Fred - £47m well spent

[Litch]

Said before, there are Utd players who ceilings are higher yet they fail to deliver based on this. Not saying these players haven't had good games but not comparable to their equivalents. DB yesterday for city has proven time and time again the difference when it matters like semi finals yet say Pogs hasn't. What's this got to do with Fred(?) - he is a small but important cog but not one that requires the amount of forensic view and criticism because he was never suppose to be the difference.....this would be like criticising Park, John O'Shea, Darren F et al. The difference is the Keane, Scholes, Becks, Giggs did live up to their ceiling so you would never need to criticise the supporting players....

 

[Kostov]

We don't have a player like that. Matic is too immobile, McTominay simply isn't good enough. Fred would be our best option unless we want to buy two new central midfielders, along with all the other positions that most fans want us to be looking at.

Buying a proper first team CDM should be a priority this month or in the summer. When we do that Fred should become a very good squad player, Scott or Donny would be my partner for the 3rd midfielder besides the CDM and Bruno.

 

[Sayros]

Buying a proper first team CDM should be a priority this month or in the summer. When we do that Fred should become a very good squad player, Scott or Donny would be my partner for the 3rd midfielder besides the CDM and Bruno.

Who's your dream signing for that position and who's the realistic option?

 

[Litch]

Who's your dream signing for that position and who's the realistic option?

Not sure there's a player out there that can fill our expectations. People also forget that the lack of midfield discipline means whoever is in the position, has to over a lot of ground vacated by whether it's Bruno, Matic, Scott, Pogs etc. There is an upgrade on Fred out there but Christ there's a lot of work and ground to cover whoever goes in there. People underestimate the ground he has to cover by those who just don't.....

 

[Bwuk]

He was ok, the ball to Rashford was great and he should of scored.

We need a #6 like Fernandinho, Fabinho etc. That isn’t Fred.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

That was such a sweet ball to Rashford. Gorgeous.

 

[Litch]

That was such a sweet ball to Rashford. Gorgeous.

Was a sweet ball to Rashford against Villa too.....

 

[Matt851]

Yes, we do need a player like that. But they will then play next to Fred, not instead of him. Unless you think one of our other options would be a better partner for that type of player?

The problem with that is fred doesnt seem to gave the positional disciplibe to

Was a sweet ball to Rashford against Villa too.....

He is capable of the odd great pasd but also often missplaces the simplest of passes and gives the ball away with heavy first touches

 

[MadDogg]

Buying a proper first team CDM should be a priority this month or in the summer. When we do that Fred should become a very good squad player, Scott or Donny would be my partner for the 3rd midfielder besides the CDM and Bruno.

Why Scott though? I understand VDB and I'd want to see that given a chance myself (and in the meantime I want to see Fred-VDB given a chance in easier games), but I just don't understand what possible reason there would be to play McTominay ahead of Fred. He's bigger and can score the odd goal. That's about it. Fred is better at pretty much every other aspect of being a midfielder. Significantly better at most of it.

Depending on what 'type' of defensive midfielder we signed would decide whether Fred or VDB should perhaps be given first opportunity at that role for me. But those two and the new guy that we hopefully sign should be considered our main three and rotate as needed. Obviously I'm basing that on VDB actually working out in central midfield (something we don't know yet) and Pogba leaving. McTominay and Matic can be squad players.

 

[MikeeMike]

Interesting, what is a "creative movement when on the ball"? Are we coming up with new ways to criticize Fred?

If you dont know what “creative movement when on the ball” is , how can you label it as a new way to criticize him?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If you dont know what “creative movement when on the ball” is , how can you label it as a new way to criticize him?

Because the poster criticised Fred for lack ’’creative movement when on the ball’’. Which I’m not sure what he’s referring to, dribbling? Step over? May be you can tell us.

 

[Borys]

If you dont know what “creative movement when on the ball” is , how can you label it as a new way to criticize him?

I'm pretty sure saying "player lacks X" is criticism, doesn't matter what "X" stands for.

I might even agree with that if I knew what is “creative movement when on the ball”, but never heard of it before so in my view, it's inventing new ways to criticize player he doesn't like.

