Grenfell firemen didn’t save people because of their skin colour

[golden_blunder]

according to Stephen Lawrence’s mum

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...mother-claims-firefighters-tackling-grenfell/

 

[esmufc07]

Disgusting and abhorrent thing to say and she should apologise.

 

[mariachi-19]

feck me. I know a few firies and the last thing I would ever say is that they are people who discriminate...

The reality is there is seldom the fire department could do about Grenfell. I dont mean to sugar coat it, but the cladding on the outside of the building literally is more flammable per kg than a kg of petrol. These people were literally living in the equivalent of a petrol soaked match stick...

 

[FlawlessThaw]

This is the quote:

"Had that been a block full of white people, they’d have done everything to get them out as fast as possible and make sure that they did what they needed to do," she said, in an interview with Channel 4 News last week.

 

[Sweet Square]

feck me. I know a few firies and the last thing I would ever say is that they are people who discriminate...

The reality is there is seldom the fire department could do about Grenfell. I dont mean to sugar coat it, but the cladding on the outside of the building literally is more flammable per kg than a kg of petrol. These people were literally living in the equivalent of a petrol soaked match stick...

Labour MP had the correct take

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The residents of Grenfell burned to death because of a political ideology that see working class people as non human. They were working class and therefore they were not worth listening to.

Disgusting and abhorrent thing to say and she should apologise.

This.

 

[ZIDANE]

The Grenfell Tower inquiry report, expected to be released later this month, is expected to severely criticise the brigade’s response to the tragedy.

I'm not close to it but this will be interesting and may have led to the 'institutional racism' type claim by somebody who experienced it many years ago, no doubt supporting those residents who may be claiming the same.

A major thing to say though especially for those emergency services that entered the building and did what they could on the ground.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Surely not.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Moronic statement that does more harm than good.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Fantastic thread title if you're an aspiring tabloid writer.

 

[711]

Disgusting and abhorrent thing to say and she should apologise.

Well said. Glad you got in first.

 

[Tarrou]

Excuse my ignorance but were the majority of victims black?

I had just assumed it would be a mix of races as you'd typically see in the North London area

 

[Wibble]

I'm sure she is wrong and it would have been much better not said or reported but I guess when you have your kid murdered by racists and the police not really giving a shit aoiut it for a long long time you might well see institutional racism even when it isn't there.

 

[SteveJ]

The Grenfell Tower inquiry report, expected to be released later this month, is expected to severely criticise the brigade’s response to the tragedy.

This way for the distraction from the people who are actually to blame, folks!

 

[SalfordRed18]

Excuse my ignorance but were the majority of victims black?

I had just assumed it would be a mix of races as you'd typically see in the North London area

Not to be pedantic, but it's west London.

 

[Tarrou]

Not to be pedantic, but it's west London.

Ah sorry, yeah. No idea why I thought that.

 

[Cheesy]

This way for the distraction from the people who are actually to blame, folks!

I'd be interested to say what it is the report is blaming specifically - whether it's logistical elements of how the response was handled vs the actual firefighters who attended the blaze.

Because from the context of the original quote which started off the thread, it seems to imply the firefighters themselves delayed their response or didn't give it their all due to the people they were saving, and I don't think that's fair; by all accounts the crews who went to the scene did an admirable job given the circumstances. Which is very different from, say, higher-ups within the force not ensuring they had adequate equipment to deal with a tower block fire like the one they were called to, if that's something the report (potentially) refers to.

 

[The Boy]

Labour MP had the correct take

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The residents of Grenfell burned to death because of a political ideology that see working class people as non human. They were working class and therefore they were not worth listening to.

This is absolutely right.

Working class people especially those from diverse backgrounds are not, treated in the same way at all. This is down to a political system and media that make sure that this stays this way.

I’m sure the firemen who attended did all they could, though I can’t blame Mrs Lawrence for being suspicious of any institution after the way her family has been treated.

But I’m also sure that had it been a white middle class block of flats, that the worries and complaints made before the fire would have been listened to and gained more traction and this wouldn’t have happened. But they weren’t, they were working class from all sorts of different backgrounds and nobody in any position of authority gave a shit.

 

[SteveJ]

This is absolutely right.

