Group F (Germany, Mexico, Sweden, South Korea)

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

@Don Alfredo was right in the end. Germany usually steps up when it matters, but not this time. It seems they are done as national team.

 

[uamini]

Interesting post-match comments by Hummels, claiming that 7-8 players are almost entirely offensive minded and that he's brought up the issue several times behind closed doors.
They definitely lack balance at the moment, it's really weird.

 

[Don Alfredo]

@Don Alfredo was right in the end. Germany usually steps up when it matters, but not this time. It seems they are done as national team.

Man, I thought if I had low expectations, it wouldn't frustrate me as much. Didn't work

We will come back in some time, the talent is still there. Virtually every position (except for LB and CDM) has very good talents playing their trades in Bundesliga or Europe's top sides. The tactics need a revamp though. Was fun while it lasted. RIP Germany Possession Game 2013-2018

Interesting post-match comments by Hummels, claiming that 7-8 players are almost entirely offensive minded and that he's brought up the issue several times behind closed doors.
They definitely lack balance at the moment, it's really weird.

Just watched the interview again. That's very worrying. There is clearly a problem with the role of the fullbacks and no covering from the CMs or the Wingers for them, when they push up.

I thought it was baffling how much Kimmich pushed up, when it was clear how Lorzano was told to stay high and punish the space on the counter. Kimmich should have acted by himself and cut his offensive runs to block the passing lanes to Lorzano in case of counter. I know that is not how it is supposed to be, normally the CMs or Muller should cover for him but the CMs are both very bad at covering large spaces (slow, bad positioning) and Muller's defensive game has deteriorated almost as much as his offensive game. When it was obvious that no one would cover for him, Kimmich should have decided to stay behind. He is a defender after all, even if he did score 2 against Real. There were enough people drifting to the right with Muller, Werner, Ozil and later Reus.

Maybe Kimmich is too ambitious in his forward drive because of the freedom he has at Bayern. He is touted to be future captain at Bayern and NT, I want to see him thinking and acting on his own behalf if he sees the tactics are not working, instead of doing the same shit over and over again. That's what the big characters do.

I think a 3-man-midfield is a must at this point, maybe even a 5-man-backline. I suggested a 352 earlier in the thread, don't believe for one second that will happen though.

Sebastian Rudy to the rescue, Lothar called it

 

[Charles Miller]

I can't believe some comments come from people who really watch football on a regular basis. So "they are done as a national team" because nothing worked in one game?

 

[Acheron]

I can't believe some comments come from people who really watch football on a regular basis. So "they are done as a national team" because nothing worked in one game?

We'll have to see them against Sweden to assess how much this was due to Mexico's approach. It completely threw them off the pace Mexico was going at them and made them look very bad but that's also the merit of Mexico.

 

[AshRK]

Lowe is showing too much loyalty to his old horses. Boeteng, khedira, ozil, muller all need to be replaced but he prefers them. They have to be careful or they may get knocked out in the group stage itself.

 

[Krakenzero]

Swedes and Koreans are surely fecked now. Worst-case scenario for both of them.

If Sweden beats South Korea tomorrow, they can virtually qualify with a point against Germany (assuming another draw against México will get both teams through, eliminating Germany).

 

[izec]

They will come back. They just need to wake up ad Löw to make the right decisions. Some players were atrocious today. Reus and Brandt were the bright spots. They need to find the right balance in central midfield and fullbacks, i thought they were far too high up the pitch and played right into Mexico's tactics, leaving their centre backs exposed.

 

[Javi]

Credit to Mexico for their composure, that was really great. Players always trying to control the ball no matter how tight the space and then looking to do something. Look forward to seeing them again. Need some work on the attacking decision making.

 

[whatwha]

Might the Hermit Kingdom topple the might of Lindelöf and Sweden tomorrow? I doubt it.

 

[Lagger]

Lowe is showing too much loyalty to his old horses. Boeteng, khedira, ozil, muller all need to be replaced but he prefers them. They have to be careful or they may get knocked out in the group stage itself.

Between those 4 names, you have 2 German Champions, an Italian Champion and someone who is always good for that killer pass. I'll grant you Özil if you have to hate on them, but try as you might, those are probably the best Germany has at the moment on their positions. It's easy to hate on players after they lost a game. But name me a replacement for them that doesn't suck balls compared to them. Go ahead, we'll wait.

