Sean_RedDevil
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Favre's time at Dortmund must be over after the post-match-interviews with Hummels and Reus.
I doubt Rangnick would want to do that. His past with Hoffenheim and Leipzig would also be an obstacle.
Rangnick's time at Schalke was so short and Dortmund have signed players with a Schalke history too.You forgot Schalke...
Yes, that was pretty bold.Favre's time at Dortmund must be over after the post-match-interviews with Hummels and Reus.
Top of champions league group, only a few points off top, best player out injured, Sancho distracted by Utd summer talk, but that’s how ruthless you need to be to maintain standardsFavre sacked
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The funny part is, they never had a coach with a higher ppg haul. 2.09 points per game, equal with... not Klopp, but Tuchel.Tweet
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Confirmed by Ruhr Nachricten too.
So what? The 12/13 season aside the club never had such a good squad, especially if you factor in depth. Klopp took over the club in 13th place, he had to work with Großkreutz as a starter during most of his tenure, while Favre was able to use Brandt and Hazard as luxury players.The funny part is, they never had a coach with a higher ppg haul. 2.09 points per game, equal with... not Klopp, but Tuchel.
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Well, this afternoon's events answered the first question that would need to be answered before talking about available successors - whether BVB would allow Favre to see the contract out or whether he was actually in danger of being sacked immediately.[..] today's match looked like he lost the team and given that the problems are so fundamental and that he quite likely wouldn't have his contract extended next summer anyway I find it hard to imagine him bouncing back.
No doubt Nagelsmann or Rose would be preferred candidates, but the reason I said I was at a loss for names at the moment was that they are not availabe, the timing is not there. Certainly not during the season, and hardly next summer. Rose maybe more possible than Nagelsmann, as Gladbach are BVB's favourite club to prey on these days. But I don't really see them as easily available even then, just as you say.Rose and Nagelsmann would obviously be the most logical candidates, but Nagelsmann will probably look for a bigger job once he leaves Leipzig (and they wouldn't let him out of his contract so soon anyway). With Rose they might have better chances, but obviously only at the end of the season. The u23 coach is apparently quite progressive and highly rated in the lower leagues, so he could get a shot as an interim. Rangnick I find hard to imagine, though he would be kind of safe choice. Marsch will probably also be named by the papers, given that he speaks German, plays gutsy football and Salzburg might be more open than other clubs for a winter move, on the other hand he seems to be struggling himself at the moment.
That's what I was wondering. There surely would be problems with hiring him, the salary, the staff, the language. Availability, depending on whether he has offers like PSG or even Real, or some underperforming big club in the Premier League.I'm a bit wary of Pochettino, he'd probably demand a huge contract, suffer from the language barrier and he seemed to be quite happy in the underdog role at Spurs. I think - especially after Favre - Dortmund need someone ambitious, who brings a winning culture to the club and doesn't hide behind the financial disadvantages.
Yes, i agree that Favre is not a bad or average manager BUT he is also NOT a big club manager either. Teams like Hertha or Nice are his level and thats about it.Not a bad or average manager by any means. Hope he finds a new big club to step into.
I agree with Rose being the most likely of those two. BMG to BVB is more of a step up than RBL to BVB is these days too.No doubt Nagelsmann or Rose would be preferred candidates, but the reason I said I was at a loss for names at the moment was that they are not availabe, the timing is not there. Certainly not during the season, and hardly next summer. Rose maybe more possible than Nagelsmann, as Gladbach are BVB's favourite club to prey on these days. But I don't really see them as easily available even then, just as you say.
And in the German-speaking coach circuit, who else is there? Noone that to me seems a really convincing candidate. I do wonder whether Streich wouldn't deserve a shot at a bigger club, by now. And there's surely lots of interesting, promising coaching prospects, but none of them that wouldn't seem like a massive risk to hire in such a big job.
Marsch, that's a name I forgot about, you're right. Salzburg completely murdered us twice in the CL this season, they played exciting stuff, but their wastefulness was something else in both games. And from what I read about the Atletico game that seems to be a consistent problem of his team. No idea about how it is in the Austrian league. But an interesting coach. More transition football though?
