Morally dubious? He was a fecking mass murderer along with his good pal Che.
Fidel Castro dies aged 90
- Thread starter PvsNP
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He was a crazy mofo who survived 9 (?) attempts on his life by the CIA?
RIP.
Bulwark against Western Imperialism.
Bulwark against Western Imperialism.
About right.
CNN are going to milk this non stop.
For what?
To get more ratings. Its well known how they go over the top with their coverage at times.
Right, cause we've never overthrown an oppressive government before.
Overthrown your fair share of democratic ones too, while replacing them with oppressive regimes.
Didn't deny that we have. Although I'm interested to see how you'd describe what Fidel replaced Batista's government with...
RIP. One of the best revolutionaries of our time.
Clearly there were horrific elements to the revolution and subsequent regime, but I can't think of a US created regime that created universal education and healthcare and also US created regimes tend not to have 50+ year trade embargoes placed on them. It's pretty hard to argue that he exploited the people.
My point here is that Fidel should not be looked on as some white knight who rescued Cuba. He did terrible things just like Batista.
Let's also not forget while we speak of the US propping up dictators that Fidel was propped up by the Soviet Union.
RIP.
(my ol'avatar)
(my ol'avatar)
I don't know about universal healthcare, but the regime of Muhammad Reza Shah in Iran had some remarkable achievements in improving the lives of average Iranians - land redistribution, women's rights, literacy programs, etc. You will never see that regime being praised by the same people who seem to be revere Castro for his healthcare program, which seems to suggest most people don't judge these things on actual achievements but more in where said regime stood in the Cold War (and, in fairness, it could be argued that Iran might have achieved the same or more under Mossadegh, although we'll never know).
He had the whole rest of the world to trade with and several decades of Soviet money being dumped into the island.
Wiped out the indigenous population of the US and instigated the most vile & violent coups around the globe, US certainly knows a great deal about oppression since they've been responsible for it throughout this century
And we were created by overthrowing an oppressive government. I still doubt we need to learn anything about how to do that...
And btw... Seeing as you're a Barca fan, are you from Spain?
When it wasn't fashionable to support Mandela or Palestine, Castro was there
Actually the vast majority of the indigenous population was wiped out in the decades after the exploration of the "new world" began and was the result of Europeans bringing diseases over and some out right killing of the natives.
Not that the U.S. did any better but it is important to point out all the history.
No indeed. You learned so much from it you've continued to overthrow government, whether oppressive or not, around the world ever since. Including several attempts on Castro's life.
Castro also sent Cuban troops to fight Israel (just a small number) and to take part in the various wars that plagued Africa from the 60's to the 80's. Tried to help set up a number of regimes that would be loyal to his soviet masters. Seemed helping to try to build an empire through conquest was right up his alley.
Know your own history, you were created as a penal colony by Imperial England while systematically wiping out the indigenous population
And btw, I see you're from Carolina - I guess that likely explains your view of the world
Fought dictators & colonialism throughout Africa, Angola along with most of Africa are indebted to Castro from freeing them from white supremacy
There were many factors that saw Native Americans wiped out, I wasn't speaking of natural forces but those of warring humans who later tried to sell the world on the notion that they are the singular purveyors of freedom & democracy
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So are you from Spain or not?
Brought death all over Africa by trying to replace on colonial power with another or in other cases trying to over throw existing governments via direct intervention of foreign military. Not unlike oh so many governments during that time. He and his soviet masters gave not a wit about anything other than gaining access to African resources, the same as all the other powers who mucked about in Africa.
In fact not at all different from what so many here point accusing fingers at other countries for.
I remember one poster here did not even want to blame the chinese and soviets/russians for the North Korean governments since the end of WW2.
I can understand people being highly critical of the US and it's actions. Can't understand cheering on others nations for doing the same thing.
Why not ?
Because the US took him out.
Weird, innit.
Not only was he assassinated as a direct result of US/CIA but the Shah was an incredibly oppressive dictator - it boggles the mind that his legacy can/should be any different. The only ones singing a different tune over the Shah are the US or rich Iranians who fled during the revolution because they were the 1%ers of their era
And, of course, this was all done in the name of money/oil - the true motivator in foreign interventions & Imperialism. Castro was one of the very few that not only resisted but somehow thrived for decades - I don't think anyone else lasted that long. Doubtful Assange will make it that long
I'm siding with the Declaration of Independence on this one
Mossadegh wasn't assassinated.
And my post wasn't in praise of the Shah who, on balance, was a terrible leader of Iran (although thanks to almost 40 years of the Islamic Republic his legacy within Iran is regarded with a lot more ambivalence then you might think). I was just pointing out that almost all regimes of an oppressive or authoritarian nature, left or right, have some progressive achievements to point at - implementing them is a non-democratic means of legitimizing rule after all - but people will generally choose which to highlight based on where they stand on the left/right question.
Its a little hard to gauge the potential of the post-Batitsta government when the US slapped pretty crippling sanctions on Cuba the moment it had the audacity to overthrow its brutal dictator. Yet despite that handicap they still managed to cultivate a pretty stellar healthcare service for all Cubans as well as achieve literacy rate almost unrivalled across the globe. To the extent a child is more likely to die at birth in the US than in Cuba, and less likely to be given health coverage (economic status depending, which is not an issue in Cuba).
I'm not absolving Castro's Cuba of Human Rights offenses and other atrocities that may have occurred, but its objectively a better country for all Cubans than it was under the US-backed Batista regime (which btw had its own impressive torture portfolio).
isn't there some phrase about some dictator making the trains run on time.