Bayern fans simply blame Klinsmann and accept that he was a shit appointment who cost us Hummels and almost Müller and Badstuber as well. Also, our centerbacks were never as big a problem as United's midfield.
Germany at World Cup 2014
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Don't steal my four player axis theory
. I came up with it after the Algeria game when everyone else was all doom and gloom about our chances.They should be individually good enough to do it, so I still have hope, but they need to step up now in the upcoming games and Hummels needs to stop being injured or sick or whatever
We're also due a great game, it wouldn't be atypical if we scraped through the tournament for large parts and played two great games to win the damn thing.
I didn't think Gotze did badly in the first few games?Every game confirms my impression that this is finally a real German team again, which seems a bit strange because after years of praise for the new technical generation, all our wizards pretty much suck, Kroos got turned into a hard working CM and we fight it out on the pitch and win it through setpieces just like we did in the good old 80's.
A few comments on the game and the development of the team:
General play:
I thought it was really fascinating how our style changed after we scored. We were clearly set up to dominate the midfield and control the game through possession but the players dropped back and defended deep after taking the lead. I'm not sure if that really was the plan, but it looked like the players wanted it that way, because we weren't dominated by the French midfield at all, we were just happy to let the French attacking players have the ball around the penalty box. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if a few of the players actually started to manage the team themselves and ignore Löw's tactics or at least force him to adjust to their strengths. Sounds harsh, but even during the last 3 weeks Löw has made so many contradictory statements again that I just can't give him credit for well thought out decisions. I said before the start of the tournament, that the players should be good enough to have a shot at the title despite the failings of the coaching staff and as long as he doesn't hurt us by starting with the completely wrong players, we can make it.
Goal:
Neuer
Defense:
Höwedes looked much more comfortable yesterday in that deep defensive line-up and I like the idea of 3 centerbacks and one fullback in the back four, because set-pieces are so crucial in the World Cup and the additional height is way more important than a 2nd attacking fullback in my opinion. I really hope we keep that back four now until the end. Boateng and Hummels fit together perfectly as a centerback pair, way better than Mertesacker and Hummels. Leaving Mertesacker out of the game was a huge decision for Löw, he was always one of his favourite players and I'm sure no one expected that to happen, especially because Mertesacker actually played a good tournament so far. It's another reason why I could see players at least influencing Löw's decisions.
Midfield:
I really really like that 3 man midfield. Not a big fan of Khedira, but with two hardworking CMs next to him, his energy really helps and even though he often looks clueless on the ball, his movement into space is really good and causes problems for our opponents. In the 4231 his runs constantly exposed our defense, in this 433/4321 team, they don't. No changes there from here on please.
Attack:
Klose shouldn't start another game. Müller is simply the better striker than him at the moment and while 36year old Klose lacks the necessary power to be effective against top defenders at the start of the game, he's a brilliant impact sub against tired legs for the last 20 minutes of the game. Also if we have to chase the game late in the match, we need the possibility to bring another striker onto the pitch to build up pressure. Müller was again our only great attacker, but he had to do so much work, defending, carrying the ball forward, that he couldn't impact the game in the final third. With Özil's and Götze's horrible form, we really should start with Müller upfront and give him a bit of a free role, so that we don't lose too much attacking quality. Schürrle and one of Götze or Özil should start the next game. It will be a tough battle against Brazil, definitely not a pretty game and I'm not sure either of Götze or Özil can handle that. Can't see Draxler getting game time in the semifinal and I'm not sure if Podolski is any better in a physical game than Özil.
Overall, it's been a great tournament so far, even though it wasn't pretty. It's totally different to the last two and it looks like we have the right mentality to beat Brazil at their homeground, which is in a one off knockout game more important than winning in style. You don't beat Brazil in Brazil with beautiful football.
I'd say he had a good game against Portugal, scored the first goal against Ghana but didn't do much else in that game, benched against the US and was dowright shit against Algeria. Overall there isn't much between his and Özil's tournament performance so far. Both worked harder for the team than I expected them to do but both failed to shine with individual brilliance so far. It's really not enough if you look at their potential.
He was decent against Portugal, very good against Ghana, dreadful against the US and France and did ok against Algeria. He's obviously horribly low on confidence at the moment though.
You do realise that at that time Bayern had a horrible Demichelis (never seen a player more error prone in my life than him at that time) and the utterly slow van Buyten as their starting CB formation? Let alone Breno who failed to deliver any given time. Since personal planing is not done by the coaches at Bayern, it was one of the stupidest transfer decisions ever taken by Bayern and it can't be blamed exclusively on Klinsmann.
