Greenwood vs Haaland

[troylocker]

Vinicius Jr 19: 3 full La Liga seasons averages 3 goals each season, or 83 matches 9 goals. Cost £40m

Joa Felix 20: 58 matches 13 Goals. Cost over £100m

Kulusevski 21. 74 Matches 14 goals. Cost £35m

Halaand 21. 133 matches 93 Goals. Stats at the age of 18 39 matches 14 Goals many of which were in the second and 3rd division of Norway.

Greenwood 18, 66 matches 18 goals cost free.
You might not see it now. But the generational talent is Greenwood. If both were same age, people would much rather Greenwood. The age difference is only 3 years and by the looks of things it won’t take Greenwood 4-6 seasons to become a 20 plus goals a season striker. Other than “the grass is always greener on the other side” there is no need for a marquee striker when Cavani goes.

This is probably one of the funniest and most inaccurate posts I've ever read.

I'll consentrate on Haaland and Greenwood:

Greenwood is born in 2001, Haaland in 2000. Difference in age: 14 months and 11 days. Hardly 3 years that.

The stats:

Haaland:

Norway
The stats you are reffering to from Norway - He played 50 matches (2643 minutes totally) for Molde. He scored 20 and assisted 6 for Molde in Tippeligaen (top division), Europa League Quals and the Norwegian cup. No goals from from second or 3rd division. None! He became a regular starter the last season he was there and in the 2018 season he made 30 apps (2000 minutes) and scored 16 and assisted 5 in tippeligaen and in EL-qualifiers as a 17 and 18 year old. So he averaged a goal contribution every 102 minutes on the top level in Norway as a 16, 17 and 18 year old. He played his last Match for Molde at 18 years and 3 months. Where are you getting your info from? He did play for Bryne in the 2016 season as well (in the 2 division in Norway) as a 15 and 16 year old, and he played 16 matches there (0 goals in 422 minutes).

Salzburg (mostly as a 19 year old as he didn't get many chances there under Rose the the first half year he was there) So he pretty much played half a season as a 19 year old for them:
27 matches (1613 minutes) in all competitions (Austrian Bundesliga, domestic cups and Chamions League) - 29 goals and 7 assists. A goal contribution every 45 minutes!!
8 goals and 1 assist in 374 minutes of Champions League football, a goalcontribution every 42 minutes playing for Salzburg in the CL!

Dortmund (half a season as a 19 year old and up til now, just turned 21):
62 matches (5097 minutes) in all competitions (Bundesliga, domestic cups and CL) - 62 goals and 18 assists. A goal contribution every 64 minutes!!

The season he turned 19 (2 and a half months older than Greenwood was last season):
40 matches in Austria, germany and CL (2751 minutes) - 44 goals and 10 assists (10 goals and 1 assist in the CL). A goal contribution every 51 minutes.

The season he turned 20 (the season Mason has just started):
41 matches in Germany and CL (3540 minutes) - 41 goals and 12 assists (10 goals and 2 assists in the CL). A goal contribution every 67 minutes.

Haaland since he left Norway (Salzburg and Dortmund combined:
6710 minutes played - 91 goals and 26 assists - 57 minutes per goal contribution!!

Mason:

Man United reserves and youth teams at 16-18 years old:
47 matches (3726 minutes) - 44 goals and 12 assists. A goal contribution every 67 minutes.

Man United:
The season he turned 17:
4 matches (118 minutes of PL and 3 minutes of CL) - 0 goals or assists
The season he turned 18:
49 matches (2592 minutes of PL, cups and Europa League) - 17 goals and 4 assists. A goal contribution every 123 minutes.
The season he turned 19 (last season)
52 matches (3149 minutes of PL, cups, CL and EL) - 12 goals ands 6 assists. A goal contribution every 175 minutes.

Mason as a CF for Man United all competitions:
31 matches (1954 minutes of PL, cups, CL and EL) - 8 goals and 3 assists. A goal contribution every 178 minutes.

Mason for Man United since he was promoted to the first team:
106 matches (5949 minutes) - 30 goals and 10 assists - a goal contribution every 149 minutes

Please explain it in accurate details how Greenwood is the generational talent and why at the same age people much rather would have Greenwood.