Rangnick, not a fit for the reasons already said in the thread.
I don't feel like it's going to be Poch. For one BVB hardly ever appoints anyone outside of German speaking nationalities, with the exception of Dutch managers, but Dutch is fairly similar to German. The last time they appointed someone outside of German-speaking nationalities was Nevio Scala in 1997. Also, there was Favre who grew up in the French-speaking part of Switzerland, but he had been managing in Germany for a long stint prior to BVB&Nice.That's what I was wondering. There surely would be problems with hiring him, the salary, the staff, the language. Availability, depending on whether he has offers like PSG or even Real, or some underperforming big club in the Premier League.
But he is free right now, and I seem to remember that the BVB board was in contact with him before? They have made difficult international signings before. I have the feeling they could pull it off if they go in hard, problems like salary and language can be sorted, and in terms of style, competence and authority I think he would be an excellent fit to this team, honestly. We forget how good his Spurs team was, by the way also in the direct meetings with the Dortmund team. I think he is ambitious, and his record at Spurs is excellent exactly in terms of bringing a winning mentality to a financially disadvanted team, as you demand.
I wonder if that wouldn't be exactly the kind of ambitious statement appointment that BVB should be looking to make?
Ten Hag, good call, I also forgot about him. If Bayern needed a coach, I might prefer him to Rose as it currently stands.I agree with Rose being the most likely of those two. BMG to BVB is more of a step up than RBL to BVB is these days too.
but what about Erik ten Hag? BVB has sprung for Dutch managers in the past, and it was rumoured that BVB wanted him last season.
I don't feel like it's going to be Poch. For one BVB hardly ever appoints anyone outside of German speaking nationalities, with the exception of Dutch managers, but Dutch is fairly similar to German. The last time they appointed someone outside of German-speaking nationalities was Nevio Scala in 1997. Also, there was Favre who grew up in the French-speaking part of Switzerland, but he had been managing in Germany for a long stint prior to BVB&Nice.
Secondly, them appointing Terzic until the summer, even if that's them hoping for a Hansi Flick-like success, kind of suggests they're not grabbing someone who is currently available. Even though that might change quite quickly if Terzic doesn't deliver.
Neck injury? Everyone on the pitch was quite shaken apparentlyI didn't see it, but what happened to Mark Uth just then? Hope he's going to be ok.
His best work was for Gladbach, which is at least one step above, but clearly below actual top teams.Yes, i agree that Favre is not a bad or average manager BUT he is also NOT a big club manager either. Teams like Hertha or Nice are his level and thats about it.
Happened on a heading duel with Uduokhai.I didn't see it, but what happened to Mark Uth just then? Hope he's going to be ok.
So Dortmund and Gladbach aren’t big rivals then?Rumous have it that Rose's taking over in the summer.
Fair point, I guess it can be seen both ways, but they could've just as easily said he takes over on an interim basis without putting a timeline on it.Ten Hag, good call, I also forgot about him. If Bayern needed a coach, I might prefer him to Rose as it currently stands.
About the last point, I'd disagree. I think giving the job to the current assistant as interim is such a default move that it means they can appoint someone new at any given time without stepping on anyone's toes. And honestly it sounds too underwhelming that they should keep him any longer than necessary. It's all still to play for this season.
And appointing a foreign manager, yes, I'm aware (and Favre was part of the Bundesliga circuit already, even ten Hag of course has experience coaching in German football). But international top teams hire international top managers, if need be. I'm sure the BVB board is ambitious enough to look all over Europe, and maybe they should make the jump to actually hiring someone from outside for once.
That might be the case now but it wasn't back then. He took over a Hertha team that had finished in the top 6 in 8 of the previous 11 seasons before his arrival. Nice had finished in 4th place when he joined them.His best work was for Gladbach, which is at least one step above, but clearly below actual top teams.