 

[Kostov]

Who's your dream signing for that position and who's the realistic option?

My dream signing is probably Rice/Ndidi if we go for a midfield destroyer, Neves could be a different profile option but a good one imo. All of them are realistic options if we are to do our planning properly, yes all of West Ham, Leicester and Wolves are hard clubs to buy from, but look at Liverpool and how they got Jota without much fuss. And I am sure that we can buy an upgrade on Fred from abroad, there's mention of Zakaria.

 

[Litch]

The problem with that is fred doesnt seem to gave the positional disciplibe to

He is capable of the odd great pasd but also often missplaces the simplest of passes and gives the ball away with heavy first touches

It's funny because with every player, things become truism's and you almost look for it. His passing sometimes is misplaced but whose isn't? He first touch, sometimes gives the ball away, who doesn't? His pass completion is 90%.
He is what he is and not sure why there is the fixation on him. There are bigger issues that need resolving like at CB and for me the lack of chances being created....

 

[dal]

Which teams would pay £47 million for Fred?

Didn’t Liverpool pay more for Keita?

Liverpool do love a good engine, so I’d say quite a few teams, I thought he was terrific against city.

 

[Litch]

My dream signing is probably Rice/Ndidi if we go for a midfield destroyer, Neves could be a different profile option but a good one imo. All of them are realistic options if we are to do our planning properly, yes all of West Ham, Leicester and Wolves are hard clubs to buy from, but look at Liverpool and how they got Jota without much fuss. And I am sure that we can buy an upgrade on Fred from abroad, there's mention of Zakaria.

Being a Utd fan is like no other in this country and even transcends football. You can be in any country in the world and the shirt is instantly recognisable. People will either immediately love or hate you cause you are a Utd fan. Times that by a million when you become a Manchester Utd player, and that's the weight of the shirt and expectation that comes with playing here....ask Harry!!!! Yes Rice and Ndidi appear to be upgrades but trust me, we the forensic spotlight of fans and media hit them, it's a different game....

Remember Fred was ridiculed by the media, openly by Keane, Scholes and Gary. Never played by Jose and had to fight to get his place in Ole's team. People forget there was no Bruno, Pogs, Matic or Scott for months and Fred held that midfield together enabling us to even be in the argument for Europe at that time.

Clearly can be upgraded but who in this team can't......

 

[Ekeke]

Didn’t Liverpool pay more for Keita?

Liverpool do love a good engine, so I’d say quite a few teams, I thought he was terrific against city.

They obviously thought he was going to be more than a good engine. Keita had 8 goals and 7 assists the season before Liverpool signed him

Fred has scored 6 goals with 10 assists in his entire career so far. So they arent very similar at all.

Also Liverpool have better engines that also do more than that, for example Jordan Henderson and Thiago have played the passes with most progressive distance from midfield in the league this season (acurate forward passes up the pitch in distance).

So why would they then spend £47 million on someone who isnt as good? Sounds ridiculous. The only midfielder they signed this past summer was from the champions league winners, as if they'd be going for Fred instead

 

[Kostov]

Being a Utd fan is like no other in this country and even transcends football. You can be in any country in the world and the shirt is instantly recognisable. People will either immediately love or hate you cause you are a Utd fan. Times that by a million when you become a Manchester Utd player, and that's the weight of the shirt and expectation that comes with playing here....ask Harry!!!! Yes Rice and Ndidi appear to be upgrades but trust me, we the forensic spotlight of fans and media hit them, it's a different game....

Remember Fred was ridiculed by the media, openly by Keane, Scholes and Gary. Never played by Jose and had to fight to get his place in Ole's team. People forget there was no Bruno, Pogs, Matic or Scott for months and Fred held that midfield together enabling us to even be in the argument for Europe at that time.

Clearly can be upgraded but who in this team can't......

I agree that playing for United comes with much more pressure and expectations but come on, you make it seem like it's so damn hard to find a better CM that Fred. I appreciate his heart and work rate but he's not good enough to play as a pure CDM, absolute woeful in his attacking game to be an attacking B2B, yes he is very useful in certain types of games when his energy and pressing helps the team play on the brake, but we really need to have different type of CM, someone who can contribute more when on the ball, or more when we defend.

