Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[TSop]

Basically

He doesn't really want to join, he may but his heart isn't in it.
Barca can pay his wages but they don't want to.
He is a good player but earns great players wages
Barca are happy for him to go because he isn't that great.
United should walk away from this disaster

 

[Massive Spanner]

Why would FDJ want to stay at Barca when they've made it clear they want him to leave? It doesn't make any sense.

Dolla dolla bills.

 

[mazhar13]

Only negative cause you want the deal to happen so badly and can't discuss it rationally.

Here's a rational approach.

This article is from Luckhurst's opinion piece:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Every time Luckhurst writes an opinion piece, he goes in with a certain agenda and then portrays the appropriate information to fulfill it. In this case, he wants to satisfy you and other people who are getting tired of this saga. As a result, he's going to make United look bad, and he does that in a somewhat cheap manner by trying to draw parallels to Moyes's Fabregas chase along with alluding to how close we are to starting the PL season. The info from your first Tweet isn't anything new, either; his sources are people who are close to Barcelona's players, who would have already relayed this info to the Barcelona-connected journalists months ago. It's the same with the second Tweet, hence why Luckhurst used the word "believed" instead of alluding to "sources".

In the end, there's no new development or revelation in this opinion piece. It's simply there to satisfy the negative United fans on top of the opposition ones.

 

[Brownie85]

Its quite funny, a player apparently wants to join, given these so called assurances to the manager, which none of actually know about, its all made up btw, compare to what we know from his agent and numerous sources that he wants to stay.

Why would a player give assurances that he will join and then go on pre season tour? Why would Manutd agree a fee and nothing happen for weeks?

Its been 6 weeks since the window opened and the stance hasn't changed from anyone reporting about FDJ, he wants to stay, not one journalist has said he wants to join. I think that is telling.

Why wouldn't he go on tour? He doesn't want to kick up a fuss and he's contracted to Barca?? If they say go on tour, he goes on tour.

Why don't people get that? He's still contracted to Barcelona and they can tell him what to do until the moment he's no longer under contract to them. Makes no difference him going on tour or not

 

[peridigm]

I'm starting to feel like this may be the case. We're betting on the fact that he would rather join us than stay at a club that have treated him like crap and are so desperate to kick him out. And the choice for him isn't as straightforward as most of us thought it would be.

Also possible we'll eventually just get desperate and offer to up our fee to cover more of his deferred wages.

I'm basing this opinion on the reports that he does't want to come or is mearly holding out for wages Barca need to pay to make him happy but from a PR perspective, it would have made sense to do this weeks ago if we're willing to do it at all. That would show good will to FDJ that ETH really wants him and would make Barca look even more ridiculous.

 

[Keefy18]

I'm starting to feel like this may be the case. We're betting on the fact that he would rather join us than stay at a club that have treated him like crap and are so desperate to kick him out. And the choice for him isn't as straightforward as most of us thought it would be.

Also possible we'll eventually just get desperate and offer to up our fee to cover more of his deferred wages.

Exactly.

Not one damned thing about this transfer says its positive at all other than ETH and "assurances".

Imagine he doesnt leave after they told him they dont want him i mean how do you even look your team mates in the eye they all know your as good as dead in terms of what the club think of you and your worth to them and the team, also Busquets at the bottom and Gavi and Pedri will he even get adequate game time if he stays i'm of the thinking likely not

That's patently untrue.

The only reason they are pushing him out is due to financial reasons. It's not like they think he is a poor player or not good enough for the club. Their hands are tied, that's it.

This is what ETH is banking the transfer on. Not these ridiculous "assurances" folks are bleeting on about.

We'll get a player not fully committed to my mind anyway.

First chance he has to jump ship again to the continent (Spain, Germany, Italy) he likely will.

 

[Random Task]

Dolla dolla bills.

He'd earn larger weekly salary playing for United, in addition to a more secure future.

I think he's refusing to leave until Barca pay what they owe him, which is fair enough if true.

 

[Massive Spanner]

He'd earn larger weekly salary playing for United, in addition to a more secure future.

I think he's refusing to leave until Barca pay what they owe him, which is fair enough if true.

That was my point.

 

[AlexUTD]

That’s a bit rapey

Was meant as a funny muppet meme. I can delete if it comes off as that.

 

[RkkMan]

Here's a rational approach.

