Suedesi
Full Member
The top 4 battle in Germany is very exciting. Big win by Dortmund today, and Leverkusen - Frankfurt will be interesting
Dortmund have Leverkusen, Mainz and Leipzig on their plate and they are in no way dominating. I think it's still 70% at least that Frankfurt and Wolfsburg will keep their spots.The top 4 battle in Germany is very exciting. Big win by Dortmund today, and Leverkusen - Frankfurt will be interesting
Wage expenditure as per DFL release for 18/19:
Bayern €356mil Dortmund €205m Leverkusen €136m Wolfsburg €131m Leipzig €125m ... ... Gladbach €98m ... ... Frankfurt €92m
I don't think I have to educate you about transfer spending.
What's the difference exactly to Mainz or Freiburg? They have their sponsors who seek a return from their investments and we have Bayer who also seek a return from their investments. It's not like there are any sugar daddy clubs in the Bundesliga that have an investor who's not subservient to the laws of economy and can spend more than he earns.TV money being evenly-ish distributed is nothing other than big clubs giving small clubs money. In the public commonly referred to as the solidarity principle. It's a very good idea when it benefits clubs like Freiburg or Mainz, because it gives them a much needed leg to stand on. But it's a bit absurd, when it supports plastics, who have their parent company to fill that role.
What do you expect me to do? Research the history for every club to derive which ventures were financed by borrowed capital and which by equity?Well clubs are doing it. So I don't know what you are on about. Still waiting for you to list examples from abroad that show what the clubs are missing out on.
A better chance? Man, Dortmund after more than 10 years of constant success and brillant management are nowhere near Bayern. One could even argue that the distance has increased.Not abiding by 50+1 is an advantage in the sense that it allows clubs to exist whose parent companies spend enough to maintain top four and not a cent more. Which is an advantage over some clubs with much bigger potential, but ultimately something that hurts the league, because this class of clubs will never amount to anything that can challenge Bayern and keeps down clubs that might have a better chance.
Leverkusen has a balanced spending, because they haven't invested the Havertz money yet. If you dial things back a year the picture is quite different.My table was a little bit older. Schalke was still fourth in the one I was referring to. Anyway, keep in mind that Leverkusen's salaries are the result of more or less 20 years of reliably qualifying for the international cups. I guarantee you that we wouldn't be able to pay salaries as high as Schalke's or Hamburg's if kept missing the minimum objectives repeatedly. So the one standing out is actually Wolfsburg which hasn't had any noticeable success this season aside.
And please, teach me about transfer expenditures. Because as far as I know, Leverkusen has a positive transfer balance over the last five years and still was very short of cash in the summer.
The difference is that Mainz and Freiburg can only spend what they earn on sporting merit. Whereas plastic clubs are quite disconnected from that dynamic. If Bayer pull the plug Leverkusen would play their next derby against Uerdingen. If Freiburg's sponsor goes bust they just get a new one.What's the difference exactly to Mainz or Freiburg? They have their sponsors who seek a return from their investments and we have Bayer who also seek a return from their investments. It's not like there are any sugar daddy clubs in the Bundesliga that have an investor who's not subservient to the laws of economy and can spend more than he earns.
That aside, your argument is a bit pointless. Leagues are leagues, you can monetize your reach in other ways and still utilize your popularity advantage. As I said: Your arguments are exactly the same as the ones proposed by Perez. Almost to the wording.
So your examples are clubs that were already bigger than any other Bundesliga club bar Bayern to begin with and manouvered themselves into heavy debts. You know who also recently got (license for) a capital increase? Dortmund. If 50+1 was the obstacle for clubs to experience a rags to riches story, then it shouldn't be hard to spot these stories abroad. So if you can't find them I expect you to admit you're really asking for a state owned club, or stop making these arguments.What do you expect me to do? Research the history for every club to derive which ventures were financed by borrowed capital and which by equity?
Well, if you want a quick example, take Juve's capital increase in 18/19. Or Inter's in 2005 and 2009 which were instrumental for them winning the CL.
Well yesterday you wrote this:A better chance? Man, Dortmund after more than 10 years of constant success and brillant management are nowhere near Bayern. One could even argue that the distance has increased.
What has changed since then?With a little bit of fantasy you could maybe argue that Dortmund started the season with an equally good team in 2019 but they bottled it.
