And yet no one had thought of doing it prior to Ed so there's obviously some kudos to him for getting this enormous revenue generation that has stopped all talk of crippling debt and no value in the transfer market.
Get a Director of Football in NOW.
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That's exactly why your first two sentences are not really accurate. It all depends on how a club is set up. I also doubt that most football managers mind working with a DoF - if not appreciate it! Most are in fact used to it. It all depends, however, how qualified the DoF is, how the responsibilities are split and how decisions are made. For example no player would be brought in against the wish of the manager.
IMO there's not a single convincing reason these days to not have a DoF. It's, as everywhere in business, to get the structure right - and the appropriate person bringing the box in the organigram to life.
No! No! No! We would never have any managers they would all quit. He just pisses them off.
Moyes was appointed on Woody's watch. That makes him his appointment. Unless he opposed the decision to defer to SAF, and was overridden by the Glazers, he's responsible.
A decision which produces failure is, by definition, a bad decision. The choice of new manager is Woody's job, not the fans, Redcafe or the media. He has to carry the can if things go wrong.
He was overridden by the Glazers who gave SAF the full responsibility of choosing the manager. There were some articles that discussed this and which is why when it came to sacking Moyes Woodward never consulted SAF or any other director but went in above them. He's responsible for LvG though.
Well the context of the OP was a replacement for Woodward's responsibilities - player recruitment and coaching staff. I didn't say most managers would refuse to work under a DoF, I said most managers would refuse to work under a DoF who does nearly everything except matchday tactics and training. So I'll repeat, most would have no problem with a DoF who gets involved in player recruitment and youth setups - that makes sense. Someone who basically takes care of everything yet ultimately takes zero responsibility would be a nightmare to work under - look at Michael Emenalo at Chelsea with Jose Mourinho. How many times have we heard managers complain about players they didn't want or players they asked for but the DoF didn't even try to get? I'm all in favour of a DoF type role to ensure continuity, manage the youth setup and to instill a common ethos in the club. I would be dead against a DoF who effectively takes the majority of powers from Woodward and the manager while taking next to none of the responsibility. What manager would want to operate under those conditions?
No. Moyes was already decided to be hired by the time Woodward took charge.
Pep as DoF, Mourinho as coach. Keep Giggs to run the U21s and Van Gaal can be a barman or something in the board room
It was reported that he was against Moyes appointment.
@GeneralGattuso
I don't get why any DoF should be free from taking responsibility for his job while having the powers. That defies logic and if clubs are set up that way, it's plain wrong. I also stressed above that it's key to get the right set up and that while the DoF should be IMHO the main driver, he must not bring in any player the manager (or head coach to be more exact) doesn't want. That's not even a question. Equally needless to say that a manager/head coach should not just be a dedicated servant to the DoF - but I'm all against too powerful managers/head coaches as their tenure at clubs will be - in the vast majority of cases - far shorter as compared to the DoF (in a well organized and run club that is). Therefore, I prefer a powerful DoF in collaboration with a head coach who fits to the brand of football and ideally also ethos of a club.
I don't get why any DoF should be free from taking responsibility for his job while having the powers. That defies logic and if clubs are set up that way, it's plain wrong. I also stressed above that it's key to get the right set up and that while the DoF should be IMHO the main driver, he must not bring in any player the manager (or head coach to be more exact) doesn't want. That's not even a question. Equally needless to say that a manager/head coach should not just be a dedicated servant to the DoF - but I'm all against too powerful managers/head coaches as their tenure at clubs will be - in the vast majority of cases - far shorter as compared to the DoF (in a well organized and run club that is). Therefore, I prefer a powerful DoF in collaboration with a head coach who fits to the brand of football and ideally also ethos of a club.
Nope. Moyes was announced on 9th May.
Woody took over on 30th June.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-chief-executive-david-gill-to-leave-position
Get your facts right.
I love the way the Caf gets a firework up its arse sometimes and decides it knows exactly what the club needs.First it was a meltdown that we needed to clear out the dead wood; and it sort of happened. We got rid of Fletcher, Cleverley, Hernandez, Nani, Vidic and Ferdinand. We got worse.
Get Klopp in now! Said the Caf. The season before he almost got relegated with Dortmund.
Then it was to make bigger signings, and this actually happened too! We spent more than City. We didn't improve.
