Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Berbaclass]

Pogba is supposed to be at 290k and De Jong at 350k. That's like 20% more which is a big difference, also if I'm not mistaken Barcelona deals don't include image rights which isn't the case for United.

It's not that much more. We were willing to give Pogba 400k

 

[JPRouve]

It's not that much more. We were willing to give Pogba 400k

It is that much more, not that I find it problematic but it's not Pogba like wage, it's the tier above.

 

[Cassidy]

It is that much more, not that I find it problematic but it's not Pogba like wage, it's the tier above.

DDG type wage? Ronaldo type wage?
The wage is an issue though, I think he needs to come down to Pogba tier for it to work

 

[izec]

DDG type wage? Ronaldo type wage?
The wage is an issue though, I think he needs to come down to Pogba tier for it to work

The bigger issue is more his motivation and if he wants to come. The financials should be fine, as he would probably be our key transfer this summer for our manager.

 

[JPRouve]

DDG type wage? Ronaldo type wage?
The wage is an issue though, I think he needs to come down to Pogba tier for it to work

While I personally think that he should be closer to Pogba than higher tiers, I don't know if it's an actual issue. My opinion is entirely based on being stingy.

 

[Cassidy]

The bigger issue is more his motivation and if he wants to come. The financials should be fine, as he would probably be our key transfer this summer for our manager.

Everything I have read tells me he is not completely happy in Barca.
His agency have been sniffing around, and even his Dad came out and said they were speaking to clubs.
He is not playing in his preferred roll, and he is not completely happy at Barca, often being subbed or benched.

Saying that maybe he wants to stick it out for another season and see how it goes, but I think its clear he is not completely happy there.

 

[SAFMUTD]

No it will be bringing in a player who the manager knows and trusts in a key position. Its nothing to do with his name and everything to do with who Ten Hag wants.
Remember we are about to implement a completely new system of play

I'm not convinced it will happen but this transfer, in my opinion is really key if we want Ten Hag to get up and running as quick as possible, he would have 2 players in the heart of the midfield who know already exactly what he wants.

Surely he's not the only option out there? I mean 350K are huge wages. I don't think De Jong is worth them.

I'm all in for supporting Ten Hag, I just don't think that bringing players with those kind of wages is the smartest idea. Specially during a rebuild process, we need at least 6-7 new players in the starting XI, bringing De Jong with that kind of wages would naturally drive up the squads wages demands.

I hate to make comparisons but look at Liverpool, how they have built their squad with none of their players on demential wages. I mean their best paid players are VVD on 220K and Thiago and Salah on 200k.

 

[Cassidy]

Surely he's not the only option out there? I mean 350K are huge wages. I don't think De Jong is worth them.

I'm all in for supporting Ten Hag, I just don't think that bringing players with those kind of wages is the smartest idea. Specially during a rebuild process, we need at least 6-7 new players in the starting XI, bringing De Jong with that kind of wages would naturally bring other player's wages demands.

I hate to make comparisons but look at Liverpool, how they have built their squad with none of their players on demential wages. I mean their best paid players are VVD on 220K and Thiago and Salah on 200k.

There may be another player out there lets see, but if he can replicate his form under Ten Hag for Ajax and his form for country then he is completely worth it.
Ajax certainly not the same team (even though they are good) without him

 

[JPRouve]

Everything I have read tells me he is not completely happy in Barca.
His agency have been sniffing around, and even his Dad came out and said they were speaking to clubs.
He is not playing in his preferred roll, and he is not completely happy at Barca.

Saying that maybe he wants to stick it out for another season and see how it goes, but I think its clear he is not completely happy there.

I have seen the same thing for years. A while ago there was an article about Arthur, Dembélé and De Jong explaining that they were isolated and that there experience at Barcelona wasn't great from a personal standpoint. It was about the lack of leadership in the locker room and in the staff.

 

[mctrials23]

It would cost a stupid amount of money to buy and then pay for him and we won't be fixed by a single signing. It just makes no sense right now. You don't buy an expensive sports car when you living in a falling down terrace house worth feck all.

You can talk about these sort of signings when you have a good squad to put them in. Perhaps in a few years. We currently need to buy more based on attitude and application than out and out quality. As with all things, returns diminish after a certain amount and we could probably get someone 80-90% as good for 40% of the cost. We would benefit far more from 3 good players than one outstanding one.