Not really. Biggest reason for rivalry as far as I'm aware is that they both share Borussia in their name. But that's really just a gimmick situation where on the day of both teams playing, both sets of fans proclaim to be the only true Borussia. Otherwise despite both clubs not being all that far apart geographically I don't think there's much of a rivalry.So Dortmund and Gladbach aren’t big rivals then?
No. And Dortmund are the much bigger club as of now.So Dortmund and Gladbach aren’t big rivals then?
Fun fact: While Borussia is just the Latin name of Prussia, Dortmund was actually named after a brewery with the same name that happened to be across the pub where the founders used to meet.Not really. Biggest reason for rivalry as far as I'm aware is that they both share Borussia in their name despite both clubs not being all that far apart geographically.
Gladbach's rivals would be Leverkusen, Köln, Düsseldorf I think, whereas Dortmund's biggest rivals are Schalke and Bayern.
Well they had a rather soft schedule so far...then again playing Bayern didn't really stop their momentum either.I’ve read up a lot of Union Berlin’s rags to riches, the Berlin derby etc, and they are really good stories. Good to see them challenging with sides like BvB and Bayern in their forest-surrounded stadium. A Burnley, if you like. Similar style of football too. Do German fans think they’ll do something this season? Currently 6th of course.
I meant get the odd result against Bayern, BvB, Leipzig etc, but yeah, it’d be nice to see them play in Europe next season, and for a club their size, becoming a Freiburg is no shame whatsoever. Feels like their style wouldn’t suit Europe though! Burnley couldn’t even get through the qualifiers after all. Still though, the fact that they can even beat Hertha once in a while is unbelievable.Well they had a rather soft schedule so far...then again playing Bayern didn't really stop their momentum either.
As for seriously challenging Munich or Dortmund, they're not even close. Their best-case scenario would be them somehow taking advantage of this difficult season and surprising everyone by grabbing a Euro League spot. It's much more likely that they'll drop back into a mid-table spot before long though. That would still be a very good result for a team in its second Bundesliga year.
In the long run they could turn into a club similar to Freiburg, a solid Bundesliga team that will never have enough money to truly compete with the top clubs.
Favre is a nice guy, I feel sorry for him to go out this way and I wish him all the best. But if his time at Dortmund has shown anything it's that he doesn't belong at a bigger club. A top four challenger is his level and I don't mean this in a nasty way. But if you're supposed to challenge for titles saying stuff like "a draw is always okay for me" is a sackable offense, it's pure poison to ambition.Feel really bad for Favre, seems a genuine nice guy on and off the pitch but ultimately his impact waned off after a couple of good seasons. That first season is really frustrating, losing by 1 point after having a large lead towards the end of the season.
Not a bad or average manager by any means. Hope he finds a new big club to step into.
To be honest I didn't expect Dortmund to act so swiftly, as they are usually extremely keen on stability. I half expected them to let him get to Christmas. But in hindsight Hummels' and Reus' post match interviews seem even more damning now.Well, this afternoon's events answered the first question that would need to be answered before talking about available successors - whether BVB would allow Favre to see the contract out or whether he was actually in danger of being sacked immediately.
A 1-5 disaster against a promoted team does qualify as a sacking offense at face value, but I didn't know enough about the behind the scenes atmosphere to be sure he would be sacked. So your estimation that they decided he has lost the team was correct. And that of course is the reason he's sacked, not a single result. On top of the fact that the board never showed great enthusiasm towards his work, they backed him very reservedly, one always had the feeling they'd have preferred to have Nagelsmann.
Streich is like an old hermit, he's found his place in the world in Freiburg and he has zero ambition to move elsewhere. Freiburg is a different world entirely to Dortmund as well, it would've been a (too) huge step for him. I'm only aware of Marsch's CL exploits and they are surely impressive and what Dortmund are looking for, but a couple of days ago I also saw an interview he gave after a domestic match, where he basically conceded that he had no idea why Salzburg couldn't beat their domestic fodder and that lets all the alarm bells ring, given Dortmund's own track record against relegation candidates and promoted teams.No doubt Nagelsmann or Rose would be preferred candidates, but the reason I said I was at a loss for names at the moment was that they are not availabe, the timing is not there. Certainly not during the season, and hardly next summer. Rose maybe more possible than Nagelsmann, as Gladbach are BVB's favourite club to prey on these days. But I don't really see them as easily available even then, just as you say.