Lucky for us that Greenwood plays better at RW than as CF, so they can both play in the same lineup.

 

[Lj82]

Mason is a great prospect. I would love it if he turns out better than Haaland. But even he does indeed become better, I still want Haaland in the team.

 

[reelworld]

Haaland would be first choice if he was at United.

Probably..
If he did, he most likely scored less goals as well.

 

[reelworld]

Wait, why do people bringing up Haaland goal record in Norway and Austria? I thought those leagues doesn't count.

 

[moodyred]

We need to replace Cavani next year. So yes. Haaland would be ideal.

 

[Wilt]

Don’t see how this can even be a question.

Pitting a good, promising player ….against as I see it, a freak of nature, goal scoring machine. Players like Haaland come along once in a blue moon.

Cometh the hour, buy him ….if necessary sell everything, just get him!

 

[Solius]

It's an easy decision imo.

Haaland is as close as you can get to a sure thing. Mason will still get plenty of games and he will either turn out to be better or worse than Haaland as a striker. If he's better, then Haaland becomes an amazing back-up/leaves. If he's worse then we have a WC striker in Haaland and Greenwood can still play on either side of the front three.

 

[11101]

I don't see how this is even a question.

Greenwood has the potential to be a very, very good player. World class even, if he's lucky.

Haaland on the other hand is the best young striker I've seen since R9.

 

[Kaos]

Solskjaer himself said it best - "who says I want Mason to be a centre forward?"

In an ideal world Haaland comes in to replace Cavani, not Mason, Rashford or any of our more 'wide' forwards. Having a pool of world class forwards is something we should look to build, not simply settling on what we have hoping they reach their respective heights.

 

[Marwood]

It's an easy decision imo.

Haaland is as close as you can get to a sure thing. Mason will still get plenty of games and he will either turn out to be better or worse than Haaland as a striker. If he's better, then Haaland becomes an amazing back-up/leaves. If he's worse then we have a WC striker in Haaland and Greenwood can still play on either side of the front three.

I've mentioned this a few times but its definitely not an easy decision. A big name will leave if Haaland comes. I'm not saying therefore we shouldn't get Haaland but that will be the outcome.

Folk take a snapshot from the past, like Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Ole, as proof you can keep that many happy. But they forget Cole and Sheringham left because they weren't getting game time.

You can try and rotate this many big names, you might get away with it for a season or two but ultimately guys of this profile want to start. At least one of the current bunch would leave.

 

[Solius]

I've mentioned this a few times but its definitely not an easy decision. A big name will leave if Haaland comes. I'm not saying therefore we shouldn't get Haaland but that will be the outcome.

Folk take a snapshot from the past, like Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Ole, as proof you can keep that many happy. But they forget Cole and Sheringham left because they weren't getting game time.

You can try and rotate this many big names, you might get away with it for a season or two but ultimately guys of this profile want to start. At least one of the current bunch would leave.

But you can still then say you've got the best outcome. The best players are the ones that rose to the top i.e the starting XI every week.

If a player isn't good enough to compete with that then it's not the level we strive to be at.

I adore Greenwood and I'm 100% sure he will spend his entire career with us and be very successful but if we had the opportunity to have better players in every single position he can operate in then why would we turn that down? Sentimentality only gets you so far.

I don't think that will happen, though. He's far too talented.

 

[Marwood]

But you can still then say you've got the best outcome. The best players are the ones that rose to the top i.e the starting XI every week.

If a player isn't good enough to compete with that then it's not the level we strive to be at.

I adore Greenwood and I'm 100% sure he will spend his entire career with us and be very successful but if we had the opportunity to have better players in every single position he can operate in then why would we turn that down? Sentimentality only gets you so far.

I don't think that will happen, though. He's far too talented.

Yeah I get what you're saying and ultimately the club comes first. Plus getting Haaland would be amazingly exciting.

But what if it meant losing Rashford? It's feasible and that's why I don't think its an easy decision.

 

[crossy1686]

Solskjaer himself said it best - "who says I want Mason to be a centre forward?"

In an ideal world Haaland comes in to replace Cavani, not Mason, Rashford or any of our more 'wide' forwards. Having a pool of world class forwards is something we should look to build, not simply settling on what we have hoping they reach their respective heights.

Yep, this.