Actually we have. Palacios, Demirbay and Wirtz were signed in anticipation of the eventual Havertz departure. Völler said as much in interviews. We're broke right now, in fact that was the reason why the Rashica signing failed and we tried to sign three loan players in Arias, Kolasinac and Rashica in one window. There's also the Gewinnabführungsklausel with Bayer that has lead to a surprisingly low transfer budget in some of the last years. Anyway, even if nothing of that would've been the case, I believe that 63 million over 5 years is hardly something crazy for a club that is constantly playing EL or CL.Leverkusen has a balanced spending, because they haven't invested the Havertz money yet. If you dial things back a year the picture is quite different.
So please tell me again how these clubs just work that much more efficiently.
I highly doubt that. As said, I believe you highly underestimate the impact professionalism has in this.The difference is that Mainz and Freiburg can only spend what they earn on sporting merit. Whereas plastic clubs are quite disconnected from that dynamic. If Bayer pull the plug Leverkusen would play their next derby against Uerdingen. If Freiburg's sponsor goes bust they just get a new one.
Yes, those are my examples. Could we now please stop wasting words? Because I can't imagine you seriously want to argue that being allowed to make such deals wouldn't heavily influence the financial capabilities and growth potential of a club. And I also highly doubt that you'd want to compare a football club making an IPO with a capital increase by an investor who owns more than 60% of the team.So your examples are clubs that were already bigger than any other Bundesliga club bar Bayern to begin with and manouvered themselves into heavy debts. You know who also recently got (license for) a capital increase? Dortmund. If 50+1 was the obstacle for clubs to experience a rags to riches story, then it shouldn't be hard to spot these stories abroad. So if you can't find them I expect you to admit you're really asking for a state owned club, or stop making these arguments.
I honestly don't really get what you're aiming at? Bayern sacked their worst coach since Klinsmann and many players made a huge step or found form again under Flick, e. g. Alaba, Boateng, Goretzka, Kimmich, Coman, Müller, Perisic and Gnabry. I'm sure you agree that those names are seen fundamentally differently since compared to the start of the 2019 season.Well yesterday you wrote this:
What has changed since then?
Okay, so maybe it's just the modest €130m annually in wages for Leverkusen and the commendable EL finishes that really show the competition how it's done.Actually we have. Palacios, Demirbay and Wirtz were signed in anticipation of the eventual Havertz departure. Völler said as much in interviews. We're broke right now, in fact that was the reason why the Rashica signing failed and we tried to sign three loan players in Arias, Kolasinac and Rashica in one window. There's also the Gewinnabführungsklausel with Bayer that has lead to a surprisingly low transfer budget in some of the last years. Anyway, even if nothing of that would've been the case, I believe that 63 million over 5 years is hardly something crazy for a club that is constantly playing EL or CL.
Mate, be honest here. Take a step back and reflect.I highly doubt that. As said, I believe you highly underestimate the impact professionalism has in this.
Yes I do. Because no one is just going to endlessly pump money into a club out of the kindness of their heart, without expecting some kind of return - be it sports washing or what the Glazers do. And it's telling that the best you can come up with are two clubs who had better foundations than any Bundesliga club bar Bayern, who should be able to sustain themselves among the elite independently, yet - pressured by debt - appear desperate for a Super League that German clubs were able to reject.Yes, those are my examples. Could we now please stop wasting words? Because I can't imagine you seriously want to argue that being allowed to make such deals wouldn't heavily influence the financial capabilities and growth potential of a club. And I also highly doubt that you'd want to compare a football club making an IPO with a capital increase by an investor who owns more than 60% of the team.
Also, I'm pretty sure that the involvements of Ismaik, Kühne, Windhorst and Hopp would've look vastly different if 50 + 1 wasn't in place. Hopp even claimed that Hoffenheim wasn't his first choice if I'm not mistaken.
Yes, only the 130m salary budget at a club that qualified for international cups 16 times in the last 20 years of which 10 were for the UCL. Almost every other club would've had a much higher salary budget than we have with similarly sustainable success.Okay, so maybe it's just the modest €130m annually in wages for Leverkusen and the commendable EL finishes that really show the competition how it's done.
Come on now, that's just distracting on your part. This had nothing to do with the management of a football club. The Bayern leadership has done far worse things although the club is among the most professional out there. To be honest, I'm a little bit disappointed. This was silly.Mate, be honest here. Take a step back and reflect.
