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JustAFan

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You don't think they share responsibility on this?
(I would blame both) (Also under-reported is the effect the UN vote for a nofly zone and how it was interpreted by NATO/the west, had on Putin's actions on Syria; it's partly why he maintains such a hardline against any condemnation).
Do we try and give Georgie Bush a bit of slack for the decision to invade Iraq because he had a bunch of advisors telling him it was cool? No of course not. So why should we give Obama some? Because he is a Democrat? Because he gives good speeches?

There seems to be this unwillingness on this forum to hold Obama accountable for things that went bad during his administration. By all means give him credit for the good things he did. By all means point out the obstructionist Republican congress he had to deal with. But by the same token things like Libya fall squarely in his lap. If we are going to point to someone in the US to blame for what a mess Libya has turned into, then President Obama should be the first person mentioned.
 

berbatrick

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Do we try and give Georgie Bush a bit of slack for the decision to invade Iraq because he had a bunch of advisors telling him it was cool? No of course not. So why should we give Obama some? Because he is a Democrat? Because he gives good speeches?

There seems to be this unwillingness on this forum to hold Obama accountable for things that went bad during his administration. By all means give him credit for the good things he did. By all means point out the obstructionist Republican congress he had to deal with. But by the same token things like Libya fall squarely in his lap. If we are going to point to someone in the US to blame for what a mess Libya has turned into, then President Obama should be the first person mentioned.
I guess this is subjective, but: there was a marked change in policy from the administration under Clinton and Kerry. Libya vs Syria. There were rumours of disagreements between Obama and the foreign policy types for years. OTOH, Clinton was vocal in her backing for toppling Gaddafi and then Assad.
Just as Cheney/Rumsfeld get part of the blame for Iraq, Clinton should for Libya. With Obama getting a tiny amount of mitigation for his Libya decision because of his later trajectory (Syria, Iran, Cuba).
 

JustAFan

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I guess this is subjective, but: there was a marked change in policy from the administration under Clinton and Kerry. Libya vs Syria. There were rumours of disagreements between Obama and the foreign policy types for years. OTOH, Clinton was vocal in her backing for toppling Gaddafi and then Assad.
Just as Cheney/Rumsfeld get part of the blame for Iraq, Clinton should for Libya. With Obama getting a tiny amount of mitigation for his Libya decision because of his later trajectory (Syria, Iran, Cuba).
You mean the Syria he helped feck up?
 

berbatrick

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You mean the Syria he helped feck up?
Yes, the same.
As you can see from what is happening right now, there were many ways to help feck up Syria, some worse than others. I don't think there were any good options and his non-escalation vs the regime, in defiance of his advisers was a decent move. Note that this was before the rise of ISIS, and we can speculate as to how quickly ISIS would have gone through a weakened regime. So I found it ironical that people originally calling for anti-Assad interventions, a few years later, were calling for anti-ISIS interventions, without considering how badly they had read the situation previously.
Combined with his eventual support for some Kurdish factions, I won't fault him on Syria at all.
 

JustAFan

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Yes, the same.
As you can see from what is happening right now, there were many ways to help feck up Syria, some worse than others. I don't think there were any good options and his non-escalation vs the regime, in defiance of his advisers was a decent move. Note that this was before the rise of ISIS, and we can speculate as to how quickly ISIS would have gone through a weakened regime. So I found it ironical that people originally calling for anti-Assad interventions, a few years later, were calling for anti-ISIS interventions, without considering how badly they had read the situation previously.
Combined with his eventual support for some Kurdish factions, I won't fault him on Syria at all.
Yeah who cares if all the arming of "rebel groups" backfired and made more of a mess out of Syria, why fault him for that at all. :lol:

I mean it is not like the US has not sent CIA, Special Forces, etc to the area to train and arm the rebels since fairly early in the war. Which is hardly "non-escalation."

:rolleyes:
 

PedroMendez

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Do we try and give Georgie Bush a bit of slack for the decision to invade Iraq because he had a bunch of advisors telling him it was cool? No of course not. So why should we give Obama some? Because he is a Democrat? Because he gives good speeches?

There seems to be this unwillingness on this forum to hold Obama accountable for things that went bad during his administration. By all means give him credit for the good things he did. By all means point out the obstructionist Republican congress he had to deal with. But by the same token things like Libya fall squarely in his lap. If we are going to point to someone in the US to blame for what a mess Libya has turned into, then President Obama should be the first person mentioned.
Neither does berbatrick nor do I try to white-wash Obamas deeds. I think we are both fairly critical when it comes to him. it is okay to blame him for the mess. At the same time governments are not a 1-man-show. When discussion Iraq&other-feck-ups, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld and other influential figures rightfully have to share some of the blame, because they had very negative influence on various decisions.

I have no problem with the argument, that when push comes to shove, the buck stops with the president. Thats true. It is also true, that other figures in Obama's administration were far more hawkish. Sure, he could have (and should have) ignore them or never appointed them, but even the president has to take certain political considerations into account. Additionally, most people underestimate the influence of the top levels of the executive on the FP decision-making (diplomats; generals; intelligence services).

I think the Trump presidency is the best prove, that the presidential influence on foreign policy is often overestimated. It is very difficult for the captain of a ocean liner to change course, when you are sailing with full speed, while the crew has different plans.
 

Nick 0208 Ldn

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Yes, the same.
As you can see from what is happening right now, there were many ways to help feck up Syria, some worse than others. I don't think there were any good options and his non-escalation vs the regime, in defiance of his advisers was a decent move. Note that this was before the rise of ISIS, and we can speculate as to how quickly ISIS would have gone through a weakened regime. So I found it ironical that people originally calling for anti-Assad interventions, a few years later, were calling for anti-ISIS interventions, without considering how badly they had read the situation previously.
Combined with his eventual support for some Kurdish factions, I won't fault him on Syria at all.
What do you mean by 'non-escalation'? Have you forgotten his own little red line moment? We'd have been doing a lot more than bombing one solitary airfield had that campaign gone ahead. Very much a weakened regime, and the gates of Damascus open to the likes of al-Nusra and Islamic State.