This article is from Luckhurst's opinion piece:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Every time Luckhurst writes an opinion piece, he goes in with a certain agenda and then portrays the appropriate information to fulfill it. In this case, he wants to satisfy you and other people who are getting tired of this saga. As a result, he's going to make United look bad, and he does that in a somewhat cheap manner by trying to draw parallels to Moyes's Fabregas chase along with alluding to how close we are to starting the PL season. The info from your first Tweet isn't anything new, either; his sources are people who are close to Barcelona's players, who would have already relayed this info to the Barcelona-connected journalists months ago. It's the same with the second Tweet, hence why Luckhurst used the word "believed" instead of alluding to "sources".

In the end, there's no new development or revelation in this opinion piece. It's simply there to satisfy the negative United fans on top of the opposition ones.

From the man himself who KNOWS the tier list/journalism method of writers.
@Keefy18
@romufc

 

[Random Task]

That was my point.

Oh, fair enough then.

 

[sglowrider]

Sorry for being thick but who/what is 'DM'

Danny Murphy

 

[Berbaclass]

Was meant as a funny muppet meme. I can delete if it comes off as that.

 

[House Mkhitaryan]

Barca: "Frenkie, you are not going to start, we don't want you and can't afford to pay you. Find a new club and we will sell you. When you move, we also will not be paying you the money you deferred."

Frenkie: "I want to stay at Barca."


It's so obvious to me that he is just digging in and trying to force Barca to pay him what he feels he is rightfully owed. He did the club a huge favor by re-structuring his deal. Now that it has come time for him to get paid the deferred money, Barca want to ship him out and void his contract as he signs with a new team. He's having none of it. Keep the faith, fellow muppets. This deal is still on 100%. He wants the move, MUFC want the move and Barca want the move. Frenkie is just not going to let Barca weasel out of paying him what he is owed.

 

[Anustart89]

Direct message. Same as a PM.

Well what’s a PM then?

 

[Berbaclass]

From the man himself who KNOWS the tier list/journalism method of writers.
@Keefy18
@romufc

Logic dissolves on contact with air for Keefy

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

This feels like our first attempt at getting Sancho when Dortmund was posting pics of Sancho in training, claiming him as theirs, Dortmund CEO was saying they wouldn't sell Sancho etc etc while the posters on here and man utd fans on twitter kept performing mental gymnastics to tell everyone else how the transfer was still going to happen.

 

[marcus agrippa]

Even in June when we were openly negotiating a transfer, still the same sentiments.

https://www.90min.com/posts/frenkie...n-utd-interest-but-insists-happy-at-barcelona

It's been the same message before and during.

If Barca manage somehow to force him out, we are investing heavily in a player who won't be focused and dedicated to the club and I'm absolutely convinced of it.

Good for you. I am, however, convinced by the manager, and his desire to make FdJ the centrepiece of his team.

 

[Withnail]

Well what’s a PM then?

Private Message... Different platforms call them different things.

 

[devilo]

Was meant as a funny muppet meme. I can delete if it comes off as that.

I don't think it was helped by the ewok's sexually aggressive facial expression

 

[sglowrider]

Well what’s a PM then?

Paul Mitchell

 

[Cypriot]

I know the main issue is clearly the deferred wage issue but as much as I hope there's nothing to it, there's too much talk of him plain and simply not wanting to come to United.

Unless it's a hardcore stance of 'Feck it I'm staying, I'm not arsed'.

 

[Anustart89]

Paul Mitchell

Ahh I thought it was Boris Johnson (previously). Cheers mate!

 

[Lemoor]

Trying to show folks that both sides (UK and Spain) are saying the same damn thing, which I've believed for weeks.

You've also been claiming that de Jong will accept the paycut, because Dembele did, despite it being one thing that not one journalist suggested will happen.

We are persisting with a transfer on a player who doesn't want to leave. If it does happen with Barca somehow managing to kick him out, were just signing a player who see's us as inferior... second best if you will, as his preference is to stay put.

Who wants players with that mentality?

Most clubs. Believe it or not, but there can be only one first choice club for every player by definition. Yet somehow hundreds of clubs conclude transfers every single transfer window. There is this thing called professionalism that some players display.

 

[DSG]

So, does it all come down to whether Frenkie is willing to pull a Bale or take the financial hit and come to United?