 

[Cassidy]

It would cost a stupid amount of money to buy and then pay for him and we won't be fixed by a single signing. It just makes no sense right now. You don't buy an expensive sports car when you living in a falling down terrace house worth feck all.

You can talk about these sort of signings when you have a good squad to put them in. Perhaps in a few years. We currently need to buy more based on attitude and application than out and out quality. As with all things, returns diminish after a certain amount and we could probably get someone 80-90% as good for 40% of the cost. We would benefit far more from 3 good players than one outstanding one.

70m euros is not a stupid amount of money

 

[sullydnl]

Not that it means much but if you're ETH arriving at the club and trying to instil your style of play, starting your first season with 2/3rds of the midfield you already brought to a CL semi-final at Ajax wouldn't be a bad thing. Given our less than stellar track record with big money signings, there's a lot to be said for already knowing that they completely fit the manager's style of play before you buy them.

I get and share the caution around big money signings this summer but if you're going to splash out for anyone then I don't see anyone else who justifies it as much as FDJ given the transition we're facing. And as said above, the price actually being mentioned at least isn't all that much anyway, it'd be more a question of where he fits into our wage structure.

 

[Banat]

Been lurking on Barca forum for some time, they are not very keen on keeping him and want him sold asap. I don't watch Barca regularly outside of Cl and El Clasico so no idea what to make of it.
Isn't he on some crazy wages there as well?

 

[Coops73]

This is never going to happen. I don’t understand why this is being talked about.

 

[JPRouve]

It would cost a stupid amount of money to buy and then pay for him and we won't be fixed by a single signing. It just makes no sense right now. You don't buy an expensive sports car when you living in a falling down terrace house worth feck all.

You can talk about these sort of signings when you have a good squad to put them in. Perhaps in a few years. We currently need to buy more based on attitude and application than out and out quality. As with all things, returns diminish after a certain amount and we could probably get someone 80-90% as good for 40% of the cost. We would benefit far more from 3 good players than one outstanding one.

But De Jong isn't a sports car, in theory he is part of your foundations.

 

[SAFMUTD]

There may be another player out there lets see, but if he can replicate his form under Ten Hag for Ajax and his form for country then he is completely worth it.
Ajax certainly not the same team (even though they are good) without him

It's a matter of opinion I guess, but you'll be making him a top 5 best paid player in the league hoping for him to go back to his 2019 form.

De Bruyne is on similar wages for comparison. That's the kind of level you expect from a player on those wages, De Jong isn't near that.

 

[Cassidy]

It's a matter of opinion I guess, but you'll be making him a top 5 best paid player in the league hoping for him to go back to his 2019 form.

De Bruyne is on similar wages for comparison. That's the kind of level you expect from a player on those wages, De Jong isn't near that.

In his position he really is that actually.

 

[SATA]

Well if we can sign Varane, i feel we can certainly sign De Jong especially when we now have Ten Hag as our new manager who know each other very well. Give Pogba’s wages to him and we’ll be grand. That’ll entice him to Manchester

 

[SAFMUTD]

In his position he really is that actually.

I'd say Kroos, Modric, Thiago are easily above De Jong. Can you name three players above De Bruyne?

I think you are overating him, I know many Barca fans and they're not really sold on him. There's a reason why Barca would be happy to ship him for 70M.

 

[Cassidy]

I'd say Kroos, Modric, Thiago are easily above De Jong. Can you name three players above De Bruyne?

I think you are overating him, I know many Barca fans and they're not really sold on him. There's a reason why Barca would be happy to ship him for 70M.

Yes because he isn't being used correctly, it's been widely discussed.

 

[Abraxas]

I'd say Kroos, Modric, Thiago are easily above De Jong. Can you name three players above De Bruyne?

I think you are overating him, I know many Barca fans and they're not really sold on him. There's a reason why Barca would be happy to ship him for 70M.

To be fair I'm not sure those 3 being above him puts much of a dent in the idea of signing him. They're all old boys whereas this guy has time on his side.

He's clearly not operating at the level he is capable of though otherwise you simply don't sell him as Barcelona. We'd be taking on that risk of getting more out of him. Which isn't something we've generally excelled at with players, but..I guess it's a new start.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

A lot of things stated after the fact. He obviously did not have a good time here and didn't get on with the manager.
However he had a few choices of clubs to join when he left Madrid and he chose United, he could have chosen PSG.