 

[Krakenzero]

Between those 4 names, you have 2 German Champions, an Italian Champion and someone who is always good for that killer pass. I'll grant you Özil if you have to hate on them, but try as you might, those are probably the best Germany has at the moment on their positions. It's easy to hate on players after they lost a game. But name me a replacement for them that doesn't suck balls compared to them. Go ahead, we'll wait.

Süle, Gundogan, Reus, Brandt.

 

[AllezLesDiables]

I can't believe some comments come from people who really watch football on a regular basis. So "they are done as a national team" because nothing worked in one game?

Germany was lucky to lose 1-0. Easily could have been 5-6 goals for Mexico.

It wasn’t like Germany dominated and Mexico did a smash and grab.

Of course it’s not over for them, but sighs are troublesome.

 

[Charles Miller]

Germany was lucky to lose 1-0. Easily could have been 5-6 goals for Mexico.

It wasn’t like Germany dominated and Mexico did a smash and grab.

Of course it’s not over for them, but sighs are troublesome.

Thing is, when you're losing and try a goal at any cost, the players will be out of position many times in counter attacks. I think they go to a more conservative approuch in the next games.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Might the Hermit Kingdom topple the might of Lindelöf and Sweden tomorrow? I doubt it.

Is he any good for Sweden? Like he was touted to be one of the brightest talents around during his Benfica time? Or more similar to his Utd performances?

Between those 4 names, you have 2 German Champions, an Italian Champion and someone who is always good for that killer pass. I'll grant you Özil if you have to hate on them, but try as you might, those are probably the best Germany has at the moment on their positions. It's easy to hate on players after they lost a game. But name me a replacement for them that doesn't suck balls compared to them. Go ahead, we'll wait.

Boateng's passes sucked balls today. His clearances were also woeful, I lost count of the number of times he booted the ball out of play. Don't think Rudiger or Sule are better, but they have more hunger and desire than Boateng and Hummels.

Reus and Brandt had more dangerous offensive contributions in a few minutes than Muller and Ozil had in the whole game. Don't see the point of Muller in the NT and Ozil is bad for the balance of the team if he has no competent defensive midfield behind him. His defending before the 0-1 (and in general) was a disgrace.

I always defended Khedira, but that was horrendous today. Don't know who is better since Gundogan and Goretzka also suck balls at defending. Probably Rudy, he is not the best player but his profile is the best fit for someone playing next to Kroos. Staying behind, good in beating the press, working hard and building up play from deep.

I can't believe I am seriously demanding Rudy for the Germany starting XI at a World Cup. At this point, I want to send all our midfielders home and replace them with Schweinsteiger clones from 2013. There have to be some frozen by Doc Muller Wolfarth in a lab somewhere

 

[Adisa]

This killed me.

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[Keeps It tidy]

My god I can not believe how poor Germany looked. That really looked like a pickup basketball game. Every time Germany lost the ball Mexico easily countered. And the more worrying part Low's solutions were first to sub Khedira so they can go from a poor midfield to no midfield and then deciding to finish the match without an LB. Hell based on this match forget Sane Germany were missing the Bender bros at least one of them would have made a foul to break up one of Mexico's counter attacks. Germany's best bet might be to drop Ozil and Khedira and play a three man midfield of Kroos, Goretzka and Gundogan so at least they will have some control.

 

[tentan]

Well done to Mexico, what a performance. Their counter attack play was incredible and fully deserved the victory. Funny thing is, I don't think Germany played that badly, it just wasn't their day.

 

[OutlawGER]

I said before the tournament that this is Germany's weakest side since the 2006 WC. And the performances this year cannot be ignored even if they were friendlies. I thought Kimmich was shocking today. He is great player in the making but (obviously) not on the same level as Lahm in 2014.

Other than Cafu, there was no RB on Lahm's level in this century. There is a reason why Pep Guardiola said, that Lahm is the most intelligent player he ever worked with, even though he worked with the likes of Xavi and Iniesta.

Obviously the retirements of Lahm and Schweinsteiger are a huge loss for Die Mannschaft. Also Müller playing like an amateur for 2 years starts to hurt the NT now aswell. He's now basically the german Rooney. Well, probably much worse.

 

[whatwha]

Is he any good for Sweden? Like he was touted to be one of the brightest talents around during his Benfica time? Or more similar to his Utd performances?

I was mostly joking. I've only watched a few of his Sweden games. But yes, he's pretty good for them. More solid than for United, less of the confidence problems for the "Iceman", so-called. He and his defensive compatriots held off Italy with no problems.

