Christ what? If you can't see they play similar roles and have similar attributes then you need to look again.
Granit "The Hacker" Xhaka | Likes his reds
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I don't think anyone will disagree. Pogba is a more advanced playmaker. Think that's obviously his best role where he can impress himself into games.
I'd question if Xhaka is a better passer and playmaker though as said earlier. Pogba is more complete.
Of course they won't, because I'm right.
Pogba has never played the holding role for United. He is always next to Carrick or Herrera who play as the holder.
Imo Xhaka does not have the brain to control a game. He is an undisciplined destroyer with a nice left foot. Blind is the better player.
Pogba started oscillating between brilliant and poor, but has settled into producing excellent peformances consistently. He's been our best player for a bit now.
Xhaka might potentially be a good playmaker but all i read is that he's been alright/is being easwd in, which is obviously not comparable to what Pogba has produced. Neither are his efforts prior to this season to be fair.
Like Gerrard and Lampard, I don't consider Pogba a playmaker but like them he has great end product. For me the ultimate playmakers are Xavi, Pirlo, Ozil and Scholes. All continually passing, moving, making space for others and stretching play. Pogba like Lamps and Gerrard is more 'all action' Roy of the Rovers, individual goals and hollywood passes. I don't consider that to be a playmaker. Where as Xhaka is in the Xabi Alonso mould of dictating play from deep while protecting the defense. There's 3 very different roles there.
I consider him a playmaker as all our play is channelled through him. He switches play from side to side and also looks for the killer pass. In addition he has end product.
I'd have him in the advanced playmaker bracket.
Xhaka is limited due to his lack of mobility in my opinion.
United will continue to struggle if Pogba remains the chief playmaker of the side, he doesn't have the mentality for it yet. Maybe he will grow into the role eventually.
To be fair, he's involved in mostly all of our good play and, if our forwards had had their finishing boots on, he'd surely be leading the assists chart. He's not perfect by any means but I think he's done very well considering, and is the least of our worries at the moment.
What sounds better to the lullards among us though, world's most expensive flop or integral driving force behind the majority of our attacks?
T'is the way of football, though! I can't blame them for using our form as a chance to take a dig at Pogs - even if it is through no fault of his own.As long as Paul continues to initiate so many of our good attacks and be amongst our best performers we have no reason to worry despite what the rest of the footballing world deem good enough from him. He'll have another off game eventually and it'll be the end of the world for some, but it's natural. There's just too many positive signs to feel any sort of worry about him.
No one has called him a flop.
Though you can't possibly argue he's playing like the most expensive player of all time. But it's early days and there is plenty of time.
I personally hate seeing Pogba used as a 10. He is best as an 8 and he showed it time and again in Juve's double 8 system. As for Xhaka, like Pogba he isn't yet fully used to the pace of the EPL game. That is why he keeps looking a few seconds off the pace. But trust the ability is there. But patience is needed to see it shine. Just remember Ozil in his first 10 months.
This is very wrong. Because of Pogba United are in the top for chances created, in spite of him still developing as a lot play maker. Currently pathetic finishing is why we are struggling. Not who is our playmaker. We have missed nearly 2/3rds more clear cut chances than any side in the league.
I remember when statements like this made by Arsenal, Liverpool and City fans were laughed at on here. Add to that the claims of ref bias, super goalie efforts and bad luck on top of it...
Well obviously those last three are ridiculous but clear-cut chances are subjective to say the least. You would need to show these missed chances and where they were (not) taken, along with who made them to get a clearer picture.
From the games I've seen this season there's no doubt Pogba can create chances for himself and others, I don't think that's been in question. IMO his game is alot like Gerrard and Lampard's. But he will need a playmaker behind him like Carrick or Pirlo to bring the best out of him.
Two Arsenal fans have said it to me in the past week alone. I've also seen it on Facebook through Football Bible (my own fault for liking the page in the first place).
Of course there is going to be intense scrutiny and expectation given the transfer fee but that cannot dominate the narrative when assessing his performance in a fair way.
I'd also say there's a rather depressing culture that exists whereby opposition fans seem to actively want budding players for opposition teams to 'flop'. I'm not talking about you directly, I'm sure it applies to fans of Utd just as much as anyone else. Could be explained by the higher sense of expectancy that follows Utd around that makes it feel more pronounced as a Utd fan though.
Well they're on a WUM I'd say. You should get them to sign up here, they'd fit in with half the idiots that post thesedays.
You can't call a player a flop after not even half a season has elapsed. They also must have short memories given the dog's abuse that Ozil wrongfully received after his fast start and injury issues with us. Maybe they're just paying some of that back as I imagine they heard that from other opposition fans back then.
How deluded must you be to actually think Xhaka is better than Pogba.
Why anyone is comparing Pogba and Xhaka is beyond me. They aren't even the same type of players ffs.
