Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017

[Pogue Mahone]

And...? People decorated and in some cases purchased the old council flats and did them up. Doesn't change the state of structural disrepair to the building or the dangerous practices. I really don't get the point of this article

To try and document the fact that there are real people behind the grim statistics?

I find the article powerful and effective. And desperately sad. The nerd in me is also impressed by how well it is optimised for reading on a smartphone!

 

[Smores]

What do you mean 'and?'? It's just interesting considering how they've been portrayed. And the point is to give some more background on it and the people that lived there.

It just reads like less of an interest peice on humanising the people and more a typical Daily Mail "look they weren't all poor like the media said". You can see their follow up to this a mile away

I just don't see the relevance on whether they were poor or well off, lived in shit holes or well decorated apartments. Would be nice if the BBC reported more on the guilty than making it entertainment.

 

[Jippy]

It's interesting and extremely sad and I had time to read the experiences of the first family.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It just reads like less of an interest peice on humanising the people and more a typical Daily Mail "look they weren't all poor like the media said". You can see their follow up to this a mile away

I just don't see the relevance on whether they were poor or well off, lived in shit holes or well decorated apartments. Would be nice if the BBC reported more on the guilty than making it entertainment.

The relevance is that these were homes. Each as individual as varied as the people that live in them. It gives life to the building as well as the people that inhabited it. If anything, the article is a counter to the Daily Mail mentality that a bunch of dole scroungers and illegal immigrants being displaced from their dirty flats is no great loss to our society. A diverse and productive community went up in flames that night and the more we hear about the full extent of that loss the better IMO. I think your criticism is well wide of the mark here.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

It just reads like less of an interest peice on humanising the people and more a typical Daily Mail "look they weren't all poor like the media said". You can see their follow up to this a mile away

I just don't see the relevance on whether they were poor or well off, lived in shit holes or well decorated apartments. Would be nice if the BBC reported more on the guilty than making it entertainment.

Didn't get the Daily Mail vibe at all, particularly as the article is a celebration of diversity which is hardly their forte. Given the fact that multiculturalism and diversity has been largely portrayed negatively, it's an interesting angle.

Also reiterates the human angle of the Grenfall tower which is so often lost.

 

[Mockney]

Yeah, not getting the Daily Mail vibes off that at all.

 

[noodlehair]

Still no sign of anyone admitting that there were no fire barriers in place...

 

[Dave89]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...fell-promise-broken-accusations-a8007501.html

Completely unfair of the press to hold a lying, callous piece of shit responsible for her quick political-gain promises.

 

[RedSky]

What a turd she is. It's surprising this isn't headline news though. BBC don't even mention it from what I can see.

 

[Damien]

What a turd she is. It's surprising this isn't headline news though. BBC don't even mention it from what I can see.

That doesn't surprise me unfortunately.

 

[utdalltheway]

Is the Trident money still available? Priorities, right?

 

[GloryHunter07]

Most sensible Housing Associations have been assuming that they will have to pay for sprinklers themselves.

Par for the course under the Austerity government.

 

[matherto]

I wish she'd feck off.

 

[Cheesy]

Is the Trident money still available? Priorities, right?

Don't forget the £1bn which went to the DUP. "Austerity" should probably be replaced with "being tight-arsed bastards until spending money benefits us."

 

[Dave89]

All the Tory fundamentalists who were squealing like pigs at the "politicising" of the matter seem quite quiet on the topic of Teresa May's opportunistic politicising now that the news cycle has moved on and her lies have been revealed.

Seemingly showing concern about people burning to death is vile politicising but telling lies about preventing people burning to death in the future (while trying to cling on your job) is just strong and stable leadership.

 

[Jippy]

All the Tory fundamentalists who were squealing like pigs at the "politicising" of the matter seem quite quiet on the topic of Teresa May's opportunistic politicising now that the news cycle has moved on and her lies have been revealed.

Seemingly showing concern about people burning to death is vile politicising but telling lies about preventing people burning to death in the future (while trying to cling on your job) is just strong and stable leadership.

That ship has long since sailed.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Didn't Silva post an article where it said that upgrades of sprinklers would cost only £100,000s? Why are these proposals from the local authorities costing tens of millions?

Are those residents from high-rises in Camden still out of their homes by the way?

 

[GloryHunter07]

Didn't Silva post an article where it said that upgrades of sprinklers would cost only £10,000s? Why are these proposals from the local authorities costing tens of millions?

Are those residents from high-rises in Camden still out of their homes by the way?

That sounds pretty cheap tbh but im no expert.

 

[utdalltheway]

fwiw, I'd expect to see prices in the range of GBP 140-200/square meter for a sprinkler retrofit in an existing high rise.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

So i checked back and it was from a Newsnight ep that he had been watching, presumably for a Grenfell comparable building. The expense was supposedly estimated at £200k. In a later post someone alludes to a reduction in the cost of such refurbishments.

Reading the Metro article the proposals seem to average out at £400,000+ per site. Not quite as bad as i thought when first seeing the headline figure, however with councils there's bound to be a little skimming off the top somewhere.

One of the plans referenced was seeking to install sprinklers in every space, communal and residential. They could always remove the latter component and reapply possibly.

IIRC, we also had an absence of the requisite fire doors in many of these buildigns.

 

[SteveJ]

"We know the truth": Six months on, Grenfell Tower fire survivors are left demanding answers

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...isaster-six-months-on-survivors-winter-london

 

[buchansleftleg]

So i checked back and it was from a Newsnight ep that he had been watching, presumably for a Grenfell comparable building. The expense was supposedly estimated at £200k. In a later post someone alludes to a reduction in the cost of such refurbishments.