And then there was this farce, for all that he tried to distance himself from the policy:

In Syria, militias armed by the Pentagon fight those armed by the CIA

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html
 

berbatrick

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What do you mean by 'non-escalation'? Have you forgotten his own little red line moment? We'd have been doing a lot more than bombing one solitary airfield had that campaign gone ahead. Very much a weakened regime, and the gates of Damascus open to the likes of al-Nusra and Islamic State.



And then there was this farce, for all that he tried to distance himself from the policy:

In Syria, militias armed by the Pentagon fight those armed by the CIA

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html
Obama was president during the bulk of the Syrian civil war, and his legacy as commander in chief will be shaped in part by what he chose to do there — and what he chose to avoid.

One of those things was to refuse to endorse any kind of large-scale effort aimed at toppling Assad — repeatedly overruling members of his administration, like Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and CIA Director David Petraeus, who wanted to provide more advanced weaponry to the rebels. Parallel CIA and Pentagon efforts to recruit, train, and arm Syrian rebels did little to shape the course of the conflict; in 2015, the Defense Department had to concede that its $250 million effort had trained a grand total of 60 fighters (that’s more than $4 million per trainee).

Perhaps the defining moment came on August 21, 2013, when Assad's forces launched sarin gas — a horrifying and deadly chemical weapon — into the Damascus suburb of Ghouta, killing up to 1,423 people. Most of the dead were civilians.

Prior to the attack, President Obama had declared chemical weapons use to be a "red line": If Assad used them, it would trigger an American military response. But after Ghouta, Obama didn't seem to want to follow through. He submitted a plan for punitive airstrikes in Syria to Congress, where lawmakers from both parties signaled that it was likely to fail.

Russia offered Obama a way out of his self-made dilemma. It brokered a deal with Assad where he would agree to give up his chemical weapons and submit to international inspections if the United States agreed not to attack Assad.

The Obama team accepted this as a lifeline. As they saw it, the critical issue was never the Syrian civil war, which the president had decided was too risky to intervene in. Rather, it was the use of chemical weapons — a particularly heinous act prohibited by international law. If the threat of American military force got Assad to back down from chemical use, that would make chemical weapons use less likely in Syria and in other conflicts without putting American troops in harm’s way or risking a wider conflagration.

“I’m very proud of this moment,” Obama told the Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg. ““The overwhelming weight of conventional wisdom and the machinery of our national-security apparatus had gone fairly far. The perception was that my credibility was at stake, that America’s credibility was at stake. And so for me to press the pause button at that moment, I knew, would cost me politically [but] I believe ultimately it was the right decision to make.”
...
There was one major exception to Obama’s hands-off policy in Syria: the war on ISIS. But it was carefully limited, in ways that show why Trump’s strike was such a major shift.

After the militant group swept across northern Iraq in June 2014, and came to control a swath of territory in Syria and Iraq roughly the size of Great Britain, the scale of the terrorist threat became impossible to deny. This, together with the videotaped beheadings of two American journalists, prompted Obama to declare a plan to "degrade and ultimately destroy" ISIS on September 10.

The linchpin of the plan was a series of American airstrikes, both in Syria and in Iraq, supporting forces on the ground that were fighting ISIS. In Iraq, that meant the official Iraqi army as well as tribal leaders and Shia militias. But it wasn’t clear, initially, who that would be in Syria.

Most rebel groups were preoccupied fighting Assad, and had no ability to really refocus on the Islamic State. The same was true, in reverse, for Assad; he had long maintained a sort of de facto ceasefire with ISIS so he could focus on fighting the moderate rebels whom he saw as a bigger threat.

The US ended up settling on fighters from the Kurdish ethnic group, based in northern Syria near the Turkish border, as their key allies. These Kurds were mostly uninvolved in the main civil war, as their chief objective was carving out a Kurdish state in majority-Kurdish areas rather than toppling Assad’s regime in Damascus. Moreover, ISIS had invaded their territory, and was besieging a Kurdish city named Kobane at the time of the US intervention.

So the thousands of missions flown by American warplanes, and hundreds of US special forces deployed to Syria, were supposed to accomplish two things: cut ISIS’s supply lines between Syria and Iraq, and back Kurdish forces in their fight against ISIS.

On this metric, they’ve more or less succeeded. American airstrikes helped break the siege of Kobane and allowed Kurdish forces to launch a counteroffensive that swept over ISIS’s holdings in north central Syria. Today, a joint Kurdish-Arab military group called the Syrian Democratic Forces is camped out within miles of ISIS’s capital city, Raqqa — and are preparing to attack the city itself, with major backing from US troops.

But note the delicacy of this strategy when it came to the main conflict in Syria.

The United States was fanatical about limiting the scope of this counter-ISIS campaign — in particular, making sure it never became a counter-Assad campaign. When the Pentagon sent weapons to some Syrian rebels whom they wanted to fight ISIS, it made them promise not to use those weapons against Assad. (The tiny number of rebels who took the US up on this weak offer were swiftly slaughtered by al-Qaeda forces.)
 

SwansonsTache

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Seen some speculation regarding NK's nuclear programme in the news lately.

Do you guys think it is likely that they've got the H-bomb?

I am not a big fan of intervention, but if there ever was a cnut that needs to be toppled it is Jong-Un.

Most nations only use the H-bomb for posturing, but if there ever was one twat sick enough to drop it it would be Jong-Un.
 

JustAFan

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Seen some speculation regarding NK's nuclear programme in the news lately.

Do you guys think it is likely that they've got the H-bomb?

I am not a big fan of intervention, but if there ever was a cnut that needs to be toppled it is Jong-Un.

Most nations only use the H-bomb for posturing, but if there ever was one twat sick enough to drop it it would be Jong-Un.
Not sure if they have it, I think some of their tests have indicated they are getting closer.
 

2cents

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Cafe favourite Alex Jones is locked in a custody battle right now:

 

berbatrick

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Donald Trump is so spectacularly horrible that it’s hard to look away (especially now that he’s discovered bombs). But precisely because everyone’s staring gape-mouthed in his direction, other world leaders are able to get away with almost anything. Don’t believe me? Look one nation north, at Justin Trudeau.