It’s quite simple, really.

1. Barca need Frenkie to leave so they can register new players and meet the LaLiga salary cap requirements
2. Barca owe Frenkie back wages and are refusing to pay them
3. If Frenkie says he wants to go to United, he loses his leverage in the wages battle, so he’s saying he wants to stay
4. Thereby forcing Barca to either pay the deferred wages, or run the risk of not being able to register new signings Kessie, Raphinha, Lewandowski, Christiansen, etc.
5. United & Barca have agreed to terms; FDJ and United have agreed to terms

Barca will eventually capitulate as they run the risk of undoing some of the signings they have made if FDJ stays. Also, they’ll have an unhappy player. Barca treats their players like shit, they are world class crybabies (remember the Neymar release clause whining) and they will do anything to destabilize their rivals.

It’s a giant game of chicken that Barca will eventually lose.

 

[Donut]

We should sign Tielemans before someone else does, then we should see what happens with FDJ. We could really do with both.

 

[Cypriot]

It’s quite simple, really.

1. Barca need Frenkie to leave so they can register new players and meet the LaLiga salary cap requirements
2. Barca owe Frenkie back wages and are refusing to pay them
3. If Frenkie says he wants to go to United, he loses his leverage in the wages battle, so he’s saying he wants to stay
4. Thereby forcing Barca to either pay the deferred wages, or run the risk of not being able to register new signings Kessie, Raphinha, Lewandowski, Christiansen, etc.
5. United & Barca have agreed to terms; FDJ and United have agreed to terms

Barca will eventually capitulate as they run the risk of undoing some of the signings they have made if FDJ stays. Also, they’ll have an unhappy player. Barca treats their players like shit, they are world class crybabies (remember the Neymar release clause whining) and they will do anything to destabilize their rivals.

It’s a giant game of chicken that Barca will eventually lose.

Most sources are reporting the opposite aren't they?

 

[Keefy18]

No I don't want it to happen so badly, but I'm also a bit fed up of people constantly ramming the negatives down my throat as if they're absolute fact and that some people seem to think they know everything that's going on (EtH has no assurances, Wages aren't the issue, He just doesn't want to come, We're wasting time chasing a dead deal) all posted without proof but still.

If it happens, great, if it doesn't it doesn't. I don't really mind. I have my belief that it'll happen but it doesn't mean I'm desperate

As per the comment right below this, the evidence supporting the transfer is quite weak in comparison to the evidence against it.

We all know Barca ideally want rid due to his year on year increasing wage (Hence sale agreed with us), aside from that no doubt they think he's a quality player and the manager from all reports wants to keep him.

The player has said relentlessly he wants to stay - This is mocked at or denied stating he can't verbally say anything, personally I think that is utter rubbish. The written contract is binding, spoken sentiments can be construed different ways. Pogba talked up leaving in various ways, his contract stood.

The only thing supporting the fact it might happen is a prior relationship with ETH and supposed assurances which not one actual quote has been given by any reporter anywhere in Europe.

Its quite funny, a player apparently wants to join, given these so called assurances to the manager, which none of actually know about, its all made up btw, compare to what we know from his agent and numerous sources that he wants to stay.

Why would a player give assurances that he will join and then go on pre season tour? Why would Manutd agree a fee and nothing happen for weeks?

Its been 6 weeks since the window opened and the stance hasn't changed from anyone reporting about FDJ, he wants to stay, not one journalist has said he wants to join. I think that is telling.

Wouldn't read too much into the tour thing but yes it looks like life is just going on as usual for Barca and FDJ doesn't it? But folks are creating stories about daily phone calls and assurances and FDJ just waiting for the contract issue to be resolved.

If what they say is all true, I still don't think we're getting a committed player due to the fact he's being forced out the door (ADM). I reckon he'll jump ship the minute he has a chance to join another team in Spain, Italy or Germany.

 

[pocco]

They have hosted De Jong's agent, Ali Dursun, at Carrington already this summer. Dursun is believed to have informed Barcelona De Jong does not want to leave, only Barcelona want to sell him. United suspected that pressure would cause De Jong to fold.

What I suspected. United probably had the door left open/FDJ didn't rule it out and they hoped that Barca's willingness to sell would force the issue. FDJ, when faced with the reality, chooses to stay at Barca.

 

[Adisa]

What did Graham Hunter say?

