owned but make no mistake to survive they will have to run the club as a business. The current players will only be able to take the club so far, then they will have to sign better players who will want more money, how will they may that money, by cashing in on the support.

If you think any different then you are clearly choosing to aviod some simple facts of life

In short words to help you out a little here;

FCUM can not make a profit, end of.


It can have trading surpluss at the end of the financial year, but it has to stay inside the club, or be used specifically for club requirements. Nobody gets paid anymore, or gets a bonus if they do well, it stays put.

The supporters, or owners in their case, decide how far and how much is spent progressing the club, and at what point that stops.


Not some predatory shark with his fins in the till.


As for being commercially aware. Too damn right they are. Commercially aware enough to know they can happily survive charging people £28 for a brand new replica shirt on their puny buying muscle, compared of course to United's new ones sliding in at £45 a pop with their global buying power to back up the cost price.

The cloth on those Nike replicas must be pretty damn good for your extra £17.

If you think the two clubs outlook on commercialism is even remotely the same, you seriously need to go and have a word with yourself.

 

[The Hairdryer]

In short words to help you out a little here;

FCUM can not make a profit, end of.


It can have trading surpluss at the end of the financial year, but it has to stay inside the club, or be used specifically for club requirements. Nobody gets paid anymore, or gets a bonus if they do well, it stays put.

The supporters, or owners in their case, decide how far and how much is spent progressing the club, and at what point that stops.


Not some predatory shark with his fins in the till.


As for being commercially aware. Too damn right they are. Commercially aware enough to know they can happily survive charging people £28 for a brand new replica shirt on their puny buying muscle, compared of course to United's new ones sliding in at £45 a pop with their global buying power to back up the cost price.

The cloth on those Nike replicas must be pretty damn good for your extra £17.

If you think the two clubs outlook on commercialism is even remotely the same, you seriously need to go and have a word with yourself.

Quite simply if FC United want to climb the ladder and go into League Football they will have to increase the prices of those shirts or increase the gate in order to this.

United can't survive being one of the best Club's in europe let alone England without that sort of commercialism, neither could FC United if they were in the same boat.

If they don't want to do any of that and are happy playing lower or non-league football then that's fine. You can happily go about your business with much less commercialism than your bigger brother.

 

[Red Devil]

Quite simply if FC United want to climb the ladder and go into League Football they will have to increase the prices of those shirts or increase the gate in order to this.

United can't survive being one of the best Club's in europe let alone England without that sort of commercialism, neither could FC United if they were in the same boat.

If they don't want to do any of that and are happy playing lower or non-league football then that's fine. You can happily go about your business with much less commercialism than your bigger brother.

I agree 100% with your post. FC United was a good thought, but like every professional athlete and team, the goal is to get better. The only way to get better is to spend money on better talent. That means raising prices.

That isn't a slam aganist FC United, but it is the nature of the beast. Soon the novelty of FC United will lessen and then it will all come down to winning

 

[HKRed]

Quite simply if FC United want to climb the ladder and go into League Football they will have to increase the prices of those shirts or increase the gate in order to this.

United can't survive being one of the best Club's in europe let alone England without that sort of commercialism, neither could FC United if they were in the same boat.

If they don't want to do any of that and are happy playing lower or non-league football then that's fine. You can happily go about your business with much less commercialism than your bigger brother.

Read what was said previously, the club is non-profit, if it has anything left at the end of it's financial year, it is classed as a surplus and it must therefore go back into the clubs coffers for use.

Of course prices will go up at some point, but its about levying a sensible and reasonable charge for the product that you are getting and if there is no substantial sum leaving the club every year to line someones pockets, then that money will enable the club to keep the prices intact.

If you don't approve of that as a principle, then what can anyone do? The principle works for working mens clubs, the old building societies, etc. The members that the club serves are the beneficiaries, not the banks, lenders and investors of this world.

 

[HKRed]

I agree 100% with your post. FC United was a good thought, but like every professional athlete and team, the goal is to get better. The only way to get better is to spend money on better talent. That means raising prices.

That isn't a slam aganist FC United, but it is the nature of the beast. Soon the novelty of FC United will lessen and then it will all come down to winning

Lets see shall we.

 

[The Hairdryer]

Read what was said previously, the club is non-profit, if it has anything left at the end of it's financial year, it is classed as a surplus and it must therefore go back into the clubs coffers for use.

Of course prices will go up at some point, but its about levying a sensible and reasonable charge for the product that you are getting and if there is no substantial sum leaving the club every year to line someones pockets, then that money will enable the club to keep the prices intact.

If you don't approve of that as a principle, then what can anyone do? The principle works for working mens clubs, the old building societies, etc. The members that the club serves are the beneficiaries, not the banks, lenders and investors of this world.

Working Men's Clubs aren't perfomance driven. If and I say if FC United want to climb the ladder of success, get their own stadium etc then will not only have to increase ticket prices but will in all likely-hood have to borrow money from a lender as well.