 

[reelworld]

I thought it was baffling how much Kimmich pushed up, when it was clear how Lorzano was told to stay high and punish the space on the counter. Kimmich should have acted by himself and cut his offensive runs to block the passing lanes to Lorzano in case of counter. I know that is not how it is supposed to be, normally the CMs or Muller should cover for him but the CMs are both very bad at covering large spaces (slow, bad positioning) and Muller's defensive game has deteriorated almost as much as his offensive game. When it was obvious that no one would cover for him, Kimmich should have decided to stay behind. He is a defender after all, even if he did score 2 against Real. There were enough people drifting to the right with Muller, Werner, Ozil and later Reus.

Maybe Kimmich is too ambitious in his forward drive because of the freedom he has at Bayern. He is touted to be future captain at Bayern and NT, I want to see him thinking and acting on his own behalf if he sees the tactics are not working, instead of doing the same shit over and over again. That's what the big characters do.

I think a 3-man-midfield is a must at this point, maybe even a 5-man-backline. I suggested a 352 earlier in the thread, don't believe for one second that will happen though.

Sebastian Rudy to the rescue, Lothar called it

I don't know how much is it on Kimmich rather than Low. It's very clear from the first minute that Mexico left wing are dangerous and it seems Low done nothing to adjust. If Low did something and Kimmich was ignoring/not executing it properly, why did Kimmich stayed for all 90 minutes?

 

[Yagami]

Let's goooooo South Koreeeeeaaaaaa! Fighting!

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

I can't believe some comments come from people who really watch football on a regular basis. So "they are done as a national team" because nothing worked in one game?

I still think they will go through, but these groups of players need a good overhaul.

 

[Sagittarius13]

First half by Mexico was brilliant! Though I don't know what the feck were those subs in the second half. He took out both Lozano and Vela, whom might be their most talented and dangerous players, while leaving Chicharito on the pitch (he was being too wasteful) and to top it off he brings 39 years old Rafael fecking Marquez making the team void of pace and forcing them to sit back and pray to keep their minimum advantage.

Still Mexico has a good chance of topping their group if they can beat South Korea and that would be a big change as they could avoid Brazil and have a longer run in the cup. So the team should build around their first half and stop subbing off both Vela and Lozano when clinging only in a one goal advantage. Vela is a really skilled and intelligent player who was brilliant and highly rated in spanish while Lozano has good potential and could go to a big club after this world cup.

I suggest you check our last two or three games against Brazil, final game at the olympics specifically.. I just don't think you should suppose Mexico is weaker after what we saw against Germany.

 

[robbie81]

The weakest link within the national team has always be Löw, last WC it was the Höwedes nonsense, now he can't figure out a midfield. He's just a copycat who saw other topteams play their fullbacks as wingbacks and thought he can do that too, problem is he has no DM like Casemiro or Kante to cover space. I don't think the quality of the team is the problem, but the coaching. 3 men backline would do it imo, but he would have to sacrifice Özil, which wont happen ever. And Draxler offers less than Brandt and Reus obv.

 

[RoyH1]

Germany will be fine if Löw throws loyalty out of the window and sub Khedira, Ozil and Muller. They have the squad and mentality to bounce back from this.

 

[Tillo]

Germany will be fine if Löw throws loyalty out of the window and sub Khedira, Ozil and Muller. They have the squad and mentality to bounce back from this.

Knowing Löw, this is a pretty big IF. Personally, I'm bracing for a very early exit from this WC.

 

[do.ob]

I think this one is on Löw. DIE MANNSCHAFT reminded me of a caricature of Bosz's Dortmund, especially in the first half. I can sort of understand why he fielded the MANNSCHAFT he did, even though one may mention that Mexico's approach should not have been a surprise. But when you see your MANNSCHAFT getting carved open again and again, because there are YUGE spaces behind your midfield and RB it's inexcusable that you don't react quickly.
I know this is hindsight 10/10, but when you don't really create in attack and get carved open time and time again on the counter you have to consolidate first. Tell Khedira and Kroos to drop deeper, maybe sub in Gündogan, calm down the match, try to get some control, even if it's in meaningless areas, and let the Mexicans burn their energy.
Instead DIE MANNSCHAFT just kept running into counter attack after counter attack.

How DIE MANNSCHAFT fare from here depends on Löw's ability to improvise and cut old ties. Reus really has to start imho and if he can't organize a better cover against counter attacks then one of the AMs needs to be dropped for a 3rd CB or CM.
Everyone (including me) kept playing down the friendly performances, but as it turns out (Hummels straight up confirmed this in his post match) serious issues lurked behind the usual displays of disinterest. Makes you wonder how you see (for us fans obviously in hindsight) the same problems over and over and neither really change your approach nor your line up, just so it all can boil over at the tournament and you have to scramble for a solution under the greatest of pressures.
This tournament might be quick fall from grace for Löw.

