Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Cassidy]

Whilst I don’t disagree with you, I think this one is a little different. Woodward and judge were clearly ill suited for this kind of negotiation as they are business/finance men first and foremost and lacked the knowledge of the footballing side of a deal. Murtough is a football man. The problem this year is the club we are dealing with rather than United. Whilst it’s dragging on a bit, and I understand the calls to move on I think in this case a bit of patience is required.
I trust the club to move on as soon as they stop getting encouragement from the players side or more likely to complete the deal.

With zero experience in transfer negotiations, let alone between big clubs.
Also we have signed one player, so the problem isn’t just Barcelona clearly unless you believe we only want to add De Jong to Malacia.
Lets see how things go but its not the best start from Murtough in the market, I hope he brings people in with the required relationships and experience to help him

 

[Plant0x84]

Why can’t Barca just use the money from the transfer to pay the wages they owe him? Sign an agreement or something.

They would rather spend it on flashy new signings to keep their fans happy.

 

[Cal?]

This idea too that say Giggs or Scholes would never have demanded the going rate

feck me. He’s not on a ridiculous contract at all, it’s around 250k /week for the duration of the 6 year deal. Pretending Giggs would’ve been happy to receive enormous paycuts whilst the club continued to sign new players on higher wages is hilarious.

Exactly, even if it was a ridiculous contract, Barca offered it in the first place.

 

[Plant0x84]

With zero experience in transfer negotiations, let alone between big clubs.
Also we have signed one player, so the problem isn’t just Barcelona clearly unless you believe we only want to add De Jong to Malacia.
Lets see how things go but its not the best start from Murtough in the market, I hope he brings people in with the required relationships

Are you sure about that? He’s worked in and around transfers for Utd long before he was appointed FD.

 

[prateik]

Its entire down to Barca and how they want to play it.

If they dont agree to pay him off, he'll stay and collect his wages (which will obviously be higher than what he will get at a new club because its wages + deferred wages).. No chance of him leaving.
If they agree to pay him off and accept a bid, dont think any player would want to stay on in that scenario.. especially when the club actually does need to free up the wages.. he will be pushed out.
If they decide to keep him and pay him what he's due, he'll stay and collect that money gladly.

It's almost certainly going to be the 2nd one.. they will reach an agreement.. Barca need him gone.

 

[christinaa]

We can only hope. It’s hard to tell on here lately.

I would like Neves.
He has Pl experience too.

 

[Cassidy]

Are you sure about that? He’s worked in and around transfers for Utd long before he was appointed FD.

He was not involved in transfer negotiations for the first team before this summer

 

[Maticmaker]

Can anyone point me to a recorded public statement anywhere, that FDJ says "I want to go to United", or even, "well if I cant stay at Barca I want to go to United"?

It would give us some glimmer of hope a) that he might come and b) if he does come he wont keep angling to get away (like Di Maria).
It doesn't make it right, it doesn't convince anyone (well me!) that the club knows what its doing, but at least we would have hope.. because that's all we have left and the 'bl**dy season hasn't started yet!!

 

[Thoms]

This would be so disappointing if you cannot get him. FdJ would personally bring UTD back to the top 4. The midfield is so shit right now. Neves in.

 

[izec]

We are his option B in case it goes tits up at Barca and they force him out/to reduce his salary, that is why we are negotiating. He would be dumb to straight tell us no, but he is obviously waiting to see how this turns out in August. It will get resolved one way or the other. He is not pushing for a move to United but is hopeful he will find a way of staying, and having us as his back up option if they can't find a solution in Barcelona.

 

[Plant0x84]

He was not involved in transfer negotiations for the first team before this summer

Only first team experience counts? Take your word for it mate.

 

[Berbaclass]

And he’s not coming here.

I’ll remember to quote this

 

[Tarrou]

Can anyone point me to a recorded public statement anywhere, that FDJ says "I want to go to United", or even, "well if I cant stay at Barca I want to go to United"?

It would give us some glimmer of hope a) that he might come and b) if he does come he wont keep angling to get away (like Di Maria).
It doesn't make it right, it doesn't convince anyone (well me!) that the club knows what its doing, but at least we would have hope.. because that's all we have left and the 'bl**dy season hasn't started yet!!

well he obviously hasn't said that, so no

 

[redcorner]

When are we going to actually admit that to Most hot players we are not an attractive club

Over the years i have noticed that we keep on going for players that actually dont want to come?

If he decides to leave Barcelona and Chelsea are really interested, He will go there cause of starry London and at least champions league

We acting as if with ETH we will be back in CL next year

We bought the likes of Sancho Varane and Ronaldo and yet had the worse season in living history and finished sixth

So honestly, as a club lets leave this FDJ saga and get other players before we loose out on them to

 

[Plant0x84]

I’ll remember to quote this

 

[Berbaclass]

Slip sliding away

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[cyberman]

Its entire down to Barca and how they want to play it.