Barcelona and Real Madrid work on the same principle as FCUM where their members are the owners of the Club. They depend heavily on merchandising and commercialism to be a competive team.

I'm not trying to slander FC, but if there is any intention to become a successful Club they will eventually have to give into the sort of thing. It's the way of the world and if you think otherwise you are living in fantasy land.

 

[Wibble]

Who mentioned controversial?

Confused, out of touch and ill informed spring to mind. The only controversial thing I can think of, is MUFC pay the dozy fecker a very large wage.

He is also right without being confused, out of touch or poorly informed. Profit isn't an issue. The fact is that any club that wants to compete at a higher level needs money to do so. Even if crowds increase the gate reciepts won't be enough to compete further up the ladder.

IF th club decide to live within their means then as some future point they will get to a divison of a standard that will prevent further progress without an injection of funds for a new ground or new players or increased wages for the good players that they have etc etc.

If these funds are not made available the club will stagnate and half a decade in the lower divisons without further progress will see supporters melt away and the club will be just another lower league non-entity.

I don't see why the FCUoM lot are taking what he said as an insult. It is simply stating the bleeding obvious.

 

[The Hairdryer]

Not only that wibs but if they want to be succesful they will have to bring in the best people they can at administration level. The best accountants, the best CEO, marketing etc. People who are experienced and have what it takes to drive the Club to the next level. It will be impossible to do this with volunteers or part timers evenually they're going to have to pay some dozey fecker a very large wage too.

 

[Wibble]

Agreed.

I like the idea of FCUoM even if the wholsale purchase of a fantasy version of the club combined with the evangelical "we are better than you" mentality is a tad irritating.

But to take offense at that article which was doing nothing other than stating the bleeding obvious is a bit mad.

 

[topper]

Agreed.

I like the idea of FCUoM even if the wholsale purchase of a fantasy version of the club combined with the evangelical "we are better than you" mentality is a tad irritating.

But to take offense at that article which was doing nothing other than stating the bleeding obvious is a bit mad.

Excellent Mr Wibble - keep on with your objective unbiased unprejudiced comment

 

[Life Of Smiley]

.

"FC UNITED NO DIFFERENT TO US"






YCMIU.

 

[The Hairdryer]

"FC UNITED NO DIFFERENT TO US"






YCMIU.

that's the title of the article, given to it by the editor of Red Issue. Maybe I'm blind but I can't see Draper being quoted using those actual words.

 

[Life Of Smiley]

that's the title of the article, given to it by the editor of Red Issue. Maybe I'm blind but I can't see Draper being quoted using those actual words.

Who cares, that's what he was basically 'trying' to say.

Oh, and I DO love this bit too;


“My appreciation of what’s happening with the new owners is that we are being trusted to do the same thing that we were known for doing. They are in this for the long term. I see no distinct change"

Doing the same thing? No distinct change?

That's the master plan fecked then, how on Earth can they repay that debt mountain by implementing 'no distinct change'

Like I said, you can't make it up.

 

[The Hairdryer]

Who cares, that's what he was basically 'trying' to say.

Oh, and I DO love this bit too;


“My appreciation of what’s happening with the new owners is that we are being trusted to do the same thing that we were known for doing. They are in this for the long term. I see no distinct change"

Doing the same thing? No distinct change?

That's the master plan fecked then, how on Earth can they repay that debt mountain by implementing 'no distinct change'

Like I said, you can't make it up.

feck me, firsty he's not trying to say that at all. He's saying that commercalism is part and past of the game and he's 100% correct. Get a fecking grip. You wouldn't tolerate this sort of shit from The Sun why do all of sudden buy into when Red Issue start doing it?

...and he's the fecking marketing manager for feck sake, he's not an accountant, he's not the fecking CEO. His job is to sell the United brand. He's saying that his job hasn't changed since the Glazer's took over. fair play to him, he's said nothing wrong you're being a right tit and reading too much into it.

 

[BezsMaracas]

who the feck are stalybridge united?? its celtic you dirty leeds cnut

 

[An Extremely Boring Man]

To be fair, everything that's coming out of OT from officials and staff, will be twisted and used against them by some FC United, Redissue, SU etc people - right or wrong

 

[fredthered]

feck me, firsty he's not trying to say that at all. He's saying that commercalism is part and past of the game and he's 100% correct. Get a fecking grip. You wouldn't tolerate this sort of shit from The Sun why do all of sudden buy into when Red Issue start doing it?

...and he's the fecking marketing manager for feck sake, he's not an accountant, he's not the fecking CEO. His job is to sell the United brand. He's saying that his job hasn't changed since the Glazer's took over. fair play to him, he's said nothing wrong you're being a right tit and reading too much into it.

"his job is to sell the United BRAND"

I think that sums it up.

United isnt a football team any more, its a fashion item, like a pair of trainers or a fashion house.