Are you honestly bragging about this beacon of professionalism?
How much of that supposed professionalism is actually just a lack of interest and thus scrutiny from the public?
Well, that's pretty absurd take for me. I don't think it is debatable that easier access to funding means faster growth oppprtunities. Accelerated growth is faster than organic growth/bootstrapping. I mean, this is pretty much universal business knowledge. If you really disagree with that, and I still don't believe you actually do, then let's just agree to disagree.Yes I do. Because no one is just going to endlessly pump money into a club out of the kindness of their heart, without expecting some kind of return - be it sports washing or what the Glazers do. And it's telling that the best you can come up with are two clubs who had better foundations than any Bundesliga club bar Bayern, who should be able to sustain themselves among the elite independently, yet - pressured by debt - appear desperate for a Super League that German clubs were able to reject.
The fact is that Bayern have a head start woth several decades over their competition, which means if they do their job well no one can match them. There is no easy way to fix that, unless we're talking something like Saudi ownership no one in their right mind is going to pump a fraction of what would be necessary, hundreds of millions every year, into a football club.
I would hope so. No one wants to see Frankfurt in the CL, well apart from Eintracht fans of course. Btw same goes for Wolfsburg, ugh such an awful club and "city".I see Frankfurt's forms gone to shit, they're gonna let Dortmund back in aren't they
Shame would have been fecking hilarious seeing them in the Europa next season
I'd like Frankfurt in the CL. I also believe it'll be the case sooner or later, their club is developing pretty well. They could take a similar development as Dortmund long term.I would hope so. No one wants to see Frankfurt in the CL, well apart from Eintracht fans of course. Btw same goes for Wolfsburg, ugh such an awful club and "city".
He scored 12 goals in his first 19 games and has only scored once in the 16 games since then. Hard to tell what the problem is...he's still a good player but he's clearly thinking too much about his dry spell.Berlin could go aswell although they have a decent run in and plenty of games in hand although will be congested finish for them.
Haven't really been following them much but what happened to the Brazilian guy upfront who people were going mad about last season, just a purple patch of form?
Hertha being a bit shit and completely relying on Cunha to create space probably didn't help him too much.He scored 12 goals in his first 19 games and has only scored once in the 16 games since then. Hard to tell what the problem is...he's still a good player but he's clearly thinking too much about his dry spell.
I personally hope for relegation and bankruptcy when it comes to Frankfurt. Then again my hometown club are die Lilien, so I might be a bit biased when it comes to judging Frankfurt.I'd like Frankfurt in the CL. I also believe it'll be the case sooner or later, their club is developing pretty well. They could take a similar development as Dortmund long term.
I will rather see Frankfurt in Europe than WolfsburgI would hope so. No one wants to see Frankfurt in the CL, well apart from Eintracht fans of course. Btw same goes for Wolfsburg, ugh such an awful club and "city".
Definitely, and he doesn't seem to trust some of his teammates...but last year's situation was even worse (he arrived while Nouri was still coach) and he pretty much singlehandedly kept Hertha afloat during that time.Hertha being a bit shit and completely relying on Cunha to create space probably didn't help him too much.
Dribbles per 90:
1. Cunha 5.52
2. Lukebakio 3.23
3. Mittelstädt 2.04
They have been doing really well recently but I would not necessarily extrapolate that to future successes. This summer they need to replace their coach and their sporting director, not sure if any players are heading out as well. Will be interesting to see how they deal with this rather significant change.I'd like Frankfurt in the CL. I also believe it'll be the case sooner or later, their club is developing pretty well. They could take a similar development as Dortmund long term.
I recently read that Frankfurt has increased their commercial revenue by 60% in the last few years and are revenue-wise in the top 20 in Europe now. That's stuff which is relatively independent of on the pitch success and really impressive, IMO. Of course this is not guaranteeing anything, as Schalke has proved this season, but it definitely makes screwing up a bit harder I expect them to drop a level in the short term but bounce back eventually.They have been doing really well recently but I would not necessarily extrapolate that to future successes. This summer they need to replace their coach and their sporting director, not sure if any players are heading out as well. Will be interesting to see how they deal with this rather significant change.
That being said I would generally like to see them in the CL, just not at the expense of Dortmund Wolfsburg and Leipzig however can feck right off.