He did choose PSG at least in his head. Iirc they couldn't sign him because of FFP but by then Di Maria had already burnt his bridges with Madrid so had to leave and we were the only mugs prepared to pay what Madrid wanted.

 

[therealtboy]

This is never going to happen. I don’t understand why this is being talked about.

You are saying this because you have this over hyped view on the player and think he is untouchable at Barca. The fans don't rate him above Nico, Gavi and Pedri and with a couple of other talented CMs coming through they would not mind selling him. The management in turn could see getting 60m and his massive wages off the books as a win and allow then strengthen other areas of their squad and offer players like Araujo better contracts.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Yes because he isn't being used correctly, it's been widely discussed.

So another Pogba?

 

[Cassidy]

So another Pogba?

We're going around in circles. Pogba was bought by a manager who didn't know how to use him, and to play a role in which he didn't excel. He was never a Gerrard or Lampard anywhere before we signed him.
De Jong was bought by Barca and then played in a different position.
United if they bought De Jong would be buying him for a manager who knows him inside out and to play him in a position he excels in. (And btw is exactly the type of player we are screeming out for along with a destroyer)

 

[JPRouve]

We're going around in circles. Pogba was bought by a manager who didn't know how to use him, and to play a role in which he didn't excel. He was never a Gerrard or Lampard anywhere before we signed him.
De Jong was bought by Barca and then played in a different position.
United if they bought De Jong would be buying him for a manager who knows him inside out and to play him in a position he excels in. (And btw is exactly the type of player we are screeming out for along with a destroyer)

And neither of these players excelled as CMs in a double pivot without extremely good DMs next to them.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We're going around in circles. Pogba was bought by a manager who didn't know how to use him, and to play a role in which he didn't excel. He was never a Gerrard or Lampard anywhere before we signed him.
De Jong was bought by Barca and then played in a different position.
United if they bought De Jong would be buying him for a manager who knows him inside out and to play him in a position he excels in.

I mentioned Pogba because you said he is a top player, like De Bruyne is his position, but not used properly. That sounds like the Pogba excuses to me.

Truth is he hasn't lived up to the expectation, wether it's because he hasn't been used properly or not is another issue, my point is his wages are a big concern and we shouldn't be signing him on our current state.

I get Ten Hag's connection but it would be the same if we were talking about De Ligt, another player who was great with Ajax, would cost a huge fee, under big wages and hasn't lived up to the expectation.

 

[bond19821982]

I dont know why this hate . FDJ is a brilliant player when used correctly. Yes, he never showed his Ajax form at Barca but sometimes you just need a change to recapture your old form. We can offer everything what he wants now. A fees, salary and his old manager who can revive him.

Is he worth 60-70m and a wages of 350k ? Probably not. But any semi decent midfielder is going to cost you that much. If Rice is at 100 and Philips is at 60, FDJ is easily worth that money. Wages, I agree but you have to pay because we can't offer CL. Good thing is , we are saving lot of wages this summer.

It's a no Brainer .

 

[Thoms]

Nike pays half of Frenkie's wages.

 

[JPRouve]

I mentioned Pogba because you said he is a top player, like De Bruyne is his position, but not used properly. That sounds like the Pogba excuses to me.

Truth is he hasn't lived up to the expectation, wether it's because he hasn't been used properly or not is another issue, my point is his wages are a big concern and we shouldn't be signing him on our current state.

I get Ten Hag's connection but it would be the same if we were talking about De Ligt, another player who was great with Ajax, would cost a huge fee, under big wages and hasn't lived up to the expectation.

An explanation isn't an excuse. De Jong ideal role is the one that Busquets occupies, he has been asked to play differently and in a more adventurous way which isn't natural for him. If you want an example it's bit like when Real Madrid tried to use Kroos and Modric as a duo in 4231, both struggled.

 

[mctrials23]

But De Jong isn't a sports car, in theory he is part of your foundations.

I would agree if we didn't need another couple of players for that foundation. The salary and tranfer fee would eat up 50% or so of our transfer budget and he wouldn't be the foundation he would just be part of it. I don't think you can justify that when there is so much foundational work to be done right now.