Working class people especially those from diverse backgrounds are not, treated in the same way at all. This is down to a political system and media that make sure that this stays this way.

I’m sure the firemen who attended did all they could, though I can’t blame Mrs Lawrence for being suspicious of any institution after the way her family has been treated.

But I’m also sure that had it been a white middle class block of flats, that the worries and complaints made before the fire would have been listened to and gained more traction and this wouldn’t have happened. But they weren’t, they were working class from all sorts of different backgrounds and nobody in any position of authority gave a shit.

As I've often posted before now, nothng changes in Britain:

Hillsborough father was told to 'shut your f*cking prattle', court hears

Trevor Hicks, whose two teenage daughters were killed in the crush at Hillsborough on 15 April 1989, was told to “shut your f*cking prattle” when he called on a senior police officer to help as the disaster was unfolding, a court has heard.

 

[Rams]

I'm sure she is wrong and it would have been much better not said or reported but I guess when you have your kid murdered by racists and the police not really giving a shit about it for a long long time you might well see institutional racism even when it isn't there.

Indeed, why is it necessary to print the story? The Firemen aren’t racist. The Torygraph on the other hand...

 

[Drainy]

Indeed, why is it necessary to print the story? The Firemen aren’t racist. The Torygraph on the other hand...

It's exactly the kind of story you'd expect. Divide and conquer while the Tory council and the private contractors are laughing as they get away with it again.

 

[Sweet Square]

It's exactly the kind of story you'd expect. Divide and conquer while the Tory council and the private contractors are laughing as they get away with it again.

100% this.

 

[SteveJ]

Yeah, this angle was entirely predictable.

 

[noodlehair]

I'd be interested to say what it is the report is blaming specifically - whether it's logistical elements of how the response was handled vs the actual firefighters who attended the blaze.

Because from the context of the original quote which started off the thread, it seems to imply the firefighters themselves delayed their response or didn't give it their all due to the people they were saving, and I don't think that's fair; by all accounts the crews who went to the scene did an admirable job given the circumstances. Which is very different from, say, higher-ups within the force not ensuring they had adequate equipment to deal with a tower block fire like the one they were called to, if that's something the report (potentially) refers to.

If they had followed the rules and procedures for fighting a fire technically none of them would have entered the building to try and save anyone in the first place. Their oxygen was running out before they could get far enough in the building to be of use so they were going in without masks on and only attaching them when it got to a stage they were struggling to breathe.

There is also no equipment anywhere in the world that would have helped them fight the fire from the outside or get people out. Their tallest ladder is 18m while standard ones are 11m. The fire on the outside was spreading faster than it could be contained and the outside of the building was also rainscreened which means it's not only extremely flammable but also shields itself from water.

The big issue seems to be with the stay put policy and whether it should have been rescinded sooner, but the problem there is there was only one stairwell and it was smoke logged. The fire brigade also can't get in to the building to help people or fight the fire if the stairwell is clogged up. The idea of the stay put policy is to evacuate in phases, which works fine when the building itself does it's job in containing the fire. In hindsight they should have rescinded it sooner but this as an unprecedented situation so it seems ridiculous to lay the blame with the fire brigade rather than the massive issues with the building itself.

If the government listened to people like the fire brigade every building like Grenfell would have 2 or more staircases and a sprinkler system installed, and those two things would more than likely have prevented anyone dying and possibly even stopped the fire before it spread to the outside.

There's also obviously been some major failings within the building itself for that many people to have died. Either the compartmentation has failed or the protection to the hallways and stairs hasn't worked. The fire brigade turn up to a fire like this expecting the building to do its job and being trained in accordance with that.

I know I sound like I work for them but it really winds me up how there see nd to be some organised attempt to shift some of the blame on to them. I know from my day to day work that they are literally the only ones, even post Grenfell, who take stuff like this seriously and put people's life safety as a first priority. Every one else involved is primarily thinking about money.

 

[esmufc07]

If they had followed the rules and procedures for fighting a fire technically none of them would have entered the building to try and save anyone in the first place. Their oxygen was running out before they could get far enough in the building to be of use so they were going in without masks on and only attaching them when it got to a stage they were struggling to breathe.