Look all you want, in fact – he sure is cute, the planet’s only sovereign leader who appears to have recently quit a boy band. And he’s mastered so beautifully the politics of inclusion: compassionate to immigrants, insistent on including women at every level of government. Give him great credit where it’s deserved: in lots of ways he’s the anti-Trump, and it’s no wonder Canadians swooned when he took over.

But when it comes to the defining issue of our day, climate change, he’s a brother to the old orange guy in DC.

Not rhetorically: Trudeau says all the right things, over and over. He’s got no Scott Pruitts in his cabinet: everyone who works for him says the right things. Indeed, they specialize in getting others to say them too – it was Canadian diplomats, and the country’s environment minister Catherine McKenna, who pushed at the Paris climate talks for a tougher-than-expected goal: holding the planet’s rise in temperature to 1.5 degrees Celsius.

But those words are meaningless if you keep digging up more carbon and selling it to people to burn, and that’s exactly what Trudeau is doing. He’s hard at work pushing for new pipelines through Canada and the US to carry yet more oil out of Alberta’s tarsands, which is one of the greatest climate disasters on the planet.

Last month, speaking at a Houston petroleum industry gathering, he got a standing ovation from the oilmen for saying “No country would find 173bn barrels of oil in the ground and just leave them there.”

Yes, 173bn barrels is indeed the estimate for recoverable oil in the tar sands. So let’s do some math. If Canada digs up that oil and sells it to people to burn, it will produce, according to the math whizzes at Oil Change International, 30% of the carbon necessary to take us past the 1.5 degree target that Canada helped set in Paris.

That is to say, Canada, which represents one-half of 1% of the planet’s population, is claiming the right to sell the oil that will use up a third of the earth’s remaining carbon budget. Trump is a creep and a danger and unpleasant to look at, but at least he’s not a stunning hypocrite.

This having-your-cake-and-burning-it-too is central to Canada’s self-image/energy policy. McKenna, confronted by Canada’s veteran environmentalist David Suzuki, said tartly “we have an incredible climate change plan that includes putting a price on carbon pollution, also investing in clean innovation. But we also know we need to get our natural resources to market and we’re doing both”. Right.

But doing the second negates the first – in fact, it completely overwhelms it. If Canada is busy shipping carbon all over the world, it doesn’t matter all that much if every Tim Horton’s stopped selling donuts and started peddling solar panels instead.

Canada’s got company in this scam. Australia’s Malcolm Turnbull is supposed to be more sensitive than his predecessor, a Trump-like blowhard. When he signed on his nation to the Paris climate accords, he said, “it is clear the agreement was a watershed, a turning point and the adoption of a comprehensive strategy has galvanised the international community and spurred on global action.”

Which is a fine thing to say, or would be, if your government wasn’t backing plans for the largest coal mine on earth. That single mine, in a country of 20 million, will produce 362% of the annual carbon emissions that everyone in the Philippines produces in the course of a year. It is, obviously, mathematically and morally absurd.

Trump, of course, is working just as eagerly to please the fossil fuel industry – he’s instructed the Bureau of Land Management to make permitting even easier for new oil and gas projects, for instance. And frackers won’t even have to keep track of how much methane they’re spewing under his new guidelines. And why should they? If you believe, as Trump apparently does, that global warming is a delusion, a hoax, a mirage, you might as well get out of the way.

Trump’s insulting the planet, in other words. But at least he’s not pretending otherwise.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...p-swooning-justin-trudeau-man-disaster-planet
 

berbatrick

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The Guardian has a real hate on for Canada and choose to denigrate US at every opportunity. That said, it generates plenty of comments btl from the more gullible among us, so it certainly seems to be done by design.
Trudeau has an image among liberals worldwide as a hip young progressive because he says beautiful things about refugees and integration and has a perfectly diverse cabinet.
Then he sells arms to Saudi Arabia while it is bombing Yemen and wants to drill baby drill. He deserves to be called out.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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Trudeau has an image among liberals worldwide as a hip young progressive because he says beautiful things about refugees and integration and has a perfectly diverse cabinet.
Then he sells arms to Saudi Arabia while it is bombing Yemen and wants to drill baby drill. He deserves to be called out.
We sold light armoured vehicles to Saudi. Fairly innocuous. It's not like we sold them cluster bombs or chemical weapons.

We've invested billions in the oil sands and they contribute substantially to our GDP. We'd be idiots to leave it in the ground and leave thousands of people without jobs and income. If we did, the current government would be turfed out in the next election, to be replaced by one that would excavate the bitumen. The price drop orchestrated by OPEC hurt us badly enough. Leaving it in the ground would be devastating to our economy.
 

berbatrick

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We sold light armoured vehicles to Saudi. Fairly innocuous. It's not like we sold them cluster bombs or chemical weapons.

We've invested billions in the oil sands and they contribute substantially to our GDP. We'd be idiots to leave it in the ground and leave thousands of people without jobs and income. If we did, the current government would be turfed out in the next election, to be replaced by one that would excavate the bitumen. The price drop orchestrated by OPEC hurt us badly enough. Leaving it in the ground would be devastating to our economy.
https://news.vice.com/story/canada-...saudi-arabia-could-be-used-in-yemen-civil-war
Canada’s legal defense, filed in a federal courtroom in Montreal, contends that Minister of Foreign Affairs Stephane Dion has the authority to decide what does and doesn’t constitute a legal weapons sale — not the court. That principle stands, they contend, even if it means the Canadian-made Light Armored Vehicles (LAVs) could be used to fight a war in Yemen that Ottawa has repeatedly condemned.
It marks yet another shift in the government’s rhetoric on the issue. The Globe & Mail forced the minister to admit that the contract — drafted by his predecessor, but signed by the Trudeau government — was not a “done deal,”as he had suggested.
VICE News, meanwhile, showed that it was the Canadian government, not defense contractor General Dynamics, who actually signed the deal, undercutting Dion’s assertion that it was a deal between a private company and a foreign government.
I agree that a freeze on drilling would be devastating to the economy, but without a freeze or at least substantial reduction that's devastating to the world in general. It is 30% of the world's untapped reserves. Trudeau is no saviour, he doesn't deserve his image.
 