Solskajer wants something akin to Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez in terms on interchangeability between the forward line. If Haaland is available for the right price we should sign him seeing as Cavani is probably leaving after this season and the jury is still out on Martial

 

[Red Royal]

As much as Haaland is an amazing talent, we meed to fix the CM/DM role first; dealing with Raiola is just painful to think about!

 

[Solius]

Yeah I get what you're saying and ultimately the club comes first. Plus getting Haaland would be amazingly exciting.

But what if it meant losing Rashford? It's feasible and that's why I don't think its an easy decision.

It would mean he's not up to the level.

Would be extremely difficult and I'm sure we'd want to keep him as back-up in that scenario but if he wanted to leave, what could we do? Play an inferior player just because of the type of person he is?

It sounds harsh but that's football. I felt awful when Welbeck left but it was the right decision for both club and player.

 

[Sultan]

Very different players.

Most of Greenwood's playing time has been spent playing wide. I personally don't think he's a striker in the traditional sense at holding up the ball with his back to the goal and bringing players into play. Due to not playing much centrally, I'm also not sure of his ability to get in positions to score those essential easy tap-ins and his heading prowess. He has also been easily shaken off the ball by defenders stronger than himself. This will obviously be remedied as he gets stronger with age. Mason's best assets at the moment are his clinical finishing, quick feet, equally good with both feet and his pace.

To answer the thread starters question it's absolutely vital we keep developing Greenwood and also get a striker in like Haaland as they both provide different options. It would be too much pressure on young shoulders to take all the responsibility at this age. Besides, one striker is not enough with the number of games played in a season.

 

[Kaizane]

For me, it's not so black and white. It would be nice to have Haaland but we'd have to tear up the wage structure to get him and that would only be his first contract, not mentioning the pay rises he'll want thereafter. There's only two teams that can realistically afford him and we know who they are. Chelsea went after him knowing full well they wouldn't get him, it was nothing more than a PR exercise on the back of their CL win to appease the fans when they ultimately landed Lukaku, so they could say "at least we tried". Also looks good when your club is linked with the best players. The cynic in me thinks it's exactly the same for us.

If United is serious about restructuring and changing the way we do things, then as gutting as it is, we shouldn't be going after him. The risk of him coming in and unsettling the good dynamic in the team that Ole is building is not worth his goals and we should be chucking every available resource we have to turn Greenwood into a world-class goalscorer because 100%, the potential is there.

 

[Wilt]

For anyone who feels we’re are happy as we are and don’t necessarily feel he could fit in….

Seem to be overlooking the fact that he is the best since Ronaldo and importantly, if Utd sign him, means he won’t be playing for City, Chelsea, Liverpool.

 

[reelworld]

Very different players.

Most of Greenwood's playing time has been spent playing wide. I personally don't think he's a striker in the traditional sense at holding up the ball with his back to the goal and bringing players into play. Due to not playing much centrally, I'm also not sure of his ability to get in positions to score those essential easy tap-ins and his heading prowess. He has also been easily shaken off the ball by defenders stronger than himself. This will obviously be remedied as he gets stronger with age. Mason's best assets at the moment are his clinical finishing, quick feet, equally good with both feet and his pace.

To answer the thread starters question it's absolutely vital we keep developing Greenwood and also get a striker in like Haaland as they both provide different options. It would be too much pressure on young shoulders to take all the responsibility at this age. Besides, one striker is not enough with the number of games played in a season.

I think many underrate Greenwood because he's not fully developed physically yet. IMO, once he got older and stronger he'll be a world class forward injury permitting. One thing that Haaland is way ahead of him is that Haaland is already have a man body, hence he can compete better physically with defenders. But in terms of talent as a striker and footballer, I don't think there's not much difference between the two.

 

[bosnian_red]

Haaland replacing Cavani is a great balance within the squad. Rashford, Sancho, and Greenwood will still primarily rotate on the wings. It would hurt Martials gametime the most who would then mainly rotate on the left with Rashford while Greenwood and Sancho rotated (but realistically, would leave as it's a bit too crowded and he wouldn't get meaningful minutes).

Also the type of player Greenwood is, I think it'll take a while for him to find that top level consistently and become a starting 11 fixture. Will be more a form player coming in and out of the starting 11 or off the bench until then, so Haaland doesn't change that much. It's a good transition, like RvP at Arsenal having a role like that or partnering Henry until Henry left (which would be Haaland here).

