Müller wanted his goal badly, but his involvement in the 2-0 own goal remains the only contribution to the scoring. Not a bad game from him though.
Group F (Germany, Mexico, Sweden, South Korea)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Is Gundogan being whistled for that photo or am I missing something else?
Kroos is the most important player at the WC probably
He's definitely extremely important, but I think Messi, Neymar, perhaps Ronaldo are even more relied upon by their teams.
I think he may put Gundogan in a midfield 3 and play Ozil on the right - at least in the tough games. Ozil is his boy and will start.
Who knows what he's going to do. It's the first time Löw might really be spoiled for choice in attack. I think the remnants of 2014 will have a little head start, but once we are a couple of matches into the tournament everything is possible.
Oof. I'm beginning to doubt that these last few matches were just a matter of lacking motivation.
I don't. Look at the first half performance against Spain. That's our top level when everybody tries and we'll see it again at the World Cup. I'd back us to make the semis again fairly comfortably, after that it's down to form on the day and a bit of luck.
Germany always do terrible in these friendlies. It's nothing new.
Müller's face after the 2-0 said it all for me. Just utterly disinterested and not even tyring to hide it.
To me it felt like they put in some effort initially but at some point during first half decided that they had proven that this is working and then just began switching off.
Süle for Hummels and Gündogan for Reus (who enabled most combinations with his movement) probably did the rest.
Germany always:
Doing really meh in the pre wc friendlies
Reaches at least semi final when it matters
Doing really meh in the pre wc friendlies
Reaches at least semi final when it matters
I've got a bad feeling about this.
The Germany fan base is absolutely toxic right now. Wagner discussion, Neuer discussion, Sane outcry in national and international news and the Erdogan affair which just doesn't want to end.
A few days ago, it became public that Gundogan has no dual passport, only a German one. Made many people angry again.
Today, Illkay was booed very loud and clearly. I have heard from several fans who only went to the stadium to boo him.
Then, there is the thing with the turkish-german community in Germany. There are regular Germany fans, fans who rooting for Germany at this WC because Turkey is not there, Erdogan haters and Erdogan supporters. Those groups have heated arguments between themselves and with the German fans / public about the treatment of the players. Some Germany fans want Ozil and Illkay out of the squad at all costs and I even know some who plan to not follow the World Cup because of the affair.
The Germany fan base is absolutely toxic right now. Wagner discussion, Neuer discussion, Sane outcry in national and international news and the Erdogan affair which just doesn't want to end.
A few days ago, it became public that Gundogan has no dual passport, only a German one. Made many people angry again.
Today, Illkay was booed very loud and clearly. I have heard from several fans who only went to the stadium to boo him.
Then, there is the thing with the turkish-german community in Germany. There are regular Germany fans, fans who rooting for Germany at this WC because Turkey is not there, Erdogan haters and Erdogan supporters. Those groups have heated arguments between themselves and with the German fans / public about the treatment of the players. Some Germany fans want Ozil and Illkay out of the squad at all costs and I even know some who plan to not follow the World Cup because of the affair.
After the match in Löw's interview it was the first time I thought it will not be like this. Ok, maybe in 2014 it looked similar until Reus got injured. I could see Germany start with the attack they have right now especially as Özil has injury problems. If that works the first matches Löw will not change it. Draxler and Reus changed position a lot.
I had the feeling throughout the match that they had heavy legs. That is a problem with the matches when there is a lot fitness work in between. You cannot compare the teams with each other either as you do not know how much the other team did.
2 minutes before he had a legal goal disallowed - with VAR that would already be the 2:0. He still is able to get into this positions. You hardly see that at Bayern anymore. Guess that has to do with Lewandowski. He scored on ever fifth shot this season but hardly got any shots and nearly never in vicinity to goal. That attacking combination with Werner who mainly uses his speed, Reus and Müller could really work out fine.
Germany are one of the three teams (along with Spain and Brazil) I’m banking on absolutely breezing through the group stages.
Reus may be as good as Ozil, but certainly not as a number 10, neither is Draxler nearly as good. If Ozil is fit he should definitely be starting in that position for the group stages, in the bigger matches later on maybe Low can think of playing Gundogan there to strengthen the midfield.
I would be surprise if Germany doesnt reach atleast SF.
Why were people jeering when Gundogan touched the ball btw? I felt like Saudi got in behind the German midfield very easily.