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https://news.vice.com/story/canada-...saudi-arabia-could-be-used-in-yemen-civil-war


I agree that a freeze on drilling would be devastating to the economy, but without a freeze or at least substantial reduction that's devastating to the world in general. It is 30% of the world's untapped reserves. Trudeau is no saviour, he doesn't deserve his image.
He has likable qualities but I don't know if anyone considers him a saviour. Additionally, I don't recall much in the way of specific campaign promises on either of these issues (the arms deal was initiated by the previous government so it is something they could have come out as vehemently against.

He's been fairly pragmatic so far and a bit wasteful as far as budget promises go but otherwise, his popularity worldwide is more down to him being largely the antithesis of the Trump's, Cameron's and May's, etc. The article loses credibility early on with the "he sure is cute, the planet’s only sovereign leader who appears to have recently quit a boy band...." line. Adult arguments tend to refrain from employing childish insults but as I indicated earlier, most of what the Guardian published about Canada is heavily slanted click bait.
 

caid

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We sold light armoured vehicles to Saudi. Fairly innocuous. It's not like we sold them cluster bombs or chemical weapons.

We've invested billions in the oil sands and they contribute substantially to our GDP. We'd be idiots to leave it in the ground and leave thousands of people without jobs and income. If we did, the current government would be turfed out in the next election, to be replaced by one that would excavate the bitumen. The price drop orchestrated by OPEC hurt us badly enough. Leaving it in the ground would be devastating to our economy.
We really need to get past this 'economy >>>> everything else' thing
Or even just stop being so bloody short sighted about it.

Taking it out of the grounded would be utterly devastating to a lot more than your economy
 

Dr. Dwayne

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We really need to get past this 'economy >>>> everything else' thing
Or even just stop being so bloody short sighted about it.

Taking it out of the grounded would be utterly devastating to a lot more than your economy
To be fair, Canada is one of the few places that might see a benefit from climate change on account of being covered in snow for between four to eight months of the year, so yeah, we are undoubtedly advancing our own interests here. And there's probably enough space to accommodate half of the people who will lose their homes due to rising sea levels and they will be glad that it's (finally) warm here.

But yeah, economy does outweigh everything else because governments don't like to see large swaths of their people without jobs, income, food to eat. Short termism is a fact of life, unfortunately.
 

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I agree that a freeze on drilling would be devastating to the economy, but without a freeze or at least substantial reduction that's devastating to the world in general. It is 30% of the world's untapped reserves. Trudeau is no saviour, he doesn't deserve his image.
It's not 30% of the world's untapped reserves; it's 30% of what's needed to take us past the tipping point.

Still scary, but tar sands are far more price sensitive than other sources. Meaning that number of recoverable reserves is highly volatile. And a drop in production of crude of that variety would just be made up by the Sauds who are buying up refining capacity on the US gulf coast to prevent it from being retrofitted to be able to process the light sweet crude gushing in places like West Texas. Both of which sources are less price sensitive than tar sands.
 

2cents

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Wasn't too sure where to post this interesting (and lengthy) piece on the idea of sincerity and its role in modern life:

Age of sincerity
In politics, as in militant religion, the performance of sincerity is everything, no matter whether right or wrong

https://aeon.co/essays/beyond-right-or-wrong-beyond-fact-or-fake-lies-sincerity

It's pretty long, but worth a go. This bit is especially good, I think it rings true (@Sultan @sammsky1):

"...Sincerity among militant Muslims does not require the existence of a single truth. Indeed, it is not even belief itself that the hypocrite betrays. For a generation, since the days of Al-Qaeda, this militancy has after all focused not on the singular truth of Islam but rather on being true to oneself. Militants test the truth of their beliefs by exhibiting their joy in enduring suffering, and even death in its name. Militants further set this form of sacrifice against that of their allegedly weaker or more corrupt enemies, in a contest of superior beliefs. In this way, the rhetoric of militancy is not only pluralistic but also founded upon doubt and uncertainty. It must be proven by personal sacrifice, not reason or revelation. Theology, much less theological reasoning is unimportant. The sincerity of militancy is a wager, and must be proven to oneself as well as to others, sometimes even posthumously as in a suicide bombing. Given the extraordinarily rapid conversions and radicalisation of so many militants, it is clear that there is no personal or ideological depth to their practices. In fact, it is the very absence of depth to their commitment that makes such quick, mass radicalisation possible.

In militant Islam, the claims to sincerity require more serious sacrifices than in European or US politics. With Al-Qaeda and ISIS, we see the complete fragmentation of the militant subject. As is now well-known, many of these young men enjoy the most ‘un-Islamic’ lives, while nevertheless being willing to die for their ‘Islamic’ beliefs. At issue here is not some kind of guilt about their contradictory existence, but instead the way in which a virtual life on television or social media ends up destroying its off-screen ‘reality’. The militant can be sincere only virtually, in a theatre of cruelty and sacrifice, which must finally destroy his other increasingly impoverished life, and in so doing render him a good Muslim, often only posthumously. It is no longer Arendt’s mask that must be ripped off the hypocrite’s face. Now, militants instead wish that individual Muslims would always act as faithful subjects of Sharia – in essence, as cartoon masks of ‘Islam’.

The careful curation of a media or virtual persona as a Muslim militant helps to diminish the contradiction of his quite different ‘off-screen’ life, which has little to do with ‘Islam’. The two lives of the militant are united and the contradiction is resolved only in the act of sacrificial violence. That sacrifice destroys one life, the ‘off-screen life’, creating a purely virtual subject entirely lacking in depth. Crucially, what has been destroyed is the very possibility of an inner life. In this way, the militant resembles the confessional subjects of reality television, whose ‘real’ life is subordinated to and eventually overshadowed or even transformed by an appearance on some television show devoted to anything from singing, dancing, cooking, dating, partying, cleaning, gardening or adventure..."
 

caid

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To be fair, Canada is one of the few places that might see a benefit from climate change on account of being covered in snow for between four to eight months of the year, so yeah, we are undoubtedly advancing our own interests here. And there's probably enough space to accommodate half of the people who will lose their homes due to rising sea levels and they will be glad that it's (finally) warm here.