If they dont agree to pay him off, he'll stay and collect his wages (which will obviously be higher than what he will get at a new club because its wages + deferred wages).. No chance of him leaving.
If they agree to pay him off and accept a bid, dont think any player would want to stay on in that scenario.. especially when the club actually does need to free up the wages.. he will be pushed out.
If they decide to keep him and pay him what he's due, he'll stay and collect that money gladly.

It's almost certainly going to be the 2nd one.. they will reach an agreement.. Barca need him gone.

Barca could be clever about this and use United as a bargaining tool to set the price when a team that De Jong does want to join comes along.
Say we stop at 80m and Barca say no, that’s the upper limit of why they can expect from others so they can swiftly close with a City or Chelsea (as an example)
It’s a bit far fetched but it allows United to do the negotiating for Barca.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

What, because he's returning to training? Why on Earth does this mean the deal is dead?

Well, it might have been better if he hadn’t, like Ronaldo, usually a sign that a player wants out

 

[Acquire Me]

I’ll remember to quote this

You will need to quote a lot of guys after this is done

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Can anyone point me to a recorded public statement anywhere, that FDJ says "I want to go to United", or even, "well if I cant stay at Barca I want to go to United"?

It would give us some glimmer of hope a) that he might come and b) if he does come he wont keep angling to get away (like Di Maria).
It doesn't make it right, it doesn't convince anyone (well me!) that the club knows what its doing, but at least we would have hope.. because that's all we have left and the 'bl**dy season hasn't started yet!!

Νοpe, but I cant point to you to a recorded public statement that says he wants to stay at Barcelona. It’s like trying to get a couple to split up because you fancy the girl even though she doesnt like you at all.

 

[Maticmaker]

Νοpe, but I cant point to you to a recorded public statement that says he wants to stay at Barcelona. It’s like trying to get a couple to split up because you fancy the girl even though she doesnt like you at all.

Now that's a point!
What if FDJ simply doesn't want to work with ETH again, he had enough of him last time? Perhaps something we are missing here, do you think?

 

[hellhunter]

Now that's a point!
What if FDJ simply doesn't want to work with ETH again, he had enough of him last time? Perhaps something we are missing here, do you think?

But he decided to keep that hidden from ETH and rather tell the spanish media?

 

[prateik]

Now that's a point!
What if FDJ simply doesn't want to work with ETH again, he had enough of him last time? Perhaps something we are missing here, do you think?

They have the same agency. If that was the case, ETH wouldve known and we would have moved on..

FDJ's agent knows what he wants.. ETH knows too. There is nothing to gain for the agent by playing this up .. it'll only piss off a client.

 

[Maticmaker]

But he decided to keep that hidden from ETH and rather tell the spanish media?

Oooh ...the 'plot' thickens

 

[sewey89]

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He’s just going to collect his wages

 

[Maticmaker]

They have the same agency. If that was the case, ETH wouldve known and we would have moved on..

Thought agents were like lawyers sworn to secrecy over their clients wishes... even from (or especially from) other clients?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

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Good. Sooner this is dead the better.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

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Probably has to unless does ‘a Ronaldo’.

 

[hellhunter]

Player under contract joining in club's work activities shocker

 

[sewey89]

Good. Sooner this is dead the better.

Yeah, the quicker we walk away from more and more top class players who would without doubt improve us, the better

 

[SER19]

Whilst I don’t disagree with you, I think this one is a little different. Woodward and judge were clearly ill suited for this kind of negotiation as they are business/finance men first and foremost and lacked the knowledge of the footballing side of a deal. Murtough is a football man. The problem this year is the club we are dealing with rather than United. Whilst it’s dragging on a bit, and I understand the calls to move on I think in this case a bit of patience is required.
I trust the club to move on as soon as they stop getting encouragement from the players side or more likely to complete the deal.

I hope you're right but I still view this transfer in the context of a completely neglected right flank, a stable of strikers heavily reliant on martial and rashford, and a current centre half pairing of a player who's just had one of the worst individual seasons ever, and an injury prone partner.

Again I go back to the Brighton defeat and as it stands there's a strong chance that 11 players who featured that day at some point, will line up on Tuesday (Ronaldo excluded). Im not freaking out yet, but it's extremely worrying at this point

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Yeah, the quicker we walk away from more and more top class players who would without doubt improve us, the better

Maybe we should wait until the deadline day to see if we can negotiate a deal with Barca because 2 months isn't enough time innit?

 

[nickm]

Assuming Barca are prepared to sell, I think we're going to get him, but everyone is going to have to be really patient because it looks to me like it's in our interests to move slowly. This is a negotiation.