Recently ozil and gundogan very publicly met the Turkish president in a show of support and called him ‘my president’. Don’t think German fans were impressed
So they jeered Ozil in the last game as well? I know he was injured for the Saudi game.
I’m not sure, but I would imagine so.
I am genuinely worried for Die Mannschaft now. I know everyone, particularly our German residents here would say that Germany don't give a shit about friendlies and when come the actual tournament, they would be a beast but yesterday they played a full strength team against fecking Saudi Arabia! A 2-1 result against the lowest ranked team in the World Cup is so disappointing, not to mention that Saudi Arabia even missed an open goal. I also don't get this whole "friendlies don't mean anything to Germany", can they just turn a switch on during the World Cup? Really? Friendlies are still competitive matches after all and you have to question the players' integrity and that just isn't professional. Brazil, France and even England have been great in their friendlies, particularly the first two. Germany just haven't been quite the same after they won the World Cup. After they won the World Cup in 2014, they lost at home to Argentina 2-4, albeit its a friendly. Never mind. Then, they had a poor start in their qualification campaign for Euro 2016, losing to Poland away, drawing to Ireland at home and losing to them away. They were always going to win that group once they "woke up". I wasn't particularly impressed with their Euro 2016 campaign. First big team they faced in Italy, they only won narrowly by penalties and it could have been a loss as well if Zaza didn't make a fool of himself. Next they faced France and they lost 0-2. Ever since Germany qualified for the World Cup, this Germany team isn't the Germany I knew. I've supported and followed Germany for 16 years and for the longest time, this is the first time I see them lacking heart, concentration, cohesion. Something is just missing and I can't seem to point out what it is, there's just no intensity or that German efficiency which they are great for.
Germany's biggest enemy is always herself and they basically failed their way to World Cup success in 2014 after coming so close so many times. There's also usually a 10 year cycle of German dominance in world football before a lull and since their rebuilding process started in 2016, could this be the end of their dominance? I have a really bad feeling about this upcoming World Cup for them and as crazy as this sounds, I'm starting to think Germany could be the big team "casualty" and finish 2nd, face Brazil in the next round and get knocked out in Round of 16, or dare I say, get knocked out in the group stage and finish 3rd behind Sweden and Mexico. Sweden is a giant-killer, they have a history of winning the Group of Death, remember 2002 in a group with England, Argentina and Nigeria and knocking out Italy is as impressive as it gets. Mexico always make it to the last 16.
Here's an even more haunting statistic that is very worrying for the Germans - The curse of the World Cup defending champion. Since 1998, no European team who won the World Cup has ever made it out of the group stage. 7 out of the last 9 have lost a group game and 3 out of the last 4 have not made out of the group.
1998 - France won and finish bottom in 2002
2002 - Brazil won and got knocked out by France in quarter-final in 2006
2006 - Italy won, scored 0 goals and finish bottom of the group (with Paraguay, New Zealand, Slovakia WTF?!) in 2010
2010 - Spain won and finish 3rd in the group, humiliated in their opening match losing 1-5 to Netherlands and 0-3 to Chile in the next match
2014 - Germany won, 2018 - ???
Every World Cup is also bound to have a big team to crash out in the group stage. For the longest time possible. I can't remember a year all the big teams qualified from the group stage.
2014 - Spain, Italy, England
2010 - Italy, France
2006 - All the big teams qualified to last 16, seems like this is the only year
2002 - France, Portugal
1998 - Spain
1994 - Argentina, Italy
1990 - Argentina
1986 - Portugal
1982 - Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia
1978 - France
1974 - Italy
1970 - Czechoslovakia
1966 - France, Spain, Brazil, Italy
So out of the past 13 World Cups, only one year - the 2006 World Cup has all the big teams who qualified to the last 16. I think for this year, the big teams "casualty" could be Argentina, Germany, possibly England but I doubt it since I have them as the dark horse surprise which is funny with the Argies and Germans considering they both contested the last World Cup Final. I hope I'm wrong though. Would be a massive shock and so gutted for Germany. I hope they can be the first team in modern football to retain the World Cup and break this World Cup Champion "curse" but their recent stats are very worrying. Out of form players like Muller, a rusty Neur who hasn't played since Sept prior to the last two friendlies, there's this whole ongoing drama with Ozil/Gundogan and the fans, recently there was a training bust-up between Kimmich and Rudiger. All these are ominous signs and not good signs of a team who will win a World Cup or even go far.