The quality is there but Xhaka needs more time. There are litterally 100s of players that needs time to settle in the premiership so I'm not sure why it suprises people anymore. Lets not forget it took him time to settle in Mönchengladbach as well. When he did he become probably their best player. I'm sure that whoever is dismissing him right now will have quite an different opinion of him in two years time.
The quality is there but Xhaka needs more time. There are litterally 100s of players that needs time to settle in the premiership so I'm not sure why it suprises people anymore. Lets not forget it took him time to settle in Mönchengladbach as well. When he did he become probably their best player. I'm sure that whoever is dismissing him right now will have quite an different opinion of him in two years time.
wish we had signed him in the summer, closest thing to a Carrick around at the moment, needs time to adjust at Arsenal but have no doubt he will be a superb player for them, as for the argument's about Pogba i think they would work well together, both have different strengths to there games.
I'm sorry but claiming clear cut chances are 'subjective' is pure bs. Its up there with claiming chances created is not a valid statistic. Besides, if you want to find out who they were created against and who missed them, those are statistics are there too. Fact is United are being killed by their awful finishing. That is why they have dominated their last 4 games, yet have only reaped 4 points. You are not wrong to say Pogba has ways to go to be lead playmaker. But playmaking and chance creation is truly the least of the problems facing United. Currently United are in the top 3 with the worst chance to goal conversion rate in the league. Yet their are in the top 3 in chances created stakes. That is the mountain they and Mourinho have to surmount to salvage anything from this league season. Bad finishing can never be cured by playmaking
I'm pretty sure there were stats floating around recently saying Pogba has had our most touches, most passes and most chances created. He's quite clearly our main playmaker and he's a lot better at it than Xhaka's shown so far. He's absolutely pivotal to our play.
I don't even believe the poster you replied to has watched our matches bar maybe against Arsenal as if he had, he'd realise that aspect of our play is probably our strongest point and it's our finishing that is causing us to struggle.
I suppose that when you're the most expensive signing in the world, people will come for your head unless you perform miracles, as seen in this thread.
Ideally we would have a top deep lying playmaker next to Pogba, yes. Although Xhaka himself hasnt proven this season that he is that.
But back to us and if you actually watch us this season, barring the odd few games, weve been really good in central midfield. Herrera has been absolutely brilliant in the deep role, Carrick has begun to play a big part and Pogba after a start involving extremes, has been excellent. It's the front three that is very poor barring Ibra when he isnt missing easy chances.
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This, because we are struggling everyone assumes everyone is shit amd everyone isnt good enough. Valencia, Carrick, Herrera, Pogba, Mata have all been brilliant recently however. Ibra, Rashford, Martial, Lingard deserve most of the blame.
Agreed. Fully worth the investment for me.
Peak Diaby > Pogba
Diaby had a peak? When was that? Those 3 games he managed consecutively in 2010?
30+ in 2010 was it? No, I was referring to 2012/13 when he was streets ahead of anything the world record man has produced till now.
Bollocks, you do know that Pogba is a world XI player? Far better than anything that guy could have ever dreamt of, Pogba was quite brilliant for large periods at Juventus, last season his best imo where he transformed from highlights to actual performances.
Following your lead and introducing random names to a player specific thread, gents. The last two pages have been a key example of why discussion is next to impossible here.
Peak Anderson > Peak Diaby
I'm sure he could've found someone who plays a similar role who isn't one of the best midfielders of his generation. It's silly over hyping.
What all 15 games he played that season?
Xhaka didn't do much deep playmaking this evening when he came on then?
I understand what a playmaker is, and I never referenced end product. Pogba's has not been great for us. Even by your narrow (but actually broad) definition, Pogba fits the mould of playmaker. Pogba does all of those things well, except arguably control the pace of a game.
I've seen Xhaka at Arsenal so far and been underwhelmed. When he does what you say at a high level and with consistency, we can talk about maybe him being 'better' than Pogba, even adjusting for their positional differences. But until then, such statements will always cause me to
I stand by what I said, Xhaka will improve with time to develop and adapt to the league. He will, likely, prove his worth. But as of now, let's have some patience with him.
I have followed Xhaka since his Basel days, and I rate him highly.
I have to say his Arsenal's performances so far have been very lukewarm.
I have to say his Arsenal's performances so far have been very lukewarm.
Great display from Xhaka - putting in tackles and spraying some brilliant passes through the defence from deep too, releasing runners. 96% pass accuracy, you could even say it was a very DLP-esque performance.
This away from home, against a team in reasonable form after they earned a draw at OT in their last league game.
This away from home, against a team in reasonable form after they earned a draw at OT in their last league game.
Yeah but Walcott was shit. Let's pick on him now.
Walcott has been shit for years. Not that fun anymore.