But yeah, economy does outweigh everything else because governments don't like to see large swaths of their people without jobs, income, food to eat. Short termism is a fact of life, unfortunately.
I get that isn't politically expedient to deal with it but the whole 'society would fall apart if we don't continue screwing our environment' argument just pisses me right off.
Its blatantly, obviously, illogical nonsense on every level
 

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Wasn't too sure where to post this interesting (and lengthy) piece on the idea of sincerity and its role in modern life:

Age of sincerity
In politics, as in militant religion, the performance of sincerity is everything, no matter whether right or wrong

https://aeon.co/essays/beyond-right-or-wrong-beyond-fact-or-fake-lies-sincerity

It's pretty long, but worth a go. This bit is especially good, I think it rings true (@Sultan @sammsky1):

"...Sincerity among militant Muslims does not require the existence of a single truth. Indeed, it is not even belief itself that the hypocrite betrays. For a generation, since the days of Al-Qaeda, this militancy has after all focused not on the singular truth of Islam but rather on being true to oneself. Militants test the truth of their beliefs by exhibiting their joy in enduring suffering, and even death in its name. Militants further set this form of sacrifice against that of their allegedly weaker or more corrupt enemies, in a contest of superior beliefs. In this way, the rhetoric of militancy is not only pluralistic but also founded upon doubt and uncertainty. It must be proven by personal sacrifice, not reason or revelation. Theology, much less theological reasoning is unimportant. The sincerity of militancy is a wager, and must be proven to oneself as well as to others, sometimes even posthumously as in a suicide bombing. Given the extraordinarily rapid conversions and radicalisation of so many militants, it is clear that there is no personal or ideological depth to their practices. In fact, it is the very absence of depth to their commitment that makes such quick, mass radicalisation possible.

In militant Islam, the claims to sincerity require more serious sacrifices than in European or US politics. With Al-Qaeda and ISIS, we see the complete fragmentation of the militant subject. As is now well-known, many of these young men enjoy the most ‘un-Islamic’ lives, while nevertheless being willing to die for their ‘Islamic’ beliefs. At issue here is not some kind of guilt about their contradictory existence, but instead the way in which a virtual life on television or social media ends up destroying its off-screen ‘reality’. The militant can be sincere only virtually, in a theatre of cruelty and sacrifice, which must finally destroy his other increasingly impoverished life, and in so doing render him a good Muslim, often only posthumously. It is no longer Arendt’s mask that must be ripped off the hypocrite’s face. Now, militants instead wish that individual Muslims would always act as faithful subjects of Sharia – in essence, as cartoon masks of ‘Islam’.

The careful curation of a media or virtual persona as a Muslim militant helps to diminish the contradiction of his quite different ‘off-screen’ life, which has little to do with ‘Islam’. The two lives of the militant are united and the contradiction is resolved only in the act of sacrificial violence. That sacrifice destroys one life, the ‘off-screen life’, creating a purely virtual subject entirely lacking in depth. Crucially, what has been destroyed is the very possibility of an inner life. In this way, the militant resembles the confessional subjects of reality television, whose ‘real’ life is subordinated to and eventually overshadowed or even transformed by an appearance on some television show devoted to anything from singing, dancing, cooking, dating, partying, cleaning, gardening or adventure..."
That's an interesting article mate.
 

berbatrick

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SAME BUT DIFFERENT
How epigenetics can blur the line between nature and nurture.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/02/breakthroughs-in-epigenetics

Why are identical twins alike? In the late nineteen-seventies, a team of scientists in Minnesota set out to determine how much these similarities arose from genes, rather than environments—from “nature,” rather than “nurture.” Scouring thousands of adoption records and news clips, the researchers gleaned a rare cohort of fifty-six identical twins who had been separated at birth. Reared in different families and different cities, often in vastly dissimilar circumstances, these twins shared only their genomes. Yet on tests designed to measure personality, attitudes, temperaments, and anxieties, they converged astonishingly. Social and political attitudes were powerfully correlated: liberals clustered with liberals, and orthodoxy was twinned with orthodoxy. The same went for religiosity (or its absence), even for the ability to be transported by an aesthetic experience. Two brothers, separated by geographic and economic continents, might be brought to tears by the same Chopin nocturne, as if responding to some subtle, common chord struck by their genomes.
...
The Minnesota twin study raised questions about the depth and pervasiveness of qualities specified by genes: Where in the genome, exactly, might one find the locus of recurrent nightmares or of fake sneezes? Yet it provoked an equally puzzling converse question: Why are identical twins different? Because, you might answer, fate impinges differently on their bodies. One twin falls down the crumbling stairs of her Calcutta house and breaks her ankle; the other scalds her thigh on a tipped cup of coffee in a European station. Each acquires the wounds, calluses, and memories of chance and fate. But how are these changes recorded, so that they persist over the years? We know that the genome can manufacture identity; the trickier question is how it gives rise to difference.
...
In the nineteen-forties, Conrad Waddington, an English embryologist, had proposed an ingenious answer: cells acquired their identities just as humans do—by letting nurture (environmental signals) modify nature (genes). For that to happen, Waddington concluded, an additional layer of information must exist within a cell—a layer that hovered, ghostlike, above the genome. This layer would carry the “memory” of the cell, recording its past and establishing its future, marking its identity and its destiny but permitting that identity to be changed, if needed. He termed the phenomenon “epigenetics”—“above genetics.” Waddington, ardently anti-Nazi and fervently Marxist, may have had more than a biological stake in this theory. The Nazis had turned a belief in absolute genetic immutability (“a Jew is a Jew”) into a state-mandated program of sterilization and mass murder. By affirming the plasticity of nature (“everyone can be anyone”), a Marxist could hope to eradicate such innate distinctions and achieve a radical collective good.