There is also no equipment anywhere in the world that would have helped them fight the fire from the outside or get people out. Their tallest ladder is 18m while standard ones are 11m. The fire on the outside was spreading faster than it could be contained and the outside of the building was also rainscreened which means it's not only extremely flammable but also shields itself from water.

The big issue seems to be with the stay put policy and whether it should have been rescinded sooner, but the problem there is there was only one stairwell and it was smoke logged. The fire brigade also can't get in to the building to help people or fight the fire if the stairwell is clogged up. The idea of the stay put policy is to evacuate in phases, which works fine when the building itself does it's job in containing the fire. In hindsight they should have rescinded it sooner but this as an unprecedented situation so it seems ridiculous to lay the blame with the fire brigade rather than the massive issues with the building itself.

If the government listened to people like the fire brigade every building like Grenfell would have 2 or more staircases and a sprinkler system installed, and those two things would more than likely have prevented anyone dying and possibly even stopped the fire before it spread to the outside.

There's also obviously been some major failings within the building itself for that many people to have died. Either the compartmentation has failed or the protection to the hallways and stairs hasn't worked. The fire brigade turn up to a fire like this expecting the building to do its job and being trained in accordance with that.

I know I sound like I work for them but it really winds me up how there see nd to be some organised attempt to shift some of the blame on to them. I know from my day to day work that they are literally the only ones, even post Grenfell, who take stuff like this seriously and put people's life safety as a first priority. Every one else involved is primarily thinking about money.

I'm amazed how the blame is being shifted from those who allowed the building to be built the way it was and ignored all the warnings onto ordinary firefighters who risked their lives trying to save people. It's both sad and infuriating. Feck knows what the firefighters who attended Grenfell last night must be thinking. "Why bother" I suspect.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Victimhood has become such a prize in our society, how pathetic.

 

[SteveJ]

I guess we should all come back in nearly 30 years time as that's usually the going rate for getting any kind of justice in this country

Damn right.

 

[2 man midfield]

I'm amazed how the blame is being shifted from those who allowed the building to be built the way it was and ignored all the warnings onto ordinary firefighters who risked their lives trying to save people. It's both sad and infuriating. Feck knows what the firefighters who attended Grenfell last night must be thinking. "Why bother" I suspect.

This

 

[SteveJ]

Victimhood has become such a prize in our society, how pathetic.

?

 

[SteveTheRed]

I'm sure she is wrong and it would have been much better not said or reported but I guess when you have your kid murdered by racists and the police not really giving a shit aoiut it for a long long time you might well see institutional racism even when it isn't there.

Indeed, why is it necessary to print the story? The Firemen aren’t racist. The Torygraph on the other hand...

It's exactly the kind of story you'd expect. Divide and conquer while the Tory council and the private contractors are laughing as they get away with it again.

100% this.

Putting the blame on the Telegraph, rather than the high profile campaigner who has come out and said such a ridiculous statement.

Fair enough to say that this is deflecting from the real issue and it's the council and contractors fault. But I can't see how you can blame the Telegraph for running with it, it's a big story, she's awarded an OBE well recognised campaigner and coming out with this nonsense which does more harm than good.

 

[Sweet Square]

Putting the blame on the Telegraph, rather than the high profile campaigner who has come out and said such a ridiculous statement.

Fair enough to say that this is deflecting from the real issue and it's the council and contractors fault. But I can't see how you can blame the Telegraph for running with it, it's a big story, she's awarded an OBE well recognised campaigner and coming out with this nonsense which does more harm than good.

Which is why the telegraph publish it.

The telegraph isn't a really a newspaper -

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-i-have-resigned-from-telegraph/

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Good to apologise but maybe she should have done her research before making such a public and disgusting accusation.

 

[noodlehair]

I'm amazed how the blame is being shifted from those who allowed the building to be built the way it was and ignored all the warnings onto ordinary firefighters who risked their lives trying to save people. It's both sad and infuriating. Feck knows what the firefighters who attended Grenfell last night must be thinking. "Why bother" I suspect.

Yeah its bizarre. The thing is they are the only people involved who have no agenda or motivation other than saving or protecting lives. It's literally their job. The building owners, managers, council, deaigners etc. All have responsibilities and also financial interests or pressure. Even building control and fire engineers operate in competition with private sector so are under pressure to accept lesser standards or "solutions" that don't necessarily strictly comply with the rules.