Just look at that KDB shot that hit the post, I've seen it just twice but I think Fred should have closed him much better for example, and a proper quality CDM would have done that imo.

 

[dal]

They obviously thought he was going to be more than a good engine. Keita had 8 goals and 7 assists the season before Liverpool signed him

Fred has scored 6 goals with 10 assists in his entire career so far. So they arent very similar at all.

Also Liverpool have better engines that also do more than that, for example Jordan Henderson and Thiago have played the passes with most progressive distance from midfield in the league this season (acurate forward passes up the pitch in distance).

So why would they then spend £47 million on someone who isnt as good? Sounds ridiculous. The only midfielder they signed this past summer was from the champions league winners, as if they'd be going for Fred instead

Fred has a brilliant engine and shows it every game, I feel he’s better than Kante.

Not every midfielder is judged on progressive passes that comes down to style and tactics.

Id rather have Fred then not and in terms of his style which is winning possession, pressing, simple passes and driving with the ball into space, I think he’s brilliant.

Worth it or not we knew what we were getting too and the fee is reasonable and assumed reasonable by the club.

He’s one of the best in the premiership at doing what he does hence why Pep wanted him.

 

[Ekeke]

Fred has a brilliant engine and shows it every game, I feel he’s better than Kante.

Not every midfielder is judged on progressive passes that comes down to style and tactics.

Id rather have Fred then not and in terms of his style which is winning possession, pressing, simple passes and driving with the ball into space, I think he’s brilliant.

Worth it or not we knew what we were getting too and the fee is reasonable and assumed reasonable by the club.

He’s one of the best in the premiership at doing what he does hence why Pep wanted him.

Depends what you want. Maybe you could argue Fred runs more or has more effort than Kante, but Kante is a better ball winner who joins the attack more and scores some goals. So overall its hard to come up with an argument why Fred would be better than Kante.

For like 1 specific thing, maybe? Overall no chance

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Depends what you want. Maybe you could argue Fred runs more or has more effort than Kante, but Kante is a better ball winner who joins the attack more and scores some goals. So overall its hard to come up with an argument why Fred would be better than Kante.

For like 1 specific thing, maybe? Overall no chance

Fred is a better progressive passer than Kante. It’s probably aspect that lot of people in here don’t give him some credit and people think Fred is just midfielder who only offers high energy and press. From my memory I counted minimum 4 passes this season that released Rashford a one on one chance with goalkeeper (Newcastle, Arsenal, Everton, Leicester). And that’s for Rashford one on one, I’m sure he has released some key passes for others.

 

[simplyared]

Don't agree we got value for money by buying Fred. I wouldn't value him as being worth what we gave for him. Checked out some midfielders clubs have bought since 2018 which was same year we bought Fred.
Current market value in brackets
Euros
Fred 59m (20m)
Maddison 25m (55m)
Höjbjerg 17m (30m)
Jota 28m (40m)

Well spent. It wouldn't appear so!

 

[GifLord]

Don't agree we got value for money by buying Fred. I wouldn't value him as being worth what we gave for him. Checked out some midfielders clubs have bought since 2018 which was same year we bought Fred.
Current market value in brackets
Euros
Fred 59m (20m)
Maddison 25m (55m)
Höjbjerg 17m (30m)
Jota 28m (40m)

Well spent. It wouldn't appear so!

I wouldn't take transfermarkt player values seriously

 

[RashyForPM]

Don't agree we got value for money by buying Fred. I wouldn't value him as being worth what we gave for him. Checked out some midfielders clubs have bought since 2018 which was same year we bought Fred.
Current market value in brackets
Euros
Fred 59m (20m)
Maddison 25m (55m)
Höjbjerg 17m (30m)
Jota 28m (40m)

Well spent. It wouldn't appear so!

I wouldn't take transfermarkt player values seriously

That, and if someone offered Ole £20m, he’d spend 10 minutes laughing his arse off before rejecting the bid. Also, where’d you get £59m from? Simon Stone himself said it was £47m. £59m really wouldn’t be well spent, but £47m is.