 

[kaNNz]

After this season no one will be able to move out Greenwood from the starting eleven, and you can print that!

 

[Alfie092]

Haaland in this United team you would feel he would get at least 30-35 goals if he was to come next season.

Let's see what Mason can do, I don't feel as of yet he can get those numbers... I may be totally wrong. Haaland and Mason are phenomenal finishers, I think Haaland just has the edge and has more variety in his goals and is more of a physical presence. Mason is technically better on the ball. Both you feel would reach the very top and stay there for several years.

I don't think we should choose between one or the other and instead look to bring Haaland and have more options. We can still play Greenwood on the right or we could try 2 up top? In the modern game it's also important to have quality depth in the team and getting Haaland in more than definitely gives us that.

We are 2-3 players away from having a truly super team which I feel would complete us and Haaland is one of those players that we need.

 

[lex talionis]

Yep, this.

Solskajer wants something akin to Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez in terms on interchangeability between the forward line. If Haaland is available for the right price we should sign him seeing as Cavani is probably leaving after this season and the jury is still out on Martial

Hammer on nail.

If it's doable to bring in Haaland next summer we simply must do so. As for Martial, the jury is out -- we know about the talent, but the application of that talent has always been the question.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

AND Greenwood is playing out of position for most of that as RW

Exactly, also he’s not even been a guaranteed starter yet and has been competing against the likes of Cavani, Martial, Rashford, James, and now Sancho etc. Whereas others, most notably Halaand, has pretty much been the the focal point of his last 3 teams and regular starting CF.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Yep, this.

Solskajer wants something akin to Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez in terms on interchangeability between the forward line. If Haaland is available for the right price we should sign him seeing as Cavani is probably leaving after this season and the jury is still out on Martial

This is something people don’t get about CF like Halaand. Yes he will score goals, but when everything is focused around him it’s easy for top teams to nullify. And when he’s marked out of the game it’s impossible to then expect others to just score.

Much rather have a fluid front three that each score 15-25 a season, that should be the aim to get Greenwood, Rashford/Martial and Sancho each scoring 15-25 a season once Cavani leaves.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Haaland scored 13 goals in Bundesliga at the age of 19 while Mason scored 7 in EPL at the age of 19.

Isn't that ignoring that Mason has been playing in the PL for 2 years while Haaland scored 13 goals in basically 2 months worth of football (before COVID put a stop to the season) ?

 

[SoCross]

I went for option 3 but why isn’t there an option saying - why not both!

But in all seriousness, in his last great team (2006-2008), Fergie’s undisputed starting 3 were Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez. As much as I love Berbatov to bits, him coming in disturbed that balance.

Right now Bruno is our certain starter.
Leaves open three positions - Rashford, Mason, Sancho seem to be what we are betting on long term as our undisputed starting three. Adding Haaland to that mix will disturb this balance. All four will want to start every game. Yes competition blah blah but can’t deny that the squad balance will be disturbed.

I think Ole will see if Mason can play CF and then decide if he wants a genuine world class striker or a top midfielder.

 

[zenith]

They would be amazing as a pair in a 4-4-2

 

[RedIan]

Room for both next season, cavani will be gone imo… I’d happily offload martial for Haaland too.
atm Haaland is way ahead of mason.

 

[tjb]

They would be amazing as a pair in a 4-4-2

Ironically, Greenwood's best position from looking at how he plays would be as a second striker.

Haaland would be nice, but I don't see the fit. Not necessarily on the pitch, but generally for the club. Our wage structure doesn't allow us to pay a player 1m per week which is apparently what he's demanding. For me, as good as he currently is, I also think his talent is overstated due to how young he is now. You pay players based on what they are producing, Lewandowski is the best striker in the world currently ( the two aliens don't count) and his wages are nowhere near that figure. There is every chance that in terms if talent Haaland never surpasses prime Suarez or current Lewandowski. What if he simply becomes/stays as good as the current Harry Kane. Is that worth destroying our wage structure for? He's not going to be Messi or Ronaldo. He's not a guarantee like Ronaldo was in 2009 for Madrid. People act like his agent doesn't make a difference, but it does. We've already witnessed the blowback of dealing with this agent, we have also seen the result of what wages can do to a club even the size of Barcelona, why would we put ourselves in that type of situation?