I can understand reviewing what happened to learn lessons but the fire brigade shouldn't be getting criticised in courts or in official reports really or being told they caused the loss of lives. One of the criticisms was that their call staff didn't have training to deal with something like Grenfell...how do you train people to deal with something that's never happened and that shouldn't be expected to happen?

Another seems to be criticising them for not following protocol. If they had followed protocol they would have been stood outside the building spraying the outside with a token hose pipe while telling people to find their own way out...debatable how many lives that would have saved or cost. They deviated because they were confronted with something horrific and had to improvise to try and save people.

It wasnt down to them that London is full of high rise blocks wrapped in fuel with no fire suppression system or alternative fire escape routes. Our fire safety regs are what caused that. That and the poor management of the buildings.

 

[fergieisold]

according to Stephen Lawrence’s mum

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...mother-claims-firefighters-tackling-grenfell/

What a fecking muppet.

 

[VorZakone]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Was she genuinely doubting them? Did she really need reassurance...?

 

[Kag]

Today’s coverage surrounding firefighters has been sickening. Why take responsibility for wrapping buildings with flammable cladding when you can commission an “independent” inquiry to castigate the people running into the tower instead?

And this country will lap it up and vote Tory in their droves. Frightening.

 

[Cheesy]

If they had followed the rules and procedures for fighting a fire technically none of them would have entered the building to try and save anyone in the first place. Their oxygen was running out before they could get far enough in the building to be of use so they were going in without masks on and only attaching them when it got to a stage they were struggling to breathe.

There is also no equipment anywhere in the world that would have helped them fight the fire from the outside or get people out. Their tallest ladder is 18m while standard ones are 11m. The fire on the outside was spreading faster than it could be contained and the outside of the building was also rainscreened which means it's not only extremely flammable but also shields itself from water.

The big issue seems to be with the stay put policy and whether it should have been rescinded sooner, but the problem there is there was only one stairwell and it was smoke logged. The fire brigade also can't get in to the building to help people or fight the fire if the stairwell is clogged up. The idea of the stay put policy is to evacuate in phases, which works fine when the building itself does it's job in containing the fire. In hindsight they should have rescinded it sooner but this as an unprecedented situation so it seems ridiculous to lay the blame with the fire brigade rather than the massive issues with the building itself.

If the government listened to people like the fire brigade every building like Grenfell would have 2 or more staircases and a sprinkler system installed, and those two things would more than likely have prevented anyone dying and possibly even stopped the fire before it spread to the outside.

There's also obviously been some major failings within the building itself for that many people to have died. Either the compartmentation has failed or the protection to the hallways and stairs hasn't worked. The fire brigade turn up to a fire like this expecting the building to do its job and being trained in accordance with that.

I know I sound like I work for them but it really winds me up how there see nd to be some organised attempt to shift some of the blame on to them. I know from my day to day work that they are literally the only ones, even post Grenfell, who take stuff like this seriously and put people's life safety as a first priority. Every one else involved is primarily thinking about money.

Nah that's fair enough - very well-thought out post, as you say they did an excellent job at the time and shifting the blame heavily onto them isn't at all fair.

 

[Drainy]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

some people. wow

 

[Rams]

Putting the blame on the Telegraph, rather than the high profile campaigner who has come out and said such a ridiculous statement.

Fair enough to say that this is deflecting from the real issue and it's the council and contractors fault. But I can't see how you can blame the Telegraph for running with it, it's a big story, she's awarded an OBE well recognised campaigner and coming out with this nonsense which does more harm than good.

High profile campaigner or the mother of a son who was brutally murdered because of his skin colour and then the coppers spent a decade or so doing feck all to catch the white middle class offenders?
Surely any self respecting journalist or newspaper would understand why somebody with her experiences might be suspicious towards authorities and then realize it would be much more newsworthy & important to investigate why the fecking local council permitted turning a densely populated tower into a fecking match stick??? But no, let’s all turn on Doreen Lawrence, the mad bitch...

 

[SteveJ]

If anyone has a right to question British institutions, it's Mrs Lawrence.
Not that I agree with her previous position.