German football is turd

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Bundesliga version of oil clubs.
oh, thanks. I didn’t know that. I thought there was a rule in German football that no one could own more than 49% of a club? Leaving the 51% to the fans? Or have I just imagined that?
 

stefan92

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oh, thanks. I didn’t know that. I thought there was a rule in German football that no one could own more than 49% of a club? Leaving the 51% to the fans? Or have I just imagined that?
They cleverly created a club that only consists of RB Management as members to circumvent that rule
 

strongwalker

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That's wrong though. Dortmund hasn't sold a player to Bayern since Hummels. That's probably almost a decade by now.
Bayern went from weakening opponents by buying their best players on to weakening them by selling them (back) shit players, (a system invented by United) to weakening them by making them hire shit players and managers. devious bastards.
 

TheLord

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I am happy that Havertz will destroy the German national team after perfect destruction of Chelsea. I don’t know what qualities the managers see in him to hand him a starting place in any proper team, leave aside in elite teams.
 

stefan92

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Let’s be honest, all bar one should have the Leverkusen face.
No, because that is based on the CL group stage and only Leverkusen exited the CL, all four other teams are still in the CL.

Regarding the bump today: It's funny as Germany-Japan was a match where most standout players are playing for BL clubs
 

amolbhatia50k

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Flick killed them by subbing Musiala and especially Gundogan. The latter had the ball on a string. Was he injured or something?
 

GhastlyHun

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For a second i thought i made some outlandish claim of how well Germany would do at the WC, with all these quotes out of the blue :lol:
 

U99ted

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No, because that is based on the CL group stage and only Leverkusen exited the CL, all four other teams are still in the CL.
I know that, but the others (except BM obviously, maybe BVB) will be gone soon enough.
 

stefan92

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I know that, but the others (except BM obviously, maybe BVB) will be gone soon enough.
Funny. While I agree on Bayern, I would bet much more on Frankfurt than on Dortmund. Sad that we will have to wait so long to see who is right...
 

kouroux

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I am happy that Havertz will destroy the German national team after perfect destruction of Chelsea. I don’t know what qualities the managers see in him to hand him a starting place in any proper team, leave aside in elite teams.
Some players are a mystery like that, whether it's reputation or good behavior, they just are rewarded weirdly with playing time
 

KeanoMagicHat

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I am happy that Havertz will destroy the German national team after perfect destruction of Chelsea. I don’t know what qualities the managers see in him to hand him a starting place in any proper team, leave aside in elite teams.
It’s not a mystery that Havertz plays often, he’s got the exact profile modern managers like - good technical ability and awareness, and he’s tall. But it’s almost like then they forget that a striker is supposed to score goals and actually make decisive impacts on the game… Havertz rarely does that these days.
 

WeePat

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Is this about German players or the Bundesliga?
For the integrity of the current bump in process, let’s say it’s just about the German players. Let’s ignore all of those Bundesliga based Japanese players.
 

Maluco

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Everything could look very different after another match day. Germany were the better team today and lost because of poor decisions in game.

It’s far too early to make any calls about any team.
 

Acrobat7

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For the integrity of the current bump in process, let’s say it’s just about the German players. Let’s ignore all of those Bundesliga based Japanese players.
Thanks for stealing my argument. :nono:
 

Zehner

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It’s not a mystery that Havertz plays often, he’s got the exact profile modern managers like - good technical ability and awareness, and he’s tall. But it’s almost like then they forget that a striker is supposed to score goals and actually make decisive impacts on the game… Havertz rarely does that these days.
I mean, it's not exactly as if Havertz has much competition. In form he offers the best package upfront but I agree that this current Havertz isn't enough of a threat. I want to see Moukoko since he's already quite a complete package both with and against the ball but I can understand why Flick doesn't start somebody who just turned 18 a few days ago.

That aside, I think people are panicking a bit. Germany was the better team and usually you win such a game. Bit unlucky and silly defensive mistakes. I also hope Flick learned to not sub Gündogan off, he's vital for control. And Musiala should also have stayed on longer - he's by far the best chance creator we have.
 

WeePat

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I mean, it's not exactly as if Havertz has much competition. In form he offers the best package upfront but I agree that this current Havertz isn't enough of a threat. I want to see Moukoko since he's already quite a complete package both with and against the ball but I can understand why Flick doesn't start somebody who just turned 18 a few days ago.

That aside, I think people are panicking a bit. Germany was the better team and usually you win such a game. Bit unlucky and silly defensive mistakes. I also hope Flick learned to not sub Gündogan off, he's vital for control. And Musiala should also have stayed on longer - he's by far the best chance creator we have.
Do you think Havertz can actually be a good player at this level as a striker? He had a little purple patch last season when Tuchel benched Lukaku, but he's in his 3rd season in the PL now, other than a couple of flashes of brilliance and a purple patch, it's difficult to defend the massive flop allegations.
 