 

[mctrials23]

70m euros is not a stupid amount of money

I don't think he would cost that. I think you would be looking at more like 90m+

70m I might consider it. 90m+ I don't think thats the best use of the money. Its all theoretical lets be honest. When was the last time a suggested transfer fee was actually accurate for United?

 

[Cassidy]

I don't think he would cost that. I think you would be looking at more like 90m+

70m I might consider it. 90m+ I don't think thats the best use of the money. Its all theoretical lets be honest. When was the last time a suggested transfer fee was actually accurate for United?

I'm only going on whats been quoted

 

[Cassidy]

I would agree if we didn't need another couple of players for that foundation. The salary and tranfer fee would eat up 50% or so of our transfer budget and he wouldn't be the foundation he would just be part of it. I don't think you can justify that when there is so much foundational work to be done right now.

De Jong + Kamara on a free. Done.

 

[Cassidy]

I mentioned Pogba because you said he is a top player, like De Bruyne is his position, but not used properly. That sounds like the Pogba excuses to me.

Truth is he hasn't lived up to the expectation, wether it's because he hasn't been used properly or not is another issue, my point is his wages are a big concern and we shouldn't be signing him on our current state.

I get Ten Hag's connection but it would be the same if we were talking about De Ligt, another player who was great with Ajax, would cost a huge fee, under big wages and hasn't lived up to the expectation.

Then we can agree to disagree

 

[SAFMUTD]

An explanation isn't an excuse. De Jong ideal role is the one that Busquets occupies, he has been asked to play differently and in a more adventurous way which isn't natural for him. If you want an example it's bit like when Real Madrid tried to use Kroos and Modric as a duo in 4231, both struggled.

It may be, but after 3 years I would have thought that Barca would find a way to fit him if he's earning that much. I mean Busquets isn't anywhere near his prime so you'd expect a 24-25 year old De Jong could easily ship him out if that was the case.

If we were talking about a 150-200K player I wouldn't mind us betting on him, specially with his Ten Hag's connection.

But we are talking about 350K, I don't think people realize how much that is. He'd be above everyone in the league besides Cristiano, KDB and De Gea. It's too risky IMO, you just don't pay that much for a player that isn't absolute world class and on his prime.

 

[Cassidy]

It may be, but after 3 years I would have thought that Barca would find a way to fit him if he's earning that much. I mean Busquets isn't anywhere near his prime so you'd expect a 24-25 year old De Jong could easily ship him out if that was the case.

If we were talking about a 150-200K player I wouldn't mind us betting on him, specially with his Ten Hag's connection.

But we are talking about 350K, I don't think people realize how much that is. He'd be above everyone in the league besides Cristiano, KDB and De Gea. It's too risky IMO, you just don't pay that much for a player that isn't absolute world class and on his prime.

But it isn't, because they want to play Busquets in that position.
Do you remember how people talked about Benzema when he had to play second fiddle to Ronaldo?

 

[Terranova]

i don't see why the wages would be a problem is the transfer fee is "low", if the rumours are to be believed.

 

[SAFMUTD]

But it isn't, because they want to play Busquets in that position.
Do you remember how people talked about Benzema when he had to play second fiddle to Ronaldo?

So 3 different managers over the past 3 seasons at Barca and they all wanted to play Busquets in that position, all three managers struggling but not one realized that De Jong was better?

Maybe he's just not so great, it happens. Specially with that Ajax generation, none of them has been able to live up to the expectations. Including De Ligt, Van de Beek, Ziyech and also De Jong.

 

[JPRouve]

It may be, but after 3 years I would have thought that Barca would find a way to fit him if he's earning that much. I mean Busquets isn't anywhere near his prime so you'd expect a 24-25 year old De Jong could easily ship him out if that was the case.

If we were talking about a 150-200K player I wouldn't mind us betting on him, specially with his Ten Hag's connection.

But we are talking about 350K, I don't think people realize how much that is. He'd be above everyone in the league besides Cristiano, KDB and De Gea. It's too risky IMO, you just don't pay that much for a player that isn't absolute world class and on his prime.

You can think whatever you want but it isn't a substitute for what actually happened. Busquets is immovable and Barcelona haven't really made room for De Jong in his ideal role.