Waddington’s hypothesis was perhaps a little too inspired. No one had visualized a gene in the nineteen-forties, and the notion of a layer of information levitating above the genome was an abstraction built atop an abstraction, impossible to test experimentally.
...
What allows a cell to maintain its specialized identity? A neuron in the brain is a neuron (and not a lymphocyte) because a specific set of genes is turned “on” and another set of genes is turned “off.” The genome is not a passive blueprint: the selective activation or repression of genes allows an individual cell to acquire its identity and to perform its function. When one twin breaks an ankle and acquires a gash in the skin, wound-healing and bone-repairing genes are turned on, thereby recording a scar in one body but not the other.

But what turns those genes on and off, and keeps them turned on or off? Why doesn’t a liver cell wake up one morning and find itself transformed into a neuron? Allis unpacked the problem further: suppose he could find an organism with two distinct sets of genes—an active set and an inactive set—between which it regularly toggled. If he could identify the molecular switches that maintain one state, or toggle between the two states, he might be able to identify the mechanism responsible for cellular memory. “What I really needed, then, was a cell with these properties,” he recalled when we spoke at his office a few weeks ago. “Two sets of genes, turned ‘on’ or ‘off’ by some signal.”
...
By the mid-nineteen-nineties, Allis had found an important clue. Genes are typically carried in long, continuous chains of DNA: one such chain can carry hundreds of thousands of genes. But a chain of DNA does not typically sit naked in animal cells; it is wrapped tightly around a core of proteins called histones. To demonstrate, Allis stood up from his desk, navigated his way through stacks of books and papers, and pointed at a model. A long plastic tube, cerulean blue, twisted sinuously around a series of white disks, like a python coiled around a skewer of marshmallows.

“Histones had been known as part of the inner scaffold for DNA for decades,” Allis went on. “But most biologists thought of these proteins merely as packaging, or stuffing, for genes.” When Allis gave scientific seminars in the early nineties, he recalled, skeptics asked him why he was so obsessed with the packing material, the stuff in between the DNA. His protozoan studies supplied an answer. “In Tetrahymena, the histones did not seem passive at all,” he said. “The genes that were turned ‘on’ were invariably associated with one form of histone, while the genes that were turned ‘off’ were invariably associated with a different form of histone.” A skein of silk tangled into a ball has very different properties from that same skein extended; might the coiling or uncoiling of DNA change the activity of genes?

In 1996, Allis and his research group deepened this theory with a seminal discovery. “We became interested in the process of histone modification,” he said. “What is the signal that changes the structure of the histone so that DNA can be packed into such radically different states? We finally found a protein that makes a specific chemical change in the histone, possibly forcing the DNA coil to open. And when we studied the properties of this protein it became quite clear that it was also changing the activity of genes.” The coils of DNA seemed to open and close in response to histone modifications—inhaling, exhaling, inhaling, like life.
...
The impact of the histone-altering experiment sank in as I left Reinberg’s lab and dodged into the subway. (How could I resist the urge, that spring afternoon, to categorize the passengers on the No. 6 train into the three basic New Yorker archetypes: worker, soldier, queen?) All of an ant’s possible selves are inscribed in its genome. Epigenetic signals conceal some of these selves and reveal others, coiling some, uncoiling others. The ant chooses a life between its genes and its epigenes—inhabiting one self among its incipient selves.
...
Epigeneticists, once a subcaste of biologist nudged to the far peripheries of the discipline, now find themselves firmly at its epicenter. “Fifteen years ago, a meeting on cell biology would hold a session on histones or DNA methylation—and no one would be at that session,” Allis told me. Now there are meetings on the epigenetics of human memory, of ants, of cancer, of mental illness. Part of the reason for the excitement is that epigenes may be vastly more tractable than genes. “Gene therapy was all the rage when I began my career, but manipulating genes has turned out to be much harder than envisioned,” Allis said. Genes, after all, are the permanent repository of a cell’s information system, and thus more tamperproof. (If genes are hardware, epigenes are firmware.) But by altering epigenes—the manner in which DNA is coiled or uncoiled, methylated or demethylated—one should be able to alter which genes are activated.

Medical epigeneticists are most excited about the implications for cancer. In some cancers, such as leukemias, malignant cells have markedly aberrant patterns of DNA methylation or histone modification. “Clearly, there’s a signal that epigenetic information is important for a cancer cell,” Allis said. “But can a drug safely change the epigenome of a cancer cell without touching a normal cell?” In my own leukemia- and lymphoma-focussed clinic, dozens of epigenetic drugs are on trial. Some alter methylation, while others perturb the histone-modification system. One woman with pre-leukemia had a spectacular remission on a drug called azacitidine, but, oddly, she began to have sudden spurts of anxiety. Were these symptoms related to the drug’s effect on the epigenomes of brain cells?

Other researchers, following Reinberg and his colleagues, have looked at how epigenetics might change behaviors—not just cellular memory and identity but an organism’s memory and identity.
...
The most suggestive evidence for such transgenerational transmission may come from a macabre human experiment. In September, 1944, amid the most vengeful phase of the Second World War, German troops occupying the Netherlands banned the export of food and coal to its northern parts. Acute famine followed, called the Hongerwinter—the hunger winter. Tens of thousands of men, women, and children died of malnourishment; millions suffered it and survived. Not surprisingly, the children who endured the Hongerwinter experienced chronic health issues. In the nineteen-eighties, however, a curious pattern emerged: when the children born to women who were pregnant during the famine grew up, they had higher rates of morbidity as well—including obesity, diabetes, and mental illness. (Malnourishment in utero can cause the body to sequester higher amounts of fat in order to protect itself from caloric loss.) Methylation alterations were also seen in regions of their DNA associated with growth and development. But the oddest result didn’t emerge for another generation. A decade ago, when the grandchildren of men and women exposed to the famine were studied, they, too, were reported to have had higher rates of illness. (These findings have been challenged, and research into this cohort continues.) “Genes cannot change in an entire population in just two generations,” Allis said. “But some memory of metabolic stress could have become heritable.”
 

berbatrick

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India stares at a future without jobs
If consolidation is shrinking job prospects in sectors like telecom, in others like software services and banking, the change is much more structural

A perfect storm is brewing across India’s industrial complex, one that will truly test the country’s demographic dividend. Restructuring in many existing industries is leading to layoffs in thousands while a future in which new projects could be driven largely by automation and robots could put paid to the aspirations of millions of young men and women readying to join the workforce every year.