And in the German-speaking coach circuit, who else is there? Noone that to me seems a really convincing candidate. I do wonder whether Streich wouldn't deserve a shot at a bigger club, by now. And there's surely lots of interesting, promising coaching prospects, but none of them that wouldn't seem like a massive risk to hire in such a big job.
Marsch, that's a name I forgot about, you're right. Salzburg completely murdered us twice in the CL this season, they played exciting stuff, but their wastefulness was something else in both games. And from what I read about the Atletico game that seems to be a consistent problem of his team. No idea about how it is in the Austrian league. But an interesting coach. More transition football though?
Rangnick, not a fit for the reasons already said in the thread.
Who knows why they picked Terzic instead. Maybe it's because he's quite experienced, maybe either they (or he himself) don't want to see Maaßen get burned in such a tough situation. The u23 is also doing really well this season and getting them promoted seems to be a priority, so as far as opportunity cost goes, Terzic's is far lesser (not that they would sacrifice their first team for the second).Instead of the U23 coach you mention, they've given the interim role to the assistant Tercic. I can't imagine that Tercic would be in contention to get the job permanently, but then this means the treshold for appointing the U23 coach is higher, as he can't be slipped in, tried out, as interim anymore.
I also wonder whether it isn't too early in the season still to leave the job as interim until summer?
I think these days it's all about ideas, giving your team a feeling of inspiration. On one hand we saw Nagelsmann salvage Hoffenheim from a desperate relegation battle and turn them into a top 4 club, despite being younger than a couple of his players. Tuchel had Dortmund on track for a record breaking season, despite only coaching Mainz before and having to take over from Klopp. We also saw Ancelotti get rejected by Bayern's squad in record time. These days you need to convince players that you can help them reach a higher level, that you have the answers to their struggles. Reputation is just bonus.We can't forget that the BVB job is besides Bayern (and maybe to an extent RB now) the only high pressure managerial job in Bundesliga. It demands 2nd place as a minimum, competing for the league title as a serious target, reaching CL knockouts etc. The squad has not just talents, but internationally hyped big name talents and a couple of seasoned top players too. It requires a certain authority in man-management (Not in the sense of authoritarianism, but in the sense that these players are surely harder to impress than the ones at, say, Gladbach or Salzburg).
If Pochettino was German speaking sure, but the language barrier by itself could make this a disaster. And that's too big a risk in Covid times. And that's all assuming he would even want the job. The fact that they announced Terzic until season's end basically puts any idea of Pochettino or Rangnick to rest immediately anyway.That's what I was wondering. There surely would be problems with hiring him, the salary, the staff, the language. Availability, depending on whether he has offers like PSG or even Real, or some underperforming big club in the Premier League.
But he is free right now, and I seem to remember that the BVB board was in contact with him before? They have made difficult international signings before. I have the feeling they could pull it off if they go in hard, problems like salary and language can be sorted, and in terms of style, competence and authority I think he would be an excellent fit to this team, honestly. We forget how good his Spurs team was, by the way also in the direct meetings with the Dortmund team. I think he is ambitious, and his record at Spurs is excellent exactly in terms of bringing a winning mentality to a financially disadvantaged team, as you demand.
I wonder if that wouldn't be exactly the kind of ambitious statement appointment that BVB should be looking to make?
Never watched any of his conferences or interviews was he very Moyesesque in his pragmatism?Favre is a nice guy, I feel sorry for him to go out this way and I wish him all the best. But if his time at Dortmund has shown anything it's that he doesn't belong at a bigger club. A top four challenger is his level and I don't mean this in a nasty way. But if you're supposed to challenge for titles saying stuff like "a draw is always okay for me" is a sackable offense.