KirkDuyt

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I dont feel I'm in a position to shit on German international football.

Neither are the English really :wenger:
 

Zehner

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Do you think Havertz can actually be a good player at this level as a striker? He had a little purple patch last season when Tuchel benched Lukaku, but he's in his 3rd season in the PL now, other than a couple of flashes of brilliance and a purple patch, it's difficult to defend the massive flop allegations.
I mean, in principal he has all the tools. His finishing was always one of his stand out qualities, he's also very tall and a great header. He reads space very well and knows how to position himself. For a striker he obviously has extraordinary technique and passing. But at the time of his move, I still would have said his by far best position is as an 8 with license to attack the box. So I don't really know to be honest. It is a completely different position than what he played for us. But from what I've heard, he had some great games as a (false) 9 at Chelsea as well so his issues might have nothing to do with his position. My impression is that he has all the tools to excel in various positions but just lacks the "mental intensity" currently since he drifts in and out of games too much.
 

Righteous Steps

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I mean, in principal he has all the tools. His finishing was always one of his stand out qualities, he's also very tall and a great header. He reads space very well and knows how to position himself. For a striker he obviously has extraordinary technique and passing. But at the time of his move, I still would have said his by far best position is as an 8 with license to attack the box. So I don't really know to be honest. It is a completely different position than what he played for us. But from what I've heard, he had some great games as a (false) 9 at Chelsea as well so his issues might have nothing to do with his position. My impression is that he has all the tools to excel in various positions but just lacks the "mental intensity" currently since he drifts in and out of games too much.
Yes he’s too nice and passive like Sancho, you need intensity to truly be a great player in the PL, especially when you don’t have great athletic qualities, intensity is what separates good from great players and why I’ve in the past probably had one or two discussions with you about Sanchos failings despite his technical ability.
 

Zehner

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Yes he’s too nice and passive like Sancho, you need intensity to truly be a great player in the PL, especially when you don’t have great athletic qualities, intensity is what separates good from great players and why I’ve in the past probably had one or two discussions with you about Sanchos failings despite his technical ability.
I don't think this has anything to do with EPL or not. The way you describe it it sounds a little bit as if the EPL was a different sport to European football but it really is not. Intensity helps you in the EPL the same way it helps you in other leagues. If England is indeed more physical, then this is by choice, not by necessity. Every requirement to be especially physical is a perceived one, IMO.

Moreover, I don't find Sancho and Havertz comparable. Sancho had it incredibly difficult because United was pretty much the antithesis of the Bundesliga. Rich but no overarching strategy, no distinct style of play, outdated infrastructure and training philosophies, etc. etc. Chelsea was nothing like that and hired a top coach known for his tactical insight shortly after Havertz' arrival. Havertz also doesn't look low on self esteem either. With him, it is the next step in his development he needs to make, with Sancho the issues seem much more sincere since he looks several levels worse than in his best seasons.
 

Righteous Steps

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I don't think this has anything to do with EPL or not. The way you describe it it sounds a little bit as if the EPL was a different sport to European football but it really is not. Intensity helps you in the EPL the same way it helps you in other leagues. If England is indeed more physical, then this is by choice, not by necessity. Every requirement to be especially physical is a perceived one, IMO.

Moreover, I don't find Sancho and Havertz comparable. Sancho had it incredibly difficult because United was pretty much the antithesis of the Bundesliga. Rich but no overarching strategy, no distinct style of play, outdated infrastructure and training philosophies, etc. etc. Chelsea was nothing like that and hired a top coach known for his tactical insight shortly after Havertz' arrival. Havertz also doesn't look low on self esteem either. With him, it is the next step in his development he needs to make, with Sancho the issues seem much more sincere since he looks several levels worse than in his best seasons.
Agree with your first paragraph actually, intensity helps you in every league but I do feel like even more so in England which for me has a lot of the best athletes in world football alongside probably France.
 

Zehner

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Agree with your first paragraph actually, intensity helps you in every league but I do feel like even more so in England which for me has a lot of the best athletes in world football alongside probably France.
But there are many ways to deal with athleticism, you don't have to best your opponents in terms of strength or pace. Relative to the distribution of money in world football, the EPL actually performs quite underwhelmingly in UCL and UEL. So in general, the less athletic teams seem to cope with the higher physicality quite well without going down the same route.

Intensity is something different, IMO. Be fully aware in all situations and don't switch on autopilot, try to get involved and don't get out of touch with the match, do the easy things right instead of becoming lazy in the execution, etc. I believe many young players struggle to keep up this kind of concentration/focus for 90 minutes, even if the technical, physical and game reading abilities are already there.
 
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