GhastlyHun
Full Member
Müller wanted his goal badly, but his involvement in the 2-0 own goal remains the only contribution to the scoring. Not a bad game from him though.
He's definitely extremely important, but I think Messi, Neymar, perhaps Ronaldo are even more relied upon by their teams.Kroos is the most important player at the WC probably
Who knows what he's going to do. It's the first time Löw might really be spoiled for choice in attack. I think the remnants of 2014 will have a little head start, but once we are a couple of matches into the tournament everything is possible.I think he may put Gundogan in a midfield 3 and play Ozil on the right - at least in the tough games. Ozil is his boy and will start.
I don't. Look at the first half performance against Spain. That's our top level when everybody tries and we'll see it again at the World Cup. I'd back us to make the semis again fairly comfortably, after that it's down to form on the day and a bit of luck.Oof. I'm beginning to doubt that these last few matches were just a matter of lacking motivation.
Müller's face after the 2-0 said it all for me. Just utterly disinterested and not even tyring to hide it.Oof. I'm beginning to doubt that these last few matches were just a matter of lacking motivation.
After the match in Löw's interview it was the first time I thought it will not be like this. Ok, maybe in 2014 it looked similar until Reus got injured. I could see Germany start with the attack they have right now especially as Özil has injury problems. If that works the first matches Löw will not change it. Draxler and Reus changed position a lot.I think he may put Gundogan in a midfield 3 and play Ozil on the right - at least in the tough games. Ozil is his boy and will start.
2 minutes before he had a legal goal disallowed - with VAR that would already be the 2:0. He still is able to get into this positions. You hardly see that at Bayern anymore. Guess that has to do with Lewandowski. He scored on ever fifth shot this season but hardly got any shots and nearly never in vicinity to goal. That attacking combination with Werner who mainly uses his speed, Reus and Müller could really work out fine.Müller wanted his goal badly, but his involvement in the 2-0 own goal remains the only contribution to the scoring. Not a bad game from him though.
Reus may be as good as Ozil, but certainly not as a number 10, neither is Draxler nearly as good. If Ozil is fit he should definitely be starting in that position for the group stages, in the bigger matches later on maybe Low can think of playing Gundogan there to strengthen the midfield.That's not certain. Reus is as good as Ozil if not better. Tough decision for Low
Recently ozil and gundogan very publicly met the Turkish president in a show of support and called him ‘my president’. Don’t think German fans were impressedWhy were people jeering when Gundogan touched the ball btw? I felt like Saudi got in behind the German midfield very easily.
So they jeered Ozil in the last game as well? I know he was injured for the Saudi game.Recently ozil and gundogan very publicly met the Turkish president in a show of support and called him ‘my president’. Don’t think German fans were impressed
I’m not sure, but I would imagine so.So they jeered Ozil in the last game as well? I know he was injured for the Saudi game.
You're basically missing knowledge about German-Turkish relations, especially in the past couple of years. You might also be unaware of Erdogan's endless attempts to directly speak to Turkish migrants in Western European countries as if they were his own citizens. It's a complex issue that involves Germans still feeling some kind of way about people with dual nationalities, Turkish migrants in Germany being even more conservative than the ones in their old homeland, etc...Why is it a big deal that 2 players of Turkish descent took pictures with Erdogan when the guy was in London? It's not like they could do much, no? Am I missing some part of the story?
So we're selecting players based on their political affiliations now? Didn't know that, maybe they should've interviewed all the players to see which political party they supported as well.one of them has two nationalities, the other one is solely german. As it stands, two germans are posing with an authocratic leader that tries to turn a once modern and secular country into a nationalistic, religious anti-democratic regime. What's there not to dislike?
emre can declined the meetingWhy is it a big deal that 2 players of Turkish descent took pictures with Erdogan when the guy was in London? It's not like they could do much, no? Am I missing some part of the story?
If someone wants to play for the NT they should commit to the country.So we're selecting players based on their political affiliations now? Didn't know that, maybe they should've interviewed all the players to see which political party they supported as well.
How are they not committing to their country? That's absolutely ridiculous and jingoist.If someone wants to play for the NT they should commit to the country.
Personally I wasn't that bothered by it, but that's because I'm a cynic who doesn't put "DIE MANNSCHAFT" on a pedestal anyway. Technically NT players are representatives of Germany though and if you, in that function, endorse a foreign leader who has a very hostile rhetoric towards Germany and is a dictator in the making to boot, then that's a problem. Especially when you sign the jersey with "for my respected president".So we're selecting players based on their political affiliations now? Didn't know that, maybe they should've interviewed all the players to see which political party they supported as well.
Their personal political affiliations have nothing to do with their football and therefore their selection in the national team. Erdogan, as much as the west hates him, is still popular amongst his people so supporting him should not be made akin to supporting Nazism or something, something extreme I would say would have to be looked into. Its nothing to be concerned about.Personally I wasn't that bothered by it, but that's because I'm a cynic who doesn't put "DIE MANNSCHAFT" on a pedestal anyway. Technically NT players are representatives of Germany though and if you, in that function, endorse a foreign leader who has a very hostile rhetoric towards Germany and is a dictator in the making to boot, then that's a problem. Especially when you sign the jersey with "for my respected president".
Players can pretty much believe what they want, the concern is what they publicly do and endorse and whether or not it is at odds with certain values and that's not limited to politics either btw. Effenberg famously "ended" his NT career mid-tournament in 94 by giving fans the finger.