'Stop with 3-5-2. Play the diamond formation' - this one was like an obsession. Every game, every thread, diamond this, diamond that. We finally switched to the 442 diamond. We didn't improve.
Now it's a DOF
- everywhere you turn in here somebody's going on about it. I think you've built it up too much in your minds, like appointing a DOF will suddenly have us playing like Barcelona and signing all the best players.There's no silver bullet to fix this guys, other than maybe sacking LVG - but even then it will time to get the squad playing proper attacking football again.
It needs to be clear, no one think that a change of manager or the appointment of a DOF will suddenly improve everything, what is wrong with some fans who just wants to turn against fellow fans for absolutely no good reason, you know exactly why people are behind the DOF concept.
First it was a meltdown that we needed to clear out the dead wood; and it sort of happened. We got rid of Fletcher, Cleverley, Hernandez, Nani, Vidic and Ferdinand. We got worse.
Get Klopp in now! Said the Caf. The season before he almost got relegated with Dortmund.
Then it was to make bigger signings, and this actually happened too! We spent more than City. We didn't improve.
'Stop with 3-5-2. Play the diamond formation' - this one was like an obsession. Every game, every thread, diamond this, diamond that. We finally switched to the 442 diamond. We didn't improve.
Now it's a DOF
There's no silver bullet to fix this guys, other than maybe sacking LVG - but even then it will time to get the squad playing proper attacking football again.
Forget about Champion League cup or BPL cup, the only cup that our CEO cares is Indian Noodle cup with Manchester United logo on it .
All this waffle is the very point of a forum. It is the internet no-lifer version of chatting in the pub. In reality, almost all on here would be terrible at any sort of football management. But that has never stopped any TV pundits from chatting shit.
First it was a meltdown that we needed to clear out the dead wood; and it sort of happened. We got rid of Fletcher, Cleverley, Hernandez, Nani, Vidic and Ferdinand. We got worse.
Get Klopp in now! Said the Caf. The season before he almost got relegated with Dortmund.
Then it was to make bigger signings, and this actually happened too! We spent more than City. We didn't improve.
'Stop with 3-5-2. Play the diamond formation' - this one was like an obsession. Every game, every thread, diamond this, diamond that. We finally switched to the 442 diamond. We didn't improve.
Now it's a DOF
There's no silver bullet to fix this guys, other than maybe sacking LVG - but even then it will time to get the squad playing proper attacking football again.
What measures do you set for a DoF's performance? Match results? That often leads to conflict with the manager. Recruitment is difficult to judge apart from results and tactics. Youth? Player retention? Possibly but that's over a very long term. It's a difficult role to judge and it's easy to shift blame, I think Liverpool actually have the right idea by splitting it out between a few people, a Managing director, the manager, head of recruitment and head of player performance and analysis - as much as that's derided, it's an effective way to run things without stepping on the managers toes. In my opinion the manager is the face of a club, he carries the most responsibility, when things go wrong - everyone blames the manager. As Fergie said, the most important person at the club is the manager, it's only fair they have the biggest influence on how things are run - not that they should be a dictator or have everything run the way they want it but if you want them to be the most successful then they need the power to do it.
Well, whomever it is they need stringing up - never air your dirty laundry in public. A war being waged in the press like this is super damaging for the club. Someone is obviously only thinking of themselves and not the good of the club. Nor do I suspect they give a shit to us the supporters.
For the love of God they need to chill out man - it's not helping the situation.
Yeah, who cares about respecting Fergie. The club should have imposed a director of football on him because he couldn't be trusted to plan for the club's long-term future. And of course he'd just bend over and take it too, because he loved having his authority challenged. Smooth and sensible indeed.
In hindsight, Fergie didn't leave the squad in the best of shape, but, imo, his biggest mistake was underestimating just how big his influence on these players was. He was most likely being genuine when he thought we had a good squad for the next manager, but he was viewing it through the eyes of one of the greatest managers to have ever worked, not through the eyes of Moyes or LvG. And the suggestion that a DOF would have left the club in better shape is based on the assumption that DOFs don't make mistakes themselves.
If Fergie can't understand that the club needs to prepare for life without him then something is really wrong with him, I'm fairly sure that he is a lot smarter than that.
Also what about respecting the club? Fergie isn't bigger than United.
You know there could be something in that.