 

[RedDevilPure]

It has been a while since we made a proper marquee signing so hope we get this one right. Will be sickening if reports are to be believed that he will go to Liverpool.

 

[Highfather_24]

Ironically, Greenwood's best position from looking at how he plays would be as a second striker.

Haaland would be nice, but I don't see the fit. Not necessarily on the pitch, but generally for the club. Our wage structure doesn't allow us to pay a player 1m per week which is apparently what he's demanding. For me, as good as he currently is, I also think his talent is overstated due to how young he is now. You pay players based on what they are producing, Lewandowski is the best striker in the world currently ( the two aliens don't count) and his wages are nowhere near that figure. There is every chance that in terms if talent Haaland never surpasses prime Suarez or current Lewandowski. What if he simply becomes/stays as good as the current Harry Kane. Is that worth destroying our wage structure for? He's not going to be Messi or Ronaldo. He's not a guarantee like Ronaldo was in 2009 for Madrid. People act like his agent doesn't make a difference, but it does. We've already witnessed the blowback of dealing with this agent, we have also seen the result of what wages can do to a club even the size of Barcelona, why would we put ourselves in that type of situation?

I completely agree. We still would need a striker though. Martial and Cavani will leave.

 

[Sayros]

However sensational Haaland has been, there should be some pause over his wage demand and the fact that he is in a league tailor-made for his characteristics. Let's be clear, I think he will score anywhere in the world on any level, as he's clearly shown in the CL, but even the CL stats require some context and we've seen Haaland stopped before. In England, I don't see him keeping up his goal/min average which is absolutely insane right now and I truly believe is unsustainable, but man is it fun to watch him play and he would absolutely light up Old Trafford. If he's really looking for 1 million a week wage, I would say he should feck off somewhere else. He hasn't won anything, in the biggest games he's been stopped and unable to drag his team to the finish line, he still has a lot to prove and to already demand that kind of money (and again, it could be media BS) is a little premature.

 

[tjb]

I completely agree. We still would need a striker though. Martial and Cavani will leave.

Martial wouldn't leave until next season, same with Cavani. Amad is coming through for one of the attacking slots. We can get a good striker like Andre Silva or someone of that ilk coming in at goof waged for 30-40m to compete with Greenwood. With Rashford as a third choice striker. Worst case scenario, Greenwood heavily rotates with him and you get a combined 30 goal season ( approximately 15 goals each). Best case, Greenwood continues his ascent and becomes a 20 to 30 goals per season striker or even better, with the new striker backing him up.

 

[Daniel_de_Foe]

The thing with Haaland's numbers is, teams like Salzburg and Dortmund operate in a way that incentivizes getting the max out of assets like Haaland.

That's not the case for Greenwood. At Utd Greenwood isn't the star, and we're more concerned with his development than anything else. If he was at a functional German club which needed to turn him into a 100M asset, I'm sure his numbers would be a lot better than they currently are.

Saying that, Haaland is currently better than Greenwood by most metrics, but who knows how it will be in future should Haaland move to a different team/competition with a different way of operating.

That`s is a very strange assumption. I would argue all clubs in all team sports operate in a way that give their best players the most time to develop into even better players. It could be to sell them on a higher profit, or to hold them to win fame and glory. The reason all these youngsters at Dortmund are playing is because they are significantly better than the established players. If Bellingham wasn`t better in his role than Delaney and Can, he wouldn’t play.

I cannot say anything about Greenwood, he seems like a young pacey striker with a clinical finish.
But a while ago I stumbled into an interesting piece in a German tactic blog that describes a reason why Haalands finishing is so good beside his good technique. Haaland never seems to shoot from bad angles. Normally as a CF you tend to cross the Box in a diagonal way to avoid direct pressure by the defenders. Then your shooting angle tend to be quite bad and most of the time the keeper can save the shot. Haaland tries to deliberately cross the pass of the defender when he is running at the goal to get in a better shooting position. In a situation where every other player would be satisfied with his position any shoots, Haaland takes extra risks to maximise the output. If you look at the highlights, there are almost no lucky goals past the keeper from bad angles.