The NT isn't a club team, it is viewed as Germany's representation in football and its members are supposed to be functioning as role models. Different stadards do (or are supposed to) apply.Their personal political affiliations have nothing to do with their football and therefore their selection in the national team. Erdogan, as much as the west hates him, is still popular amongst his people so supporting him should not be made akin to supporting Nazism or something, something extreme I would say would have to be looked into. Its nothing to be concerned about.
The difference is that there's not a sizable amount of people living in Germany who are of American ancestry. Erdogan has publicly told Turkish migrants to have more babies and to take on important jobs in order to increase their influence in their new countries. He also feels like it's his right to then go to these countries and tell those people how to behave. And since Erdogan's views are not compatible with West European ideals that's a potential problem.Would you advocate removing someone for supporting Trump then? What difference is there to supportinf Trump than Erdogan?
No, the NT is a football team, not a party representing the politics of Germany around the world.The NT isn't a club team, it is viewed as Germany's representation in football and its members are supposed to be functioning as role models. Different stadards do (or are supposed to) apply.
Good post. Its such a good example of why sports and politics shouldnt mix. Really just a way of showcasing political views now. Everyone loses.I've got a bad feeling about this.
The Germany fan base is absolutely toxic right now. Wagner discussion, Neuer discussion, Sane outcry in national and international news and the Erdogan affair which just doesn't want to end.
A few days ago, it became public that Gundogan has no dual passport, only a German one. Made many people angry again.
Today, Illkay was booed very loud and clearly. I have heard from several fans who only went to the stadium to boo him.
Then, there is the thing with the turkish-german community in Germany. There are regular Germany fans, fans who rooting for Germany at this WC because Turkey is not there, Erdogan haters and Erdogan supporters. Those groups have heated arguments between themselves and with the German fans / public about the treatment of the players. Some Germany fans want Ozil and Illkay out of the squad at all costs and I even know some who plan to not follow the World Cup because of the affair.
I wasn't speaking about Germans but rather if an American team sacks players because Trump would you support that decision?The difference is that there's not a sizable amount of people living in Germany who are of American ancestry. Erdogan has publicly told Turkish migrants to have more babies and to take on important jobs in order to increase their influence in their new countries. He also feels like it's his right to then go to these countries and tell those people how to behave. And since Erdogan's views are not compatible with West European ideals that's a potential problem.
Of course that's only one side of the issue. A lot of Germans still suspect people with dual nationalities to play with less national pride, which is a pretty ridiculous statement. But there's always the underlying belief that these players only play for Germany because it offers them better chances to win titles. The fact that the Turkish football federation actively recruits German Turks in order to win them over to their side only adds to that general sense of distrust.
Disagree. There's no such thing as a politically neutral sportsman. They are blessed with much attention, especially among the younger generations which often happen to be less interested in politics. It is a waste if they don't use that popularity to initiate something good. Some of the greatest sportsmen are remembered for their political movements, like Ali.Good post. Its such a good example of why sports and politics shouldnt mix. Really just a way of showcasing political views now. Everyone loses.
My point is that the more opinions, the more divided the teams and the sport will be. Football unites people, political opinions rarely do.Disagree. There's no such thing as a politically neutral sportsman. They are blessed with much attention, especially among the younger generations which often happen to be less interested in politics. It is a waste if they don't use that popularity to initiate something good. Some of the greatest sportsmen are remembered for their political movements, like Ali.
I also think many in here don't really grasp how delicate the Erdogan topic is in Germany. When I have time I'm going to write something more in-depth about it but there are many different reasons why people in Germany are so offended by it. While it may be true for some that they expect national players to represent their country, I think many simply find it hard to cheer for players who support an autocrat. The wrongdoings of Erdogan are much more present here for obvious reasons. I don't give two f*cks about role models and have been a great fan of the footballers Gündogan and Özil from the very beginning but even I can't get my head around the fact that they let themselves being instrumentalized for such a person. We've had a similar case with Calhanoglu at our club and from a personal point of view I was done with him after he supported an election campaign of Erdogan.
The differentiation of politics and sports is probably a honourable ideal but it is simply not possible. I mean, imagine someone who openly supports Nazi-fashion world views. He would never be accepted in a national team. It is a similar, albeit less extreme obviously, case with Özil and Gündogan. People simply despise their political affliction towards a despote who turns a country that once was on a very constructive course into a autocraty with very disgraceful instruments such as hate against minorities (and we have a very large Kurdish community in Germany, too, by the way).
Your comparison is all over the place. "DIE MANNSCHAFT(tm)" is not a team from Germany it's the team from Germany. Erdogan is not the leader of Germany, but a foreign nation and neither Özil nor Gündogan were sacked.I wasn't speaking about Germans but rather if an American team sacks players because Trump would you support that decision?
And you yourself say its ridiculous to doubt a players dedication to the national team if they are second generation Germans, so why is this so controversial? How is their ability to play in the NT effected by this?
Why are they not committed? The Japanese minister is a big fan of the footballers and wants to take a picture with them in London, are you going to think they are committed to Japan for a picture? I don't see the rationale.If someone wants to play for the NT they should commit to the country.
The Japanese PM has not been persistently hostile towards Germany for years, he isn't turning his country into an autocracy and shitting on human rights, and he doesn't have an election coming up that he's legally banned from campaigning for in Germany and using this stunt to get around. It's clearly very different.Why are they not committed? The Japanese minister is a big fan of the footballers and wants to take a picture with them in London, are you going to think they are committed to Japan for a picture? I don't see the rationale.