1) I don't think we are his top choice and he'd prefer to go elsewhere if it came to it, which sucks but isn't really a deal breaker. (But we would be wise to have a back up plan anyway).
2) Keeping De Jong is going to cost Barca a lot of money that they would probably prefer not spend. I expect they want us to pay a chunk of the money they owe De Jong. Why? Because the money due is the substantive thing that keeps coming up when you read these 'he doesn't want to come' pieces (which never are attributed to De Jong directly).
3) Barca have transfer targets they need to get over the line ASAP, and there's a fair chance the De Jong money is pencilled in to part finance them. Let's see what happens when those transfers close - looks like that's starting to happen.

So the longer we play this out, the more pressure there is on Barca to do a deal and the more likely they will shift on the money owed. Barca have to act like they don't want to sell him (and leak that he doesn't want to come/he's decided to stay - although you never hear HIM say that) because it's really the only leverage they have.

We are just going to have to be patient.

 

[golden_blunder]

Now that's a point!
What if FDJ simply doesn't want to work with ETH again, he had enough of him last time? Perhaps something we are missing here, do you think?

Do you logically think ETH would still be in constant touch with the player and the club still working on the deal if the player had indicated he really wasn’t interested? I think the player knows that Barca are trying to force him out and he just wants he is owed

 

[Maticmaker]

1) I don't think we are his top choice and he'd prefer to go elsewhere if it came to it, which sucks but isn't really a deal breaker.

You are joking, what the feck what would be a deal breaker?
'We are not his top choice..... he would rather go somewhere else? Surely you forgot the bit about dragging him kicking and screaming into the OT dressing room and/or having to lock all the doors at Carrington whilst he trains!!

 

[nickm]

You are joking, what the feck what would be a deal breaker?
'We are not his top choice..... he would rather go somewhere else? Surely you forgot the bit about dragging him kicking and screaming into the OT dressing room and/or having to lock all the doors at Carrington whilst he trains!!

It's not 100% a deal breaker in a negotiation between two clubs who really want to do business buying and selling a contract, that's my point.

 

[NLunited]

Barça and bad journos are pushing a lot of bs, so let’s take stock of where we are at:

-Barça wants to sell FdJ to finance new players
-Frenkie wants to stay, but has not ruled out moving to MU
-MU wants Frenkie
-Frenkie’s agent is pissed at Barça
-Frenkie is set to earn about 90 million over the next 4 seasons, which includes deferred wages from the previous two seasons
-There have been no negotiations yet between Frenkie and Barça about his wages
-No other clubs are currently in for Frenkie
-Barça cannot force him to leave or accept lower wages

All this points to Barça and MU eager to make the deal and Frenkie keeping quiet to see what happens. He doesn’t want to burn his bridges.

Barcelona is stalling to try to increase what they can get out of the deal.

They are a mess of a club and probably Frenkie is getting pissed, but keeping his cool.

Realistically, I think his options are to move to MU or to stay at Barcelona on his current wages and wait until the Xavi experiment inevitably fails. He is no genius as a coach.

 

[C3Pique]

If anything it should go faster now he's back from holiday.

 

[Maticmaker]

if the player had indicated he really wasn’t interested?

That's the point isn't it? if he really didn't want to work with ETH again, he would have to think of another excuse not to come... which is maybe just what he is doing... by the way it was only a suggestion as to what else might be going on!

 

[elmo]

Assuming Barca are prepared to sell, I think we're going to get him, but everyone is going to have to be really patient because it looks to me like it's in our interests to move slowly. This is a negotiation.

1) I don't think we are his top choice and he'd prefer to go elsewhere if it came to it, which sucks but isn't really a deal breaker. (But we would be wise to have a back up plan anyway).
2) Keeping De Jong is going to cost Barca a lot of money that they would probably prefer not spend. I expect they want us to pay a chunk of the money they owe De Jong. Why? Because the money due is the substantive thing that keeps coming up when you read these 'he doesn't want to come' pieces (which never are attributed to De Jong directly).
3) Barca have transfer targets they need to get over the line ASAP, and there's a fair chance the De Jong money is pencilled in to part finance them. Let's see what happens when those transfers close - looks like that's starting to happen.

So the longer we play this out, the more pressure there is on Barca to do a deal and the more likely they will shift on the money owed. Barca have to act like they don't want to sell him (and leak that he doesn't want to come/he's decided to stay - although you never hear HIM say that) because it's really the only leverage they have.

We are just going to have to be patient.

No, what we need is to commit to a deadline for the deal to go through and be ready to walk away if it's not met.

Barcelona are treating us like ***** because from their point of view, we're desperate enough to wait for De Jong. Until we stay firm with the deadline and act on it, most clubs will just think they can fleece us just like that did under Woodward and Judge's time.