So Nagelsmann might go to Bayern and Krösche to Frankfurt - that would mean that RB Leipzig is the next club to replace both coach and DoF for next season). And already today Markus Weinzierl is back as coach for Augsburg, who sacked Heiko Herrlich today. Really a lot of changes ongoing in the end of this season and in preparation for the next season. A lot of teams will look a bit different next year, that is for sure now.Tweet
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What's going on here? Poached by Frankfurt? How long before papers bring up Rangnick?
Nagelsmann to Bayern will be surely confirmed in the next few weeks.
HelloAh, i just caught up. Nothing on Nagelsmann leaving Leipzig though, which was my point. If(!) Bayern get him it will be really, and i mean REALLY expensive.
Natural step would be Jesse Marsch (who wants to make the next step) from Salzburg to Leipzig. Probably Glasner from Wolfsburg would go home to Salzburg.So Nagelsmann might go to Bayern and Krösche to Frankfurt - that would mean that RB Leipzig is the next club to replace both coach and DoF for next season). And already today Markus Weinzierl is back as coach for Augsburg, who sacked Heiko Herrlich today. Really a lot of changes ongoing in the end of this season and in preparation for the next season. A lot of teams will look a bit different next year, that is for sure now.
Frankfurt is still looking for a new coach. Glasner to Frankfurt also seems to be possible. In that scenario Salzburg would need someone else.Natural step would be Jesse Marsch (who wants to make the next step) from Salzburg to Leipzig. Probably Glasner from Wolfsburg would go home to Salzburg.
Glasner is supposedly a bit homesick.r
Frankfurt is still looking for a new coach. Glasner to Frankfurt also seems to be possible. In that scenario Salzburg would need someone else.
Also still unclear if Hannes Wolf will stay at Leverkusen after the season or if he will return to his DFB U18 job (that he left on loan to Leverkusen).
Understandable having moved from Salzburg to Wolfsburg.Glasner is supposedly a bit homesick.
I'm all for saying the you can visit die Autostadt only so often, but as far as I know the meta for Wolfsburg staff and players is to live in Berlin and make use of the quick train connection.Understandable having moved from Salzburg to Wolfsburg.
Not quite the clubs you'd expect on that listSo - how many 1. BL clubs will be starting 2021-22 with the same coach as 2020-21? Union Berlin, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg, Freiburg, Hoffenheim, Mainz? Maybe Bielefeld?
Midtable clubs that did fine. I guess that's where there is the least pressure as long as you're never in the relegation fight.Not quite the clubs you'd expect on that list
Glasner is supposedly eager to return to Austria, I wouldn't rule out Hoffenheim making a change after the season. Mainz and Bielefeld both sacked their coach already.So - how many 1. BL clubs will be starting 2021-22 with the same coach as 2020-21? Union Berlin, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg, Freiburg, Hoffenheim, Mainz? Maybe Bielefeld?
Yeah, I was thinking afterwards that I vaguely remembered something for Mainz as well.Glasner is supposedly eager to return to Austria, I wouldn't rule out Hoffenheim making a change after the season. Mainz and Bielefeld both sacked their coach already.
Add Werder Bremen to the list. They recently confirmed that Kohfeldt won't be sacked.So - how many 1. BL clubs will be starting 2021-22 with the same coach as 2020-21? Union Berlin, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg, Freiburg, Hoffenheim, Mainz? Maybe Bielefeld?
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The media was reporting that they had board meetings and meetings with the player council about his future. Usually that spells the end, but I guess this time was different.Add Werder Bremen to the list. They recently confirmed that Kohfeldt won't be sacked.
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I guess the rumour was based on Werder Bremen being dragged back into a relegation battle, so that makes sense. Still, I know if there's anyone better than Kohfeldt currently available.
Hi there. Good call there and i am surprised that Nagelsmann is ready to jump ship so soon. I expected him to stay for at least one more year.Hello
Not a call....ITK information.Hi there. Good call there and i am surprised that Nagelsmann is ready to jump ship so soon. I expected him to stay for at least one more year.
and regarding a transfer fee: coach is more important than a single player so Bayern will pay up. they are probably on good terms with Leipzig as well.
Krösche?Not a call....ITK information.
If you are interested then i can tell you who will be the new "Sportdirektor" at Bayern.
I am interested!Not a call....ITK information.
If you are interested then i can tell you who will be the new "Sportdirektor" at Bayern.