His job isnt to make Man United a better football team, his job isnt to ensure United compete with the top names in the game, his job is to milk as much out of the supporters as he possibly can. His wage is dependant on how much he can con the fans into paying, all the time convincing them that whatever they pay into the club will in some way help the players, which is a complete lie.

Nothing he sells to the fans helps the players, it helps the Glazers pay off a ludicrous debt. These fans who think buying a shirt in some way re-inforces Man Uniteds reputation as a competing force in football are living in dreamland.

As long as the bills get paid, Glazer couldnt care less if United win the Champioins League or get relegated down to the conference. His whole ethos is about profit and loss. The results on the pitch are only important in so far as it keeps his profit margins high, and sustains the income revenues.

If Glazer could pull in the same amount of money but reduce his costs by United being relegated, Glazer would be as happy as a pig in shit. All he wants to see is a positive figure on his bank balance.

Thats what makes Glazers United different to FC United. We know that if we want to go higher it will cost more, but at least we know that in return for that money we will get the benefit of a better team, trophies and greater exposure which will attract more supporters.

With Man United they dont care who turns up as long as they are prepared to pay in and help clear off the debt, and theres no promise that any of that money will assist the team in any way shape or form.

 

[ManUinOz]

"his job is to sell the United BRAND"

I think that sums it up.

United isnt a football team any more, its a fashion item, like a pair of trainers or a fashion house.

His job isnt to make Man United a better football team, his job isnt to ensure United compete with the top names in the game, his job is to milk as much out of the supporters as he possibly can. His wage is dependant on how much he can con the fans into paying, all the time convincing them that whatever they pay into the club will in some way help the players, which is a complete lie.

Nothing he sells to the fans helps the players, it helps the Glazers pay off a ludicrous debt. These fans who think buying a shirt in some way re-inforces Man Uniteds reputation as a competing force in football are living in dreamland.

As long as the bills get paid, Glazer couldnt care less if United win the Champioins League or get relegated down to the conference. His whole ethos is about profit and loss. The results on the pitch are only important in so far as it keeps his profit margins high, and sustains the income revenues.

If Glazer could pull in the same amount of money but reduce his costs by United being relegated, Glazer would be as happy as a pig in shit. All he wants to see is a positive figure on his bank balance.

Thats what makes Glazers United different to FC United. We know that if we want to go higher it will cost more, but at least we know that in return for that money we will get the benefit of a better team, trophies and greater exposure which will attract more supporters.

With Man United they dont care who turns up as long as they are prepared to pay in and help clear off the debt, and theres no promise that any of that money will assist the team in any way shape or form.

The feck off out of the Man United forum with all your FCUM posts and put them in other football where they belong. Your a poxy excuse of a United fan if you want to keep on slagging of United to all and sundry. Sure having Glazer in charge isn't good, sure you have a right to protest, just don't slag of my fecking team to make yourself feel better.

 

[devilish]

Im sorry Fred but if FC United wants to become successful then it will have to employ professionals to remain competitive. That will cost money, and money will have to be forked out by the fans. Tickets will get higher, and those who wont afford them will eventually not go and watch the team. Not to forget that unless you dont issue some Nazi regime rule, you cannot stop gloryhunters, muppets etc from attending FC United matches. In few words you will end up like Manchester United which are victims of their own success.

 

[The Hairdryer]

Im sorry Fred but if FC United wants to become successful then it will have to employ professionals to remain competitive. That will cost money, and money will have to be forked out by the fans. Tickets will get higher, and those who wont afford them will eventually not go and watch the team. Not to forget that unless you dont issue some Nazi regime rule, you cannot stop gloryhunters, muppets etc from attending FC United matches. In few words you will end up like Manchester United which are victims of their own success.

Spot on.

 

[devilish]

Spot on.

As usual

 

[devilish]

Its all about money. Today for a club to become and remain successful (there is a slight possibility that you would find the new SAF/Clough etc who would be able to build a team from scratch and would cost you peanuts. But there again if that happens how would you be able to keep the players AND manager from going to other clubs if you wont give them competitive wages?) it needs money. The average supporter will only be able to fork out a certian ammount of money and therefore FC United will have to rely on rich donators who, will help only if they have a certian 'control' over the club. Soon those rich donators will ask for more re assurances for their investment (clubs cost a hell of a lot of money) and will become owners or will push the club to become a PLC. By then who would be able to stop another Glazer from buying all the shares and become the main owner? Absolutely NO ONE.

I have nothing against FC United. In fact they are my second favorite club in England. Yet Success is a double edged sword. FC United will soon notice that.

 

[mickthered]

If you read what he says its all about money no mention of fans and their enjoyment

It’s only a question of scale. The most interesting thing (about FC United) is that they aren’t letting anybody in for free.

May be he should try thinking about what hes saying first

“Maybe we could win some people back.”

Thought they were queuing up at the doors to get in

 

[An Extremely Boring Man]

His job isnt to make Man United a better football team

Correct

His job is to market Manchester United, and enable those responsible for making Manchester United a better football, i.e. Sir Alex and his staff, with the resources to do so.