I'm fairly certain that Fergie genuinely thought he had left the whole club in a great position and couldn't have imagined how things have turned out since. And Fergie isn't bigger than the club, but why challenge his authority and risk him upsetting him with a DOF when he was doing a sterling job without one? Who knows how it would have turned out if we went down this route? Perhaps it would have all been smooth sailing - he would have carried on winning things and we'd be well prepared for his departure. Or perhaps he would have quit and we would have gone through our current decline a lot earlier.
Seems like another idea popping up on the back of two terrible choices in manager, one that everyone lambasted other clubs for whilst we had a competent manager in charge. The best managers are always going to want majority control when it comes to selecting the players to be brought into the club. How about we just get a quality manager in and support him?
For every club that runs successfully with a director of Football there's a couple that run dreadfully. The last thing we need at the moment is another excuse as to why the manager can't successfully attain the goals of the club.
For every club that runs successfully with a director of Football there's a couple that run dreadfully. The last thing we need at the moment is another excuse as to why the manager can't successfully attain the goals of the club.
My. We are that desperate for a change huh?
Won't happen in a million years as his surname may as well be Glazer but Woodward needs fecking off from his current position. Leave managerial decisions, transfers etc to people who know what they're doing and let him get on with sponsorships.
I'm also an advocate for a director but I'm also aware that it's not necessarily a precursor to success,you still have to hire the right man of course. Liverpool's fortunes haven't exactly turned around and Spurs recently let go of Baldini who seemingly wasted a good chunk of that Bale money. Saying that though I still want one for United because A) not having one just seems like too much of a variable in the way we do things (unless as it is possible that United have clear roles for the various heads, the powers that be. At times you can't help feel people are calling shots on the fly behind the scenes and I'm thinking of Woody here) and B) for the selfish reason of making feel better about our processes. I don't like the power we still give managers like we're searching for that next figurehead ala SAF which to me seems unrealistic.
anyting that gets Woodward out of the football role, is good.
however, a DOF wont work in United - we need Woodward to step aside and concentrate on the commercial side and get in a football club CEO or chairman like Gill was or Levy for Spurs.
however, a DOF wont work in United - we need Woodward to step aside and concentrate on the commercial side and get in a football club CEO or chairman like Gill was or Levy for Spurs.
The entire Cafe is against me on this point, so, while this might normally mean that I was right, I accept that in this case I'm probably wrong.
One of the few times I wish The Sun are right about something.Tweet
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MANCHESTER UNITED are looking to appoint a director of football strategy in a bid to revive their failing Academy.
The Red Devils youth set-up is in disarray, while down the road, Manchester City go from strength to strength.
United are conscious they could fall further behind their neighbours unless they act quickly.
And one of the names mentioned as a possibility to fill the new role is FA guru Dan Ashworth.
The new man’s focus will be on getting more homegrown youngsters into the first team — like the famous Class of ’92.
Their Under-21s may still win their title but there are deep concerns about the younger groups.
See I have two problems with this type of statement (and I'm not suggesting you personally think this way but) the class of 92 was a freaky, once in a lifetime thing, to even suggest you can produce one with any kind of regularity is madness.
The main thing with young age groups is that they are nowhere near maturity. Players who are awful or seem likely to drop out might suddenly develop (I'm sure there was a study on this recently) so to say "our academy is in a complete state because the kids look poor" is crazy. If the article was suggesting that our academy was not getting proper funding, the facilities were behind the times and the coaching wasn't up to scratch, then fair enough but the ability level of kids is a poor judge of an academy.
I don't understand this thread. Ed is a good business man but he fail at football because he refuse to sack the manager. Solution is hired a director of football. Will the DOF sack LVG?
Jeez can the people at United stop being so insular? Like the people at the FA are doing such a stellar job
MANCHESTER UNITED are looking to appoint a director of football strategy in a bid to revive their failing Academy.
The Red Devils youth set-up is in disarray, while down the road, Manchester City go from strength to strength.
United are conscious they could fall further behind their neighbours unless they act quickly.
And one of the names mentioned as a possibility to fill the new role is FA guru Dan Ashworth.
The new man’s focus will be on getting more homegrown youngsters into the first team — like the famous Class of ’92.
Their Under-21s may still win their title but there are deep concerns about the younger groups.
Our national game in the shit and we want to hire someone from that regime? Why can't they look further afield? We need someone who's also got vision along with the requisite knowledge and organisational skills. Not another FA flunkey that talks pr crap but actually does nothing to effect the game in a positive way.