 

[sp_107]

Haaland is a beast who can win you tittles. He can make the difference and he can become like what Benzema is for Madrid over a decade.

 

[Polar]

I think many underrate Greenwood because he's not fully developed physically yet. IMO, once he got older and stronger he'll be a world class forward injury permitting. One thing that Haaland is way ahead of him is that Haaland is already have a man body, hence he can compete better physically with defenders. But in terms of talent as a striker and footballer, I don't think there's not much difference between the two.

Impact and quality isn’t only about technical skills: example innate physical skills and personal character (winning mentality, presence, authority) example Bruno, Haaland, Kane, Zlatan.

It’s something special with Haaland’s physical robustness, killer instinct and hunger which make him unique. He is a world class CF today, probably top 3 together with Kane, Lewandowski or Benzema.

Greenwood will likely become a world class CF, but I’m unsure he has what it takes to be the nr.1 CF. I struggle to see his leader talent or authority on the pitch. I think that’s needed to go all the way (Ballon d'Or)

 

[He'sRaldo]

That`s is a very strange assumption. I would argue all clubs in all team sports operate in a way that give their best players the most time to develop into even better players. It could be to sell them on a higher profit, or to hold them to win fame and glory. The reason all these youngsters at Dortmund are playing is because they are significantly better than the established players. If Bellingham wasn`t better in his role than Delaney and Can, he wouldn’t play.

Due to the influx of German "hipster" managers, a lot of German clubs have been adept at extracting 110% from their talented players in a way that I don't see other leagues emulating (at least not until the likes of Klopp, Tuchel, Hassenhutl etc migrated to the PL).

In Austria Haaland's coach was Marco Rose, while at Dortmund it was Lucien Favre (and now Rose again); two coaches who are famed for having those qualities. So it makes sense to me that his stats should be taken in that context.

And remember that Dortmund in particular are quite good at showcasing their attacking talent. It's the same with Sancho. No one is expecting him to hit 15 goals and 15 assists in the league this season even though he's more mature and theoretically he should be improving on his numbers. And it's because we understand the teams operate differently, the leagues operate differently, and it's a different environment.

I don't say any of this to diminish Haaland btw, like you said he's by far the best option for Dortmund, and to me already on the cusp of world class. But I doubt he's operating at anything less than 100% of his capacity, whereas I don't think we're seeing the absolute best of what Greenwood could offer right now. If their situations were swapped, I would say the same.

 

[eire-red]

Let's see how Greenwood does this season. The PL is a completely different animal to the Bundesliga, from a physical and mental POV. Werner is the prime example.

If Greenwood can hit 20 goals this season, then I think he's proven enough to be trusted to lead the line and we should focus our efforts on a top GK and top CM. If Greenwood struggles, then with Cavani leaving, I think Haaland looks more like a priority.

Having said that, you don't just let opportunities to sign generational talents like Haaland pass you by. It's a hard call, given the difference in quality of opposition both players face, style of play and physical differences.

Haaland was ready for senior football physically at 18, Greenwood probably wasn't, but was still talented enough to slot in. Given Greenwood's style of play, he might not show his true ceiling until 21/22, who knows? Potential is not linear, so I don't see the point in comparing seasons at similar ages. Where was Lewandowski at 18? Did anyone see what Ronaldo was capable of at 18?

 

[lex talionis]

It's fair to argue that young Erling may not perform as well in England than he has in Germany, but it's also fair to argue that he could match or even exceed his exploits in Germany to date.

If we're told that if we want him that it will cost 1m/week that's a pretty good reason to let him go to PSG -- but then again, how does that work with Messi, Neymar and Mbappe? But if we bring that down to a more manageable 500k/week it would be hard to argue we shouldn't go in for him that because we already have Greenwood.

It's not as though we've been tearing up the PL and CL the last few seasons.

In fact, I'm actually surprised City haven't gone in for Haaland this summer. If they're willing to spend 100m on Kane, surely they should be willing to spend 150m on Haaland right now. And for 150m, Dortmund would take it. Or is it an open secret within the the inner sanctums of top clubs that it's really only down to United and PSG (Real and Barcelona are in financial chaos and there's no chance Bayern will stump that kind of cash for any single player)?