Germany's biggest enemy is always herself and they basically failed their way to World Cup success in 2014 after coming so close so many times. There's also usually a 10 year cycle of German dominance in world football before a lull and since their rebuilding process started in 2016, could this be the end of their dominance? I have a really bad feeling about this upcoming World Cup for them and as crazy as this sounds, I'm starting to think Germany could be the big team "casualty" and finish 2nd, face Brazil in the next round and get knocked out in Round of 16, or dare I say, get knocked out in the group stage and finish 3rd behind Sweden and Mexico. Sweden is a giant-killer, they have a history of winning the Group of Death, remember 2002 in a group with England, Argentina and Nigeria and knocking out Italy is as impressive as it gets. Mexico always make it to the last 16.
Here's an even more haunting statistic that is very worrying for the Germans - The curse of the World Cup defending champion. Since 1998, no European team who won the World Cup has ever made it out of the group stage. 7 out of the last 9 have lost a group game and 3 out of the last 4 have not made out of the group.
1998 - France won and finish bottom in 2002
2002 - Brazil won and got knocked out by France in quarter-final in 2006
2006 - Italy won, scored 0 goals and finish bottom of the group (with Paraguay, New Zealand, Slovakia WTF?!) in 2010
2010 - Spain won and finish 3rd in the group, humiliated in their opening match losing 1-5 to Netherlands and 0-3 to Chile in the next match
2014 - Germany won, 2018 - ???
Every World Cup is also bound to have a big team to crash out in the group stage. For the longest time possible. I can't remember a year all the big teams qualified from the group stage.
2014 - Spain, Italy, England
2010 - Italy, France
2006 - All the big teams qualified to last 16, seems like this is the only year
2002 - France, Portugal
1998 - Spain
1994 - Argentina, Italy
1990 - Argentina
1986 - Portugal
1982 - Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia
1978 - France
1974 - Italy
1970 - Czechoslovakia
1966 - France, Spain, Brazil, Italy
So out of the past 13 World Cups, only one year - the 2006 World Cup has all the big teams who qualified to the last 16. I think for this year, the big teams "casualty" could be Argentina, Germany, possibly England but I doubt it since I have them as the dark horse surprise which is funny with the Argies and Germans considering they both contested the last World Cup Final. I hope I'm wrong though. Would be a massive shock and so gutted for Germany. I hope they can be the first team in modern football to retain the World Cup and break this World Cup Champion "curse" but their recent stats are very worrying. Out of form players like Muller, a rusty Neur who hasn't played since Sept prior to the last two friendlies, there's this whole ongoing drama with Ozil/Gundogan and the fans, recently there was a training bust-up between Kimmich and Rudiger. All these are ominous signs and not good signs of a team who will win a World Cup or even go far.
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Why is it a big deal that 2 players of Turkish descent took pictures with Erdogan when the guy was in London? It's not like they could do much, no? Am I missing some part of the story?
You're basically missing knowledge about German-Turkish relations, especially in the past couple of years. You might also be unaware of Erdogan's endless attempts to directly speak to Turkish migrants in Western European countries as if they were his own citizens. It's a complex issue that involves Germans still feeling some kind of way about people with dual nationalities, Turkish migrants in Germany being even more conservative than the ones in their old homeland, etc...
So we're selecting players based on their political affiliations now? Didn't know that, maybe they should've interviewed all the players to see which political party they supported as well.
emre can declined the meeting
If someone wants to play for the NT they should commit to the country.
How are they not committing to their country? That's absolutely ridiculous and jingoist.
Personally I wasn't that bothered by it, but that's because I'm a cynic who doesn't put "DIE MANNSCHAFT" on a pedestal anyway. Technically NT players are representatives of Germany though and if you, in that function, endorse a foreign leader who has a very hostile rhetoric towards Germany and is a dictator in the making to boot, then that's a problem. Especially when you sign the jersey with "for my respected president".
Players can pretty much believe what they want, the concern is what they publicly do and endorse and whether or not it is at odds with certain values and that's not limited to politics either btw. Effenberg famously "ended" his NT career mid-tournament in 94 by giving fans the finger.
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Their personal political affiliations have nothing to do with their football and therefore their selection in the national team. Erdogan, as much as the west hates him, is still popular amongst his people so supporting him should not be made akin to supporting Nazism or something, something extreme I would say would have to be looked into. Its nothing to be concerned about.
Would you advocate removing someone for supporting Trump then? What difference is there to supportinf Trump than Erdogan?
The NT isn't a club team, it is viewed as Germany's representation in football and its members are supposed to be functioning as role models. Different stadards do (or are supposed to) apply.