Hummels did improve himsef a lot though a few years ago people didn't expect him to become this good.
Performances over the course of the tournament so far:
Good:
- Neuer
- Hummels
- Boateng
- Muller
- Schurrle (somewhat)
Mediocre:
- Khedira
- Lahm
- Kroos
- Klose
Bad:
- Ozil
- Gotze
- Mustafi
- Howedes
Kroos borderline bad. I don't like anything about him other than his right foot tbh.
Good:
- Neuer
- Hummels
- Boateng
- Muller
- Schurrle (somewhat)
Mediocre:
- Khedira
- Lahm
- Kroos
- Klose
Bad:
- Ozil
- Gotze
- Mustafi
- Howedes
Kroos borderline bad. I don't like anything about him other than his right foot tbh.
Nonsense. In Hitzfeld's last season, Demichelis and Lucio were an outstanding centerback pair and the team set a new record for fewest goals conceded. Then Klinsmann took over. Hummels struggled with injuries in 08/09 while he was on loan at Dortmund and Klinsmann was a huge part of the decision to sell him for good during the winterbreak instead of convincing him to come back at the end of the season, when the loan was over. A stronger manager wouldn't have had any problems to convince the board to sell one of Lucio or Demichelis and build around a young talented centerback like van Gaal showed only a few months later with Badstuber. Klinsmann fecked it up, it's really that simple.
I believe they also had Lucio. Demichelis had one fantastic season and with him, Lucio and van Buyten Bayern decided to only 'promote' one youngster: Badstuber. They rated Badstuber over Hummels and there was no second spot in the team.
I don't think Badstuber played any role until van Gaal came along. To a certain degree Hummels suffered from us spending so much money on Breno and he probably was prefered over Hummels to protect the investment. Still, a strong manager definitely could have kept Hummels and showed him a good perspective to become an important player within the next 2 years.
Just blaming Klinsmann is nonsense. You really hate him. 
Hoeneß and Rummenigge had way too much influence; bayern havent done any transfer decision without them agreeing.
It was primarily about Breno. They bought him for about 10m and were still convinced, that he´ll be the next big thing.
Hoeneß and Rummenigge had way too much influence; bayern havent done any transfer decision without them agreeing.It was primarily about Breno. They bought him for about 10m and were still convinced, that he´ll be the next big thing.
you are a bit over the top. In hindsight its always easy to be a smart ass. At this time it was reasonable to rate Breno higher than Hummels. So it wasnt "one of the stupidest transfer decision ever taken by bayern", even so the decision was wrong.
how about we shift the ongoing debate into a more fitting thread..
it's pretty much off the topic.
it's pretty much off the topic.
I think Löw made the right calls in the last game. Gives me hope for Brazil. Neymar out is going to be tricky, though. I keep thinking they're weaker, but I've seen teams come back from such a blow with a vengeance.
Badstuber got his professional contract in March 2009 - same time as Müller. He probably would not have gotten it when Hummels was still around. Bayern used to stick one or two young ones to the professionals each year - but that was more alibi as they seldom or never got playtime and usually left after a year. Schweinsteiger and Hargreaves in 2001 and 2003 were the only exceptions. (I do not count the Contentos or Ottls or Bayern youth players that were bench players). Schweinsteiger was somehow Hoeneß' pet and Hargreaves got into the team in a time when they could not act different and immediately had a monster performances against Luis Figo.
Lahm got loaned and came back as player of the German team.
Not Hitzfeld, Magath nor Klinsmann or any other coach gave youth a chance.
Hummels just was another player in that series - a top club having an academy as some kind of alibi without really giving much young ones a chance. Van Gaal changed that.
ya that's kinda obvious because Kroos has actually been one of Germany's best performers and is atm the only reliable player in midfield.
Seriously where are our resident Germans who were criticising Loew before the tournament?
Decent win.
Löw out though. Those last 2 minutes were terrible.
Löw out though. Those last 2 minutes were terrible.
Said if Germany were to win the whole thing they'd have to improve on what they showed in the group stages. Think it's safe to say they're on the way to doing that. If Netherlands get past Argentina I'll be rooting for them but if not, Germany all the way. A world cup well deserved if they manage it. I'm still in disbelief at what we've just seen. It will be one of those 'where were you when..?' moments.
They won the match tonight, great. But you saw how the opponent played? great job but germany has to make the impossible against Argentina or the Netherlands. This will be a different story.