 

[simplyared]

That, and if someone offered Ole £20m, he’d spend 10 minutes laughing his arse off before rejecting the bid. Also, where’d you get £59m from? Simon Stone himself said it was £47m. £59m really wouldn’t be well spent, but £47m is.

59m euros!

 

[RashyForPM]

59m euros!

Ah I see. Still though, without comparing him with other players, his improvement into what he is today warrants the £47m spent on him. A dependable member of the side who is probably the 4th name on the team sheet in big games. Excellent midfielder.

 

[simplyared]

That, and if someone offered Ole £20m, he’d spend 10 minutes laughing his arse off before rejecting the bid. Also, where’d you get £59m from? Simon Stone himself said it was £47m. £59m really wouldn’t be well spent, but £47m is.

OK let's say Fred's worth is not known at this moment in time. He's not up for sale and no clubs as far as we know have made any bids for the player. If Fred was to be a good deal we'd have to get at least what we gave for him or even more. It would be interesting to hear what your value would be on the other 3 players I mentioned:
Maddison ?
Höjbjerg ?
Jota ?

 

[Kostov]

That, and if someone offered Ole £20m, he’d spend 10 minutes laughing his arse off before rejecting the bid. Also, where’d you get £59m from? Simon Stone himself said it was £47m. £59m really wouldn’t be well spent, but £47m is.

20m is as good as we would probably get for him in this current climate, Ole can laugh or cry about is as much as he wants

 

[RashyForPM]

OK let's say Fred's worth is not known at this moment in time. He's not up for sale and no clubs as far as we know have made any bids for the player. If Fred was to be a good deal we'd have to get at least what we gave for him or even more. It would be interesting to hear what your value would be on the other 3 players I mentioned:
Maddison ?
Höjbjerg ?
Jota ?

In the current market:

Fred - £45m
Maddison - £65m
Hojbjerg - £38m
Jota - £50m, skewed by this season’s performances.

Not just saying this because he’s technically a better player, but you can’t compare Maddison, an AM, with Fred, a CM/DM. Probably the biggest point of contention here is my value of Hojbjerg. That’s just personal preference, as even without my red-tinted glasses, I think Fred is better.

 

[RashyForPM]

20m is as good as we would probably get for him in this current climate, Ole can laugh or cry about is as much as he wants

It is, hence why the likes of Doherty and Hojbjerg only went for £15m when they would be £35m players in any other window. There’s a reason Fred isn’t for sale though. He’s one of our most important players.

 

[Kostov]

It is, hence why the likes of Doherty and Hojbjerg only went for £15m when they would be £35m players in any other window. There’s a reason Fred isn’t for sale though. He’s one of our most important players.

There's always a smart deal to be made on the market for not so rare quality player like Fred imo, 47m pounds was abysmal deal imo, as bad or worse then Maguire for 80m pounds if you ask me. He is important I agree and he contributes with his skill set, however I feel we need better, much better.

 

[simplyared]

In the current market:

Fred - £45m
Maddison - £65m
Hojbjerg - £38m
Jota - £50m, skewed by this season’s performances.

Not just saying this because he’s technically a better player, but you can’t compare Maddison, an AM, with Fred, a CM/DM. Probably the biggest point of contention here is my value of Hojbjerg. That’s just personal preference, as even without my red-tinted glasses, I think Fred is better.

Obviously putting values on players in this way is purely subjective. Albeit I would question your valuation of Hojberg in relation to Fred. Both play similar roles in their respective clubs which in my mind makes them comparable. If Spurs offered us Hojbjerg as a direct swap for Fred I'd accept that any day of the week. You would keep Fred and that's where we're miles apart!

 

[Jean claude van hire]

We have got another CM with his energy levels and he is one player that we really need to perform at Anfield. He was definitely one of our better players there last year and I think we will need him on his game to stifle Thiago.

 

[K Stand Knut]

There's always a smart deal to be made on the market for not so rare quality player like Fred imo, 47m pounds was abysmal deal imo, as bad or worse then Maguire for 80m pounds if you ask me. He is important I agree and he contributes with his skill set, however I feel we need better, much better.

There was demand for Fred when we bought him. That adds several million to the fee automatically.