 

[Foxtrot]

I'm so gutted. Curse of the defending champion strikes again. Can't believe this. Just unbelievable. I've said it before the start of this tournament that I have a very bad feeling for Germany and I think they would under-perform in this World Cup and might finish second in the group or dare I say crash out in the group. I was right.

I am genuinely worried for Die Mannschaft now. I know everyone, particularly our German residents here would say that Germany don't give a shit about friendlies and when come the actual tournament, they would be a beast but yesterday they played a full strength team against fecking Saudi Arabia! A 2-1 result against the lowest ranked team in the World Cup is so disappointing, not to mention that Saudi Arabia even missed an open goal. I also don't get this whole "friendlies don't mean anything to Germany", can they just turn a switch on during the World Cup? Really? Friendlies are still competitive matches after all and you have to question the players' integrity and that just isn't professional. Brazil, France and even England have been great in their friendlies, particularly the first two. Germany just haven't been quite the same after they won the World Cup. After they won the World Cup in 2014, they lost at home to Argentina 2-4, albeit its a friendly. Never mind. Then, they had a poor start in their qualification campaign for Euro 2016, losing to Poland away, drawing to Ireland at home and losing to them away. They were always going to win that group once they "woke up". I wasn't particularly impressed with their Euro 2016 campaign. First big team they faced in Italy, they only won narrowly by penalties and it could have been a loss as well if Zaza didn't make a fool of himself. Next they faced France and they lost 0-2. Ever since Germany qualified for the World Cup, this Germany team isn't the Germany I knew. I've supported and followed Germany for 16 years and for the longest time, this is the first time I see them lacking heart, concentration, cohesion. Something is just missing and I can't seem to point out what it is, there's just no intensity or that German efficiency which they are great for.

Germany's biggest enemy is always herself and they basically failed their way to World Cup success in 2014 after coming so close so many times. There's also usually a 10 year cycle of German dominance in world football before a lull and since their rebuilding process started in 2016, could this be the end of their dominance? I have a really bad feeling about this upcoming World Cup for them and as crazy as this sounds, I'm starting to think Germany could be the big team "casualty" and finish 2nd, face Brazil in the next round and get knocked out in Round of 16, or dare I say, get knocked out in the group stage and finish 3rd behind Sweden and Mexico. Sweden is a giant-killer, they have a history of winning the Group of Death, remember 2002 in a group with England, Argentina and Nigeria and knocking out Italy is as impressive as it gets. Mexico always make it to the last 16.

Here's an even more haunting statistic that is very worrying for the Germans - The curse of the World Cup defending champion. Since 1998, no European team who won the World Cup has ever made it out of the group stage. 7 out of the last 9 have lost a group game and 3 out of the last 4 have not made out of the group.

1998 - France won and finish bottom in 2002
2002 - Brazil won and got knocked out by France in quarter-final in 2006
2006 - Italy won, scored 0 goals and finish bottom of the group (with Paraguay, New Zealand, Slovakia WTF?!) in 2010
2010 - Spain won and finish 3rd in the group, humiliated in their opening match losing 1-5 to Netherlands and 0-3 to Chile in the next match
2014 - Germany won, 2018 - ???

Every World Cup is also bound to have a big team to crash out in the group stage. For the longest time possible. I can't remember a year all the big teams qualified from the group stage.

2014 - Spain, Italy, England
2010 - Italy, France
2006 - All the big teams qualified to last 16, seems like this is the only year
2002 - France, Portugal
1998 - Spain
1994 - Argentina, Italy
1990 - Argentina
1986 - Portugal
1982 - Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia
1978 - France
1974 - Italy
1970 - Czechoslovakia
1966 - France, Spain, Brazil, Italy

So out of the past 13 World Cups, only one year - the 2006 World Cup has all the big teams who qualified to the last 16. I think for this year, the big teams "casualty" could be Argentina, Germany, possibly England but I doubt it since I have them as the dark horse surprise which is funny with the Argies and Germans considering they both contested the last World Cup Final. I hope I'm wrong though. Would be a massive shock and so gutted for Germany. I hope they can be the first team in modern football to retain the World Cup and break this World Cup Champion "curse" but their recent stats are very worrying. Out of form players like Muller, a rusty Neur who hasn't played since Sept prior to the last two friendlies, there's this whole ongoing drama with Ozil/Gundogan and the fans, recently there was a training bust-up between Kimmich and Rudiger. All these are ominous signs and not good signs of a team who will win a World Cup or even go far.