 

[bosnian_red]

He'd earn larger weekly salary playing for United, in addition to a more secure future.

I think he's refusing to leave until Barca pay what they owe him, which is fair enough if true.

The thing that is making it difficult is I'd bet that nothing is contractually owed, but when he renegotiated his contract, it was simply an increase later on, with no stipulation of what happens if he leaves. So now it's him feeling like he's owed that money, but not contractually bound to it. So he can stay and pick it up, or Barca can come to some agreement with him to get him off the books but pay him off instead of holding the wages. De Jong holds the power - he'll play if he stays and get paid, or he comes to United and gets paid by Barca. Up to Barca to decide to pay him what he feels he is owed.

 

[RkkMan]

What I suspected. United probably had the door left open/FDJ didn't rule it out and they hoped that Barca's willingness to sell would force the issue. FDJ, when faced with the reality, chooses to stay at Barca.

Read @mahzar13 thoughts on this

Here's a rational approach.

This article is from Luckhurst's opinion piece:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Every time Luckhurst writes an opinion piece, he goes in with a certain agenda and then portrays the appropriate information to fulfill it. In this case, he wants to satisfy you and other people who are getting tired of this saga. As a result, he's going to make United look bad, and he does that in a somewhat cheap manner by trying to draw parallels to Moyes's Fabregas chase along with alluding to how close we are to starting the PL season. The info from your first Tweet isn't anything new, either; his sources are people who are close to Barcelona's players, who would have already relayed this info to the Barcelona-connected journalists months ago. It's the same with the second Tweet, hence why Luckhurst used the word "believed" instead of alluding to "sources".

In the end, there's no new development or revelation in this opinion piece. It's simply there to satisfy the negative United fans on top of the opposition ones.

 

[romufc]

From the man himself who KNOWS the tier list/journalism method of writers.
@Keefy18
@romufc

Have you read this? It actually is a post that backs what we have been saying.

If he truly wanted to be a United player, he would have been one by now and if he remains in Catalonia this will have been a far greater embarrassment for United than the Fabregas farce. "

All evidence points to the contrary. "I prefer to stay," De Jong said in May. He called Barcelona his "dream club" in June.

Dursun is believed to have informed Barcelona De Jong does not want to leave, only Barcelona want to sell him. United suspected that pressure would cause De Jong to fold.

It is quite clear that Manutd are hoping that Barca pay De Jong £17m. Its quite simple actually, Barca would rather keep him than pay him £17m. The £17m if he leaves will have to be a lump sum, or if he stays is paid over the duration of his contract.

So 2 things, De Jong doesnt want to leave and barca wont pay him to leave, = De Jong most likely staying.

 

[DSG]

Luckhurst isn't a good source. All the good sources are saying the same. Even this isn't disagreeing with it.

1. Frenkie's #1 choice is to stay at Barca and collect his full wages and be key
2. Frenkie is more than likely open to joining United, if he is to leave Barca. United wouldn't be after him still if he told Ten Hag it's not happening (see interest for Timber, now Antony). Therefore it's the wage issue holding it up.
3. Barca want to sell him, the contract adjustment that was made likely didn't have it contractually mandated that Frenkie is owed his deferred wages if he were to leave part way through his contract. Frenkie believes he is owed this amount, Barcelona probably don't have to do it but it's a moral vs contractual obligation thing going on.
4. So you have discussions and a stand off where at the end of the day, Frenkie is OK to stay at Barca as he will collect the wages regardless, while Barcelona want to pressure him to leave without paying him off the full amount. Frenkie feels if they want to sell him, then they should pay him the full amount of deferred wages.

Its a 50/50 what will happen right now IMO. De Jong I would guess is ok with either option, but I think it's certain he won't leave without getting what he feels he's owed. So for Barca, it's a question of do they keep him on massively increased wages now, or do they pay him out what was deferred but save on the wages. That's why the latest reports from our side are we'll just keep trying til the end of the window, as it's a waiting game right now.

This is a corollary of what I said.

There is no fecking way United would continue to pursue this unless FDJ explicitly said he wanted to come to OT.

He loses leverage over back wages the minute he says he wants out.

They already have his replacement in Kessie. If he stays, he risks the World Cup — he’ll be in the Dutch side no matter what, but if he’s benched, he’ll surely lack sharpness.