Reading the Metro article the proposals seem to average out at £400,000+ per site. Not quite as bad as i thought when first seeing the headline figure, however with councils there's bound to be a little skimming off the top somewhere.

One of the plans referenced was seeking to install sprinklers in every space, communal and residential. They could always remove the latter component and reapply possibly.

IIRC, we also had an absence of the requisite fire doors in many of these buildigns.

I would not hold my breath(pardon the pun) waiting for the money from this shambles of a government. The Mayor of Manchester had to basically go to the press and complain to get them to pay the money they needed to to cover the cost of the Manchester Bomb attack.

Bear in my mind we are not talking about generous compensation package or contentious issues - this is the normal recovery of costs when resources are pulled in from across the region to sort out an emergency situation such as mass flooding events or terrorist events. It covers the extra fuel costs and additional hours and ensures that emergency services can concentrate on saving lives and worry about who pays the bills for services coming from multiple agencies or regions.

This is the sort of meat and drink task that should just happen in the background. Increasingly it seems that the most effective civil servants have toddled off to avoid getting dragged into the Brexit Quagmire. I honestly fear that we will see another tower fire go out of control before the Grenfell inquiry is completed - Hopefully with less casualties but i would prefer not to rely on hope.

 

[SteveJ]

May rejects request by Grenfell survivors for decision-making panel

Speaking on behalf of bereaved families, Adel Chaoui – who lost four relatives in the fire – questioned the timing of the decision.

“Not only does the news continue to ignore our concerns, but it seems to have been timed deliberately, on the last working day for most law firms, to limit the time available for us to take legal advice and/or challenge the decision.

“Given the news was never going to be well received, the timing raises serious questions about judgment and intent.

“Poor judgment and discourtesy not to have waited until the new year to avoid upset during the holidays, but more concerning, what could possibly be behind the intent to limit time available for a response?”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-grenfell-survivors-for-decision-making-panel

 

[Rado_N]

fecking cnuts

 

[SalfordRed18]

Will swing to labour I reckon.

 

[saivet]

The reaction under this article for Sky News was very much a "and rightly so" rhetoric.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Why the controversy? Have such panels been the norm during other successful inquiries ?

 

[Mozza]

They see the fire as a failure of local and national government so why should they trust the latter to set up a fair panel?

 

[Silva]

They've also seen the numerous coverups of criminal behaviour by the establishment, and have good reason to think that everything will be swept under the carpet.

 

[Silva]

 

[Damien]

This is going to be another one of those 'things' where we'll continue seeing bumps in 2-3 years due to lack of action.

 

[Livvie]

71 still seems ridiculously low to me

 

[Drainy]

This is going to be another one of those 'things' where we'll continue seeing bumps in 2-3 years due to lack of action.

Is there enough general public interest in seeing justice served?

At first I thought this would lead to far reaching consequences in all levels of government - due to the mismanagement of the local authority, and the effect of cuts to services and Legal Aid, but I fear that in post-referendum Britain that the empathy levels are dropping off the charts and so far the Tories have kept a lid on the enquiry to stop it expanding out into something proper.

 

[Dave89]

Any of our resident Tories want to explain why Maggie May still hasn't delivered on her funding promises to prevent a re-occurrence?

 

[Snowjoe]

Those billboards really wound me up the wrong way for some reason, these things can happen without anyone committing a crime. It’d be much more useful to advertise what still needs to be done to improve safety in remaining tower blocks like this because work in building areas can be notoriously slow even without the government being involved.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Those billboards really wound me up the wrong way for some reason, these things can happen without anyone committing a crime. It’d be much more useful to advertise what still needs to be done to improve safety in remaining tower blocks like this because work in building areas can be notoriously slow even without the government being involved.

They can happen without a crime.

But in the case of Grenfell, sub standard materials were deliberately used just to save money.

Those materials caused the deaths of 71 people.

Someone is responsible for that.

 

[Snowjoe]

They can happen without a crime.

But in the case of Grenfell, sub standard materials were deliberately used just to save money.

Those materials caused the deaths of 71 people.

Someone is responsible for that.

Of course but that still doesn’t mean a crime has been committed, if the materials still met regs then who can you arrest? We know multiple government have been warned about this over the years, labour included, so we’d be better off pushing to changes in buildings standards to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

 

[Ramshock]

Those billboards really wound me up the wrong way for some reason, these things can happen without anyone committing a crime. It’d be much more useful to advertise what still needs to be done to improve safety in remaining tower blocks like this because work in building areas can be notoriously slow even without the government being involved.

Nope. Someone made a conscious decision to use sub standard materials that were a fire hazard. Authorities were also warned this may happen. Someone needs to swing for it.

 

[Snowjoe]

Nope. Someone made a conscious decision to use sub standard materials that were a fire hazard. Authorities were also warned this may happen. Someone needs to swing for it.

If it’s found through the investigation that someone’s broken the law then absolutely send them down and hit them with the book, no problems with that at all. But in the meantime I just feel it’s a better use of advertising to focus protests like this on ensuring safety on existing properties where people are still living.

 

[Silva]

Of course but that still doesn’t mean a crime has been committed, if the materials still met regs then who can you arrest? We know multiple government have been warned about this over the years, labour included, so we’d be better off pushing to changes in buildings standards to make sure this doesn’t happen again.

I'm game for a good old fashioned mob going after the ministers who turned a blind eye to it.