Sorry I don't get this...what do you mean by making the impossible?
To win the cup
Löw is an average coach in my opinion.
Löw is an average coach in my opinion.
Here! I still criticise him. If he takes Özil & Höwedes off I would stop to criticise him and support him
But he didn't do everything wrong
I love their style. Fantastic football, I really think they're not getting praise they deserve. Dominant, calm, effective. It's either them or Messi.
I'm here and it's not like Löw has been flawless this World Cup. (4 CBs, Lahm DM, Mustafi playing thrice, Volland not in the squad, static CM lineup) Tonight was special though obviously. Crazy we got to the final with all these players missing. Prior to tonight I'd have considered our general play this World Cup so far poorer than what we're used to, the results have been good though. All that said, none of the other teams have really been that impressive if we're being honest (not trying to be cocky here and say Germany has been, just saying even without being at their best, teams like Brazil, Argentina, and Germany managed to reach the semis).
Great performance by the players, and I will say one thing: I'm glad Löw didn't auto pick Schweinsteiger and Khedira as CM pairing this World Cup! Was time for Kroos to play a major role and Löw finally gave him that role.
Müller, Kroos, Hummels, Neuer have been our top performers if you ask me. What a central axis.
As convincing and dominating the victory was they'll have to keep their cool on the final as they've shown in recent years convincing and getting so close often and losing it on the semi/final.
Perfect time to break their duck, though. Their morale can't be any higher than it is right now.
Perfect time to break their duck, though. Their morale can't be any higher than it is right now.
I think most of that is understandable.
-Volland has literally no experience on the big stage, Germany is stocked in his position and he didn't look that great in the friendly.
-Lahm played DM for Bayern and did really well there for the most part, add to that the fact that both Schweinsteiger and Khedira came back from injuries - so I think it's reasonable that Lahm started on that position, especially since the twins and Gündogan are injured atm.
-The 4 (or later 3) CB thing looked bad vs the small teams, but I think it worked well vs Portugal/France and today (as well as Höwedes setting up Klose vs Ghana). So while I didn't like it at first I think it proved to be reasonable at the end.
-Why he kept playing Mustafi I don't know. Maybe he sees a lot of potential in him, maybe he was trying to get him ready for the later stages..
-Not sure what you mean with static CM lineup, we probably had the best midfield of the tournament thus far.
Called it, one more to go
Here I am. And I stand to my point: If we don't win the whole thing then it is only because of loew. The fact that he keeps playing oezil is just nuts. In case it works we will down to history as the only team ever won the world cup with 10 men and one ballet dancer, who rarely showed up.
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Özil plays as there is no decent competiton for him. Götze did not really look better. Schürrle is a more direct type and the perfect sub for the team if Klose comes of and Müller plays striker. Schürrle never really clicked in that team when he started. Draxler in this moment is not better either. If Reus would be available it would be different.
I'd say Draxler. In case it doesn't work bring on Oezil, or Schuerrle.
.
And Germany plays without Marco Reus.
Greetings from Dortmund
Greetings from Dortmund
It would be a big shame now if they dont go onto win it.
The obvious downside is that whoever Germany will face in the final, they will sit very deep. And that will mean a very boring final, potentially.
Nice call there, wasn't as optimistic myself.Called it, one more to go
Also, to imagine Reus taking Özils spot - wow.
Holland won't.
you bet?
I swear, you are a fecking psychic of something.Called it, one more to go
So yeah, just got back home and I´m a tiny bit drunk so don´t expect some deep analysis here.
I´m just so proud for the lads. Today/Yesterday we played like what we are: the strongest and most balanced squad in the tournament. For the first time we were not dependent on single players to make it work. No Neuer, who needed to save our ass time and time again, no Hummels, who held the back line together and scored vital goals, no Müller as the single goal threat in the front. This time every player brought their A-game or at least close to it. If we manage to do it in the final aswell, we will win the thing.
At some point, and I say that as one of his most vocal critics, Löw simply deserves some credit for that aswell. He will never be part of the absolute coach elite for me, because he simply lacks the really outstanding abilities for that, but most of his ideas worked out in the end. Even Höwedes looked like a proper LB this game. He at least did a good job in creating a working chemistry within the team. In terms of atmosphere this team feels like a unit. It does lack the absolute feel of a perfectly working machine teams like Bayern or Dortmund often show, who could beat opponents simply with collective strenghts, but this is probably also an expectation a national team can hardly fulfill.
In the end he might succeed in making the strongest squad in the competition champion and this will be enough.
sphaero, what's your pont?