 

[marcus agrippa]

They are basically mortgaging their future for success now in the hope increased success leads to increased revenue.

I believe Laporta is really Bartomeu in a different dress with some of the decisions they have made especially in the market and the levers all they have done is kicked the can down the road they'll still need to deal with the money issues and if TV money collapses for them they are really in the mire in a big bad way.

Yeah, I need someone to clarify this 'lever' business (what a dumb name BTW, but OK ... )

It's just a one-off payment secured against future earnings, right? So this is it going forward, for however long the agreement lasts (25 years, I've seen quoted), right? Whatever they earn going forward will be significantly reduced, no?

If so, then that's extremely short-sighted. You'd have to think the people buying those rights have put agreements in place that for Barca to buy them back before the agreement expires will cost quite a bit. Are Barca hoping that the value of their TV rights will grow so much that it will offset what they've lost by selling? Or are they gambling on a Super League? Either way, it's extremely risky just for a short-term dopamine hit of a couple of signings (one of whom, at 34, has no resale value at all, absurd given the original outlay, and wages!).

All I see online are these Barca fans gleefully celebrating 'levers' like it's some magic wand. It's baffling. No free lunches, guys ...

 

[Maticmaker]

Its beginning to look like we really do have some poor negotiators at the club, it been suspected for some time but this seems to be the clincher, once the other side understand there are no circumstances where you will walk away from the deal. They just dig in!

I hope this guy can 'walk on water', because it seems we are going to pay the earth to get him (including what Barca owe him) as well as grovelling into the bargain.

Wonder what the reaction will be in the United dressing room to all this?

 

[RedDevil@84]

Why would FDJ want to stay at Barca when they've made it clear they want him to leave? It doesn't make any sense.

Because he is entitled to nothing if he leaves. Why would he want to throw away silly money?
Unless of course, some other club is stupid enough to settle the dispute by compensating him.

 

[Keefy18]

Here's a rational approach.

This article is from Luckhurst's opinion piece:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Every time Luckhurst writes an opinion piece, he goes in with a certain agenda and then portrays the appropriate information to fulfill it. In this case, he wants to satisfy you and other people who are getting tired of this saga. As a result, he's going to make United look bad, and he does that in a somewhat cheap manner by trying to draw parallels to Moyes's Fabregas chase along with alluding to how close we are to starting the PL season. The info from your first Tweet isn't anything new, either; his sources are people who are close to Barcelona's players, who would have already relayed this info to the Barcelona-connected journalists months ago. It's the same with the second Tweet, hence why Luckhurst used the word "believed" instead of alluding to "sources".

In the end, there's no new development or revelation in this opinion piece. It's simply there to satisfy the negative United fans on top of the opposition ones.

I think everyone is getting tired of the saga, regardless of whatever we believe.

The key thing for me isn't the *believed* sentiment, its more so this

United have suspected that pressure would cause him to fold.

I've said throughout, we wouldn't go near FDJ but for Barca's financial problems. We're the only club dumb enough to consider transfer negotiations on a top player of theirs this summer, it's a freakin minefield, but here we are.

We are relying on Barca folding and finding a way, some way to force a player out who wants to ideally remain there.

We've just removed 2 players that don't want to be here (Pogba, Lingard), now we've Ronaldo openly courting other clubs and showing he doesn't want to be here... but its perfectly fine for us to chase a player hoping "pressure" causes a club to fold and lose a top talent?

 

[DSG]

Barca: "Frenkie, you are not going to start, we don't want you and can't afford to pay you. Find a new club and we will sell you. When you move, we also will not be paying you the money you deferred."

Frenkie: "I want to stay at Barca."


It's so obvious to me that he is just digging in and trying to force Barca to pay him what he feels he is rightfully owed. He did the club a huge favor by re-structuring his deal. Now that it has come time for him to get paid the deferred money, Barca want to ship him out and void his contract as he signs with a new team. He's having none of it. Keep the faith, fellow muppets. This deal is still on 100%. He wants the move, MUFC want the move and Barca want the move. Frenkie is just not going to let Barca weasel out of paying him what he is owed.

This

 

[Lemoor]

So 2 things, De Jong doesnt want to leave and barca wont pay him to leave, = De Jong most likely staying.

The third thing is Barca will lose a much bigger amount of money if he stays that they likely can't afford to lose.