We always over-pay because we are comparatively minted compared to other clubs.

we paid what we did because it was the cost at the time (player cost plus United ‘tax’ plus demand).

I’d say he’s £35m worth of player plus the additional that we always get lumbered with.

Is he worth that now?? Definitely but especially Hojberg is being rated as £38m.

Fred>Hojberg

 

[The Irish Connection]

Fred is brilliant.

People comparing him to Herrera are wrong. Herrera was one of the sideways gang. Fred is a better ball winner and passer.

What teams would sign him: City, who are desperate for a Fernandinho replacement. Chelsea, who need to replace Kante.
He’s a slightly better passer than Kante and a better ball winner than Jorginho.

If anything he reminds me of Carrick in how fans view him, a lot don’t see what he brings to the team.

Liverpool think Henderson is a god. They obviously overrate him but his engine, aggression and good progressive (not amazing) passing are so important to them in midfield. Fred is similar.

Not to mention the mountain he had to climb to get into the team. Love Fred.

 

[ali8karimi]

The agenda some got against this man is weird, he has been the most consistent player in the team after Bruno.
Always puts in a shift, positive minded in his passing, a pain in the arse for opposition midfielders.

Underrated because he plays for United. If the same player was playing for Pool or City he would be lauded as one of the best cdm in the prem.

As long someone can't put up Bruno's kind of stats (G+A every game) he can't be good.
Even if it's a CDM or a CB (Maguire).

 

[RashyForPM]

Obviously putting values on players in this way is purely subjective. Albeit I would question your valuation of Hojberg in relation to Fred. Both play similar roles in their respective clubs which in my mind makes them comparable. If Spurs offered us Hojbjerg as a direct swap for Fred I'd accept that any day of the week. You would keep Fred and that's where we're miles apart!

Just feel that this Hojbjerg thing is a matter of grass in greener on the other side. I’ve watched all Spurs’ league games bar Burnley and Brighton this season, and Hojbjerg buzzes around energetically, intercepts and tackles. I see Fred do that all the time, and in my view he makes progressive passes far more often.

 

[simplyared]

Just feel that this Hojbjerg thing is a matter of grass in greener on the other side. I’ve watched all Spurs’ league games bar Burnley and Brighton this season, and Hojbjerg buzzes around energetically, intercepts and tackles. I see Fred do that all the time, and in my view he makes progressive passes far more often.

Can't agree. I would feel a lot more at ease with Hojbjerg. Fred as energetic as he is, makes me nervous most of the time. Some of his passing is reckless and puts our defence under pressure. There's always a risk he'll lose the ball or give unecessary free kicks away in dangerous positions. In Hojbjerg you don't have that risk. He isn't easily knocked off the ball, times his tackles well, has a composure about him and can make a clever pass in tight situations. Reads the game very well and his positioning spot on. Must be the bargain from the summer window!

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Herrera was one of the sideways gang. Fred is a better ball winner and passer.

I will genuinely never understand this.

I can go back and list at least half a dozen instances off the top of my head of Herrera creating goals with lovely passes in his time at United. And they all came in massive games (winners in a cup final and a semi-final, opening goals against Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal and Liverpool, comeback-sparking goal against City), which makes it even weirder that this keeps coming up. You'd think people had better memories.

Fred's got nothing on him as a passer.

 

[The Irish Connection]

I will genuinely never understand this.

I can go back and list at least half a dozen instances off the top of my head of Herrera creating goals with lovely passes in his time at United. And they all came in massive games (winners in a cup final and a semi-final, opening goals against Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal and Liverpool, comeback-sparking goal against City), which makes it even weirder that this keeps coming up. You'd think people had better memories.

Fred's got nothing on him as a passer.

Nonsense. Watching Herrera in games he was so basic. For psg he’s a bench player. When we played them he was constantly passing back or sideways. Fred regularly plays good whipped balls out to the wings and through the lines.
Mctominay is better than Herrera, it’s why he was sold, and yet, most people here would say that Fred is better than Mctominay.
Don’t get me wrong, I liked Herrera, very passionate and he did have the knack for the odd good goal but he added very little else.