Simply put, we could be looking at a future in which there are just no new jobs.

As it is, investment proposals have been coming down while the latest numbers from the Reserve Bank of India show that manufacturing contracted for the first time in seven years, from a growth rate of 12.9% in 2009-10 to -3.7% in 2015-16. So far, the focus has been on injecting fresh capital investment under the assumption that this will automatically lead to job creation. But it is increasingly clear, that correlation is tenuous.

According to estimates by International Labour Organization (ILO), India’s employment elasticity, a common measure of how employment growth responds to GDP growth, hovered around 0.3 between 1991 and 2007. Basically, 1% of overall economic growth produced 0.3% of employment growth. That number has been coming down quite alarmingly since, and now stands at only about 0.15%.

Facing uncertain markets at home and abroad and saddled with low capacity utilization, most large Indian companies have been loath to invest in fresh capacities. Even in sectors where there has been fresh investment, net job creation has been negative. Thus, the $25 billion investment by Reliance Industries Ltd in its telecom operation Jio, hasn’t added to the overall number of jobs in the sector as the incumbents have been forced to restructure their operations to trim costs.

Looking ahead, there could be more layoffs coming as the fallout of Telenor India’s sale to Bharti Airtel and the impending merger of Idea Cellular with Vodafone’s India unit, take effect.

If consolidation is shrinking job prospects in sectors like telecom, in others like software services as well as banking, the change is much more structural. Artificial intelligence and machine coding along with a shift away from outsourcing by large US-based companies, have dimmed the prospects of Indian software firms forcing industry body Nasscom to defer its annual revenue forecast for the first time ever. Banking is going through a similar churn and layoffs have been a regular feature over the last two years.

Sadly, start-ups which were expected to pick up the slack in job creation stemming from changes in these sectors, are themselves in the doldrums now. In recent months, hundreds of people have been laid off in the consumer internet space and with venture capital firms taking a jaundiced view of keeping the funding spigot open. According to an analysis by Techcircle over 10,000 people have lost their jobs in the Indian startup ecosystem since August 2015.

Unfortunately, there is no end in sight to this trend. Even when the investment cycle in fresh manufacturing resumes, it is unlikely that it will be manpower intensive. Automation is driving shop floors across the world with robots replacing workers in the ratio of 1:7. Nor is this restricted to developed markets. In India, sales of robots for factories are increasing at a rapid pace with companies like Grey Orange which build them virtually reshaping the logistics industry.

The problem, of course, is that sectors that were traditionally large employers particularly at the blue- collar level, have also altered irrevocably. Thus, mining, once a mass employer, has undergone a comprehensive change with traditional small-scale and public sector mining being systematically replaced with large-scale, privately-owned mines that are hugely mechanised. According to Central Statistics Office (CSO) estimates, in 1994–95, 25 employees were needed to produce minerals worth Rs1 crore. By 2003–04, that number had fallen to just eight employees. The result has been a steady dip in the employment numbers in that sector even while production numbers have gone up. What’s worse, estimates point to a further fall in the employment potential of the sector.

One fall-out of the uncertain jobs situation has been the increased incidence of what are dubbed “non-standard forms of employment”, such as contract labour as well as part-time work. These place employees in a potentially vulnerable state, besides denying them legitimate benefits.

In such a scenario where jobs are scarce, social security in the form of unemployment benefits becomes the only way to maintain stability.

But as the example of Punjab shows us, having money without work can be a lethal cocktail.
http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/0CgSDkiyz1b5GOQxvag5dI/India-stares-at-a-future-without-jobs.html
 

SwansonsTache

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39686239

An Italian prosecutor says he has evidence some of the charities saving migrants in the Mediterranean Sea are colluding with people-smugglers.

Carmelo Zuccaro told La Stampa (in Italian) phone calls were being made from Libya to rescue vessels.

Organisations involved in rescue operations have rejected accusations of collusion, saying their only concern is to save lives.

Italy is the main route for migrants trying to reach Europe.

Almost 1,000 people are thought to have drowned in waters between Libya and Italy this year, according to the UN refugee agency.

Nearly 37,000 people have been rescued over the same period, a surge of more than 40% from last year, the figures say.

"We have evidence that there are direct contacts between certain NGOs [non-governmental organisations] and people traffickers in Libya," Mr Zuccaro is quoted as saying in La Stampa.

He said that telephone calls were being made from Libya and rescuers were shining lamps to direct smugglers' vessels and turning off transponders so boats could not be traced.

But he did not say he would open a criminal investigation.

Mr Zuccaro's comments come amid growing criticism of NGO activity in the Mediterranean.

The EU border agency Frontex said the work was tantamount to providing a taxi service to Europe.

But Chris Catrambone, who co-founded the Migrant Offshore Aid Station NGO to rescue migrants, told Reuters news agency "more would die if we weren't there".
Norway currently has a ship there picking up migrants and transporting them to Greece \ Italy.

99% of the migrants they pick up are from countries not in war or conflict but people migrating for economical reasons, his puts a huge strain on the receiving countries and UNHCR reports show as much as 50% of the arrivals not even seeking asylum when they arrive, but simply disappearing.

The entire interpretation of the refugee convention today is a joke and we should interpret it as it was supposed to be, which was a means of temporary refugee for people suffering from war or political persecution with the aim of repatriation.
 
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PedroMendez

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The whole issue with refugees and saving them is a sad example of action triggered by emotion and not by reason. Saving refugees and helping them "feels" to be the right thing, but anything that incentivizes migrants/refugees to embark on a life-threatening journey (for which they have to pay a huge chunk of their savings) is horrifically immoral. Yet it would take courage to stop this form of illegal immigration, because in the short run it would look really heartless and brutal.
If Europeans want to help refugees/migrants by giving them a new home in their countries, allow them to migrate legally - without forcing them to risk their lives. Yet again, politicians would need courage to sell that to their voters.

In a way that tells us that our "help" is first and foremost about ourselves and not so much about those who need help.
 