The difference is that there's not a sizable amount of people living in Germany who are of American ancestry. Erdogan has publicly told Turkish migrants to have more babies and to take on important jobs in order to increase their influence in their new countries. He also feels like it's his right to then go to these countries and tell those people how to behave. And since Erdogan's views are not compatible with West European ideals that's a potential problem.
Of course that's only one side of the issue. A lot of Germans still suspect people with dual nationalities to play with less national pride, which is a pretty ridiculous statement. But there's always the underlying belief that these players only play for Germany because it offers them better chances to win titles. The fact that the Turkish football federation actively recruits German Turks in order to win them over to their side only adds to that general sense of distrust.
No, the NT is a football team, not a party representing the politics of Germany around the world.
So, like I said, why dont you interview all the German players then? So what if they havent expressed their views publically? If you want to keep the team so pious and full of role models shouldn't you make sure that they represent and agree with your values?
Good post. Its such a good example of why sports and politics shouldnt mix. Really just a way of showcasing political views now. Everyone loses.
I wasn't speaking about Germans but rather if an American team sacks players because Trump would you support that decision?
And you yourself say its ridiculous to doubt a players dedication to the national team if they are second generation Germans, so why is this so controversial? How is their ability to play in the NT effected by this?
Disagree. There's no such thing as a politically neutral sportsman. They are blessed with much attention, especially among the younger generations which often happen to be less interested in politics. It is a waste if they don't use that popularity to initiate something good. Some of the greatest sportsmen are remembered for their political movements, like Ali.
I also think many in here don't really grasp how delicate the Erdogan topic is in Germany. When I have time I'm going to write something more in-depth about it but there are many different reasons why people in Germany are so offended by it. While it may be true for some that they expect national players to represent their country, I think many simply find it hard to cheer for players who support an autocrat. The wrongdoings of Erdogan are much more present here for obvious reasons. I don't give two f*cks about role models and have been a great fan of the footballers Gündogan and Özil from the very beginning but even I can't get my head around the fact that they let themselves being instrumentalized for such a person. We've had a similar case with Calhanoglu at our club and from a personal point of view I was done with him after he supported an election campaign of Erdogan.
The differentiation of politics and sports is probably a honourable ideal but it is simply not possible. I mean, imagine someone who openly supports Nazi-fashion world views. He would never be accepted in a national team. It is a similar, albeit less extreme obviously, case with Özil and Gündogan. People simply despise their political affliction towards a despote who turns a country that once was on a very constructive course into a autocraty with very disgraceful instruments such as hate against minorities (and we have a very large Kurdish community in Germany, too, by the way).
My point is that the more opinions, the more divided the teams and the sport will be. Football unites people, political opinions rarely do.
And we've seen numerous times how politics has been channelled into football in terrible ways. Columbia under Escobar+cartels, Yugoslavia's fan groups, etc.
Btw I highly recommend the documentary "The two Escobars" - a story of how all the cartels in Columbia went into football and how it all ended tragic with the death of Andres Escobar (The role model that scored an own goal and got shot) + a country divided. Sure there's a good story in Ali (and what a story), but he truely was a rarity and a legend - He was actually a bit of a douche bag towards Joe Frazier and George Foreman who he framed as "Uncle Tom's" / "the white man's choice" with both boxers being nice persons.
Of course I also think good of using your platform as a way to do something good - but that is charity to me.
Your comparison is all over the place. "DIE MANNSCHAFT(tm)" is not a team from Germany it's the team from Germany. Erdogan is not the leader of Germany, but a foreign nation and neither Özil nor Gündogan were sacked.
If some USMNT player showed up to an election campaign fotoshoot with Putin or Kim, calling them "my respected president" I would expect a much bigger reaction than Özil and Gündogan got in Germany.
Whether you like it or not the public sees the NT players as more than just a random professional whose sole purpose is playing football.
If those two weren't playing for the NT the reaction would be different or even almost non existent. That's simply how it is, a part of German football culture.
Why are they not committed? The Japanese minister is a big fan of the footballers and wants to take a picture with them in London, are you going to think they are committed to Japan for a picture? I don't see the rationale.
The Japanese PM has not been persistently hostile towards Germany for years, he isn't turning his country into an autocracy and shitting on human rights, and he doesn't have an election coming up that he's legally banned from campaigning for in Germany and using this stunt to get around. It's clearly very different.
Anyone knows if the three Koreans missing out injured are important players?