Congrats to Mexico. They deserved the win. Something is just not right with Germany this time. Once they win a major trophy, they lack the motivation and desire to keep going. They remind me of Bayern Munich.

I guess this will be the year of the dark horse. Thanks Germany for ruining my tickets and entire travelling schedule in Russia which I have bought Germany's potential last 16 up till the semi-final match and hotels/flights/trains to the cities of those matches.

Germany is certainly not going to finish first in the group and if they do finish second, and that is a big if, they will definitely get knocked out by Brazil in last 16. Now I am starting to doubt if they can make it out of the group. If any of you want to come to Russia to watch the World Cup or have any friends in Russia who supports Mexico, I'm happy to give away all my tickets to you guys. The last 16 match will be Mexico (Winner of Group F) vs most probably Serbia/Switzerland (Runner-up of Group E) on 3 July in St Petersburg.

Note to mod: Please help me to quote my red text. I can't seem to do it from my mobile. Thanks.

 

[Treble]

I think this one is on Löw. DIE MANNSCHAFT reminded me of a caricature of Bosz's Dortmund, especially in the first half. I can sort of understand why he fielded the MANNSCHAFT he did, even though one may mention that Mexico's approach should not have been a surprise. But when you see your MANNSCHAFT getting carved open again and again, because there are YUGE spaces behind your midfield and RB it's inexcusable that you don't react quickly.
I know this is hindsight 10/10, but when you don't really create in attack and get carved open time and time again on the counter you have to consolidate first. Tell Khedira and Kroos to drop deeper, maybe sub in Gündogan, calm down the match, try to get some control, even if it's in meaningless areas, and let the Mexicans burn their energy.
Instead DIE MANNSCHAFT just kept running into counter attack after counter attack.

How DIE MANNSCHAFT fare from here depends on Löw's ability to improvise and cut old ties. Reus really has to start imho and if he can't organize a better cover against counter attacks then one of the AMs needs to be dropped for a 3rd CB or CM.

What's the point of all those capital letters?

 

[do.ob]

What's the point of all those capital letters?

It underlines the team spirit of DIE MANNSCHAFT.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Interesting post-match comments by Hummels, claiming that 7-8 players are almost entirely offensive minded and that he's brought up the issue several times behind closed doors.
They definitely lack balance at the moment, it's really weird.

That's my issue again, everyone can see the imbalance in the team yet Low commits the same mistake. He's a proactive manager who needs to make a mistake to realize it, he can't see it before hand.

 

[2plus2is4]

Löw is a fraud. The 2014 WC winning Team didn't win because but in spite of him. Happy to see the feel good manager gone after this world cup!

 

[vadimivich]

Said earlier in this thread that Germany's big weakness was the fullbacks - and they are still a huge issue.

Kimmich is maybe the most overrated player in the world, and the left side is just a giant vacuum. That's the area that teams can attack and exploit Germany.

 

[Yagami]

What's the point of all those capital letters?

do.ob, as usual, is trying to wind someone up. This time it's the Germans who don't like being referred to as that he's targeted.

 

[do.ob]

Said earlier in this thread that Germany's big weakness was the fullbacks - and they are still a huge issue.

Kimmich is maybe the most overrated player in the world, and the left side is just a giant vacuum. That's the area that teams can attack and exploit Germany.

You can't really blame a FB for supporting the attack, especially not in Löw's setup. Providing cover for him is other player's (and Löw's) job, as he can't be in two places at once.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Kimmich is maybe the most overrated player in the world, and the left side is just a giant vacuum. That's the area that teams can attack and exploit Germany.

This is such bullshit. He played the way Löw wanted him to, high up as a sort of winger. He can't be in two places at once, can he?

 

[kouroux]

@Don Alfredo was right in the end. Germany usually steps up when it matters, but not this time. It seems they are done as national team.

Way OTT

 

[do.ob]

do.ob, as usual, is trying to wind someone up. This time it's the Germans who don't like being referred to as that he's targeted.

I just enjoy the sight of "DIE MANNSCHAFT". Because it's so ridiculously out of place.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Way OTT

We could be done for this cup though, really. The form of the last handful of matches has been confirmed yesterday, this wasn't a blip or accident. We need a nothing short of miraculous improvement.