SwansonsTache

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Only 2.65 percent of those migrants who arrived in Italy were granted asylum as genuine refugees, according to the United Nations.

The United Nations refugee agency (UNHCR) said 181,436 migrants arrived in Italy last year, most of them crossing the Mediterranean from north Africa in flimsy boats.

UNHCR said only 4,808 were granted asylum in Italy and 40% of the arrivals were found to be in need of international protection.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4442910/Less-3-migrants-reached-Italy-refugees.html

I couldn't find another source reporting it, I know the Daily Fail isn't well liked on here but I've Google translated the Italian reports and they are legit.

Really puts the aforementioned government sanctioned transportation of migrants into perspective.

also yes, @PedroMendez , asylum applications should be handled and given\refused at stations in the ME \ Africa, not require people to travel to Europe to do so. Todays system and todays interpretation of the refugee convention is a fallacy and it will lead to a system collapse.
 

PedroMendez

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Protesters are dying in the streets of Venezuela, and it's barely getting any coverage...

http://globalnews.ca/news/3428049/venezuelan-tanks-plow-through-crowds-as-2-month-protest-continues/
I made a thread about it a year ago and made the common mistake to underestimate the resilience of these kind of regimes. He already handed out half a million guns to his militias. At the moment it looks like that he'll rather burn the country to the ground before stepping down and accepting the democratic process. It is a shame. The leader of a student association (José López Manjares) got executed by Maduro's goons. Additionally rumours are floating around, that a important imprisoned opposition leader (Leopoldo Lopez) is in critical condition. So things don't look great.

on a slightly different note: Sex sells; even when you protest. This former model is getting a lot of attention for participating in the protests. That tells you everything you need to know about the priorities of the media and their viewers/readers.
 

2cents

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I made a thread about it a year ago and made the common mistake to underestimate the resilience of these kind of regimes. He already handed out half a million guns to his militias. At the moment it looks like that he'll rather burn the country to the ground before stepping down and accepting the democratic process. It is a shame. The leader of a student association (José López Manjares) got executed by Maduro's goons. Additionally rumours are floating around, that a important imprisoned opposition leader (Leopoldo Lopez) is in critical condition. So things don't look great.

on a slightly different note: Sex sells; even when you protest. This former model is getting a lot of attention for participating in the protests. That tells you everything you need to know about the priorities of the media and their viewers/readers.
Off-topic - how do you post a link like that with a title instead of the url?
 

PedroMendez

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pretty random: live-stream from a remote operated vehicle ("small unmanned submarine), that is exploring the floor of the the central pacific ocean with commentary from top scientists.
 

berbatrick

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@PedroMendez
I remember your post about cost inflation in US higher ed.
Today, I saw, inside a distant car park in my univ, widescreen (possibly LCD?) TV screens on each floor (empty apart from cars), showing a lifestyle TV channel.
 

PedroMendez

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@PedroMendez
I remember your post about cost inflation in US higher ed.
Today, I saw, inside a distant car park in my univ, widescreen (possibly LCD?) TV screens on each floor (empty apart from cars), showing a lifestyle TV channel.
I always thought that car parks are need to get pimped. Good use of the money.

I know a guy who works for a fairly prestigious physics research lab (Max-Plank-Institut) in Germany. They get (got?) sponsored in part by some crazy Arabs.. They got so much money, that they didn't really know what to do with it. The wasted it on all sorts of things; the director ordered so many gigantic screens, that they were able to pave the walls with them. Literally. One room had like 50 of them (all controllable via tablet). Nobody really ever needed this. Or this room. In the end they just tried to impress random visitors with it, which apparently worked reasonably well. "We are so high-tech". Ehm sure....why the feck not. :lol:
 

PedroMendez

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About 90 officers of the military were arrested, because they voiced discontent with the situation. The leader of the military (Vladimir Padrino Lopez) probably won’t turn on Maduro. He would have the power to do so (he might be the most powerful person in the state since Chavez died), but he is one of the biggest beneficiaries of the current regime. The military has tightened its grip on the state economy since Chavez is dead. Hopefully enough soldiers/generals are unwilling to openly kill/harm/suppress protesters.
 

berbatrick

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HOW MUCH DOES A POLITICIAN COST? A GROUNDBREAKING STUDY REVEALS THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN POLITICS.
First of all, the study explains, “exceptions, additions, and loopholes have proliferated around the rules governing legal contributions and expenditures. Congress has many times enacted rules that appeared to close off gushing torrents of money while in fact opening new ones.” The system is now “worthy of Gogol: a maze of bureaucratic spending and expenditures” that are exceedingly difficult to track.

The Roosevelt authors went to the effort of capturing as much of it as possible — and found that academic examinations of this subject miss as much as 50 percent of the money being spent on elections.

It’s also tough to legitimately measure how money could translate into congressional votes. Legislation often is thwarted by small numbers of politicians in committees, too few to create a good data set. In the Senate, few votes are ever taken, with most of the action going on beneath the surface. And there’s a continuous churn of elected officials, making it hard to find an inflection point in the decisions of any one individual.

The Roosevelt study therefore focuses on an issue where politicians were repeatedly forced to go on the record — House votes on the Dodd-Frank financial reform bill — and Democratic representatives who were representing the same district over several terms and would seemingly have little reason to change their minds.

Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010. After the GOP took control of the House in the midterm elections that year, representatives voted five times from 2013 to 2015 to weaken key provisions of the law in ways that big banks desperately desired.

There would be no discernible legitimate reason for Democratic representatives who’d supported Dodd-Frank to begin with to later defect from their party and vote along with Wall Street. Many did, however.

Why? Well, no one can say what was in their hearts, at least until we hear from someone like James Baker. But what the Roosevelt study demonstrates is that “for every $100,000 that Democratic representatives received from finance, the odds they would break with their party’s majority support for the Dodd-Frank legislation increased by 13.9 percent. Democratic representatives who voted in favor of finance often received $200,000-$300,000 from that sector, which raised the odds of switching by 25-40 percent.”

Intriguingly, Democratic representatives leaving the House after the 2014 elections were particularly likely to support Wall Street against Dodd-Frank.